186 - DANN PRESTON

Chuck (00:01.593)
Hello everybody, watchers, listeners, supporters, the whole whack here. Welcome to another episode of the Ashland's Awesome Podcast. I'm your host Chuck LaFlandre, and with me in virtual studio is quite a special guest, Dan Preston. Now, Dan is the husband of Tammy Preston, who shared her epic story with us in episodes 92 and 92.5. The reason there was two episodes is in what was turned out to be this crazy long conversation.

I didn't find a minute of it that wasn't compelling, and I wasn't about to start hacking stuff out of it since that time.

Tami, Dan, myself, the show in general, we've all built a kind of a relationship with each other and I've been trying to get Dan on for some time. So how you doing today, Dan?

Dann (00:45.451)
I'm doing good. Again, you are way back in time. I'm living the future right now. It's after 11 o'clock. I'm going to stay at home, dad, for the most part. So this is the latest I get to be up. And again, it's nice and quiet here. But I get to stay up. I get to enjoy the quiet, right? And it's not just me. I can have somebody to talk to. Hey, Chuck, how are you doing? Good.

Chuck (00:57.083)
I get to be up, hey?

Chuck (01:04.496)
Yeah, I'm doing really well. I'm doing really well. Actually, as you know, I got this move to Thailand coming up here in a week's time. So this evening, my lovely co-host from the weekend, Dr. Lisa Herr and her whole family had me over for supper tonight, one last goodbye. And their family has a lot of parallels to yours, as a matter of fact, with Lisa's brother having been in it. And I'm not sure how aware you are of that story. I know Tammy's quite aware of Lisa's story too, right?

Dann (01:13.226)
Right here.

Dann (01:32.874)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I can. I'm not in, again, I'm not, I will say, I'm a loyal subscriber, but I'll say loyal listener. Like you get it when I get a chance. I get to peek in on your show. I get to see your show, but I don't know everyone's show. And I don't, I mean, I deal with enough that I sometimes stay away from it because of the...

Chuck (01:34.888)
Um.

Chuck (01:48.089)
Heheheheheheh

Chuck (01:53.985)
Yeah.

Dann (02:01.154)
depth of some of those conversations that I don't, I don't, I, again, I stay away from that on purpose so that I don't set my frame of mind off because again, I'll say, I'm more, I don't want to say I'm fragile. I'm more fragile. And again, if you're not aware and those that want to hear it, I suffered a traumatic brain injury 10, 11 years ago. So luckily,

Chuck (02:04.374)
Yeah.

Chuck (02:12.625)
Fair enough, fair enough.

Chuck (02:26.849)
Okay. Yeah.

Dann (02:29.51)
I'm a stay at home dad now, because if I was working, none of this would be working. And when I say that, so I'm a brain injury survivor, but I make light of stuff so that I don't get weighed down because literally I hurt my feelings. So my ability to just get out of that is why I sometimes avoid watching parts of your show. I've never watched a memorial one. That's not a thing on my plate yet.

Chuck (02:34.787)
Yeah.

Chuck (02:52.41)
Yep.

Dann (03:00.136)
Right. I. Right.

Chuck (03:00.269)
Yeah, fair enough, man, fair enough. Well, so you may or may not know then, we don't do them every week anymore. We don't do them partially because it wasn't sustainable logistically, right, what I was doing, because I was doing six episodes a week, but also because it's not sustainable for me. So I understand 100% not wanting to be in that, like, you know, right, like my mental health, I was just, yeah, right.

Dann (03:20.038)
It's heavy. Yep. Yep, it's heavy. It's too, yeah, it gets to, it's too much thinking what if, what if, what if, what if, what if, what if, and then you don't need the proof that could happen. Right? So that is where I, right? So, and again, luckily I'm distracted with a beautiful two-year-old that I get to spend all of my time with, which is so much better than, I don't know.

Chuck (03:33.233)
Fair enough, eh? Fair enough, man. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Chuck (03:47.487)
You know, oh, that's awesome, man. You can just, I can see it in your face right now. For those of you that are just listening, I know it's gonna, you can't really see it the way I can, but as soon as you start talking about him, you just like, you know, you can see it in your face. So that's awesome, man.

Dann (03:57.97)
Yeah, so Piper is two. She's, again, I don't, she's two years old. She's a toddler and her older brother is 10 and he's here all the time. I say all the time except he goes to school, obviously. So yeah, they keep me busy. They keep me busy and that's just here. I also run a pup a daycare because I have eight grand, we have eight grandchildren.

Chuck (04:04.77)
Are she? Yep.

Chuck (04:10.031)
Yeah.

Chuck (04:14.269)
Yeah, yeah, right.

Chuck (04:23.388)
Oh, okay.

Dann (04:26.01)
and five of them live in town. So I do help out with my other daughters when they're working. Like I have to watch kids sometimes on weekends and evenings and whenever I can help, I'm already here with kids. Why not put a couple more cousins here at school with me?

Chuck (04:27.949)
Oh.

Chuck (04:37.594)
Yeah.

Chuck (04:41.065)
Oh, that's awesome. How rewarding is that? Let's put all that serious shit aside for a second. Well, that's a serious too, but in a better way. How rewarding is that for you, man? That's got to be just cool, right? Yeah.

Dann (04:44.364)
Eh.

Dann (04:50.974)
It is every day rewarding, right? Again, frustrating, no sleep, lack of that stuff. Like I said, I'm up late talking to you. And again, I feel that's okay by me because if she wakes up, worst case is she's gonna sit here and point at you, I don't know. But I think I have backup. Tammy's up sleeping, she works in the morning. So I'm on baby duty, but I mean, she'll help out. She obviously does, or this wouldn't work at all.

Chuck (05:05.777)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

Chuck (05:12.454)
Yeah.

Chuck (05:20.173)
Yeah, no kidding, eh? No kidding, no kidding. I think that's awesome. So, let's talk about why you are a stay-at-home dad to a two-year-old and a 10-year-old, so.

Dann (05:21.742)
True.

Dann (05:31.022)
Okay, my, so again, I go backwards a lot, but anyway, so those eight grandchildren came from four daughters. We have four daughters, Tammy and I. Oldest one is Brittany. That's the one that we talked about. That's the one that is fighting the addiction, mental health issues right now. She's.

She's currently homeless. Like in my town, she lives in the same city as me, but she's a homeless person. Whew.

Chuck (05:56.325)
Yeah.

Chuck (06:02.949)
Yeah.

Dann (06:08.462)
Again, the happy part of like, I'm on baby duty, man. Like that kid, those kids light up my world because otherwise I would sit here not talking to you and just worried about that. Yeah, so again, that's the reason that I am is because my oldest daughter suffers with addiction problems and mental health issues and.

Chuck (06:13.337)
Yeah, yeah.

Chuck (06:22.549)
All the time, eh? All the time, I can only imagine. Yeah.

Dann (06:34.058)
We're trying to help and we've been through most of the waves that you are familiar with. We've been just sometimes that fuck it's not a tide man it's just a tsunami. It's a tsunami after tsunami sometimes it feels like but we're still afloat. We're still here. We still have grandchildren. They're still part of the family. My daughter is still part of the family. I don't exclude her in my thoughts but there's absolutely

Chuck (06:41.006)
Yeah, yeah.

Chuck (06:50.17)
Yeah.

Dann (07:03.922)
zero that I can do for her at this point that I'm not already doing. I'm keeping your kids alive and I'm doing I'm keeping this I'm just waiting for you to flick a switch right.

Chuck (07:15.829)
Yeah, right. And if it was only that easy. And I don't think that you, you're saying that at all. I just, the idea of flick a switch is kind of romantic. You know, when I think about that now, like, wow, would that be nice? You know, right. If that's what it was, but.

Dann (07:21.93)
No, that's what I mean.

Dann (07:27.702)
But what, but it's not, it is. And again, when you say flick a switch, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a virtual switch, it's whatever flicks you the right way. I look, I see you, you are loved that resonates in your brain every day. Because that flicked your switch, dude. You know what I mean? That that's.

Chuck (07:37.327)
Yeah.

Chuck (07:43.049)
Yeah.

Yeah, right, right. And you know what, for me, that message, that's why it's a part of our show, it's why it's the culture of Ash Stossum, it's ingrained because of that message, you are loved. So, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yep.

Dann (07:51.982)
That's right.

Dann (07:56.398)
That's right. But again, that flicked your switch, right? So I'm doing all the things that I can do. And she's briefly in and out of our house, right? It's just hard because the fact that I literally am busting my ass, wearing myself out, like spreading myself thin. I'm only 50, I'm fairly healthy enough to look after this. But I...

Chuck (08:07.649)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Chuck (08:23.117)
Yeah.

Dann (08:25.654)
I'm so busy being a dad to these kids and their grandfather. So that's a fucking whole other slippery slope because I'm gonna spoil the F out of them. But then I also have to deal, I can't just hand them back to the parents and go, okay, I'm sorry, they're full of chocolate. Have a great day, right? It can't play out that way for me. So.

Chuck (08:37.453)
Right? Yeah.

Chuck (08:43.249)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

Dann (08:49.854)
And because of that, I then wear my own guilt of like, well, now you don't have enough dad left to go and dad your oldest, right? But I can't. And then I think of how many people are in the same situation that she's in, that you were in, that so many have experienced because they didn't have a dad or a father figure. And it's like, I volunteered. Brittany, again, I don't even say it out loud, but for the record, is my step-

Chuck (08:58.915)
Yeah.

Dann (09:19.446)
daughter. I met her when she was three. And from that, she was part of the package with that frickin awesome chick that you know, Tammy. And I was like, I take it. That's a cool package. And then I got another beautiful redhead that came with her. Right. It's just, so I got the whole package. So I've been adding this girl for she's 30 years old, man. So for 27 years.

Chuck (09:24.601)
Yep.

Chuck (09:29.409)
Yeah, right. Yeah.

Chuck (09:40.298)
Yeah.

Dann (09:46.69)
But now how I can't add any more to her because I'm using that dadding on these little people. Right?

Chuck (09:47.234)
Yeah.

Chuck (09:55.681)
No kidding, eh? No kidding. I was just speaking with Lisa's dad about, like just literally as he dropped me off after supper here, about the different dynamic when it's a dad involved. Men are typically, and I don't want to sound this like I'm trying to label or be stereotypical or a masochist or any of those things, or sorry, misogynist, but we are fixers by nature.

we want to fix, right? So it's a different, like, and he said, one of the hardest things for him to accept is that there was nothing he could do. Just actually accepting that is really hard for a guy to do. No different, like I'm not saying it's worse or better than a woman's, not at all, they're just two very different journeys is all, right? Two different things that you have to process in an atypical situation, right? Not all men, not all women, but.

Dann (10:40.117)
Yeah.

Dann (10:45.974)
I think so. It's true. Yeah.

Chuck (10:51.745)
you know, there's a pretty big curve towards one or the other that way. But so you can relate to that. Is that, you know, that.

Dann (10:59.03)
I think, again, nobody in this world is married to my wife. My wife, again, she's the fixer. She just knows, and if she isn't the fixer, she certainly knows how to get me to do it. Like I said, like, right? It's a, she, and it's not that, and it's not.

Chuck (11:21.03)
I have no doubt. I have zero doubt after the conversations I've had.

Dann (11:24.63)
But it's not that she makes me do it, and she makes me want to do it. So an example, I just redoing a side porch. And it literally was just because at first it had a broken piece of wood. And it's like, well, I got to take the post. And well, it's all off. Is there anything you want? And I literally, I don't even know, on a napkin scribbled this thing. Wouldn't it look cool if it looked like that? And she said, yeah, do that. Now, I'm not a carpenter. I don't know things.

Chuck (11:30.342)
Yeah.

Dann (11:51.99)
but the confidence that she has in me to be able to pull that off eventually. It's half done now, but that hopefully isn't how it ends. But it's not that she doesn't make me do stuff, she makes me wanna do stuff because she's flapping as hard as the rest of us keep this V flying, baby. And again, I'll let you, so on that, the flapping is a...

Chuck (12:03.395)
Yeah.

Chuck (12:14.997)
Yeah.

Dann (12:22.19)
KFF. So several of us in my family and our family have that as a tattoo. And again, how many times we mentioned fathers in this whole scenario. My dad passed away a year ago, soon, November. Yes.

Chuck (12:42.061)
Oh really, I have that in common. Mine was just this past Saturday, it was a year. So I'm sorry to hear that, yeah.

Dann (12:45.798)
So it was a year, that'll be November, November 6th, actually, two days after their anniversary. But anyway, so when we mentioned these faults, right, again, I just, I don't have the, I don't have that guy to call anymore. First of all, that's a heartbreaker, right? It is sometimes you just go like that. He wasn't going to fix it. He was just going to go, yep, you got us, right? So anyways, my dad had a, my dad started the mantra.

Chuck (12:51.349)
Okay.

Chuck (12:59.949)
Yep. Yeah, it is. Yeah.

Chuck (13:10.947)
Yeah.

Dann (13:14.434)
back in the day when I'll use myself as example. I don't speak for my brother and sister, but when I left home, pretty sure I was just full of piss and vinegar. I got out of control and I left. And then he kind of like, yeah, you kinda sorta do, right? But knowing full well that at some point I'm gonna end up back home to start over again or.

Chuck (13:27.857)
hahahaha

Dann (13:38.31)
or at least there for a weekend to get restarted. And whatever it was, he adapted the term to keep fucking flapping. KFF for the family friendly version. KFF, you keep fucking flapping and that's what our family is, we are the nest. So when they leave, when they're gone, they come back and then they have to start over, they keep fucking flapping. Even me every day, I'm fucking flapping. My wife is flapping. We have to keep flapping otherwise.

Chuck (13:39.16)
Yeah.

Dann (14:08.05)
there you never get to soar. You know what I'm saying? Like if you don't flap and get yourself to that you just don't get to. So keep fucking flapping is what I say and uh back to how it originated. Like my wife I do it because I want to help her. I want to help the whole family. So again back to what you said right? I want to fix it but like I can't do it myself definitely. But I have I have her and she has me and we have each other and we have our

Chuck (14:11.514)
Yeah.

Chuck (14:16.398)
Yeah.

Chuck (14:20.187)
Yep.

Chuck (14:32.257)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dann (14:37.57)
Tribe.

Chuck (14:39.473)
Mm-hmm. No kidding, A. No kidding. And what a tribe it is. I mean, I love Tammy. You know how much time we've spent talking between messages and phone calls and whatever. Her blog posts are, they're amazing. They make me cry. I'm not crying, you're crying, right? Like often, right? Right?

Dann (14:59.342)
I only every time only every time when I refresh my feed and go is there more? But again, I know there's more coming. So I guess to set myself up, she knows well, hey, this is going to show up in your and again, it where it's where it's a little bit easier for me is that the story, the version she's giving is what we've already talked about. Right. We've talked about that when

Chuck (15:07.418)
Yeah, right.

Yeah.

Chuck (15:17.357)
Cough cough

Chuck (15:27.628)
Yeah.

Dann (15:28.086)
We get that chance by ourselves. Right, I get 10 minutes before she goes to bed. That's cool. That's quiet and enough. But we get to talk about those things. And again, the important things, because we're busy doing other important things all day, every day.

Chuck (15:35.838)
hahahaha

Chuck (15:42.485)
Yeah, yeah, right, right. I gotta say, the admiration I have for you right now, Dan, in the way that you speak about your wife, I've been through many of these conversations with many parents, as you know. Too many, too fucking many. And quite often, the kid that is suffering in it,

is a catalyst for the end of the relationship, not a strengthening of it. And when I talk to you or I talk to Tammy, I see the opposite and it's pretty amazing. It's pretty amazing, right?

Dann (16:18.654)
Well, we, again, I'll refer back to, we're, this ain't our first rodeo. I have a brain injury and I learned early on. And again, I was in a brain, I am, I was in a brain injury group and I attended meetings and trying to deal with this new version of me, right? I changed to the way I am, the way I act, the way I react.

Chuck (16:43.662)
Yep.

Dann (16:47.386)
And in that world, they're 90% divorce rate, baby. You know what I'm saying? And my wife, we went to the whole extremes. We went to extremes trying to sort it out and.

Chuck (16:54.189)
Yeah. Yeah, I do, I do.

Dann (17:07.598)
Forgive my, but fucking pharmaceuticals fucked me up more than my brain injury did.

Chuck (17:13.709)
Really, eh? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dann (17:14.934)
For sure. So again, without my wife, I'd still be that pill popping guy. At one point, again, fighting ailments and not knowing the complexities of a brain and a brain injury and the way it's altered. The doctor's simply treating my symptoms. But after a couple of months, my individual symptoms now have me taking 15 pills for breakfast, you know, and another handful at bed.

Chuck (17:42.134)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dann (17:45.218)
But doing that, it also, I think, it messed, anyways, altered me in a way that we thought was not natural. And with my wife's blessing and guidance, we just went to the doctor and said, okay, we're stopping all these pills because it's not getting better, it's getting worse. And well, some of them you can't just stop, you have to wean off and all that. And again, my wife was with me through every step of that, weird shit coming down off of stuff. I don't have to.

Chuck (18:13.072)
Yeah.

Dann (18:13.762)
I think I'm barking up the wrong tree. But anyways, right? So it was, right? But it was a pharmaceutical thing that I, again, so after that, and then I didn't have those. I mean, again, I was just a rageous smashaholic because I didn't know how to deal with how fast my brain and everything was happening. So, but after I got out of the pharmaceutical world, and again, I say it in a-

Chuck (18:18.347)
Well, no, it's all relevant, right? It's all very relevant, actually, yeah.

Dann (18:40.49)
I don't want to say it in a bad way because man, there's a lot of people working hard to, and their pills work hard to help them, right? So I'm not, I don't want to put that, that's why I say like, my mind didn't work for me, for my brain injury, for my specifics. And I find my own ways to deal with stuff and you know, and meditation and whatever that is that keeps my mind centered.

Chuck (18:49.085)
Yeah.

Chuck (18:56.697)
Yep.

Chuck (19:06.085)
That's cool. I spend a lot of time thinking about how the brain works and how...

Chuck (19:17.677)
You can't possibly, so for me, and this isn't about me, but we're having a conversation. So for me, it's ADHD. So I, ADHD isn't funny. It is, it is. There's a holy shit, where's my keys thing that happens 32 times a day, right? There's the fact that I right now have literally, one, two, three, oh, right now I only have four sign-ins open for Chrome, but I have at least 15 or 20 tabs open inside each one.

Dann (19:34.67)
Mm-hmm.

Chuck (19:46.521)
on my computer right now as we're talking, right? And it's funny, right? There's sometimes like YouTube will unpause in one of those tabs somewhere, and it takes me minutes to figure out where the fuck noise is coming from, right? Yeah, you know, and then, you know, people, I forget things, we'll just write it down, okay, because I got a pen laying around here. No, I don't, right? Like you neuro-typicals don't understand, and that I guess is my point. Didn't mean to even make it that way, but to try and explain to somebody,

Dann (19:49.803)
Right.

Dann (19:56.778)
figure out is yet

Chuck (20:14.617)
what it's like when it's not like that for them is a really hard thing to do, right? To try and make somebody understand. So for you to have, and then, do crazy people know they're crazy? You know what I mean? And I don't mean you're crazy, I don't mean that's what you're saying. I mean, but the brain, the brain being what it is, right? Do crazy people know they're crazy? Or to them, is that just fucking normal? So to have an awareness of the way it was, the way it is.

Dann (20:18.466)
True, well, uh...

Dann (20:39.025)
Yeah, right.

Chuck (20:45.137)
the way maybe it should be, the way whatever, I guess, wasn't, is, or the only two things that matter, is, is the only thing that matters if you want to get technical, how is it like, I find that really interesting, the way you're talking about, so matter of factly about it, you know what I mean, right? Am I making sense right now or am I just talking out my ass, right? Yeah, yeah.

Dann (20:50.804)
Yeah.

Dann (20:59.798)
Well, again, 10 years of, uh, yeah, no, I get, I get what you're saying. And so on that, on that light of, uh, my, my altered brain from the old Dan versus the new Dan, it gives me that, um, empathy, knowing full well, writing this out, that my daughter has changed the way her brain works forever. It's not, she's not, she is not, that is irreparable stuff that is happening, that is going in there. And.

Chuck (21:12.878)
Yep.

Chuck (21:22.421)
100 percent.

Dann (21:28.918)
doing stuff and it's not a lot different than banging your head off the pavement. Yep, again, I laughed when I say it, but that's what happened. So that gives me the ability to try to be more empathetic, to understand like, okay, I get that you're not thinking straight. You don't understand that the version you told me five minutes ago is exactly different than the one you're telling me now.

Chuck (21:29.917)
Yep.

Chuck (21:36.175)
Yeah, yeah, you're right though, you're right, right?

Dann (21:59.299)
You put yourself in that scatterbrain phase. So again, literally, that's kind of the only reason it brings up brain damage. Because it definitely can't be a crutch for this guy. Because I got too many. It's relevant in that. That's why.

Chuck (22:05.195)
Yeah.

Chuck (22:15.201)
No, but it's relevant, it's very, very relevant, both for the empathy that you're able to give now that maybe you couldn't have before, but also because it's one more layer of the challenge and the struggle, right? It's one more thing to beat the stigma, because it's not bad enough for people with a brain injury, it's not bad enough for people who have a kid that's in it, it's not bad enough for the kid that is in it, now we're gonna add this fucking layer of the whole challenge to it as well. So.

Dann (22:24.034)
The struggle is real.

Dann (22:28.47)
Yeah.

Chuck (22:42.673)
It's relevant, man, it's absolutely, it's 100% relevant, right? So I'm glad that we're talking about it. There's a couple things I wanna speak to you there, and I guess one leads into the other. So I can tell you something that's happened recently in the Ash's Awesome Worlds, with the help of Dr. Lisa, right? One of my friends' ex-wives, not technically, but realistically, it's been a few years, very much in it, she would be just slightly older than your daughter.

maybe five years older. Lisa being at the hospital and being on call at ER, was able to say, okay, bring her in. You know, as long as these conditions are met, they'll kick her up to psychiatry and then I can admit her and I can help her get into treatment from a safe place and not have to go out and wait for three weeks in a waiting list while you're still, that whole system is fucked up, right? So, and God bless Lisa for that.

She's just this amazing soul who has this sense of empathy and is in a position to do these things. So two times it's supposed to happen, two times she falls off the radar again. You know, and it has to be on the day, at least it's working, on the shift, at least it's working. So it's like, it can't just be a, I'm ready right now. It's like, okay, but you gotta wait till Sunday, right? So her husband and I, and I should say, I was at their wedding party 15 years ago. Her husband and I had been friends for 30 years, right? Like these are very close people to me.

Chuck (24:12.909)
We go to the emergency room. What should have taken a couple hours if she said the right things to the right people, she would have been moved through, she would have been sitting in front of Lisa in no time, Lisa could have done the thing, turned into, I think we were there for 13 hours that day, because she was sabotaging it. Whether she wasn't admitting to herself how dire her situation was, whether she wasn't aware of how dire her situation was, or whether she didn't think she deserved the help.

Dann (24:34.357)
Yep.

Chuck (24:42.297)
which is an angle I hadn't even thought about until afterwards, right? And when Lisa said to me, well, some people just think that they don't deserve it. Like, oh, that's crushing, right? But eventually, what should have been her getting taken into long-term care, we managed to get 48 hours. So, okay, just like overcoming addiction, we're gonna do this one day at a time then, right? So we're gonna be thankful we got her in for 48 hours.

Dann (25:03.249)
to start.

Yeah. Yep.

Chuck (25:10.533)
and we're gonna try and get her another 24, another 48, another 36, whatever the hell we can do. We're just gonna do this one day at a time until we get her into treatment. And that's what we've committed to. So this goes on for five days, and she is sabotaging it the whole time, the whole time, to a point where I had to tell him to call the nursing unit, the psychiatric unit she was on, and say, and I told him, say, if you release her and she dies,

Not only am I gonna sue you, which in Canada is kind of an empty threat, but nobody wants to deal with the hassle, right? Not only am I gonna sue you, but the guy who sat in the emergency room with me for 13 hours has a very popular podcast, and you're gonna be the star. When this goes bad, you're gonna be the star of this podcast. Understand that he's gonna blow your fucking life up. And he had to make these threats two or three days. Finally, we're five days in, I call her. How's it going?

Dann (25:55.134)
All right. Right.

Chuck (26:06.657)
Oh good, this is going on, this is going on, this is going on, I'm like whoa, where'd you come from? Where were you five days ago? You're the person I knew 15 years ago. She was like, okay, this shift of nurses helped me get through some of this long-term disability stuff I'm trying to deal with, so then when the next shift comes on tomorrow, they're the ones I'm gonna talk to about helping me get into treatment and stay here and all these, whoa, whoa. Right, like you didn't even remember how your

Dann (26:17.008)
Right.

Dann (26:31.212)
Right.

Getting an actual.

Chuck (26:36.177)
That got like completely covered in bruises five days ago. You didn't have a fucking clue what was going on around you and now you're almost diabolical in how much you're willing to commit to your own benefit and work the system in a way that's gonna get you to where you need to be. I'm like, and it brought me to tears down, right? Who is this person? And so what you just said about permanently damage, there's no doubt there's permanent damage. We can't do those things to our brain.

Dann (26:39.298)
Right.

Chuck (27:02.949)
But I don't think after seeing that, and it's anecdotal, it's a one-off, but what an amazing transformation after just five days of not using. And it makes me think, which leads me to my next point, mandated treatment. To me, that was a case for mandated, because she was just shy of, like it was us saying, no, you don't have anywhere to go, you don't.

Dann (27:28.79)
Right.

Chuck (27:31.237)
If we leave here and you don't stay here, you're on the street tonight and it's getting cold, so get that India, because that's your fucking reality. You need to say the right things or we're going to leave you in the cold. It's pretty much forcing her to stay, is what it was. But all of a sudden in five days being sober, we had a whole new person on our hands. And it's not like the games were over, it's not like the self-sabotage was over. But I can tell you she's sober right now still. This is all three, four weeks ago.

Dann (27:37.622)
Right.

Chuck (28:00.433)
she's on a waiting list to get into treatment. It looks like she's gonna, you know, who knows what happens between now and then, but we're certainly a hell of a lot more optimistic than we were. And that's because we forced her into treatment. So that's what I wanna talk about is mandated treatment. Now that you've been in this for as long as you have, the way that you have, what are your thoughts on that being, you know, if you could commit your daughter today, would you?

Dann (28:08.617)
Yep.

Dann (28:25.775)
Uh, would, uh, no.

Chuck (28:30.605)
No? Okay. No.

Dann (28:31.954)
No, I would not. No. Again, there's gotta be a switch in the thing. And I, right, it's, I wouldn't, no, it's not different than thinking someone's singing songs out in the street and then, you know, in the 50s, you show up with a white bus and a coat with long jacket sleeves and then they just take you away. Well, that person was just singing a happy song in the sun, right? It's the perspective of that. And...

that person's ability to make the choice to not be crazy. But to make them to, right? Again, I can devil's advocate the whole thing because they're mostly hurting themselves, right? The threat to themselves and their people. But they're not.

Chuck (29:05.817)
So, okay.

Chuck (29:15.821)
Of course, and I appreciate that, right? So, yeah.

Chuck (29:22.799)
Yeah.

Dann (29:28.246)
direct threat. She's not direct threat to me, right? I mean, there's been some shit shows. There's this like why she's not here, but she's more of a harm to herself. And again, the realization, I think she has to realize that. Whether again, something has to flick the switch and is that, could that be? Putting you in a jacket with long sleeves and sit you down until that shakes out of you and.

Chuck (29:33.189)
Yeah.

Chuck (29:37.826)
Yeah.

Dann (29:58.242)
Two days later, you wake up with like, oh, I got a plan and a plan and a plan. I don't know. Is that a thing? What's mandated treatment? Three days, five days, a week?

Chuck (30:05.845)
And that's kind of where my head goes right if we could just get you If you're gonna ask an insane person because technically they are like there's parts of their brains that aren't working cognitive ability is gone Right and they can they'll show that on a brain scan 100% or every time right your brain is not working the way it's supposed to When you are in heavy addiction, it is not throw in an opiate addiction of all fucking things and fentanyl being the worst of them Oh my god, I never did that

I was only crack, only crack. And that decimated my life. I never had to deal with insane physical withdrawals and all that on top of it. So you're asking an insane person to make an insane decision about their own wellbeing. My thought is now, and I gotta tell ya, when I first saw the story here in Alberta Break, that this is something that they were not only considering or doing, but it's likely going to happen, mandated treatment.

I was like, this is gonna be the anti-mandate treatment show. I was like ready to go to war. You know, I was like, nope, no fucking way, is that gonna be, no fucking, no. And I was mad, actively mad about it. Lisa's actually had a lot to do with changing my mind on that. And here's what she said, she talks often about somebody with schizophrenia checks all the boxes. Are they a harm to themselves? Can they be a harm to others? Is it progressive? Is it gonna get worse? Is it, like there's all these boxes that they check.

if somebody has schizophrenia, okay, it's that bad, then yeah, we're gonna commit you. Somebody with addiction checks all of those boxes and we're gonna release you because it's addiction, not schizophrenia. Well, the difference there is stigma in my mind, right? Yeah, right? So if we can get you sober enough to fucking make your own choice and then tell me you don't need treatment, okay, fine. But I wanna hear it from you when you're

Dann (31:47.934)
It is a stigma in that sense. Yeah, I get that. But so, okay, go back to what you said. Would you ask?

Chuck (32:02.181)
fucking straight, like thinking straight. You know what I mean? Yeah, you know, right?

Dann (32:04.366)
Thinking, yeah. I get that, again, I will, again, it's freedom, the choice, the thing, but you go back to what you said, can you, an insane person, and make them sane? Well, there was a sane person-ish, a sane person that had some mental health issues, and then, and made an insane choice. Like, we live in a world where you're well aware, like, we're old enough to know, and just say no to drugs, that's what-

That's what we learned. Um, right. So that in itself is where, uh, no, I know. Anyways, I'm just, I'm saying so right. Conversely to that it was, it was a sane person that made that choice to, I can't, I don't want to say choose it. I want to say that, but that was an option that they took and started down that path, right? It's true. And that, and no.

Chuck (32:38.129)
But don't even get me started on that one Dan. Oh my Just say no

Chuck (32:58.249)
I don't, well they did make a choice in the beginning, right? They did, they did, and there's no doubt about that. It's just like I did and just like everybody did. But I'm gonna play you something, Dan, that Lisa said in an episode here, and I play this probably three times a week. I want you to listen to this, and I have yet to hear anybody make an argument against it because it's Lisa, it just makes sense. So just listen to this here as soon as my thing is done doing the little circle thing here, okay? Okay, let's try it out here. See if it.

Okay, we're gonna have an awkward silence while we wait for it. And you know, awkward silence is kind of my superpower. It's like my party.

Dann (33:34.783)
That's okay, I know the guy that's in editing. It's all good.

Dann (33:43.788)
Oh.

Chuck (33:44.146)
Oh, here we go. You can hear it.

Chuck (34:43.189)
And there it is. Right. And it, I got to tell you that the day she said that in that episode was a pivot for me. Right. Not so much because I, I thought that way. I didn't think in those precise terms, but it gave me a way to verbalize something. And since then it's given many people a way to verbalize. A thing that's really hard to, to explain to some people. And I don't know. Right. You know, you know.

Dann (35:05.942)
Yeah, well, again, there's the ability to verbalize things to, right, to put that out there for. But again, I would agree and disagree at the same time, right? But I'm a muggle, dude. I don't know nothing about nothing.

Chuck (35:27.795)
I love it that you're saying muggle.

Dann (35:31.504)
And I would I write but I'm not because like I have altered my brain and I have the empathy and I write I dabbled in all the stuff that was prescribed to me but that was no it's not a whole lot different than someone in a trench coat offering.

Chuck (35:39.534)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. And I mean, and you've got lived experience that most people don't, right, now. Just because you're not the person using doesn't mean you're not a conscripted soldier in that battle, man. So, right, you've got, what you say matters, right? You've got something to say. And this conversation with somebody without your lived experience, without your ability to empathize, is a very different conversation. And it's one that goes really short quite often because people just get pissed off at me.

Dann (35:54.872)
Yes.

Chuck (36:10.165)
Because I get pretty amped up pretty quick about it too, right? So But but to have just a good two-way convo on it's nice right because it's not about passions as it's just about hey like what about this what about that, you know think about it this way and For me I was Switzerland for the longest time on the show when it came to anything Mandated treatment I was hardcore against but even then I maintain this line of well, I want to hear what you have to say And then for a long time Yeah, yep

Dann (36:12.829)
See you soon.

Dann (36:33.666)
Well, that's kind of where I say I could devil's advocate and play both sides of it. It's because I don't want to close off an option. Because what if that's what works? What if that is what works? I mean, I don't know. I don't know. We don't. And if that's an option that we haven't tried yet, then maybe that's a thing. We start implementing here and there, right?

Chuck (36:55.917)
Well, here's the thing, excuse me. Here's the thing about what we've tried and not tried. The standard argument from people that are anti-managing treatment is, there's peer-reviewed studies say it doesn't work. Okay, peer-reviewed studies say that putting people in a cell and making them to attend treatment doesn't work. We know that doesn't work. What we're talking about is holistic.

It's about addressing the traumas. We're talking about all these things like treatment, not detox, not forced detox, but treatment. Helping people get to a place where they can make good choices and you know, and then, and if you wanna jump back into it then and you've had all that help then whatever, I guess you're gonna, you know, but you know.

Dann (37:25.162)
Yeah. Right.

Dann (37:38.931)
It's yeah, but again, so the choices but even that so you go There still has to be that Fuckin detox part that part it right is that what we mandate? I'm not mandate treatment I'd mandate a detox in the heartbeat go lock and sit and sweat that out or whatever that goes through you gets out does the thing and then you come out a different person with a different perspective in a

Chuck (37:55.867)
Yep.

Chuck (38:01.561)
Yep.

Dann (38:04.454)
not foggy brain and you can have a conversation and you could be excited about getting treatment and going to therapies and doing things because you're not right so it's that first step so when you say mandated treatment no uh you i don't know it's just a detox you're just gonna get it i don't know that's an ultimately that's the first step right so

Chuck (38:12.405)
Right? You know?

Chuck (38:24.511)
Yeah.

It's getting somebody sober enough to make some good choices. Right? Now that said, the reality of addiction is, especially with opiates, yes, you get past the physical thing, but the psychological is still there. And then there's other, you can set your watch by it at certain time intervals. And I don't know what they are off the top of my head, Dan. So I'm not gonna pretend to, but at three weeks, something starts to happen and the cravings jump up a notch.

Dann (38:30.099)
Yeah.

Chuck (38:55.317)
And it's, you know what I mean, and then at a month, and then at, a great example, my cousin, who is the beginning, the first Memorial Monday episode, Jesse, the one mom wrote such a beautiful piece about, she had 11 months clean. 11 months after 20 years of fucking nuts, of just like, and hardcore use, right? Five sons, five sons.

At 11 months clean, she lost the battle to get her kids back.

She had those 11 months, but she hadn't addressed all the things, she hadn't done any of the work inside. She had shown what a beautiful person she is, and she had lived this most amazing 11 months with my mom, because her mom had passed, so Jessie was more of a sister than she was a cousin, and more of a daughter to my mom than she was a niece. And she showed all these things, but she hadn't done the work. So when that happened, when she lost that fight to get her kids back after 11 months of being clean, just an evil, evil mother-in-law is what that was.

Dann (39:40.31)
Mm-hmm.

Chuck (39:59.893)
Um, that's all it took. It's a month later, they found her in a bathroom dead, you know? Um, she didn't have the skills. She didn't, she didn't, you know, to, to deal with such a huge let down. And for her, it was all about going back to the life, you know, cause that comforts there. So, you know, it's tough. It's like, there's, there's these intervals and like five years is, I know is one of them. Five years is a really like, it's a scary place for an addict to be.

Dann (40:27.698)
Okay.

Chuck (40:29.537)
Yeah, it's at five years. Because now your mind starts to minimize some of the shit that happened, and now, you know what I mean, right? Like it's, yeah, yeah. So.

Dann (40:37.418)
Yeah, I get that too. And again, I have a mind that plays tricks on itself on the regular. And so it's, but again, when you say for this and this and three weeks and one month and five years and whatever that is, it is again, I know you're not a counter of days, right? But if you just woke up every day,

Chuck (40:44.821)
Oh yeah, it does, Jesus Christ. I can tell you my biggest relapse is man, I had no idea. Yeah.

Chuck (41:02.273)
Yeah, well, I did just celebrate my one year, so whatever, right? Thank you, thank you, thank you. Yeah, I'll go back, I'm gonna stop counting again now until next year.

Dann (41:05.198)
And I know, so yes, congratulations to you. I'm well aware of that. But that's why I'm aware. Well, that's why I say you're not counting. But those, what, monumental parts have come up. But ultimately, you don't have to count the days. You just have to get up and go, oh, look, another one. Oh, look, another one. Oh, that one's done? Cool, I'm going to bed. Like, you know what I'm saying? It's one, literally one at a time. Because if you're.

Chuck (41:26.049)
Yeah. Yeah, right? Yeah, I do, I do, right? My situation is just kind of unique though, right? So. Ha ha ha.

Dann (41:32.914)
If you're waiting for five years, that's crazy. Cause you could tell me how many days it is until five years. And you could tell me how many months and how, and it's like, nope, that's too, there's too many opportunities and days in between there and shows to do. Countries to visit, apparently going to Thailand.

Chuck (41:41.292)
Yeah.

Chuck (41:45.441)
Yeah, yeah, it is. Yeah, yeah, right. My life is so much different because I'm surrounded in recovery. I've got Ryan, who is my therapist that doesn't charge me a dime, yet I get a couple hours of therapy every week that somebody else, it would cost somebody else a pretty penny to get, I'll tell you that much. I've got Mike Miller at the Otter Center where I'm going in Thailand. I mean, that guy, I learned more about trauma from him in three or four episodes than I have my entire life.

Dann (42:15.222)
That's fine. Yep.

Chuck (42:15.553)
And I'm a curious person, right? So 46 years and I learned more from that guy. So I've got it, I got it lucky, right? I mean, I work really hard, really hard at what I do, but, but I got a little luckier than, you know, some other people do because I've got an end, a support network is just like, fuck, it starts with an amazing family, right? It starts with my amazing family. And then, right, I got you guys, I got like, I got so many people, right? You know, so that helps keep me on track too, but.

Dann (42:24.214)
Yes, you do.

Dann (42:33.134)
Well, this is Support Network.

Dann (42:38.126)
That's right.

Dann (42:43.31)
But ultimately, again, the support system is an integral part of it. But us, your support system, you would still have a support system. But do you know how much easier it is to support someone who has a goal, who has a mission, who has a purpose to do? That makes people want to support you. So.

Chuck (43:06.318)
Yeah.

Dann (43:10.306)
To say that you have the circle, right? The circle is like, well, we were kind of waiting for you to figure out, oh, you're clean, you're sober, and you have this thing, and you have this passion, and you do, right? You got this podcast, and you're gonna help as many other people as you can. That's easy to support, do this zero bad about it. So, right? You, in your own set, you are the one that created your support system, because you could have fucked any one of them off at any one moment.

Chuck (43:11.311)
Yeah, yeah.

Chuck (43:26.989)
Yeah, it is. Yeah. True enough. True enough. Yeah.

Dann (43:40.79)
But you know that those people that are still supporting you, they're supporting you because you're working hard to support you. And that's why they support you. You're welcome.

Chuck (43:41.273)
Thank you.

Chuck (43:47.745)
Yeah, that's true, that's true. Thank you for that, thank you for that Dan. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That actually means quite a bit to me to hear that. Yeah, right, so.

Dann (43:55.894)
Well, again, if you weren't doing what you do, they wouldn't have anything as much to support. I'm going to say anything, but obviously.

Chuck (44:01.345)
Yeah, true enough, true enough. It's funny, the trauma thing, going to deal with that in Thailand. And I wanna talk about that because I have to plug my GoFundMe page and all that. So, I got it, I got it, I got it, right? So, for anybody that's listening and doesn't know already, I mean, I've been quite vocal about it, but.

I recorded with Mike Miller from the Autrotreatment Center. Did you happen to hear that episode? Did you watch that episode, Dan? The first, no? No? Okay, okay. Mike is fucking awesome, right? She is my number one fan too, isn't she? I love her, yeah, so. Mike from the Autrotreatment Center. I had him on, it was his 20th birthday for being clean, the day he came on the show. And I never met him before, never talked to him before.

Dann (44:25.497)
No, I get highlights from your number one fan. So two fan, three, wherever she is on your list.

Hehehehe

Chuck (44:49.185)
It kind of came from that community in Vancouver and they set me up with him. So he came on the show, we're talking about trauma. We're finished recording, I hit stop, and he says, man, you got some shit you need to deal with. Right, and I was like, whoa. And so a professional's picking up on it right away. He would talk about, he would see that psychosomatic thing that happened within me and like, you know, he'd see me kind of welling up at moments and kind of whatever, right, as he talked about it. And it did, like everything he said resonated so much with me. And he said,

I'll offer you a scholarship, right? And it's not cheap. It is not cheap to go to his trauma center because it is holistic. There is all the things, right? It says, if you can get to Thailand, you can absolutely have a one month stay here in a residential treatment program, right? And of course, when you're choosing between rent and groceries, a trip to Thailand is a trip to Mars, right? Like, how am I gonna get there, right? You know? So doesn't...

Dann (45:35.63)
Good, yeah.

Dann (45:42.426)
Yeah, I hear you.

Chuck (45:46.853)
Things blow up here where I'm living. This is a fucking hot mess. And I call mom for help. I'm like, oh God, now I gotta move again. I don't know, the rental market has just gone nuts. I'm sure it's the same thing in your part of the world. You know, cost of living just, it's crazy, eh? What's happening here in Canada right now. Like, it's just nuts, right? So now I gotta find a place to rent. Well, where am I gonna come up with that? Certainly not gonna get my damage laws back from this crazy bitch. I said it loud enough, I hope she hears me.

Dann (45:58.838)
Hmm.

Dann (46:02.974)
Yeah, it is. Yeah, it is indeed.

Chuck (46:15.617)
Sorry, I'm just practicing. Anyway, so I'm talking to mom, I'm like, I'm not sure.

Dann (46:17.762)
I wouldn't be too obsessed. She let you spray paint. You are loved on the wall. That's cool.

Chuck (46:24.945)
This wall back here. Yeah, that's a green screen. That is a green screen. Yeah. I wasn't sure. I was like, really? Okay, okay. I'm glad. I'm glad you're kidding. So anyway, mom says, well, I can help you. But by the time we do that, you're halfway to Thailand. So why don't we talk about that? So off I go to Thailand. And with a one way ticket. So I'm going to the other side of the world. Really no money. I just lost one of my sponsors, eh? Just this month. I'm going to the other side of the world. Really no money. I just lost one of my sponsors, eh? Just this month. I'm going to the other side of the world. Really no money. I just lost one

Dann (46:28.096)
I know, I know, I was kidding with you.

Dann (46:34.255)
Nope.

Chuck (46:52.325)
Bad timing for that. 30% of my funding gone. So the reason I'm talking about this guys is, I do have a GoFundMe going. I'm gonna be on the side of the world with no money, but I'm staying there because the cost of living is so much less. I can continue doing what I'm doing. I can continue doing it full time. I can continue working on the message. And it's a kind of a big deal. So if you're listening and you can help out, there's a link in the show notes. There's a link on the Facebook. There's a link on the website. Everywhere you go. You're gonna see it there. Yeah, and if you can't donate, share please.

Dann (47:17.738)
Yeah, and if you, and yeah, share it. Like, yeah, do that at least, do that. And if you more want some bang for your buck, you can always hit up this merch store. That helps out, that helps out too.

Chuck (47:22.526)
Share it. Yeah.

Chuck (47:26.746)
Yeah, yeah.

Chuck (47:31.821)
Right, right, you know, there you go, eh, there you go. You know what's funny? I got a shopping cart at my supplier full of stuff and the address in Thailand, just like as soon as the money's in my bank, right? So it's got like tank tops and shorts and T-shirts and all that stuff, because that's the stuff I need when I'm there and that I don't have now, right? So yeah, I'm kind of excited, you know, I get to get a bunch of my own swag. I'm just like, yeah, right. You know, yeah, yeah. And customizing is 100% free on that stuff too, guys. So please, you know.

Dann (47:43.942)
Yep, yep, yep.

Dann (47:47.586)
Right.

Dann (47:53.668)
Playing the colors man. It is what it is

Chuck (48:02.061)
Just drop me a line and I will do any combination of anything you want on those on those hoodies t-shirts sweaters hats Shorts, jeez. I even got a piece of lingerie on there with the Ash's Dawson logo on the ass. I do I do Damn try as I might try as I might you know, yeah Yeah. Well, okay second Thursday of the month at the club, you know

Dann (48:13.93)
I don't wear lingerie anymore, so, but I'll pass it on.

Dann (48:24.35)
Oh, I don't wear lingerie any less, I just don't wear it anymore.

Chuck (48:34.994)
Oh, that was well said, man. That was well played, well played. Yeah, yeah. I was waiting for it. She said you were a funny mother of mother effers, so. Yeah, yeah.

Dann (48:35.086)
Alright.

Dann (48:42.834)
Well, it's funny to some, mostly to me.

Chuck (48:47.902)
I figure hey if I'm laughing I've done my work anyway I don't really care if you laugh or not right? Yeah absolutely quite often you know yeah it's awkward moments and bad jokes is kind of my party trick and you know I find myself quite often in trouble but I'm okay with that. Yeah um hey listen Dan all of a sudden I can't even believe it's we're almost at an hour already hey that happened rather quickly.

Dann (48:51.565)
Yeah, that's true.

Dann (49:09.494)
It's yeah, and I won't even mention that it's midnight. I didn't turn into a pumpkin, so I've falsified that. I can actually stay up till midnight. Anyways, we're good.

Chuck (49:13.601)
Yeah. Right. Yeah. My favorite part of the show, of course, is daily gratitudes. Edit, edit, edit. What you got for some daily gratitudes today, Dan?

Dann (49:22.414)
Okay.

Dann (49:27.078)
Ah, daily gratitude to all of us. I'll start out with my family in general. There's a herd of us. The whole tribe contributes in their own ways to make this whole TikTok keep TikToking. Grateful that for second chances, I've heard it before on your show, and it's not just second, it's do-overs even, if you wanna say that, because without that, most of us wouldn't.

Chuck (49:53.358)
Yeah, yeah.

Dann (49:55.99)
be here. You don't get to just yeah, you get to do over. That's a thing we should allow people to try to get it right. Try try again, right? I'm grateful for my wife. She's a different kind of soul, as you're well aware. But we won't go to delve into that. She's she makes the list. And I will, again, for I don't know how many Matt I wasn't counting, but I will add.

Chuck (50:04.762)
Yeah.

Dann (50:25.63)
you and your whole entrepreneurial endeavor that you are on. It is, it's again, I'll say my wife referred to it in, in her last blog, right? The tribe, right? That's part of the tribe. You're part of our tribe because she gets to vent. And again, you don't get to see her engaged in this. You, I get to see her, I get to see how.

She does when she feels after she's talked to you or done an entry in her part Just the outlet for her it is Therapeutical therapeutical making up words that's therapeutic in that aspect. It works wonders for her So I know for a fact that Works the same on if it's working on one. It's working on 10

Dude, if it's working on 10, it's working on 20. And those 20 are all having that same ripple effect. So, you are the rock that jumped in the water, to started the ripple effect. That's where it's going. So yeah, that's where my final gratitude goes to you, Chris, and your shit that you got. Cause you got your shit straightened out and it's going the right way. Keep doing that and send me a postcard from fucking Thailand.

Chuck (51:22.481)
True story.

Chuck (51:43.537)
Thank you, man.

Chuck (51:47.353)
I will so, I will so, you know what? I sold my father's jacket today, he had a leather jacket, very, very expensive one, so that I could get a GoPro so I could video log or vlog. I hate saying vlog, just the word is weird, but anyway. So I could vlog from Thailand and do daily posts about the journey, about the therapy, about all of the things while I'm there, right? So.

Dann (52:11.734)
Yeah, good. Good.

Chuck (52:15.593)
I was nervous about selling that jacket. You know, it was my father's, he died a year ago on Saturday. My sober date and it was just like, uh, it doesn't really fit. I'm not gonna be able to use it in Thailand anyway. This is a good reason to do it. So I sold it and Lisa's helped me out. She's picking that up for me tomorrow, this GoPro cam so I can do that thing. And they'll be better than postcards, man. They'll be like a daily reel out of Thailand, at least one. So I'm committed to that for sure.

Dann (52:29.032)
Surely is.

Chuck (52:44.729)
For sure, right? Yeah, yeah, so, share that journey. Yep.

Dann (52:45.546)
That's cool. Yeah, like I said, I can't say I'll miss your face because like this first time I've seen it live in person, but like I know where you're going. You keep doing what you're doing and again, it's ended with a smile, right? You ride the roller coaster with the rest of us, dude. And some days suck, suck.

Chuck (52:55.72)
That's a face for radio, Mom used to tell me. It's a face for radio, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Chuck (53:08.385)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Dann (53:12.622)
But you just flip back to your tribe, to your support system that you created. You created that support system, dude. You're the one that makes us rally around you. And again, you're not like, you're not, you're not the leader. We're not a cult. We're not a thing, but you spearheading this and it's helping a lot of people. Including you and me. Yeah. No.

Chuck (53:16.993)
Yeah.

Chuck (53:21.794)
Thanks man.

Chuck (53:28.133)
Yeah, I'll start a cult yet. I'll get there. I'll get through the cult thing yet. That's next phase. No, just kidding. Yeah. And listen, for my daily gratitudes, another great guest. I'm really glad that you finally came on, Dan. I'm really glad we got to have a conversation and a conversation, not just a story, but a conversation. These are my favorite episodes. I love having them. I find myself leaning more and more towards them all the time. My mom for stepping the fuck up, man. Like I'm going, you know.

Dann (53:47.006)
Yep. That's good. Chit chat.

Chuck (53:56.357)
to every single person that's donated, quite amazing, right? Quite amazing that some of the people that are, and the people yet to donate, because I know there's more out there still, so. And to the listeners, to the listeners in general, like, share, comment, hit that subscribe button if you're on YouTube or, you know, Spotify, if you're on any one of the socials.

please like, comment, or share. It really does help. Anytime you do any one of these things, you're getting me a little bit closer to living my best life. And that is to continue making a humble living, spreading the message. The message is this. If you are in active addiction right now, today could be the day, today could be the day that you start a lifelong journey. Reach out to a friend, reach out to a family member, call into detox, go to a meeting, do whatever the hell it is you gotta do to get that journey started, because it is so much better than the alternative. And if you are the loved one of somebody who is suffering an addiction, like Dan is here.

You're just taking the time to listen to our story or to our conversation. If you just take one more minute out of your day and text that person, let them know they are loved. Use the words.

Dann (55:01.858)
You are loved.

Chuck (55:04.409)
That little glimmer of hope just might be the thing that brings them back.

I totally forgot to tell you that in advance. I just.