Brianna Elizabeth from The Blaklist joins Dr. Lisa and I for conversation about parenting in recovery. We talk about the long term effects of parenting in addiction, things that can decrease the odds of addiction, and parenting in recovery.
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Chuck LaFLange (00:04.002)
Hello everybody, watchers, listeners, supporters of all kinds. Welcome to another episode of The Weekend Rumble on the Ashes to Awesome podcast. I'm your host Chuck LaFlange, just checking in from Krabi, Thailand, halfway around the world in Calgary, Alberta is my lovely co-host, Dr. Lisa. How you doing today, Lisa?
Lisa (00:18.336)
fantastic. I put my daughter to bed last night at about 730 or 8 o'clock and then I woke up at 8 o'clock this morning. So it was fantastic.
Chuck LaFLange (00:27.546)
Oh, wow. Wow.
Brianna Elizabeth (00:30.763)
Solid 12 hours there.
Lisa (00:31.936)
Right? Like I normally sleep like five or six hours a night. So every now and then I think my body gets fed up with me and does something like this, but feel good. Had a very long, wonderful sleep.
Chuck LaFLange (00:41.974)
I kind of want to, I kind of need to ask, did it secretly take you six hours or did you get her to go to bed though? Is it like, did you actually get six hours of sleep in all of this? Is that what happened? Right? I've been in your house, I know how that goes. Yeah, well let's just be thankful for that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Lisa (00:50.564)
HAHA
Lisa (00:54.652)
Nope, there are times when this happens, right? But when this happens, I usually fall asleep before her, right? Or so I've been told. And so no, like I don't know what she did, but I was asleep. So.
Brianna Elizabeth (01:05.351)
Thanks for watching!
Chuck LaFLange (01:10.615)
And that's what matters, right? Yeah, absolutely. Right. Absolutely. My other my guest, not my other guest, but my our guest this week is Brianna Elizabeth, who is a co-host on the Blacklist podcast with my good friend Jared. And they are in New York, somewhere western New York state, I do believe. How are you doing today, Brianna?
Brianna Elizabeth (01:10.971)
Hehe
Lisa (01:15.542)
You know?
Brianna Elizabeth (01:36.648)
I'm good. You didn't really interrupt much when you called me. So I had nothing going on, so I am grateful to be here.
Chuck LaFLange (01:38.322)
Okay.
Chuck LaFLange (01:42.742)
Well, and it's, yeah, right. Ah, good stuff, good stuff. We're glad that you agreed to come on short notice. Of course, it's something that we've been wanting to do for a while, so I'm glad that it's working out the way that it is. Dr. Lisa, having never heard your story, never, you know, there is no exposure yet. I know the things you're passionate about, and I know a good chunk of your story anyway, but.
for context and to help the listeners along too and to establish some credibility. Why don't you give us kind of the, like I said, pre-recording the synapsis or the reader's digest version of your story so that we can get to talking about the things that we want to talk about. How does that sound?
Brianna Elizabeth (02:24.795)
Well, I've, from a young age I knew I loved drugs and alcohol and, you know, I say that I was always using drugs until it became a problem and then I started abusing them. I became an alcoholic, an opiate addict, you know, and I ended my addiction using fentanyl.
And what got me sober, I've already told Chuck this, I'll say this again, so you know, you can hear Dr. Lisa, I gave my son a band-aid one day, and he held the band-aid up to the light and flicked it, so the band-aid would move down from the top before he opened the wrapper. And I'd already been thinking about getting sober, and that was like my, mmm, you need to change some stuff so your kids can have a better life.
Chuck LaFLange (03:16.078)
So, fur.
Brianna Elizabeth (03:16.903)
That was my wake up call. Three.
Lisa (03:17.028)
How old was he?
Chuck LaFLange (03:20.91)
So for context and for somebody that might be listening and doesn't understand the significance of that moment, it's basically mimicking using a syringe, right? That's what happened there with that Band-Aid package and I think it's important for people to... Or that too, yeah, that too, right? Yeah, yeah. So I mean in either case, right?
Brianna Elizabeth (03:34.167)
or just the bag, you know, when you get a bag of drugs, you flick it.
Brianna Elizabeth (03:40.979)
Yeah, that's what we were doing. You know, none of us were using IV drugs. Yeah. We would, you know, we'd get a bag of Fentanyl and you want it all down in the bottom so you flick it and...
Chuck LaFLange (03:45.886)
Okay, okay, so it was flicking the bag like it was a bag of dope. Yeah, yeah. Okay, no kidding. So definitely a turning point for you. Of course you can.
Lisa (03:57.236)
I ask a few questions.
Brianna Elizabeth (03:59.035)
Absolutely.
Lisa (04:02.468)
That was like the most concise version of what I'm sure is a very long story. Good job. But like, can you, so you said that you were sort of always using, like how old were you really when you started?
Brianna Elizabeth (04:07.767)
Yeah. Thanks.
Brianna Elizabeth (04:19.475)
I was introduced to drugs and alcohol when I was eight, nine years old. They became a daily thing in my life around probably the age 13, you know, with cigarettes and weed and, you know, then drinking slowly came into play. And, you know, I stopped, like I said, I was just using drugs. So, you know, every single time I got, I have three kids, every single pregnancy that I had, I would stop drinking.
stop you know taking pills, stop doing coke, you know, no ecstasy, none of that. Like I had clean pregnancies.
It wasn't until I decided I wasn't having any more kids, which was after my son, that it absolutely consumed my life because I knew I wasn't going to have to stop again. Just kind of a sad way to think about it, but that's how I thought about it.
Lisa (05:11.444)
Yeah, well, and like, because I mean, eight years old is pretty little, right? What was kind of going on in your life that at the age of eight, you were, you know, smoking, smoking weed, whatever.
Brianna Elizabeth (05:27.559)
Um, my mom and my dad had split, and my mom moved elsewhere, and I was living with my dad. It was me and my brother, and he worked two jobs, and I have an older sister, and that's kind of when I was introduced to her, but she was older. So all the cats away, the mice would play, so my sister just did whatever she wanted. You know, and her friends thought it was fun to, you know, pass the blunt to us, or give us shots.
Lisa (05:58.412)
Yeah. And was there a family history of addiction or was it more just that sort of not having great, you know, parental presence kind of knowing what you're up to?
Brianna Elizabeth (05:59.245)
So.
Brianna Elizabeth (06:11.855)
I think it was that. I wasn't really exposed to drugs and alcohol growing up, but at this point, we'd go camping every weekend. And on the weekends, the adults would drink. Now I hear stories my parents used to buy me Barbie toys so they could use them to make makeshift pipes and stuff like that.
I didn't know that at the time. We had a basement too. And I remember there'd be an adult at the top and people at the bottom. And they literally ran a pipe down the stairs. So they could somebody like they were downstairs doing whatever they were doing and whoever was watching the kids could still partake. And they literally were like lighting a bong at the bottom.
Lisa (06:41.08)
Mm-hmm.
Brianna Elizabeth (07:05.059)
and they'd hit it up the stairs and blow it wherever so they could still keep an eye on us. I wasn't really aware of this stuff as a kid, but now my mom does open up and tell me these stories.
Lisa (07:17.752)
like so resourceful. It's like, how can we do what we want to do and still keep an eye on the kids, right? Like, yeah.
Brianna Elizabeth (07:19.459)
Yeah. Hehe
Brianna Elizabeth (07:24.419)
Mm-hmm Now that I'm older I see more like I came in contact with one of my cousins a few years back on my father's side And he was a full-blown opiate addict But I think now like it's more my mom's side that has the addiction But at that point I wasn't exposed to stuff like some kids are
Lisa (07:40.323)
Mm-hmm.
Lisa (07:45.404)
Yeah, but it's interesting, right? Because they're so, like I've actually had parents ask me, like they'll bring their kid in who's in a psychotic state after doing drugs and they'll say, well how did this happen? And why is my kid using? And I always tell people, we don't know, like we don't know. There's not like one thing, you know? But I always find it interesting to ask about that genetic factor. And in most cases, you can't fully weed it apart because
Brianna Elizabeth (08:04.684)
Mm-hmm.
Lisa (08:12.876)
So if you have parents who are using substances, then there is potentially what we would call a family history of substance use or abuse or addiction or whatever. But then also when we have parents who are using substances, then the environment in which you grow up in, genetics aside, is also impacted, right? Whether that's neglect, whether that's modeling, whether that's poor supervision, it's like there's so... And then often a lot of trauma.
to write, but there's so many layers to it. So it is sort of, it's interesting. And like in my...
Chuck LaFLange (08:48.31)
Lisa, what did you mean when you said modeling? What does that mean?
Lisa (08:54.817)
Sorry, say again, Chuck.
Chuck LaFLange (08:56.814)
What do you mean when you said modeling?
Chuck LaFLange (09:01.398)
Modeling? Yep.
Lisa (09:02.02)
So modeling is that, yeah, modeling as in, you know, when you grow up in a household, the way your parents do things models how you should do them. And so if you grow up where your parents model fighting, then you're more likely to then have a partner and fight with them or to accept conflict in a relationship. You know, if you... Yeah, does that make sense?
Brianna Elizabeth (09:15.687)
Mm-hmm.
Chuck LaFLange (09:23.914)
Oh, okay, okay.
Chuck LaFLange (09:29.595)
Okay, that makes sense. I took it as the parents modeling something, but it would be you modeling their behavior is what that means, or am I interpreting that correctly?
Brianna Elizabeth (09:30.795)
Yeah. And there's...
Lisa (09:40.397)
Eee.
Yeah, I mean, I guess I always think of it the other way around, but I don't think it really matters. Like, to me, it's like they model for their child how to live and how to react and how to do things, and then their child will then...
Chuck LaFLange (09:47.754)
No, okay.
Chuck LaFLange (09:52.174)
Okay, gotcha, okay. Yeah, okay, that makes sense to me now. And I'm sorry if I was splitting hairs, or I just, yeah, okay, yeah.
Lisa (09:57.652)
Yeah, right. And so it is.
Brianna Elizabeth (09:58.767)
And there's.
Lisa (10:02.788)
That's okay. That's okay. But it's always interesting, right? Like, if you take, for example, in, in my brother's situation, my mother grew up in a very difficult childhood with alcoholic parents, but then subsequently was raised by her aunt from about the age of I think, 11 or 12 years old, because her home life was so challenging.
Um, and then because she'd grown up with abuse and alcoholic parents, she, I think, I think she, like at my parents' wedding, she drank apple juice. You know, like she was just completely swung the other way. Um, and so for us growing up, like my parents would drink like on occasions, but like even, like, I don't think there's anything wrong for some people if it works for you. If you want to have a glass of wine with a meal once in a time, once in a while, go for it. Like.
My parents didn't do that. Like they didn't drink except for special occasions or if they were out at a Christmas party or that kind of thing. There was no weed, like they did not smoke weed, there was no drugs, but there's definitely a strong family history of addiction. And then, you know, I have a brother who did not grow up with that being modeled in the home and then has faced addiction struggles. Now there's a lot of, again, different factors you could add into that picture.
But it is interesting, you know, to just think about what kind of contributes in people's individual stories, right? And when I hear about an eight-year-old who is smoking weed, it's like, what's going on there? Like how at eight years old are you smoking weed, right?
Chuck LaFLange (11:43.79)
the
Brianna Elizabeth (11:49.147)
And there was like other things that happened before my parents split up. And it's funny that you bring up that modeling thing, because when I first got sober and really dug into, why am I an addict? Why are some of these behaviors normal for me, even though I know they're not normal? We dug into my childhood. We really dug into my childhood and was like, okay, well, you know,
Lisa (12:12.58)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Brianna Elizabeth (12:18.343)
you think it's okay to sit around and do this with your friends because that's what you've seen growing up and even though you know it's not normal or okay to do this you were shown that so it was a lot of breaking those habits and breaking those you know those cycles which is another thing that makes me really grateful for you know my son doing that and that helping me get sober because i did not want you know i knew what i was dealing with
from my childhood. I didn't want to pass that on to them. So it was something huge that I dug into, was how has my childhood? Because it doesn't stem from right here. It stems from three, four, five other things. And it plays a huge factor still in my life today. Understanding my kids and modeling the right way. I think a lot about what I say to them.
and how i say things and how i handle their emotions and you know it's important really important
Lisa (13:20.632)
And I think, you know, with the day hospital program that I work at, which is a more therapy-based program, I will spend hours with clients where we're talking about where they're at today, what symptoms they have today, what we can do about the symptoms today. And then I always do one session, and sometimes it's more, but I always make sure that I preserve one session to...
focus entirely on childhood. And like I will ask them everything from, you know, what their mom did during her pregnancy with them, to what their temperament was like as a child, you know, like, were you an internalizer? Were you a kid who blew up? Did you sort of sulk away and deal with sadness and anger by yourself? Or did you share it with people? I'll ask them to describe.
Tell me what your mom was like. Tell me what your dad was like. Tell me about how your mom and dad treated one another and how they handled conflict. When you did things as a child, how did your parents react to you? Like if you were sad, if you made a mistake, like what were their reactions to those things? And inevitably, I would say, and I don't like to use the words never and always, but almost always.
It's like that one session takes all the other sessions and just goes, wham, and it's like, aha, okay, now we've got it. And when I can then present it back to a patient and say, so what you're telling me or what I'm hearing and tie it together, you can see like light bulbs going off. And it's like, I've had people say to me, like, it all makes sense now.
You know, and they're probably like some of my favorite moments with patients because I think people, no matter your level of insight, people were always trying to understand ourselves. Like, we're like, why am I doing this? Or why am I doing that? Or why do I react this way? And without guidance and education on that particular thing, most of us have no idea. And then when you can work with somebody who can help you.
Lisa (15:42.34)
put it together and suddenly things make sense to you. I just feel like I see people, it's almost like the weight of it gets lifted and things become clear.
Brianna Elizabeth (15:56.683)
I ran away from my therapist for six months the first time we made that breakthrough. We made that breakthrough and I, you know, we connected the dots in a session and I did not see her for six months. I'm like, I don't know if I can do this. So it can be really hard for some people because, you know, it's not like, you know, you're saying that your parents were bad people.
Lisa (16:10.712)
Alright.
Brianna Elizabeth (16:21.319)
not at all. They did what they did, they did what they knew, because it most likely stems from other people, but it's just, for me it was, even though now like sitting at, you know, my age I can see, you know, my parents and their faults and stuff like that, like going back to your childhood and picking that apart can be a lot.
Lisa (16:43.04)
Yeah, I agree. And I think it's our nature to protect our parents, right? It doesn't matter how good or bad our parents are. I think inevitably, children, no matter the age, want to protect their parents. And for that reason, I always preface those sessions with that exact conversation, that I, you know, nobody is good or bad, right? We are all 10 million shades of gray.
and that I do believe everybody does the best they can with what they know. And that includes us and it includes our parents. And, you know, just reassuring people that what we're trying to do is understand how the person in front of me, it's like how you've come to be who you are today. It's not about blaming, you know, our parents. And I'll say to people, I could sit here with your mom and we could do this with your mom.
and understand why your mom did all the things she did. Like all of us do what we do for good reason.
Brianna Elizabeth (17:53.219)
And I think it was it was validation to sorry the fan The fan was blowing in my face and it made my eye burn so I rubbed it and I forgot I had mascara Um, I think it was it was scary to get that validation That it was a all my fault It's not their fault but I You know, I was a
Lisa (17:57.924)
It's all good.
Brianna Elizabeth (18:21.527)
you know, there were outside factors that contributed to it that I did not have control of. And I think that was, you know, I think that's those six months I thought about it, you know, and it was just getting that validation and accepting it and working through it. So.
Lisa (18:33.348)
Wow.
Lisa (18:40.604)
I find that super interesting because I bet you that happens for a lot of people, but I haven't had anybody describe it. And I find that really interesting because I think people often go through long periods of time or situations or whatever, and it becomes normal and comfortable to blame themselves. Right? That's what they're comfortable with. It's like, I'm like, I'm shit. I'm bad. It's all my fault. And even though
Brianna Elizabeth (18:43.502)
Okay
Lisa (19:08.696)
for me as an outsider, I'm like, well, that sounds really terrible. Like that sounds like a terrible place to be. But if that's what you're comfortable doing, because it's what you've been doing, then the minute someone comes in and rocks that boat a little bit and leaves you going, okay, wait a minute, is this not all my fault? I could see how that would bring up like just lots of emotions and even be scary because it's not, it's not familiar anymore.
Brianna Elizabeth (19:37.571)
And that was the other thing too, like I had to fight. You know, I was in my rehab meeting with my counselor. They had to fight with me to go see a therapist and tell me that I have control problems. I like to be in control. I'm well aware of that. That is something that I've learned. You know, and they told me, you are in control of the conversations. You are not gonna be talking about anything that you don't wanna talk about.
So she was asking those leading questions and that stuff came up and I was just like, whoa, no, like not something I want to talk about, but I needed it, you know, and it took a while to realize, especially because like I don't really have a relationship with my father.
Brianna Elizabeth (20:21.083)
I do forgive him and he is where he is. And I would not have gotten to that point if I didn't work through my childhood and realize that those were also learned behaviors for him. You know, and that's what it took for me to forgive him and just realize that it's not going to be any different.
Lisa (20:40.036)
Yes, no doubt.
Brianna Elizabeth (20:50.513)
You know.
Lisa (20:52.54)
And you know, when just with even the little that you've shared with us, it's like, if you, anyone can imagine this, like if you're a little kid and you don't have a lot of parental supervision, a kid may not recognize that in the moment, but that's scary to a child, right? Children want certainty, they want security, and they want predictability. And so when you don't have a lot of parental supervision, a kid doesn't have those things.
So they try to compensate by being in control, as much as a child can be. But so it's not really a surprise that then you grow up to be somebody who wants to be in control. Because as a kid, that was probably what you did to make yourself feel safe in the world.
Brianna Elizabeth (21:41.687)
Do you want to hear another whammy? I only lived with my father for a couple months after the split up. Then I moved in with my mom and did not see my father again until I was 14.
Lisa (21:43.395)
Yeah.
Lisa (21:54.5)
Wow. Yeah.
Brianna Elizabeth (21:56.619)
So that was just such a short period, but like you said, it had such an impact on who I am today, even though it was just a couple months.
Lisa (22:09.324)
Yeah.
Brianna Elizabeth (22:09.967)
I'm trying to find something to wipe my tears with. And I can't find anything.
Lisa (22:16.236)
feel bad because I feel like we're not really responding like I'm like is it a fan blowing in your face are you emotional because our video okay
Brianna Elizabeth (22:22.335)
No, it was a minute ago. It was the fan.
Chuck LaFLange (22:26.064)
If you wipe them up, Brianna, if you wipe them up, it's sweat. That's how that works, right? Yeah. Yes. You see, I'm not crying. You're crying, right? Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. So.
Brianna Elizabeth (22:31.919)
Oh, oh, okay, so I'll just go like this. Okay, I'm sweating. I'm just sweating, guys. Hehehehe.
Lisa (22:34.336)
Ugh.
Brianna Elizabeth (22:44.783)
But yeah, it was, you know, like my dad is raising my sisters, did raise my sisters, is there for their kids. And I can't sit here and live with that anger that I didn't get that.
It's not gonna change it.
Chuck LaFLange (23:03.95)
you're allowed to feel it though, you're allowed to feel that 100%, right? And to have that validated too, I think Brianna is important, right? But you know, and I hope that you do get that, if not from yourself, from your partner, or from whoever else, but you need to validate that anger because you're allowed to feel that, right?
Lisa (23:04.964)
That's just it, right? You know, the only thing.
Totally. Yeah.
Brianna Elizabeth (23:25.903)
And I had an amazing stepfather. You know, the man that my mom ended up marrying was amazing. You know, old school Italian taught us a lot. And I, here's, I try to have a relationship with him, but because his relationship with my mom ended so badly, he does not want a relationship with me. So there's another hurt.
Chuck LaFLange (23:30.062)
And there's the flip side, right? You know, yeah. And that's awesome, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Lisa (23:53.696)
And do you have siblings, like other siblings that are same mom and dad?
Brianna Elizabeth (23:57.848)
Yes, my brother.
Lisa (23:59.744)
Okay, but not your sisters.
Brianna Elizabeth (24:01.559)
Yeah, not my sisters. It's just dad, different mom.
Lisa (24:05.508)
Gotcha, gotcha. Yeah, I mean it is.
Brianna Elizabeth (24:09.547)
and my brother grew up in the same environment and this guy has never smoked cigarettes he's a casual drinker you know like he'll pair his drinks with his food you know like he'll drink a nice IPA with his dinner or he'll make drinks at home so you know that's something else that I try to help him with and he understands and it's just it's
weird you know looking at that dynamic that we both grew up in the same household same environment and two totally different lives
Lisa (24:47.656)
Yeah. But you know, again, you grow up, if you, if you ask, put two people in a room and do something to them and then take them into separate rooms and ask them to tell you what just happened, the stories will never be the same. You know what I mean? And so it's like our perspective on something is always unique. And cause I agree, like, I feel like I see that a lot. I, I live that too is like, you know, you grow up in the same house with the same parents.
Brianna Elizabeth (25:01.324)
Oh absolutely.
Lisa (25:17.816)
But everybody individually still has a lot of unique experiences, and those experiences create different lenses through which we experience everything else in our life. And so people definitely have unique reactions to the same situation.
Brianna Elizabeth (25:37.795)
And that's another thing I learned, you know, like I've I thought it was just you know trauma that I went through and stuff like that I've always been an emotional person I've always been expressive with my emotions and Explosive with my emotions since I was a little kid You know and that's been something that I Worked long and hard to help
help me process that internally instead of externally on everybody else around me. You know, taking accountability for how I react because I don't have to pass that on to my kids.
Lisa (26:16.14)
And like what you're describing is temperament, right? And like we're born with our temperament. We're not born with our personalities. Our personalities evolve as a function of modeling and experiences, but we're born with temperament and different temperaments are going to be predisposed to the evolution of different personality traits.
based on experiences. And so temperament's like a really important thing to understand about a person because it says a lot about how they can evolve, right? But I have a little girl who's similar, right? I mean, she came out of the womb screaming and she's been screaming ever since. Like, she's a, it's true, isn't it? Like, she's bold and she's feisty and...
Chuck LaFLange (27:07.762)
It really is. Yeah, I mean, I can't speak to the womb thing, right? But yeah, yeah. Right? Yeah. It's different.
Lisa (27:13.809)
Yeah, yeah.
Brianna Elizabeth (27:14.129)
The only experience I've had with your with your daughter Dr. Lisa is that picture with her and Chuck on Messenger. Yup.
Lisa (27:20.6)
Oh, yeah. It says a lot, right? But again, she has that temperament. And if you have a psychologically minded parent, and you know, you don't need to be a therapist or a psychiatrist, you just need to be psychologically minded. But when somebody has strong emotions, a huge important thing raising those people is validating their feelings because
Chuck LaFLange (27:24.9)
Yeah. Yep.
Lisa (27:47.652)
People who are outward with their emotions, if they don't feel heard, they'll turn the volume up for you. They're like, no, I'm upset and you don't get it, so let me get more upset. And, you know, so it's really important. And the problem is, is that particularly, I think you see this even more so generationally as you go back. Oh, we have a little human. Speaking of little humans, right?
Brianna Elizabeth (27:59.749)
Yep.
Brianna Elizabeth (28:17.004)
Yeah. He just, he just found his hoverboard. I found the charger. I found the charger last week. Mind you, it's been missing in my house for almost two years. So he went and grabbed his hoverboard and he wants to ride it in the house, but he can't because I have the ethernet cable running through the living room. So he's just being curious right now.
Lisa (28:19.846)
Aww.
Lisa (28:25.672)
Yeah? Well, hey!
Lisa (28:36.421)
Oh, fair enough.
A hoverboard, does that actually hover? Like that sounds terrifying to me.
Brianna Elizabeth (28:43.443)
no how it's i can even write it no all that but these bring me your harbor board i was i will show you that would be cool if they did do you know they'd the
Chuck LaFLange (28:44.994)
Ah. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. Please stop, Jesus Christ, please stop. Ha ha ha. No, it doesn't actually hover. It doesn't actually hover. Right? I think they're, they're banned now, aren't they? Aren't they banned now, hoverboards, I think? Right? They were short-lived because of the batteries in them.
Lisa (28:49.42)
What? I'm serious. What is off report?
Lisa (28:57.66)
Well, I don't know. What does it do?
Brianna Elizabeth (29:04.411)
hoverboards? I better not send my kid outside in it then.
Chuck LaFLange (29:07.622)
They're the ones with the two wheels on the sides, on the left and right sides that you stand on, and it uses a gyroscopic to, you'll see here right now. Like that, that's a hoverboard. You've never seen a hoverboard? Yeah, so you just stand on it and then, oh okay, I was gonna say, yeah, they were huge, 2020, something like that, 2018, yeah, no, not me, not a chance, nope, nope.
Brianna Elizabeth (29:18.491)
So you put your feet on here, and then it's got the wheels.
Lisa (29:18.768)
Oh!
Brianna Elizabeth (29:23.887)
and then you control it and like turn and stuff like that with your feet.
Lisa (29:24.745)
I have seen it.
Lisa (29:29.768)
I would fall in my face so fast.
Brianna Elizabeth (29:32.266)
I can't even stand on it.
Chuck LaFLange (29:37.258)
Yep, not gonna happen. Yep. Well, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Anyway.
Brianna Elizabeth (29:37.843)
Yeah, no, I've tried. I can't do it. I laugh when Jared tries.
Lisa (29:46.724)
But like curiously Brianna, like again, when you were a little kid and you would have big emotions, did you get validated? Did you have people stop and say, I can see you're upset or I can see you're really mad. Like, you know, what's that like for you?
Chuck LaFLange (29:46.802)
Um.
Brianna Elizabeth (29:58.775)
No.
Brianna Elizabeth (30:03.163)
My mom was one of those kids are to be seen and not hurt. Now here's where the flip side is. Even though I wasn't raised around my dad, and now today I see.
the environment that my sisters were raised in and I am appreciative for the environment that I was raised in, my dad lets kids be kids.
Brianna Elizabeth (30:29.067)
You know, he sits down and he'll talk to them and stuff like that. So, you know, it's no, I was raised in a kids are to be seen, not heard.
Chuck LaFLange (30:33.678)
And that's interesting, Brianna. I can, a big parallel to that, very different. My little brother is 12 years our junior to my twin brother and I. So we're raised in very, very different households. My mom remarried, my stepdad, who is just this incredible guy when we were like six. And so by the time Levi came around, it was another six years after that, and he was just raised in a totally different environment.
than we were. And I'll never speak ill of mom and all those things. But it was a very different place. My brother and I were both chip on our shoulders kids for whatever reason. And I don't know, that's not something I've ever really delved into. But I remember looking at him and at times, and I'm sure you felt this, Brianna, at times being a little resentful at that, but having to bring myself to check in and go,
I'm so happy that he doesn't have that chip on his shoulder, you know, the way I did, right? And just to bring yourself to a place where you can just be happy for them without harboring resentments about it, it can be tough to do, because we're fucking human, right? And so can you relate to that experience? And I'm sure you can, and you kind of just described it, I think, right?
Brianna Elizabeth (31:47.243)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Brianna Elizabeth (31:53.371)
Yeah, it was going, you know, working through my childhood and with the therapist and stuff like that and realizing that, you know, it is what it is and, you know, accepting things for how they happened. But, yeah, no, I am grateful for my sisters. They still, you know, they're still issues in the house, but they were allowed to be kids and express their emotions and work through things.
I'm happy for them for that. I have a great relationship with my sisters, even though we didn't grow up around each other. You know, so yeah, no, I... Even my brother, you know, it's weird because we were raised and the, you know, kids are to be seen and not heard. You could, the kids, when we go to my brother's house, run around the house, do whatever you want, be as loud as you want, you know? And I let my kids do that too, you know, because I don't want them to have that.
You know, but.
Lisa (32:50.276)
That's the thing, I think we always try to just do a little bit better than what was, you know, what we experienced. You know, we're not perfect, you know. We screw up all the time, but like, what day was it?
Chuck LaFLange (33:00.978)
And our parents, the difference between your 40 years ago, your parents have grown in that 40 years too. You know what I mean? So of course they're gonna be different with their grandkids and their, you know. You don't think, if my mother didn't question her parenting at some point during the shit show that my brother and I, my twin brother and I both in our own ways, and we've both been complete shit shows.
Brianna Elizabeth (33:09.955)
I'm not that old, Chuck.
Brianna Elizabeth (33:14.747)
Well no, you see...
Chuck LaFLange (33:30.442)
If she didn't question her parenting at some point in there, she wouldn't be a human being. Right? Like she just wouldn't be. Right? So you're gonna learn from that experience too. And you know, go ahead.
Brianna Elizabeth (33:32.868)
I believe it.
Lisa (33:38.816)
It's rare, like I feel like I've seen...
I've seen really narcissistic people who don't question their parenting because they are so narcissistic that there's like, well, I'm not doing anything wrong. All these problems are them, not me, but it's rare. I think most people do question their parenting. One thing though is I think in our parents' generation, even though I'm sure they questioned it, I don't think they were vocal about it. And I think even today a lot of people aren't. But
Chuck LaFLange (33:48.119)
OK. Yeah.
Chuck LaFLange (33:56.907)
Yes.
Lisa (34:11.496)
I think that sharing that we recognize we've made mistakes, sharing that we don't have it all figured out is really powerful for kids. A few days ago, I got super upset with my daughter and yelled at her. After I calmed myself down, I went and I apologized to her. I mean, again, I don't think in our parents' generation, how often do our parents apologize to us?
Chuck LaFLange (34:23.591)
Oh, yeah.
Lisa (34:42.245)
I had good parents. I don't remember a lot of that.
Chuck LaFLange (34:42.658)
Like you think mathematically you were wrong once, like it had to have happened once where you were wrong, right, mathematically over the course of like 15 years, right? No, you were right every single time. You would think that was impossible, but yeah, here we are, right?
Lisa (34:53.748)
Yep. No.
you know, but it's like, but apologizing, like apologize to your kids. Like if you screw up, apologize, just like when they screw up, we want them to apologize. And like I went and I said, I'm sorry, I yelled at you. And she said to me, she said, it's okay, mom. And I said, it's not actually okay. Like, hopefully you forgive me. But it's not okay for me to yell at you like that. And so I have to work on that, you know, and I think being transparent.
Brianna Elizabeth (35:05.681)
Mm-hmm.
Lisa (35:25.464)
Being transparently human with our kids is a huge gift. Because it's like, show them that you make mistakes, share vulnerability, take accountability, and all of that kind of comes with a simple transparent conversation when we screw up as parents. And there's a lot of modeling in that for our children. Right?
Brianna Elizabeth (35:48.227)
I actually ended up taking, this is how deep I dived into everything, I took a parenting class so I could help, you know, myself with my kids. You know, because I did it wrong for so many years. You know, and that was part of...
Chuck LaFLange (35:48.414)
Yeah, there is.
Brianna Elizabeth (36:07.127)
my healing from my addiction and I learned I got validation from that parenting class you know that I was doing stuff right and I got some tips on how to do some things better so some of us learn on our own and some of us need a little help you know
Lisa (36:23.7)
Yeah, I feel like we probably all need a little help.
Chuck LaFLange (36:25.307)
At the end of the day, so long as you're not letting them listen to Taylor, listen, at the end of the day, as long as you're not letting your kids listen to Taylor Swift, you're raising good kids, right? Because that's what good parenting is all about.
Lisa (36:36.632)
Oh no!
Brianna Elizabeth (36:38.587)
That was Jared bringing me my coffee.
Chuck LaFLange (36:39.186)
I had to say it. I had to say it. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm not sorry. I'm not. I'm not. Actually.
Lisa (36:43.26)
I don't know if Brianna gets the context of that, but you know. Okay.
Brianna Elizabeth (36:46.711)
I do when I ignore it. And see so Chuck it's funny you know like you say you know like you know your mom is raising your brother different. I want my kids to have their grandparents because mine oh okay so anyway um I didn't really have my grandparents they passed away at a young age for me so I want my kids to have that. But my mom is still even with the grandkids.
Chuck LaFLange (36:48.458)
Hahaha
Chuck LaFLange (36:56.43)
Mm-hmm. Was raising. Like, he's a grown ass man now, by the way, right? But yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Brianna Elizabeth (37:16.175)
you were to be seen and not heard. So I do limit those interactions. And my son, my son is a boy. He's really rambunctious. He's loud. You have to keep him busy. So like my daughter, my daughters can spend the night at my mom's house. My son can't. I will not leave my son alone with my mom.
Chuck LaFLange (37:18.43)
Yeah, that's unfortunate.
Chuck LaFLange (37:39.996)
Yeah.
Brianna Elizabeth (37:45.031)
because I have control issues. But I also don't want, you know, I don't want those same things to happen to him.
Chuck LaFLange (37:53.047)
Of course you don't.
Lisa (37:53.444)
And like one thing I would challenge you to do is that when you tell yourself you have control issues, add on in your mind for a reason. It's there for a reason. You know, there's a reason. You're not like faulty. There's a reason that you do what you do, right?
Brianna Elizabeth (38:01.635)
Yeah, yeah, there's a reason. Oh yeah, they are.
Chuck LaFLange (38:07.79)
Well, maybe a little. Maybe a little.
Brianna Elizabeth (38:13.63)
Thanks Chuck.
Chuck LaFLange (38:14.078)
I can't help it. I can't help it. Yeah.
Lisa (38:14.781)
I know.
Lisa (38:18.564)
And I do think, you know, this is gonna be like unique to every parent. And also I think it depends a bit on the child's age. But I think also like things like having open conversations about the fact that, you know what, like grandma's not perfect. And there's some things grandma does that, you know, are different than the way we do them at home. And it's just, you know, that's just kind of the way grandma is. Can also help kids be around the grandparents.
And because they're going to notice like if they go to their grandparents house and like grandma behaves very differently than you or grandma gets mad about things you don't get mad about They notice it. So again, it's like just have an open conversation because like pretending they're not going to notice is we're all kidding ourselves like they notice a lot more than we give them credit for so
Brianna Elizabeth (39:08.155)
And I think the way I explain it to them, you know, because it's normal for, you know, other environments is there's different rules at different houses. You know, this person, this is their rules when we go to their house. This is this person's rules when we go to their house. And you know, it's, he listens to it, but his, his impulses get the best of it. You know, because he does live in a safe home. You know, it's, it's hard to.
Lisa (39:15.968)
Yep.
Lisa (39:31.22)
Yeah, yeah. So.
Lisa (39:36.121)
Right.
Brianna Elizabeth (39:38.432)
shut that off for a little bit, you know?
Lisa (39:40.76)
And so you said you have three kids, is that right? Yeah. And during your time of like using, were they ever taken from you or are they always with you? Okay. And...
Brianna Elizabeth (39:52.612)
I always had them.
I've gotten my two strikes and I will never mess up again.
Lisa (39:59.916)
Hmm. But what was it like, like trying to, because I just think like I find parent, I only have one kid and like, I find it challenging a lot of the times. And that's with a clear head, you know, like, what, what was that like for you parenting three kids while dealing with all those other things?
Brianna Elizabeth (40:21.831)
I don't know, I was so high that I just tuned everything out. I was there, but I wasn't. I wasn't there. There was a lot of yelling, you know, a lot of me not like really interacting with them. And it just, you know, go be a kid. You know, I'll feed you, I'll make sure you, you know, you're clean, but beyond that, you know, like we'd go out and do fun stuff. I can say, you know, I wasn't, you know, we-
Lisa (40:31.085)
Yeah.
Brianna Elizabeth (40:50.295)
stayed in the house all the time but i was always so high or drunk that i don't think i really parented them you know i was just an adult in the house to make sure they were alive
Lisa (41:07.136)
And then what were their ages when you got sober?
Brianna Elizabeth (41:12.859)
I've been sober for four years, and I have a thirteen, so she was nine, six, and three.
Lisa (41:21.188)
nine, six, seven, three, okay. And then like when you got sober, what was that like for the kids, like particularly your older kids? Like did they ask questions? Did they talk about, you know, what it was like for them when you were using or?
Brianna Elizabeth (41:35.871)
Um, no I think they just pointed out, you know, that I was different. You know, mommy- And this is still- I'd probably cry when I say this, but... They'd be like, mommy, you're being nice.
You know, and it's... they don't say that anymore because I'm nice now, but... It was a lot of, mommy, you're being nice. Mommy, you're being nice. So, and even though that hurt, that reminded me that I was doing the right thing.
Lisa (41:55.357)
Hmm
Lisa (41:59.766)
Yeah.
Lisa (42:08.148)
Yeah. And hopefully reminded you that you're a good person, you know, that the real you is nice.
Brianna Elizabeth (42:08.615)
So, we are, yeah, oh, yeah.
Brianna Elizabeth (42:18.307)
me and Jared so I can stop crying. His kids, you know, dealt with him being an addict too. So we're actually going to this summer and I'm going to try, I'm working with a couple other people that have kids, but they're going to sit down with us first before they allow us to sit with their kids. But we sat down with somebody recently that struggles with mental health. Like strong, you know.
He's had a couple attempts of taking his life and his daughter's 11 and I asked him, I'm like, have you ever sat down with her and talk to her about like what she understands about you or mental health in general? He goes, she's 11. She doesn't deal with that.
Lisa (43:03.524)
Hmm. Yeah, right.
Brianna Elizabeth (43:05.995)
I wasn't arguing with him, it just made me think, you know, me and Jared this summer, we're going to start with our kids sitting on the couch and we're going to set a camera up and we're going to ask them, you know, because they do struggle with mental health. You know, they do have daily struggles that they deal with, you know, what do you understand about mental health and what do you understand about addiction? So we can bring that awareness to that our kids know.
you know, they know. So, you know, I had an 11 year old girl over at my house the other day and my daughter had reacted to her brother and the little girl goes, that was her fight or flight. And I look at her and I'm like, you know, but that validated too, you know, so we're going to start sitting down with, you know, children, obviously with their parents' permission, to see what they do understand.
Lisa (43:50.468)
Wow.
Brianna Elizabeth (44:05.655)
you know, so we can let parents know, like, they know. They know what's going on. And they notice that difference.
Lisa (44:13.456)
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's an oversimplified statement to come out of my mouth, but anybody watching this who thinks their kids don't know you're wrong. They know, you know, and it doesn't matter how prudish your household may be because they go to school and they talk to other kids and
Brianna Elizabeth (44:24.579)
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yeah.
Chuck LaFLange (44:28.56)
Yeah.
Brianna Elizabeth (44:35.879)
Hmm.
Lisa (44:39.392)
You know, I am not, so to become a child and adolescent psychiatrist, you do like a sixth year of residency in a fellowship program, so I have not done that. During like a regular psychiatry residency program, we do have to do child and adolescent training. So I've, you know, done psychiatric work at the Children's Hospital in Calgary. I have spent time on the child psychiatry unit at the
Children's Hospital. These are like little kids. And then I've also spent time on the adolescent unit at the Foothills Hospital. Kids know. Yeah. And if you're sticking your head in the sand, then you need to pull it out.
Brianna Elizabeth (45:24.563)
And see that's something you know like he explained like his wife doesn't deal with it that much and you know he'll be dealing with his issues and he won't see his daughter for the weekend and sometimes he'll go months without seeing her and that's why I asked him that question. Have you ever spoken to her to see what she understands like he was all over the news he was a cop he was locked inside his house with all his guns like he went through
huge thing when she was old it was just two years ago, so she was nine and If he really thinks I let him okay. I wasn't gonna argue with him But it did make me realize that there needs to be more of an awareness brought
Lisa (46:07.584)
And two, like when kids don't know, they will create a narrative, right? So if you think that just being secretive or not talking about it is doing your kid a favor, they have wild imaginations and they will fill in the gaps with whatever narrative they want. And to be honest, a lot of times the narrative is worse than the reality. And so, you know, I do.
Brianna Elizabeth (46:12.039)
Mm-hmm.
Brianna Elizabeth (46:24.847)
They do.
Lisa (46:35.336)
agree that things need to be done in a manner that is suitable based on a child's age. You know, I don't think you divulge all the dirty details to a five-year-old. But I think, yeah, starting with the what do you know about this or what do you think is going on or whatever, and then helping them fill in the gaps so that they don't allow their imagination to do it for them. Yeah.
Brianna Elizabeth (46:41.987)
Absolutely.
Brianna Elizabeth (47:00.455)
And then, you know, I absolutely agree with you there, everything is age appropriate, you know, but you still can explain it to a child at any age. You know, when they're dealing with, what did you call it before they're, what are we born with? Temperaments. You know, we can explain those temperaments to our kids and help them work through them and process them as a child as opposed to an adult.
Lisa (47:15.236)
temperaments.
Brianna Elizabeth (47:29.323)
you know, and I think that's so important.
Lisa (47:31.956)
Yeah, and I think, you know, it's funny because we're an addictions podcast and we're actually talking a lot about like just personalities and temperaments and, you know, stuff like that. But it's so important because, you know, especially you take people who have, well, actually, I wouldn't even say that. If you have that more explosive temperament, you know, and you're not getting the validation you need, then kids don't have good coping skills, right? They need to be taught coping skills. So if they're not taught coping skills,
and then they're exposed to substances that takes the edge off this explosiveness or kind of dampens it or whatever it might be for them, they're going to be more likely to enjoy that feeling, you know. Similarly, if you have a kid who's an internalizer, they're quiet, they suppress it, they squish it down. That stuff all builds up internally. So again, when they find substances, it's also a release. So I do think there's like such a, like...
it can all be drawn together. Does this mean that every kid with either of these extreme temperament styles is going to go on and struggle with addiction? No. But I think that it's just another thing that what can we be doing for our children so that they don't seek out or enjoy the coping that comes with drugs, right? And it's like...
Brianna Elizabeth (48:54.167)
Especially like you said, like with the... Sorry, go ahead.
Lisa (48:57.208)
But it's just yet to make sure like that they're seen and that they're heard and that we have these conversations and we have open dialogue and we validate them. It's just another thing as a parent that you can do with a young child or with a child of any age that I think decreases the likelihood that drugs are going to be what they're looking for.
Brianna Elizabeth (49:20.431)
And I don't even think like on the path of drugs, like it helps them be open with you. You know, if we're having these conversations with our kids at such a young age and we can have a back and forth understanding age appropriate conversation with our children, if they do start struggling, you know, they might, they'll be more inclined to speak to either a parent or a friend or another adult.
because they feel safe you know so it's
Lisa (49:52.724)
Agreed. I don't know if did I can't remember now if this came up a few weeks ago in the podcast somehow. But it was something that I saw posted on Instagram. I can't remember by who. And I just thought it was such a brilliant idea. Like my little one is almost at the age where I could do it. Like she's starting to write a little bit. But certainly if you've got like kids who can write and spell and whatever, is that you get a notebook.
Brianna Elizabeth (50:01.087)
Mm.
Lisa (50:22.488)
and this notebook is for one purpose. And so if there is something they wanna tell you or ask you or whatever, they write it in this notebook and they put it under your pillow. And the agreement is that as the parent, you will never bring up the topics in that notebook verbally, but you will write them back in the notebook, you know.
based on whether they're asking you a question or they're sharing something with you, like you will write them back and you will put it under their pillow. And it's just this very safe space where they can tell you or ask you anything and know that unless they choose to bring it up in face-to-face verbal conversation, that you will not, which will probably be very difficult, right? There might be certain things that go into that notebook that are, you're just like, oh, how do I not have a conversation?
Brianna Elizabeth (51:17.63)
Meh.
Lisa (51:20.693)
But I just thought like just another super simple cheap thing that as a parent we can do to just make sure that they know there's always a way they can tell us things and that we're not going to react or, you know, whatever it might be.
Brianna Elizabeth (51:36.935)
I think I'm gonna start that with my daughter today. She does sometimes like she'll leave me little notes, you know, like before she goes to school she'll leave me a little note on the end table and then she'll just ask after school if I've seen it and I'm like, yeah, do you want to talk about it? And she's like, no. I'm like, okay. You know, I read it. You know, anything that goes.
Lisa (51:39.032)
Does that sound? Yeah. Like I'm like.
Lisa (51:52.436)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so hard to not, you know, create conversation when they don't want to, but I think it is so important, right? Like, I might have to leave the house sometimes to avoid engaging in that conversation, like, because I think it would be hard, but I think it's just such a cool, cool idea. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Brianna Elizabeth (52:08.784)
Hehe
Brianna Elizabeth (52:17.027)
Yeah, that is a really neat idea. And that helps us understand our kids' thoughts, too, you know, and how they're processing stuff. And like you said, you know, like we're not going to talk about what they wrote, but then we can understand ourselves more, too, because we aren't being reactive. We have to, you know, compose our thoughts before we respond, you know, and that helps with adults, too, you know, responding to other adults. And...
Lisa (52:26.008)
Hmm.
Chuck LaFLange (52:27.415)
Yeah.
Lisa (52:36.9)
Yeah, totally.
Lisa (52:41.965)
Mm-hmm.
Brianna Elizabeth (52:44.619)
you know, situations everywhere. So I think that's a help for everyone.
Chuck LaFLange (52:45.534)
No kidding. I love that. Ladies, we've come up on an hour here rather quickly, which is unfortunate because there's so much more to talk about. We never even come close to talking about the things that we had planned on, and that's fine because I think this episode is just as if not more valuable, right? I think there's a lot to be learned from this episode and a lot of people can take from it, so.
Brianna Elizabeth (52:57.392)
Yeah.
Lisa (53:05.332)
I know.
Brianna Elizabeth (53:05.895)
I'm sorry.
Chuck LaFLange (53:16.543)
With that said, Brianna, I'll start with you and then we'll move on to Lisa with this. I've got just one more question each for you guys. Brianna, if you're talking to the mother or a mother who is suffering an addiction, and guilt and shame are what they are, right? They're guilt and shame. What do you say to that person?
as they consider getting into recovery or in early recovery about all the things that they must be feeling in the moment.
Brianna Elizabeth (53:52.295)
I'll say the same thing I'll always say. No matter how many bridges you've burnt, that bridge to recovery is always there. And it is filled with love and acceptance on the other side. You know, no matter what you're feeling or what you're going through, there is somebody on the other side that will understand you and will validate you. You know, your feelings are valid. That's why I tell people all the time. Your feelings are valid. Nobody else has to understand them, but they're valid.
Chuck LaFLange (54:20.482)
Beautiful.
Beautiful. Somebody once said to me a long time ago, you are entitled to every single emotion you have. And I just, I think about that often, and I actually, just randomly kind of off topic, threw that line back at her 20 years later, a couple months ago. She had posted, we hadn't talked in probably 15 years, and she had posted something, she was having a really hard time, and I said to her, no, somebody once said to me, right, I was able to just throw her own line back at her.
Chuck LaFLange (54:55.205)
Lisa, the same question goes to you. What would you say?
through your lens.
Lisa (55:03.76)
Yeah, so to a parent who is struggling with addiction and feeling a lot of shame about how it's impacted their parenting.
Chuck LaFLange (55:08.714)
Yeah, or an early recovery. Yeah. Yeah, or early recovery. You know, it's, yeah, same thing really, right?
Lisa (55:13.845)
Yeah.
Lisa (55:20.164)
One thing I love to say to parents in general is what would you say if this was your daughter?
How would you speak to your daughter if she found herself in this situation 20 years from now? And then you go look yourself in the mirror and you say that thing to you. You know, because as a parent, you would not look at your child ever at any age and wish for them to shame themselves or hate themselves. And so it's, you know, what would you say to your best friend?
Brianna Elizabeth (55:50.631)
Mm.
Lisa (55:55.324)
if you don't have kids or what would you say to your child if they were in this situation as an adult one day and then show yourself the same grace and the same kindness.
Chuck LaFLange (56:09.091)
Wow. I love that. I absolutely love that. Well, that does bring us to my favorite part of the show. And as we know, that's the daily gratitudes. So let's start with you, Brianna. What you got for some daily gratitudes?
Brianna Elizabeth (56:28.084)
I am, with this conversation, I am grateful for my kids and their enthusiasm for their lives every day.
Chuck LaFLange (56:39.254)
Wonderful. Lisa, what you got for us today?
Brianna Elizabeth (56:40.559)
Yep, that was it.
Lisa (56:46.548)
Yeah, I mean, I think it's on my mind now because we talked about it, but I'm grateful to have a little human being who sees me through a bright light, even at my worst, who will forgive me when I screw up. And yeah, she, Alexis is like the joy of my life, you know, like I always wanted to be a mom. I became a mom much later in life. I did not have an easy time becoming a mom.
And so I'm just grateful for her today.
Chuck LaFLange (57:21.37)
That's beautiful. For myself, it's, you know what? Today's the year of Brianna for showing up at last minute and not just showing up, but having a hell of a conversation, right? Just like a really fantastic conversation. You can tell I think it's a great one if I'm not talking much. And just to sit here and listen to you two moms talk through your different lenses, it's just been a beautiful talk. And I'm really glad that you were able to show up and help us out with that. So thank you very much. Thank you.
Lisa (57:31.82)
Yeah.
Lisa (57:41.976)
Hehehe
Brianna Elizabeth (57:52.351)
Like you said, it wasn't the conversation we planned, but it happened.
Chuck LaFLange (57:52.486)
Right? Also.
Yeah, right. I'm also very grateful to every single person who continues to like, watch, listen, comment, share, subscribe, hit all the buttons down at the bottom. Every time you do any one of these things, you are getting me a little bit closer to living my best life, and that is to continue making a humble living, spreading the message. The message is this. If you're in active addiction right now, today could be that day, today could be the day that you start a lifelong journey.
Reach out to a friend, reach out to a family member, call into detox, go to a meeting, go to church, pray. I don't care. Do what effort is you need to do to get that journey started because it is so much better than the alternative. And if you have a loved one who's suffering an addiction right now, you're just taking the time to listen to this enlightening conversation. You just take one more minute out of your day and text that person, let them know they're loved. Use the words.
Brianna Elizabeth (58:50.839)
You are loved.
Lisa (58:50.965)
You are love.
Chuck LaFLange (58:53.698)
That little glimmer of hope just might be the thing that brings them back.
Chuck LaFLange (59:00.994)
Very good job, ladies. Very, very good job. I just think we could have gone on.
Brianna Elizabeth (59:03.567)
I was looking for a button to end it, but I'm not ending it this time.
Shattered Stigma
Yatra
Morning Cup
