Caleb was lost to a dr*g poisoning at the age of 22, and his parents stopped in to not only tell us about their son and his story, but to share with us the unique kind of advocacy that they have directed their pain towards in an effort to help both themselves heal, and others to maybe avoid such tragedy in the future.
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Families for Addiction Recovery "FAR"
PSA Sponsor
Daily Gratitude Sponsor
Alberta Adolescent Recovery Centre - AARC
Chuck/Chris (00:02.864)
Watchers and listeners, supporters of all kinds, welcome to another episode of the Weekend Ramble on the Ashes to Awesome podcast. I'm your host Chuck LaFlandre or Chris Horter, whatever you want to call me. Joining me in Virtual Studio halfway around the world is my lovely co-host Dr. Lisa. How you doing today, Lisa?
Lisa (00:19.908)
I'm doing good. It's been a bit of a week. I'm solo parenting this week, so it's been a doozy. But I'm good, I'm good.
Chuck/Chris (00:28.904)
Well, this is how I know not to take it personally when you are like when you like you leave me on read, you know, like a sociopath and just for like a day or two at a time and it's horrible. And I was like, yeah, she's solo parenting. So I just I have to take that into consideration. Absolutely, absolutely. And we have a couple more guests today joining us from Indiana. We have Scott and Amy Olson.
Scott And Amy (00:36.982)
Okay.
Lisa (00:41.956)
Just trying to survive right now.
Scott And Amy (00:42.92)
Hahaha
Chuck/Chris (00:56.716)
They have, they had a child who passed away as a result of a drug poison, Caleb, the age of 22, almost two years ago now. And they've joined us to talk about their journey, what's going on since, and a really unique nonprofit that it's kind of a nonprofit niche, if I can use a word like that, that I have yet to see, that I have yet to see personally anyway. So I think it's pretty special. Welcome to the show guys. How are you doing today?
Scott And Amy (01:24.514)
Thank you. Thank you for having us.
Chuck/Chris (01:26.87)
Thanks for coming on. Thanks for coming on. I mean, as you're in the world of advocacy now, you've got a couple of years of this, of living this. I shouldn't say of it being behind you, because I don't think it ever will be. I'm sure you've told your story a few times now. It's just right. So I'll kind of let you to that and interrupt where, you know, if we have any questions or whatever, but.
I'm not going to try and guide you through something that you're obviously very well practiced at. So, why don't you just kind of start wherever you feel like starting and we'll go from there.
Scott And Amy (02:05.49)
Okay, so we, you know, we're two parents that we've got three kids. We have, you know, I would say we're involved parents who have worked hard, done, you know, done all the things that we have, you know, I think envisioned as being, you know, involved and active with our kids' lives and raising them and
taking care of their needs, you know, as they grow. you know, with Caleb, he was our first born and a bright kid, you know, smart, funny, witty. You know, we just absolutely loved, you know, his younger years, right, raising him and watching him grow up and develop. you know, he's got two younger sisters, Olivia and McKenna, and they're
We had our children about two years apart. So, you know, it was kind of a boom, boom, boom. And all of sudden we've got three kids and we're busy and, you know, just kind of enjoying being parents. But as we're, you know, as far as kind of moving forward, we get into the early years of adolescence and junior high with Caleb.
We noticed that there's some issues in school. We've got some, maybe some attention issues that pediatrician is looking at possible ADHD going on. And we've got teachers reporting that, he's not staying focused in class and he's struggling. so we noticed the grades kind of taking a hit, seventh grade, eighth grade. And so we hadn't had them evaluated for
attention deficit. you know, we, think at that time decided, you know, we're borderline, let's hold off. Let's not go straight to meds because that was something we thought maybe would have been a little drastic at the time. So we continue to move forward. He's going into freshman year of high school and we noticed that the struggles continue and more feedback from the teacher saying that he
Scott And Amy (04:27.816)
was, you know, had some attention issues, very distracted. And so we revisit that whole ADHD thing with a new pediatrician who was more strongly in favor of kind of starting him on ADHD medication. So we kind of looked at, you know, which one's gonna be a good fit. So he started, you know, he went with, I think Ritalin and then...
on to like Vyvanse that seemed to be the one that was most effective for him you know kind of at that early point and you know I think grades started to improve things were going well but I think you know with that comes the side effects of that medication that he did not care for he I remember complained about some increased anxiety
and some other things in different ways that he didn't really care for, know, not being able to sleep, you know, just disruption in that. And I think it became something where he almost didn't want to take it consistently. And he wouldn't. mean, yeah, we would give it to him and then he would hide it. Yeah. And so that was kind of freshman year and he again kind of backslid and more struggles with school and work.
I think, again, we're just concerned parents like, hey, you're a bright kid. We want you to keep things together and do what you need to do. We're not demanding straight A's. We're not setting expectations to a level that is what we would conceive as unrealistic. But we definitely knew that he could do better than what he was doing. And so we're just trying to keep him accountable.
I think we got into the age of where it's like, hey, you know, how about you get involved in some school activities? You know, let's do something so that you're involved in some type of a social aspect or extracurricular, just to stay busy so you don't have so much idle time. You know, because he was not a sports kid. I mean, he played sports when he was younger, but he just, yeah, that wasn't his thing. And then this wasn't just unique to Kayla. We wanted all of our, you know, both
Scott And Amy (06:50.334)
both all of our kids to be involved in some capacity with other activities, know, you know, and kind of explore their interests, whatever those may be. And with Caleb, it was just, he didn't really expressed interest in anything. So he had interest, but they were not ones that were social, I guess. And so we, I finally just said, you know, like if you're not going to want to do any type of activity or rec activity,
How about you just get a job and start working? And so when he was able to, and we were his taxi service getting to and from work for a while, but he started working and he did okay with that early on. But then it wasn't long after that he kind of met some people or started to experiment with a smoking pot.
And that would have been sophomore year, think. And so that was something that it really, I don't want to say snuck up on us because we knew that that was prevalent around the area and just something with the age that he was at that it may be something that happens. But it still caught us off guard given how we knew Caleb and what we.
Chuck/Chris (08:15.572)
Yeah.
Scott And Amy (08:17.15)
I guess our expectations as parents and how we raised him, that this still happened. And so that became the first, I think, warning sign, a big warning sign. It's like, okay, well, he's doing things that completely counter to how we've raised him. He's looking for going down this road of, you know.
seeking something else to satisfy him that may take him down a darker path. And so we came down, we found out, eventually found some drugs in his bedroom. And we had probably a typical parent reaction of just like losing our minds and throwing down the hammer and I think grounding him and all this.
Chuck/Chris (09:12.85)
Can I interrupt there and just ask what kind of drugs did you find in his bedroom?
Scott And Amy (09:14.11)
Sure. Yeah.
Scott And Amy (09:17.674)
So we found marijuana. At first. At first, yeah. And so like I said, that was kind of where it started. then so we obviously punished and thought, okay, well, we'll move on from this. He knows how we feel. He knows that this is not acceptable in our home. And so we kind of...
Chuck/Chris (09:19.882)
Okay, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.
Scott And Amy (09:45.482)
moved on and then it wasn't long after we found more evidence of the same thing happening. It was more, hey, I'm going out with friends and it was kind of a different friend group and we're going at so-and-so's place and we're going to hang out and you know, just more things came up. Well, and just finding things like how he was getting more the other drugs that he started with, you know, on the dark web.
Yeah, he was very smart with computers and we found evidence that he started ordering Yeah, yeah, so that became a whole nother thing That probably took place around the same time. I think he 16 or 17 he found kind of like a I almost feel like it was a way for him to stand out among peer his peer group was that he being very savvy with technology computers and
Chuck/Chris (10:17.366)
Yeah.
Scott And Amy (10:43.624)
having an interest in, you know, learning about cybersecurity and whatnot. He got into the dark web and was able to order drugs online through the dark web and have them sent to a PO box that he established. And then that became something where, I can.
I can get these from my friends. And a lot of that was like acid and ecstasy and things that was kind of where the next, I think grouping of drugs that he kind of went to. And so that was, you know, another thing that we were just like blown away by, okay, what are we even dealing with here? You know, this is beyond anything that I knew about and...
Chuck/Chris (11:33.388)
kidding.
Scott And Amy (11:38.77)
And so I'm being a dad here. I'm like, okay, let's have this conversation. Let's find out as much as I can, whatever he will tell me. it's like, and say, you know, okay, how can we stop this? So it became, put a big, you know, security on our router to block everything, take away his access points, you know, to this. Again, we're treating like, you know,
all the ways to put up security barriers, but not really treating his motivation behind this. I think we're just looking at ways to prevent the actions rather than maybe understanding where this is all coming from. But those conversations, we had those. And I think, you know, we just didn't get to the root of what that was.
Chuck/Chris (12:17.74)
Yeah.
Scott And Amy (12:35.848)
and maybe he didn't want us to know.
Chuck/Chris (12:36.592)
It's such a complex thing to try and learn it in a forced condensed timeline, all that you need to know, and then try to pass on some of that information to somebody who's not receiving it. I don't think it's possible, right? Like, it's just, you know, I just don't think that it is. I mean, there's so much there. Go ahead, Lisa.
Scott And Amy (12:44.713)
Mm-hmm.
Scott And Amy (12:50.917)
Right. Yeah.
Lisa (12:55.244)
And had you guys dealt with addiction in your lives before?
Scott And Amy (13:01.322)
Both of our fathers are alcoholics. Scott lost his dad to alcoholism. Yeah, I lost my father to alcoholism in 2005. So I kind of saw things from that perspective. And she did as well. And we never made it a secret to our kids that you could have this gene. We talked about it at a very early age. And we always say, skipped a generation because Scott and I...
Chuck/Chris (13:24.844)
Yeah.
Scott And Amy (13:29.65)
have never had issues with substances and it was passed on to Caleb.
Chuck/Chris (13:35.06)
Of course, right. I mean, Lisa, you may disagree or agree with me. Alcohol and drugs, to me, essentially, from a clinical perspective are the same thing, right? They affect your mind. You're filling all the same needs, right? But from a logistic, like, if you don't have experience in your own lives with drug addiction, I can only imagine how terrifying and...
I, you know, my, right. So, yeah, yeah, there's, there'd be so much you'd be trying to figure out at the time. And it's like, and how awful that must look to you. It's typically two types of parents, right? Those that have been around it, you know, and went through all that when they were kids. And then, so are there a little more, I mean, not, it doesn't go good or I don't think it's worse or better either way, because there's all sorts of pros and cons to both, but, it's not so terrifying to them, but for yourselves.
Scott And Amy (14:04.682)
Yeah.
Lisa (14:05.22)
Hmm.
Chuck/Chris (14:31.404)
I'm sorry, you had to go through that, obviously.
Lisa (14:34.372)
And I agree, and we had a similar experience in my family where it was the same thing. We had grandparents who suffered with alcoholism and then parents who did not, and then it hit our generation. But I do agree, biologically, whether it's sex, alcohol, cocaine, it's all affecting the brain in a similar fashion. But I think that
you know, generationally, if we go back and look at grandparents who struggled with alcoholism, and then we look at a 20 year old today who's wrapped up in the world of opiates or meth or there are so many other layers to that life today that I don't think really existed when our grandparents were drinking.
Scott And Amy (15:23.838)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Chuck/Chris (15:28.812)
Not the least of which being just the fact that it's prohibition, that it's illegal. So many different, you know, it's a totally different animal all of a sudden. And I can imagine you guys are by all appearances law abiding, of, you your typical good citizens and then to all of sudden to be thrown into that world, you know, with fear and all that thrown in with it. That's an overwhelming place to be.
Scott And Amy (15:29.214)
Right.
Lisa (15:33.209)
Mm-hmm.
Scott And Amy (15:54.279)
Yeah, we were just terrified, know, and I think with having a child, you know, with, I guess, our peers and who were around and our family, it was something that we were ashamed, you know, and wanted to kind of keep it a secret because
Lisa (15:55.203)
Mm-hmm.
Scott And Amy (16:19.274)
It's such a messy thing to have. there's so much judgment. I mean, we became very reclusive during those four to five years with Caleb, because if we went out and saw somebody we knew and they said, how's Caleb doing? That was my worst fear. I did not want to say how Caleb was doing. So it was just, it was very hard. was, Yeah. We had a small group that we could talk to, but yeah.
Lisa (16:49.804)
And was that because you felt it was your fault or because you felt that people would assume it was your fault or like, where did that come from?
Scott And Amy (16:57.32)
Both, both. mean, yeah, we felt like, and I still, I still have periods where I go through and blame myself and just wonder what if we had done this? What if we had done this? It's just. It's easy to do. It is. I've done the same and yeah.
Chuck/Chris (17:15.317)
Yeah. And I'm sure technically, you know that none of that is true, but to try and to try and live that and not have those questions, I don't think you'd be human. Right. So, right. You know, yeah. Yeah.
Scott And Amy (17:27.176)
Right.
Yeah. But it puts you on kind of on an island, just going through that because it's not like, know, or, you know, I say a good amount of people don't know that other parents might be struggling with the same issue because they're also keeping silent about it. So we're, you know, we're struggling in silence. And I think like she was saying, becoming more reclusive, not wanting to
engage socially in the ways that we were. Also, we're living in fear trying to keep our son or catch our son trying the next thing because we're on high alert. Just trying to always stay one step ahead, which we could never do. The monitoring aspect and the amount of energy, the lack of sleep,
the stress, I guess, cortisol that's being released and how that affected our health during that time. You know, we had no idea until after he passed where we, I guess that went away to some degree as far as like the anxiety and worry that we constantly had through the night. Cause we would wake up two to three times a night.
Chuck/Chris (18:32.428)
100%.
Scott And Amy (18:56.634)
Once he left our house, you know, around the age of 20, we got horrible phone calls about things that had happened, car wrecks and overdoses. He had overdosed probably that we know of eight to nine times before he passed. yes. Yes. Yeah.
Chuck/Chris (19:11.308)
So you're in survival mode for years, essentially, like physically, physiologically, know, semantically, you're in survival mode for years, right? That's trying, yeah.
Lisa (19:19.332)
But so he was at home though and you had described going from the cannabis and then discovering the dark web and buying things like ecstasy or acid and giving it or selling it to friends. And then, cause he was around 16 or 17 at that point, right? And then what happened from there?
Scott And Amy (19:38.644)
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Yeah. So from, from there, you know, that continued to progress and and I know he got into, pain, you know, opiate, pills. so, so that became Xanax and then Xanax as well, kind of later on, in high school, his senior high school, it was early on probably what October, he, they found drug paraphernalia in his locker or backpack.
He ended up being expelled. Again, that was another big step of, my gosh, did this really happen to our child? He just got expelled. Is this reality right now? And so that was, we had meetings and he ended up having to go to an alternative school for kids who've had issues. And that's, he basically did.
It was virtual. And that's how he finished. school and graduated his senior year. know, he had all these friends that he had been to school with growing up all these years and then had that taken from him. know, I say taken, but obviously he had some involvement with that, but that was taken away and he ended up not walking and, you know, at a graduation, it was just a virtual and
you know, just something that we went from hoping to have that pride and seeing our oldest, you know, graduate to us not wanting anybody to know that he graduated from an alternative school. And so, yeah.
Lisa (21:27.726)
Did he recognize that he was struggling with addiction? Or did he kind of downplay it?
Scott And Amy (21:36.27)
I think he always downplayed it. He did. To us. Yeah, he had a lot of a high level of arrogance about that and he was, you know, like I said, a very smart kid and when he was interested in something, he would just be hyper focused and learn as much as he could about it. And he did that with drugs. And he knew he could tell you anything and everything about every drug and in great detail.
And so it was talking to him and having these conversations, was, he would want to almost debate us on whether one thing was harmful or not. And I'm like, you know, well, the consequences are going to be harmful, regardless of whether or not you think this particular drug is harmful to your body, if, you know, the consequences would be to your future. So yeah, it was.
Lisa (22:30.756)
It's almost, know, in psychiatry there's a defense. It's called intellectualization, which is kind of what that sounds like, you know? Like you're sitting there worried about his life and he's turning it into an intellectual debate about proving to you that he knows more about the drug than you do. It's like...
Scott And Amy (22:37.076)
Mm-hmm.
Scott And Amy (22:42.832)
Mm hmm. Yeah. Yes. He did that very, very much though. Yeah. Yeah. But then he ended up going.
Lisa (22:49.506)
Yeah. Yeah. And did he ever, did he ever seek treatment? he ever?
Scott And Amy (22:55.72)
So he ended up going to college. He still went to college and that first semester got involved in a fraternity and we saw that there was some drinking going on and other drug use. Next semester rolled around, he did not do well that semester, next semester rolled around and that's when COVID hit. So he came home, he was three hours north of us, came home and...
It was, that's, that was the beginning of how, of what we saw, how bad it was, I guess. And he ended up overdosing in our house and his sister Olivia found him. that was the first time he had overdosed. yeah. And that's when we got him into treatment. Yeah. Prior to that, he'd totaled a car, in our neighborhood. that was just prior to that. And.
One of his friends said that he had taken 10 to 12 bars of Xanax, which he said he didn't know how anybody could even function on that. But he ended up hitting another vehicle, parked vehicle, and then pushing that into a brick mailbox. And then he fled the scene. Probably should have been arrested, drug tested, but he was able to fake it well enough not to. So he dodged a bullet there, but still had a kind of a hit and run legal.
that he had to deal with later on. But like Amy said, after that overdose, was just like, okay, we need to use this as a moment here to push him to treatment, to go to rehab. And he was still not wanting to go. But fortunately, he had a friend, his best friend that cared enough about him to call us or to reach out to us and say,
I know he just had an overdose, but he's already looking to use again. He's already making plans. Like within 24 hours. Within 24 hours, despite, yeah.
Chuck/Chris (25:02.056)
And that's pretty typical behavior, right? Yeah. So he was obviously, I shouldn't say obviously, I'm assuming that he was using opioids regularly then, at that point was he, even with the benefit of hindsight, was by then, had opioid use disorder by that point and was, yeah, yeah, okay.
Scott And Amy (25:13.34)
At that point. Right. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So he was deep into it. More so than we even realized. at that point, you know, we had tried to educate ourselves. But, you know, with this being such a secretive thing and us not really knowing what all he is doing, there's no way to know. And he was careful at
covering things. We didn't realize obviously how bad or how deep it set in for him. And so, yeah, then he went to treatment and... We had to take him and drop him off outside because it was in the middle of COVID. We could not visit. We had a couple of phone calls with therapists during the time he was there, his 30 days.
Yeah, there wasn't a lot of contact there. Yeah. And so, you know, and he did well. He I don't know how much his heart was in it, but I will say that he did everything he needed to. And we did visit with him right after he got out of inpatient. And it was like seeing our old son back and he had a good outlook. He was in good spirits and
You know, it was at that point, he, they stepped down and treatment. goes to a sober living house, you know, on the same campus as the treatment center. And within what one to two weeks, somebody brings heroin into the sober living house and he overdoses and he's on the floor of the bathroom at the, at, at the sober living house there. And, and we get a call from, you know, the treatment, one of the coordinators and.
said, yeah, he was taken by ambulance to the hospital. And this is kind of what happened. we're like, again, that was just one of those rug pull moments where everything seems to be going great. maybe we'll get this, hopefully get this taken care of, and he can move on. And that's just us being naive, think, but wishful thinking as parents. But obviously, that was a reality check that just knocked his son over.
Scott And Amy (27:43.068)
our butts again. And we're just, you know, I just remember us being having this feeling of hopelessness at that point. We're like, I don't know if this is in the cards. I remember thinking. I know that was kind of early on still. I feel like, you know, with every overdose I kept, I mean, it was like we were grieving his death and he was still with us and just.
Towards the end. I was like, I really don't think he has it in him. I just I Don't know an age wasn't on his side, you know, very impulse and pulse of 21 22 year old I don't know Yeah, so we we can you know, he you know, he he did realize like I've got to get this Figured out I've got to do what I've know at least make an effort here and and you know, so he kept going
He went back to treatment, got through it again, ended up getting an apartment. The COVID era was tough because sober living houses were full. There was an increase in drug use and treatment centers were packed and they had a lot of restrictions going on. So it was just a very tough period to navigate.
Well, and I think that we also thought, you know, OK, we'll put him in his own apartment. He won't have people coming in to a sober living house with drugs. Maybe that will be by himself. No. I mean, Caleb could always find he could always find a person. Yeah. No, we were again. We were very naive to think that. And, know, it it was bad. mean, he ended up going to treatment out in California. Yeah, they they.
Chuck/Chris (29:20.737)
yeah, we are, yeah.
Scott And Amy (29:36.714)
I don't know if you guys ever heard like a patient brokering in the rehab community at all, but it's an unfortunate thing. California happened a couple of times with Gail.
Chuck/Chris (29:42.794)
Yeah. Predatory practices to say the least. It's yeah.
Lisa (29:51.022)
Is it? Patient brokering?
Scott And Amy (29:53.724)
Yeah, so they offer incentives. They incentivize the rehab by basically through an outside party will pay you money to go into rehab. Two to three thousand dollars. They cover it as airfare to get out there and then in two to three thousand dollars if you complete the program. So it's kind of incentive based but it's done through like an outside agent.
Chuck/Chris (29:54.102)
Yeah.
Scott And Amy (30:23.932)
I that however that's done is not getting flagged from a legal standpoint somehow.
Chuck/Chris (30:32.752)
So they take the funding from the government to chip out of a piece to incentivize a person to go. And then what's worse about that, the insurance money, yeah, yeah, yeah, right. So it's a real, yeah, it's predatory and it's terrible, terrible stuff there, Yeah, yeah.
Scott And Amy (30:38.299)
Yeah, the insurance money. Yeah. Yeah.
It is. It is. Yeah. And he saw it. have no money. This is a way for me to get money. Why shouldn't I do this? And so he went out to California and... No, in that point, he was in bad shape. And Caleb had kind of this mentality of you never go into rehab sober. And I don't know if that's a thing. I guess it is. But so every time he said, I'm going into rehab.
Lisa (31:10.244)
Hmm.
Scott And Amy (31:17.066)
It scared me to death because he flew out to LA and he ended up overdosing, I believe on heroin. overdosed the day before he left, got out to, got off the airplane, got a ride to the rehab facility and he had overdosed in the vehicle. They had to pull over on the freeway and do CPR. The driver. And then they took him to UCLA hospital.
he did an overnight there and then went directly into rehab from there. but it was just agonizing because we're, we're getting sparse updates and, we, get a message from, a fellow friend that might know something, coming through one of our daughters, you know, through the, through the social media. And it's just like, we're getting pieces and we don't know if what's going on, you know, with what, did they revive him? Did they?
you know, what's his status? And it's this type of turmoil, the up and down roller coaster that just, like I said, the stress that we're feeling and the anxiety, the worry is.
Lisa (32:30.052)
And the challenge too, right, is that he's 20, 21. It's like he's treated like an adult then. And it's like, you can trace his substance use disorder, his addiction, back to being an adolescent, which tells us that developmentally, his growth was stunted from that age. And yet they're still going, well, according to his birth certificate, this is how old he is. And so it's like by law,
Scott And Amy (32:36.458)
Mm-hmm.
Scott And Amy (32:55.209)
Right.
Lisa (33:00.622)
People would say, you can't tell the parents anything.
Scott And Amy (33:03.764)
Right. Yeah, there was always that barrier of consent. I mean, he would always sign that we could communicate. did typically do that to his credit. You know, but as far as decisions on him staying or going and, you know, we had no control. Yeah, there were several times in different rehabs in Florida and other places that he would just leave and we would know a few days where he was.
Lisa (33:05.86)
Yeah.
Scott And Amy (33:32.692)
Yeah, we filed a missing persons report in Florida. He went to treatment there, got through, had a big relapse. This was an interesting one. This is one, an instance where I realized that we had zero control of anything that he was going to do in the future. Absolutely zero. Because I was on the phone with him, he was on the beach, he had just left.
He was in like an IOP arrangement and they had played with him to stay and be a part of this and work at it. And he called me and said, dad, I'm leaving. And I'm like, please don't leave. Please do not leave. he said, I've got to. I'm like, where are you going to go? He goes, I'm just going to live homeless. I want to.
see what that's like. I have to do this. And I'm like, you're choosing that. That's your top option right now. You're choosing to live homeless because that's just what you feel like you need to do. And I'm like, I don't have an answer to that. I don't know what to do. Get a plane ticket, fly down to Florida and search for him. I thought about that.
Chuck/Chris (34:38.742)
Wow.
Scott And Amy (35:03.37)
But that's when we lost contact and we ended up filing a missing persons report and called probably three or four different police jurisdictions and kind of tracked down his last known location. But then eventually he was down and out in a woods, sleeping on a piece of plywood.
been using like crack and meth and some other things. And fortunately somebody also in that area saw him and he had a phone with him and Caleb, I think couldn't even stand up. No, he was like almost had temporary paralysis on his right side because he had been laying in the same position for three days. Yeah. Yeah. Probably dehydrated and everything else. But he, you know, Caleb made a call and
They ended up another rehab place out in Florida, came and got him. And then that we finally were able to make a connection and talk to him again. We at least knew he was safe in that moment, but it was short term. And then he took another deal out in California. like I said, it was, was, think we've, I just went through and added up the stints and rehab. there was, think over 13, 13 or 14.
Chuck/Chris (36:27.828)
And this entire journey is what, seven years long?
Scott And Amy (36:33.384)
Yeah, starting in high school, I would say six. Probably closer to six. Six, yeah.
Chuck/Chris (36:34.496)
Six.
Chuck/Chris (36:40.628)
Everything, as you're sitting here talking, occurs to me a few minutes ago. I'm just like, this is a lot to happen in such a short period of time. Just, yeah. Right.
Scott And Amy (36:46.748)
Yes. And if you read his story, I mean, as I wrote his story to put on our website, I almost couldn't believe it. Like, unless you're somebody who knows addiction, it almost sounds entirely made up because the things that happened to him were crazy.
Lisa (36:47.842)
Yeah, no.
Chuck/Chris (37:02.324)
It does, yeah.
Chuck/Chris (37:06.988)
Well, and even to me, could, you know, having lived the life for 20 something years, this is the story of somebody who's lived in the life for 20 years. This is not the story of somebody who's right. So this is, it's, it's amazing. And I'll go back to that survival mode. Well, no wonder you guys were in survival mode for all of that time. Right. And it's
Scott And Amy (37:14.888)
Yes, yes.
Chuck/Chris (37:28.328)
I like often to give space to that for parents, right? And Lisa and I have had this conversation many times, but to loved ones in general, what you've gone through is no less real than what your loved one has, in this case, your son, right? And I think it's important that people acknowledge that the shame that you feel is the same shame that I felt when I was in active addiction. know, it's different, obviously all sorts of different nuances there, but...
as far as what it's doing to your body and to your mental health, it's horrible, right? So I think it's important to give space to that.
Scott And Amy (38:02.196)
Right.
Lisa (38:03.564)
And I think that there are certain elements that, again, I've never lived in active addiction, but have certainly watched somebody I know very well live in active addiction. And there's definitely things that I believe he's, my brother, has felt and experienced that I could never even begin to fathom. I do think too that
there's also the fact that as a family member, you have to sit there and watch this and feel like you can do nothing. You can love, you can express love, you can offer help, you can make phone calls, you can send text messages, you can put treatment centers on a silver platter. But at the end of the day, without...
Scott And Amy (38:40.394)
Yeah.
Lisa (38:57.316)
mandated treatment, like with things as they are today, you have to sit and watch this with a clear mind, you know, we get to numb it away. We have to sit there and just watch it, you know, and there's so many similarities in your family's story and mine. And it's just, but somehow listening to you tell it, it's just that reminder of how this is such a family disease.
You know, he's the one putting drugs in his body, yes, but how are you not equally as affected? How are your daughters not equally as affected? And the episode from last week, or I guess that released today, we recorded it last week, that Chris shared with you at the outset and said it was a great episode to watch. The lady that was on with us is,
a mother of somebody who has suffered an addiction and she's a lawyer. And you know, one of the things that she talks about is that we all love to speak about the rights of the person suffering with the addiction. But what about the rights of the family members? You know, what about your right to go to bed at night with, you know, without anxiety and stress and overwhelm and fear, you know, and it's like the way that things are set up today.
Scott And Amy (40:17.834)
you
Lisa (40:23.66)
you don't really have any rights. It's like, you know, people will tell you to set boundaries, don't answer calls or answer calls or everybody's got all these great ideas. But at the end of the day, none of the current ideas for families give you any relief.
Scott And Amy (40:38.6)
Right? No. No. Yeah.
Chuck/Chris (40:40.67)
Even something I've spoken to as well. So even in my case, my mom, right? If I don't, and I've said this many times, if I don't answer the phone for a couple days, my mom goes, right, of course she's going to worry, right? It's been two years, of course she's going to. And that, I think I say it the same way every time, over time that mitigates, but until the day she or I am gone, that is always going to be something.
Lisa (40:40.964)
You
Chuck/Chris (41:10.41)
Right. And I think the differences is one of the different, one of the many differences. So when I got, when I got high, I got to numb out those feelings. And when I got sober, everybody's proud of me because I'm sober, but somewhere my mom's still worried. And then I relapse and I get to numb out all the shitty shame feelings. Cause I've got a whole process already built in for dealing with things I don't want to deal with. And my mom worries. And then I get sober and my mom worries. It's what you guys go through is very, very real. Right. And I.
Scott And Amy (41:10.698)
Mm-hmm.
Chuck/Chris (41:40.787)
part of the mission of the show is to kind of to help people not have to feel like they need to live in shame. Right. So I'm really glad that you guys are on here sharing. We should probably get back to I know we're getting closer to the end of that. Of course you can Lisa.
Scott And Amy (41:48.179)
Yeah.
Lisa (41:54.104)
And can I say one other thing? Because I know where you want to go and we absolutely need to go there. it also stood out to me listening to your story that, you know, when people with addiction go to recovery programs, go to treatment centers, right? One of the things that's talked about is to not be alone, right? That isolation is just a trigger for relapse, right? And the addiction wants you to be alone.
And again, for some reason, hearing you guys talk about it just highlighted that for me, that that addiction was even driving you to be alone. And it's just like, it's this cunning, manipulative, terrible disease that, you know, it spreads its venom, you know, as far as it can go, even to the point that it had you guys isolating.
Scott And Amy (42:40.34)
Yeah.
Scott And Amy (42:44.212)
Yeah. Yeah.
Lisa (42:46.424)
You know, yeah, yeah. But anyway, I think Chris was gonna go on to, yeah, talking about.
Chuck/Chris (42:50.444)
So.
Chuck/Chris (42:54.444)
Well, I do. I mean, we've got to talk about the final days here, I guess, right? If you, you know, I'll let you finish telling your story and then, and then we'll move on to some more positive aspects if that works for you. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Scott And Amy (43:03.786)
Yeah. Sure. So, I mean, those couple years he was in and out of, like Scott said, 13 treatments. Toward the end of that, I would say the last six months before he passed, we really drew some hard lines. We told him, you know, we're getting off this roller coaster. We're going to be here for you. If you want to go into treatment for the right reasons and you really want to get help.
but you can't come home right now. He wasn't at home at the time. He was two hours north of us. and we worked on ourselves. We, you know, this was hard on a marriage, you know, we dealt with things very differently with Caleb. And then we were at, it felt like at each other's throats. Every time something happened with Caleb, we were both on edge and we would just like, yeah, it would get directed.
Chuck/Chris (43:51.348)
yeah.
Scott And Amy (44:03.098)
at each other. And so we really just took our health back, you know, just started being more active and we both got into therapy a little bit to just work on ourselves, get advice for how to handle Caleb. So, you know, before he passed, things weren't on great terms. We would always text him and tell him we loved him.
Chuck/Chris (44:05.42)
Of course it would.
Scott And Amy (44:32.732)
I would always send him little video clips of somebody who's in recovery, just sharing their story. And I would say, Caleb, you can do this too. I'd send him like quotes or songs that made me think of him. But as far as us, you know, talking on the phone, him coming home, we just couldn't do it. But I wanted him to know we still loved him and we were going to be here for him if he wanted to get help. Yeah. And as far as like,
The chronology, I guess, you he did. So in April of 2022, he was arrested. Him and his girlfriend at the time were using, over, got pulled over in a vehicle that was stopped, their vehicle that was stopped, and they found paraphernalia and both arrested. They searched his hotel room, found
more paraphernalia. so he kind of felt the brunt of, I guess, the legal system too in a particular county in Indiana that could be the harshest county as far as drug law enforcement. And so that was something that he was going to have to deal with later on in the year once the court case was heard.
So he got into that and then started getting into an easy money activity. Again, with his knowledge of technology, cybersecurity and different things, he got into bank fraud and started exploring that, ways to scam banks and write fake checks and whatnot. that's another thing that I hate saying this because I don't want to defame my son because I love him and I'm holding on to the good memories because I know
who he was under the addiction, a beautiful kid, a smart kid. But this is the ugly truth about where he was in life. He wanted something easy. He wanted easy money. didn't want to have to be accountable to a job he had to show up to every day. So he was looking for ways to do that and using his intelligence in the wrong ways. So he...
Scott And Amy (46:57.77)
made a connection, made connections online with people that were doing this. And he started, you know, scamming and whatnot. And pretty sure he scammed us out of some money with some identity theft. And this was all kind of going towards the latter part of summer of 2022. And that eventually led to him having another overdose.
not the scamming part, but he was still continuing the drug use and had another overdose. Ended up, his girlfriend, think, narcannium twice, came out of that and then ended up getting arrested at a pharmacy using a fake identity and got put in jail at that point. And ended up calling us to, you know,
helped bail him out. And so we did not, did not bail him out. like I said, we had, we hadn't been talking to him, due to the boundaries we had said, and, some of the things that we were made aware of that he was continuing, continuing to do. so we were at a point where, you know, we're not going to bail you out. You probably have deserved whatever has happened. you know, so, it was.
later kind of agreed upon with us and him that, hey, we'll help you get out if you go straight to rehab after you are out of jail. And so we helped facilitate that. went and picked him up, got him out of jail, and he was then, then drove him down to the rehab center, the very initial one that he had went to.
very, I guess is in 2020. And so he was there for probably a week and had a disagreement with one of the staff members there and said, you got to go. Fortunately for him, they agreed to just do a transfer and sent him up to Indianapolis at a recovery center there. And he ended up doing very well at that.
Scott And Amy (49:24.2)
recovery center and this would have been in October of 2022. We had conversations with him, you know, obviously hadn't talked to him for a while. So we were kind of just, I guess, catching up a little bit and he was in a good state of mind. And it's like we started talking to him and it felt like old times a little bit, you cause we'd had some distance up until that point. And so it was like, you know, this is
This is nice. You we're talking to our son and he's, he's sounds good, you know, and, we, that was actually, one of those conversations we had, we're, on, you know, took a little vacation for our 25th anniversary and we, reception was bad at that place, but he was able to leave a voicemail, and told us he, he loved us and we've never had a voicemail from him. Never had a voicemail and,
We have that now. So we have that to hold on to, we treasure now having that, just hearing his voice in that way. But yeah, so he got out of treatment and went to another sober living and was kicked out of that in a week. The house, I didn't have a good feeling about that particular house. There were some people in there, I think that.
We're probably using when he got there and he, like I said, it was about a week and he was told to leave. And so he went to a homeless shelter after that. And this would have been probably November. 2022. And then he, you know, was in a homeless shelter for a little while. And again, spending his days, he would just go to McDonald's and get on his laptop and do.
Chuck/Chris (51:03.5)
you
Scott And Amy (51:21.066)
Not sure what, but probably more of the fraud thing. And then went up to back up to Indy to live with a friend of his from high school. Stayed with him at his place. And at this point we had distanced ourselves again, just because he wouldn't tell us why he got kicked out of sober living. We're like, okay, we're backing off again. We knew and...
We knew 100 % what had happened, but he wouldn't just be honest with us. And I know he was ashamed. And I know he felt a lot of shame and probably was disappointed in himself more than we were of him, obviously. And he respected the boundaries that we had. And I think he just wanted to just not get into what he was struggling with.
you know, try to figure it out on his own. But at this point, he was actually on probation. So there was a little bit of accountability he had to make once a month, drug tests and some other things. But, you know, he had the pressure and stress of needing living expenses. He still had a vehicle, somehow was able to not have to have that repoed or whatever.
but he felt the pressure of needing to work. I said, Caleb, I said, you've got to find a job and just start working. Show up and work and it'll give you something to do with your time and this and that. he just wouldn't, he would kind of make the early effort and then just not follow through. And he just, for whatever reason, couldn't do that.
I said, you need to show me you're working or you're not gonna be able to come home for the holidays. We had Thanksgiving coming up and obviously Christmas and he just flat out lied and then he just said, no, I'm not doing this. I'm like, well, we can't have you come home for the holidays if you're not doing anything to show us that you're trying to make a change here. And so that was.
Scott And Amy (53:46.492)
incredibly hard. We just wanted to see our son. We wanted to have our family together and couldn't. Yeah and I guess and so he passed on December 15th. We were both at work. I worked for school corporation and so I were what at the time was working at a local high school. I was a secretary and Scott works for our city fire department. He's a fireman.
and we were both working. So I got the call or I got a call from his girlfriend and his girlfriend had never called me and my heart just sank because I knew something bad was happening. I couldn't even answer it. I have severe PTSD for answering the phone just based on everything that we've went through with Caleb and the news we've And then I texted Scott and I said,
Emily just called me, I can't answer. And about three minutes later, Scott called me and I said, I don't want to hear it. And he told me I could hear Scott, started sobbing. And I knew he was gone.
So he had ended up using at his friend's apartment. He was by himself, which Caleb got. I don't want to say smart, smarter, I guess, where he would use with somebody else there who had Narcan. He also had fentanyl test kits that he would use. And for whatever reason, he chose to use alone.
I don't think he didn't want anybody to know he was using. think at that point, his girlfriend was in recovery. She was doing well. His friend and roommates had a very, very strict policy with him about using. They didn't want that in the apartment. And so he didn't have anybody there to use with. So I think he took a chance.
Scott And Amy (56:02.29)
you know, and like, and what he took was pure fentanyl. Yeah, it was, was way in excess of a fatal amount. You know, so they found him the next next morning.
Lisa (56:21.601)
I'm so sorry.
Scott And Amy (56:23.273)
Thank you.
Chuck/Chris (56:23.564)
I'm so sorry. I'm sure you've heard that so many times. What else do you say?
Lisa (56:31.268)
I
Chuck/Chris (56:34.794)
I'd like to move on to something a little more positive and really the thing that...
Lisa (56:48.132)
Yeah. You know, just have to say that I think what's so devastating to me is like, you know, we were chatting before we started recording, right, about how people love to argue about addiction and how to help and what not to do, what to do. And but well, you know, well, people are sitting around arguing. People are dying. You know, and obviously, you know, I don't wish
Chuck/Chris (56:49.856)
these days.
Lisa (57:16.292)
for anybody to suffer with substance use disorder. don't wish for anybody with addiction to die of their addiction. And I don't wish for any family to go through the loss you've been through. But there's this part of me that's like, every politician could feel this firsthand, how differently would they do things? And it's just, you just go, how many people need to die and how long does this need to go on before we do better?
Scott And Amy (57:33.204)
Yeah. Yeah.
Scott And Amy (57:44.99)
Yeah. Yeah.
Lisa (57:46.808)
You know? Yeah.
Chuck/Chris (57:48.972)
hundred and thirty some thousand people last year in the United States right you know that's a hundred and thirty some thousand families right
Scott And Amy (57:53.001)
Insane.
Scott And Amy (57:57.256)
Yeah.
Chuck/Chris (58:01.216)
Yeah.
Lisa (58:01.41)
Yeah, there's nothing else killing people at this rate that's getting so little attention.
Scott And Amy (58:04.776)
No. No.
Chuck/Chris (58:05.428)
No. Plague or war in the history of mankind, plague or war are the only things that have that have done this right. And I think it's
Scott And Amy (58:11.156)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I say I feel like it's wiping out a generation. Yeah.
Chuck/Chris (58:18.89)
Yeah, yeah it is.
Lisa (58:21.122)
And if anything else was killing people at this rate, I think there would be a lot more unity in the fact that it needs to be stopped.
Scott And Amy (58:28.656)
I agree. I think there's a stigma there and I think they put a value, unfortunately, they put a value on those who are struggling and rate them low on the priority list.
Chuck/Chris (58:29.676)
Absolutely.
Chuck/Chris (58:33.309)
without a doubt.
Chuck/Chris (58:45.28)
Yeah, right. For perspective, somebody once told me 747 falls out of the sky every single day in the United States. That's how many people. Right. So if it was, if what happens when one plane, right, they'll they'll they'll recall entire fleets over something that might cause this kind of this kind of, you know, passing. So, yeah.
Scott And Amy (58:56.455)
Yeah.
Scott And Amy (59:04.873)
Mm-hmm.
Lisa (59:11.682)
repeated loss, right? Yeah, yeah. But so, yeah, I'm interested though to hear about this initiative that you guys created in Caleb's honor.
Chuck/Chris (59:14.486)
Yeah, right.
Scott And Amy (59:28.67)
Certainly.
Chuck/Chris (59:28.778)
Yeah, I really want to talk about that because I said it's a niche that I have yet to see be filled. it's kind of I'm excited for that for you guys to share about that and move on to something more positive.
Scott And Amy (59:38.324)
Sure. Yeah. Go ahead. Okay. Yeah. So during Caleb's multiple stents and treatment and then that transition going from inpatient, know, where inpatients got, you know, your structured schedule and, you know, your days are kind of filled with, you know, meetings and therapy appointments and eating times and rec activities and everything.
You know, it's very controlled and, you know, it just insulated almost is a good way to put it, I think. That step down from that environment going into sober living and maybe intensive outpatient, the IOP program where it's like, you're going from this controlled environment to, okay, now you have a great deal more independence.
and you need to get moving, get back on your feet and get a job and start being an adult. And so I think it's almost like to me, I see that as a huge, probably a shock to the system of here I had all my needs met. I didn't have a stress of this and that. And now all of a sudden I feel the stress of the world again.
I need to figure things out. I mean, what is a, for somebody who's in addiction or recently in recovery, some of those triggers could be that stress of life. Yeah, I mean, that from everything I know, that is a huge trigger. what, so many relapses happen once that stress of life hits and
Chuck/Chris (01:01:24.736)
yeah.
Scott And Amy (01:01:37.012)
we're thinking, okay, well, how can we do something to maybe make a difference in a part of that transition and that stress and feeling that stress? So what we're looking to do is basically raise money through our charity to provide scholarship awards to go towards sober living housing. And so that you, instead of...
coming in saying, okay, you have a bed deposit that you need to make $150 or we will not even hold a bed at this sober living house. So you will not be able to be a part of your continuing recovery through outpatient, your therapy, everything that's on campus here at the treatment center because usually your sober living is right where you had treatment. It's all kind of collaborative.
Scott And Amy (01:02:36.732)
If you can't secure a bed, don't have the money to secure the bed, then you're out of luck. So, okay, say you save up and you can pay that bed deposit or you've been able to get that first week or whatever they require. Then it's like, okay, I have the pressure to find a job. I need to start making income and be able to pay my rent and any extra food that I need, all those things.
What we're looking to do is provide those scholarships that can help them out, help them get on their feet. That would be bed deposit and your first week of sober living expenses up to three weeks of sober living expenses. We're going to set it up as tiers based on the one, sober living house and what their requirements are, and two, based on the individual and
how maybe their needs are, what might best help them because we have X amount of dollars raised and we want to be able to help as many as we can in the best possible way that we can. so some of the way that we're gonna navigate this is kind of working with treatment centers, case managers to provide us with candidates to make them aware of what we offer.
as they're getting close to being released. And they would be able to sign a consent form to be able to have communications with us, fill out an application. We can have a conversation and kind of gauge where they're at and then be able to provide an award if they're a good candidate. And like said, we want people that are in a good place as far as, yeah, I'm ready to do this.
I want to keep at it. I want to keep supporting my recovery, you know, and showing us that they are putting in the effort to want, you know, want the scholarship, you know, and then that way we can then reward that and help them, give them some time to find that job and get on the feeds, go to the meetings.
Chuck/Chris (01:05:02.55)
Yeah.
Scott And Amy (01:05:02.738)
And so insurance does not, they cut off as far as once they step down and go into the sober living, the insurance no longer provides any type of payment towards that. So it's on them to pay that bill and your first month could be around five, $600. And that's a lot for someone who may not have anything.
Lisa (01:05:02.974)
It's amazing.
Lisa (01:05:30.306)
And especially because sometimes people go into residential programs and they've been living on the streets. They've been homeless. Some of them don't even have identification anymore. So it's like when they're in the residential program, I know of some where they've got social work support to sort of facilitate trying to help you get some of those things in place. But sometimes it's not the goal of the residential program.
Scott And Amy (01:05:38.824)
Right.
Lisa (01:05:53.218)
And so it's like they're coming out of residential treatment and they've got 30, 60, whatever day is sober, but they still have no ID. And suddenly they have bills to pay. And it's like, well, I don't have a job. I don't have ID, so I can't get a job. And sadly, there's the trigger that comes with the stress of all of that. But also for a lot of people who've been doing things, they go, well, I know a quick way to get some money.
And I do think sometimes people try to tell themselves that they'll go back to that just for the finances so that they can continue to make healthy decisions for themselves. But the reality is, I think that that often lands you right back in that world.
Chuck/Chris (01:06:33.056)
That was me 100%. Right. Yeah. I did that. don't know. Every, literally every time I relapsed after, mum picked me up there, that what the first time was me doing that. Right. Yeah. Yeah.
Lisa (01:06:38.061)
Ahem.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was just looking at, so you guys do have a website.
Scott And Amy (01:06:41.672)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Scott And Amy (01:06:47.678)
Yes, we do.
Lisa (01:06:51.18)
And so I guess if people are interested, they can go there too to read more about it, right?
Scott And Amy (01:06:51.306)
So.
Scott And Amy (01:06:56.84)
Yeah, it's a CBOH, Inc. dot org.
Chuck/Chris (01:07:04.949)
and that'll be on our website as well for anybody that's listening. To make that a little bit easier, how can people donate? I last time we had talked, last time you and I were speaking, we had talked a little bit about that but...
Lisa (01:07:08.312)
Yeah.
Scott And Amy (01:07:14.6)
Right. Yeah, there's some there are links on our website that they can donate from there. Yeah, we also. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So and we'll be holding a fundraiser in November. We're going to do an online silent auction. So it's going to be the first three weeks in November. We'll have that. And yeah, hopefully we've had a lot of donations, a lot of support.
Chuck/Chris (01:07:19.818)
Okay, okay, great, great, okay, yeah.
Lisa (01:07:21.272)
There's a beautiful donate button right at the top. I can see it. Yeah. Yeah.
Chuck/Chris (01:07:25.66)
Of course there is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Chuck/Chris (01:07:41.204)
three weeks in November.
Scott And Amy (01:07:42.026)
for that already. of small businesses and some big businesses have donated for that option. So it's been a great outpouring of support. Yeah, really happy about that.
Chuck/Chris (01:07:51.958)
That's awesome. It really is a unique and you know, we've spoken about this. I've alluded to it already, but it's a niche in advocacy that I have not seen yet, but maybe it is out there, maybe it isn't, but you know, I do pay attention to these things. So it can't be that popular of a thing if nothing else. And I think it's great that you found somewhere to make a difference and to honor Caleb in doing that. the struggle is so real when you're our...
Scott And Amy (01:08:20.042)
Mm-hmm. Right.
Chuck/Chris (01:08:21.408)
when you're first in recovery, right? Like, yeah, I was fortunate to have some supports with family and even with that, when I told you about that ID situation, it almost broke me. Like it's the little things that, you said it so well, Scott, when you said about the triggers, like those little stressors are, they're not little, right? When you're, you know, I think now, you know, I'm two years clean, I'm whatever ID, I could navigate that situation like a pro because I'm a grown ass man.
Scott And Amy (01:08:31.572)
Yeah. Right.
Scott And Amy (01:08:40.094)
Yeah. Right.
Chuck/Chris (01:08:50.122)
And I'm, you know, I'm functioning again and all that. But when you're first in it, it's like, yeah. And your, your attic brain is looking for resentments all the time. So I think it's wonderful. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.
Scott And Amy (01:08:56.052)
Yeah.
Scott And Amy (01:09:00.08)
Yeah, Mm-hmm. Saw a lot of that, yeah.
Lisa (01:09:00.781)
and justifications, right?
It's like, you know, if being sober is too hard, then I guess I just won't be sober.
Chuck/Chris (01:09:07.764)
Yeah, yeah, whatever. Right. Fuck it. You know, right. So excuse the language, but, you know, yeah, yeah. So I think that's absolutely wonderful. We are we've been over an hour or so, which if we're going to go over an hour, these are the episodes that are worth doing that for. think these stories are so important, you guys. I can't thank you enough for for for sharing. These aren't just. I don't even like saying that.
Scott And Amy (01:09:08.616)
Right. Yeah. Yeah.
Lisa (01:09:13.944)
Yeah. Yeah.
Scott And Amy (01:09:32.938)
Yeah.
Chuck/Chris (01:09:39.485)
It's families that are being affected here. It's not just some guy on the street or some, it's entire communities are being pillaged by this epidemic and it's not going anywhere anytime soon. And hopefully by sharing your story, you can help other parents both relate and maybe become a little more aware of what's going on in their children's lives. And there's so much to be gained from doing it. And I don't feel like there's anything to be lost.
Scott And Amy (01:10:02.879)
Yeah.
Scott And Amy (01:10:08.126)
I mean, the important thing is to know that they're not alone. There's many families suffering in silence. And, you know, I'm hoping that this can be, you know, something that parents can view and see and say, yeah, I can relate. I can relate to this in many ways. And I'm not alone, you know, because there's such a stigma. And I think we got to the point where we just didn't
Chuck/Chris (01:10:08.349)
I appreciate it very much.
Yeah, yeah, right.
Absolutely.
Chuck/Chris (01:10:27.316)
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Scott And Amy (01:10:36.714)
care anymore. Well, it wasn't until after Caleb had passed. Yeah, but it was just like, just like, we're just going to tell it all. And I was like, that's going to be the most helpful to people who are struggling or going through this is to just put our story out there and, you know, and maybe they can see and relate, you know, through the, their own words.
Chuck/Chris (01:10:44.64)
Yeah.
Chuck/Chris (01:11:00.83)
kidding. Okay. Well, that said, of course, you know, we've gone over the hour mark. So we'll, we'll move into my favorite part of the show. That is the daily gratitude. So let's start with you, Amy, what are you grateful for today?
Scott And Amy (01:11:16.59)
Well, one thing we didn't cover in this podcast and this is this is my grateful Moment so in the same breath that we found out Caleb was gone. We found out that his girlfriend was pregnant And so we have a granddaughter. It's Caleb's little girl and she's now 14 months old and She looks just like him. She's Amazing. Her name is Tallulah. Yeah, so that is what
Chuck/Chris (01:11:19.282)
okay. okay.
Chuck/Chris (01:11:31.163)
Chuck/Chris (01:11:35.09)
my god.
Scott And Amy (01:11:43.452)
And I know Scott would say the same thing, but we're incredibly grateful that we have a piece of Caleb. Yeah. And we're so fortunate to have her and she's just, we both see him in her and you know, that has been amazing just to see her grow. Cause she's been living with us, Emily and his girlfriend and her live with us. yeah. So it's been. Yeah.
Chuck/Chris (01:11:49.896)
my god, that is...
Chuck/Chris (01:11:59.574)
Of course you do. my god.
Chuck/Chris (01:12:09.396)
that makes my heart very, very happy. I'm so, so happy for you that you get to experience that. Wow.
Lisa (01:12:17.956)
It's like you said, have that piece of Caleb, right? That's amazing. So I've been creeping on the photos. There's great photos. Caleb's a very handsome man. But also I saw the baby and I was like, who's had the baby? And because there are some pictures of Tallulah here. That's amazing.
Scott And Amy (01:12:20.926)
Yeah.
Chuck/Chris (01:12:21.95)
not see that coming. I did not see that coming at all.
Scott And Amy (01:12:28.842)
He gets that from her. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Thank you.
Chuck/Chris (01:12:33.81)
huh.
Chuck/Chris (01:12:40.407)
Beautiful name too, Tallulah. Scott, mean, you could just, you know, pair it Amy's, but what are you grateful for today? No pressure.
Scott And Amy (01:12:47.402)
I'm just grateful that we've been able to establish this charity and kind of move forward. And we've met so many great people and been introduced to so many unique opportunities, and this being a great one in my eyes, just to kind of get the word out. But it's given us a sense of
kind of a direction with where we want to go to continue our healing, but also do something that will make a positive impact in the community that's struggling so much. And so I'm just thankful for that, yeah.
Chuck/Chris (01:13:28.158)
Often the two are together, right? The healing and the helping. So I know for myself, that's definitely the case, right? Excellent. Lisa, what are you grateful for today?
Scott And Amy (01:13:32.104)
Yeah.
Lisa (01:13:41.621)
I've got two, so I'm grateful for Scott and Amy coming and telling the story. As a family as well, I think that, I think a lot of the stigma is rooted in this assumption that people with addictions are bad and that they come from bad places. So I think having lovely people come and share their story of
you know, giving us insight into who Caleb was, letting us see who you are, seeing that Caleb is somebody who suffered from a disease, who came from a wonderful family with loving parents who were doing everything they could. That's what breaks the stigma, that these are not bad people and they do not come from bad families, right? So again, I feel like the more families that stand up and make that clear, the more that the stigma
loses its power. And, and I'm grateful for my family. My dad today, while I came here, went and did crafts with my seven year old and then took her to dance class so I could be here. Yeah, my mom's got strep throat. And so I'm like keeping her and my little one apart because I don't need a little one with strep throat. But so instead it was my
Scott And Amy (01:14:47.306)
Mm-hmm.
Chuck/Chris (01:14:57.826)
Go Ron.
Lisa (01:15:09.922)
My motorcycle driving dad was over doing crafts with my seven year old this morning. Yeah. Yeah.
Scott And Amy (01:15:13.642)
Aww.
Chuck/Chris (01:15:18.337)
That's awesome. That's absolutely awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For myself, I'm going to echo when Elise is here. Thankful for you guys coming on. We used to do or I used to do a weekly memorial episode and it got to be a little much for me just personally. It was, you know, it was a lot to handle. You can see that I'm obviously a very emotional person. And so.
You guys coming on just kind of reminds me of how important it is to, I'm not going to go back and do them weekly, but I'll certainly be bringing to help bring attention, you know, to that side of things. So I'm very grateful for that. I'm also grateful to every single person who continues to, to support our platform, whether you hit the like comment, share button, you know, keep spreading the message, talking about the podcast. Every time you do these things, the, they keep me living my best life. My best life is to continue making a humble living, spreading the message.
And the message is this. If you're an active addiction right now, today could be the day. Today could be the day that you start a lifelong journey. Reach out to a friend, reach out to a family member, call them to deep talks, go to a church, pray. I don't care. Do whatever it is you have to do to get that journey started, because it is so much better than the alternative. And if you have a loved one who's suffering addiction right now, just take the time to listen to this story. If you could just take one more minute out of your day and text that person, let them know they are loved. Use the words.
Lisa (01:16:41.186)
You are love.
Scott And Amy (01:16:41.374)
You are left.
Chuck/Chris (01:16:44.768)
That little glimmer of hope just might be the thing that brings them back.