244 NICOLE VICTORIOUS

Chuck LaFLange (00:01.82)
Hello everybody, watchers, listeners, supporters of all kinds. Welcome to another episode of the Ashes to Awesome podcast. I'm your host, Chuck LaFlandre, checking in from Krabi, Thailand. Halfway around the world in Louisiana, United States, is Nicole Chatagnier. Did I get it right, Chatagnier? Yes? Sorry?

Nicole Chatagnier (00:17.314)
Chatagnier Chatagnier. Nobody gets it right.

Chuck LaFLange (00:21.628)
Shetanya, I was close. Wow. Okay, Shetanya. I should have asked that ahead of time. How you doing today, Nicole?

Nicole Chatagnier (00:28.994)
I am wonderful, how are you?

Chuck LaFLange (00:31.292)
I'm pretty good. I'm pretty good. It's 1030 at night here in Thailand and still pretty nice and warm out. So I'm doing good. I'm doing good. You're in Louisiana. She's all hot and bothered there, is it? Yes. Yeah. No kidding. No kidding. Well, I can relate to that. That's a similar thing going on here during the day. So, hey, so.

Nicole Chatagnier (00:40.896)
That's awesome.

Nicole Chatagnier (00:45.235)
yes so hot so hot it's not even noon and it's so hot

Chuck LaFLange (00:58.652)
We haven't had much of a chance to talk, you know, pre -record and all that. I know you've got a hell of a story. I know you're a three -time convicted felon, former IV drug user. You said a couple things in your reels that I wanna jump on, just for some language that you've used that I was like, ooh, that's interesting to me. So, but we'll get all to that when we get to that. So in the meantime, one of the things I like to do when we first started on an episode is, do you remember the first time you got messed up?

Nicole Chatagnier (01:17.503)
Awesome.

Nicole Chatagnier (01:26.591)
drugs I can remember the first time I abused it. I am a product of the opioid crisis so like I've never smoked a cigarette. I drank a little in high school and college, no biggie, and was in an accident and this is the very beginning of 2000 where they're just over prescribing and so I remember the first time I abused it. My tolerance had built before I was just trapped.

Chuck LaFLange (01:31.1)
Yeah. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (01:36.764)
Okay.

Chuck LaFLange (01:51.804)
No.

Chuck LaFLange (01:58.588)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry, I'm just gonna make myself bigger. Okay.

Do you remember how it made you feel? There's a couple questions, I've got some follow -up stuff here. So do you remember how it made you feel when you abused the first time? How was that? Yeah. Okay. And how old were you? How old would you have been by at that point then?

Nicole Chatagnier (02:15.249)
Yes, numb and that's exactly what I was looking for. I didn't want to feel anything.

Nicole Chatagnier (02:24.414)
about 25, 25 -26. yes. And I, yes, I didn't even use the needle till my mid -30s.

Chuck LaFLange (02:26.94)
So a late bloomer, a late bloomer into the abusing of the narcotics, right? Okay, okay.

Chuck LaFLange (02:36.124)
No kidding, no kidding. So you wanted to feel numb. See, this changes my whole line of questioning because normally it's somebody who's very young. So you have to, you know, and then I go in to say, were you self aware enough at the time to know what it was doing for you? But it sounds like, yeah, you definitely were. I mean, but you're in your mid 20s by then. That's what you're looking for. So yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, well, I'm gonna let you tell your story the way you tell your story. I just I like to ask those few questions right off the bat and we'll just kind of go from there. So yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (02:54.142)
exactly what I was looking for.

Nicole Chatagnier (03:05.629)
I'm an open book, like I said, you can ask me anything. I grew up in the South, obviously. So, couldn't tell at all, could ya? Probably, yeah, that was it. But, the reason my testimony is so important to me is because I think with addiction, people stereotype. And they think that it's only a certain type of person that it happens to. And if you look at my childhood,

Chuck LaFLange (03:12.188)
couldn't tell. I couldn't tell. No, I was thinking Boston. I don't know, right? Yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (03:35.069)
It was the all -American childhood. I'm an only child. I was spoiled rotten to the point to where it almost formed a disability. That was not intended. I was just really loved. I was super popular in high school. And most people might have wanted to have my experience, but what they didn't know is I've had horrible self -esteem issues my whole entire life.

I never was good enough for myself and I'm very, very empathetic and I never ever, ever would make fun of anybody. I was all the time taken up for other people, even though I was the popular girl. I was kind of a loner too. I didn't run with the mean girls. I didn't care for them. I went to a gigantic high school and I think the reason why I was popular is because I was nice to people. Like I was all the time taken up for people.

Which is odd because I wouldn't take up for myself. I would take up for somebody else but not myself. And I really had no coping mechanism. So I just kind of slide through life. And when I get to college, I realized that I don't even know who I am. I don't know what I want. I don't want to go to class anymore. I don't want to be a straight A student anymore. I had danced my whole entire life and I had done...

what everything had been expected of me. Like I never even got sent to the principal's office. So how do I get free felonies? Right. And that's, I think the importance of my testimony is don't think addiction can happen to you or your family because it absolutely can. And that's why I tell it. But when I was 20, I got pregnant with my son who's 23 now and

Chuck LaFLange (05:07.996)
Okay.

Yeah, no kidding.

Chuck LaFLange (05:21.852)
Yeah. 100%. Yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (05:34.842)
I was with a guy that I really didn't know that well. I had just gotten out of a five year relationship and it's 20 or six year relationship. If you think about that, that's a long time, right? So he was just right. So I'm just like basically with this guy and I wind up pregnant and I know that I don't want to be with him. So I break up with him not saying, Hey, you can't be a part of the child's life. I didn't say that, but.

Chuck LaFLange (05:46.204)
that's demonstrated as it's a quarter of your life or more, right? So yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (06:04.569)
Long story short, I hadn't seen you since. So, I mean, yeah. So, that was just, and it really didn't even upset me. That's the thing. It just didn't. And I got two jobs. I was waiting tables at night at Outback Steakhouse and working at a hair salon during the day. And I was not, I mean, of course I was scared because I was pregnant, but it wasn't affecting me, I don't think normally. The way another person would, I'd,

Chuck LaFLange (06:07.548)
Okay.

Nicole Chatagnier (06:34.169)
don't really have coping mechanisms. And I think I buried myself in the work and trying to save up money.

Chuck LaFLange (06:34.812)
Mm -hmm.

Chuck LaFLange (06:40.412)
which which I would argue is a coping mechanism. Workaholic here, I understand. Yes.

Nicole Chatagnier (06:44.12)
Well, I slipped like I mostly Right, I think that maybe I should have been more scared and I don't know I fell in love with my son like I just fell in love with me and was like, okay, let's whatever but I slipped and fell at Outback's safe house at seven months pregnant and my kneecap goes to the back of my leg and When it hits the ground it breaks in three pieces and cuts the inside of my leg up

Chuck LaFLange (06:57.212)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (07:04.156)
Okay.

Chuck LaFLange (07:10.844)
Mmm.

Chuck LaFLange (07:14.812)
oof.

Nicole Chatagnier (07:15.032)
And now I'm like, this is serious. Like all I was worried about was my son. That was the only thing on my mind. And I remember laying on the ground, they could kick, move, move, you know, like do something, let me know you're okay. And he did. And when they got me to the hospital, they were like, his, they had to do an amniocentesis, his lungs are developed. They're like, if we do the surgery on your leg to repair it, it could cause you to go into labor. He could have problems. And I was like,

Chuck LaFLange (07:21.884)
Yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (07:44.759)
don't do it, then I'll just be crippled. Don't do it.

Chuck LaFLange (07:49.724)
Wow.

Nicole Chatagnier (07:50.199)
And so I laid there in that bed for about six or seven weeks waiting on him to be ready. And gave birth like that. I call it the National Lampoon Child Delivery. I had this woman holding up this broken leg and, you know, I'm giving birth and I just, that was, yeah. And I think that was the first thing where other people were like, she's so strong and I still didn't see it.

Chuck LaFLange (07:56.668)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (08:02.588)
Ha ha ha!

Chuck LaFLange (08:11.196)
Wow.

Chuck LaFLange (08:19.644)
Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (08:19.67)
I just didn't see it. And like I said, I just fell in love with my child and everything is copacetic. I end up having like 12 surgeries and I'm not abused in the drugs. Like they're over prescribed and I'm getting OC80s, Xanax, Somas, Ambien, you name it, I've got it, Percocet breakthroughs, you know, and I'm just not taking them as prescribed. I'm in therapy learning how to walk again. Me and my son learned to walk.

Chuck LaFLange (08:44.572)
Wow.

Nicole Chatagnier (08:49.301)
I'm in school to be a medical esthetician and I'm fighting through this until My little boy is two years old and you asked the first time if I remembered the first time You know that I've been tried for our messed up our and this was the first time I've used it My little boy's hair started to come out We laugh he's hairless like the cat on Austin Powers I like but I

Chuck LaFLange (08:56.636)
Mm -hmm.

Nicole Chatagnier (09:18.293)
We can laugh about it now, but in that time span, my heart just cracked and I didn't understand what was happening. And I had mentioned that I'd never made fun of anybody. So now my kid is going to be made fun of and I'm pissed off. I'm mad at God. I'm like, this is not happening. I couldn't protect him. And...

It took a while for all the hair to come out and we were in Walmart one day and this family is like staring at him. And like he's got three eyeballs, he was called Freak. They would come up to like right in front of him and ask me when he was going to die because they thought he had chemo. You know, he was going through chemo treatments and I just couldn't take it anymore. It was around Christmas time and they were staring at him and pointing and laughing. And I told Colby, I said, hold my purse.

and I pushed the buggy, you know how they make castles out of Oreo cookies? I just, just, just, just, just threw the Oreo down the, why you got something to look at, you know? And I'm fussing and I'm mad. I get thrown out of Walmart and I come home that day and I open up my medicine cup and it's full of pills. And I didn't want to feel anything anymore. So I took a handful of them. And that is how it began for me.

Chuck LaFLange (10:18.94)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (10:26.588)
wow.

Nicole Chatagnier (10:44.327)
I was a functioning addict for a super long time. I graduated from a study school and I was working at El Rato Casino with extremely wealthy people which got me on movie sets. Movies are filmed in Shreveport and I'm popping 40 perks a day. And yeah, nobody has clues. I look like I have it together. I'm a PTA mom. I'm taking him to, you know,

Chuck LaFLange (11:03.388)
shit.

Nicole Chatagnier (11:14.162)
Alopecia tail every year speaking to other parents, but behind closed doors, I'm a mess. Like I'm crying all the time and if I could go back in time, I'd slap the mess out of myself. It was hair.

Chuck LaFLange (11:17.916)
Mm -hmm.

Chuck LaFLange (11:28.188)
Yeah, no kidding, right? No kidding. But yeah. Yeah. Well, and of course, now the life you've lived gives you all sorts of, you know, perspective, but at the time, yeah, right.

Nicole Chatagnier (11:30.066)
Like there's so many worse things out there, but my little 20

Nicole Chatagnier (11:39.537)
My 20 year old felt yeah, you know by then I'm about 25 But I just couldn't deal with it and I you know my tolerance is building my tolerance is building and I got dope sick before I knew what dope sick was My my pills had been up at the pharmacy for about a day or two and I thought I had the flu I'm laying in bed fluish and Then I get my pills and my mom noticed it. I

Chuck LaFLange (11:53.916)
Chuck LaFLange (12:04.988)
Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (12:08.049)
My mom was like, Nicole, you're not sick anymore. And I'd like to say I had a wonderful moment and got my life together right then and there, but I didn't. I went into denial and it got so much worse.

Chuck LaFLange (12:21.372)
Yes, yes, as it does. Yeah, yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (12:25.904)
It just got so much worse and fast forward, I'm making a ton of money and my pill habit, at one point I was under three pay management contracts and I'm still buying them on the street. But then I get in trouble with that. So now I've gone to completely buy in the pills off the street, but it's not affecting my pocketbook. I'm making so much money. It's not really causing a negative effect on my life.

Chuck LaFLange (12:40.764)
Mm -hmm.

Nicole Chatagnier (12:55.823)
Except when I don't have any and it's not because I'm broke. It's because everybody on the streets that So then I can't work, you know, and that's when the negative the negative stuff starts and I Had I had lived my life? kind of for everybody else like I After years of being in therapy I needed my mom's approval super bad and it was on an abnormal level and I'm

Chuck LaFLange (13:04.494)
Yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (13:24.399)
I don't, she didn't ask for that. It's something that just went wrong with me. But I wanted to rebel. And there was this guy that I'd known my whole life, but I hadn't seen him in nine years. Why? Because he's in prison. And that sounds like a great idea, doesn't it? So yes, the smart heart was working strong that day. So he had just gotten out.

Chuck LaFLange (13:28.732)
I understand. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (13:44.412)
hahahaha

Chuck LaFLange (13:50.396)
Yes.

Nicole Chatagnier (13:53.614)
And I messaged him, you know? I'm like, hey, what's up? And he's remembering Miss Goodie, who she's America from high school. Why in the world would she be messaging me? And I bring up the fact that I've got a field problem or whatever, and he's going to meet me on the roof of the boat. My life changes that day. I knew it was a bad idea. I knew that this was going to end badly.

Chuck LaFLange (13:56.764)
No.

Chuck LaFLange (14:02.14)
Of course. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (14:13.372)
Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (14:23.278)
but there was something so unhinged and unhealed in me that I grabbed on to him. And I tell people all the time, like the devil doesn't show up looking like a monster. He doesn't look like the demon in the movie. He looks like everything you think you want. And the whole romanticize of the body and fly type thing, like it...

Chuck LaFLange (14:41.276)
Yeah, right.

Nicole Chatagnier (14:51.181)
was appealing at the time. Now I'm like, give me Johnny and do y 'all kiss my butt. But at the time it was like, this sounds exciting. It was almost like I was so bored because I had made it by now I'm like 28, 29. And I'm like, I've never really done anything bad. You know, I didn't even break curfew in high school. So like I'm going for this. And we start this love affair and

Chuck LaFLange (14:56.316)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (15:07.612)
Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (15:22.444)
It's crazy because I thought he was the love of my life and I'm so glad he wasn't and I'll get to the good part with the actual love of my life later but I became consumed with this individual and he became consumed with me. It was like an addiction. Yes. And I wanted him because I thought he was the unattainable, you know, it was kind of this wild idea.

Chuck LaFLange (15:40.988)
Codependency. Absolutely. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (15:50.827)
Instantly get married and instantly get pregnant. I did manage Before because he went away for 11 months. He got busted and I held him down and that's when we decided to get married So I Went and got on some of you tax we need myself off. So when he got home We could get pregnant because I didn't want to bring it, you know, I knew I had a problem. I

Chuck LaFLange (16:04.636)
Okay.

Chuck LaFLange (16:18.396)
Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (16:20.49)
So I was stupid to think he was gonna change and the minute I got pregnant, you know, he goes straight to drugs. Like he's using and I'm just kind of left. Like, you know, I say this often, I'm not a martyr. Just because I made it through that pregnancy without getting high does not mean that it wasn't on my mind. I did that for my son. You know, that's strictly it. But...

Chuck LaFLange (16:45.82)
Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (16:50.602)
When I was five months pregnant, my husband at the time came home and he beat the snot out of me for the first time.

he picked me up by my throat and just beat the snot out of me and I just remember being so scared. like I knew I didn't deserve it. I didn't know why it was happening. You know, I have a background, a family that adored me. So how did I end up here? How, why is this happening? It was like everything was in slow mo and

I don't think I was prepared. Like when you see it on the movies and when you see violence, you think that, you think you know how you would feel. You don't, you don't. I went into like, I was just paralyzed, you know? And my brain talked me into me believing that he loved me so much. He had to do that. I don't know why that happened.

Chuck LaFLange (17:41.18)
No, no.

Nicole Chatagnier (17:56.873)
And I've spoken with a lot of other women in domestic violence situations and they thought that too. It's like that because I, it wasn't like I made him do that. You know how women will like that wasn't me. I thought that he had to do that. He loved me so much. He cheated. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, they don't understand our love story and they don't get it. And it sounds so crazy now, but I endured.

Chuck LaFLange (18:08.732)
Yeah. Yeah.

It was passion. It's not anger. It's passion. Right? Yeah. You know.

Chuck LaFLange (18:20.636)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (18:25.66)
I can tell you if you don't mind me interrupting, I can tell you, it seems to me that almost every time I've heard that story, and I've heard that story, changed, you know, people, places and things. And but it's all the same story, right? At the end of that part of it. Beautiful, confident women that find themselves going what the hell happened. It's always it's the same thing that, you know, it's like, how does this?

Nicole Chatagnier (18:28.136)
Go ahead.

Chuck LaFLange (18:52.188)
And at a point in talking to all of these women over the years that I have, I said to myself, there is no way I'm going to understand this, the psychology as to how that happens. So I understand that I will never understand. And I had to leave it at that because I was going crazy trying to figure it out. Right. So continue though. Continue, please. Yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (19:11.175)
I think what I figured out in therapy is this, and I'm speaking for me. My whole life, I was what everybody called the pretty one, but I wanted to be the smart one or the funny one. And my identity was found, yeah, my identity was found in that. And so I didn't find worse in it. I think maybe I'm not sure, but,

Chuck LaFLange (19:24.088)
Being the funny ones overrated, trust me.

Chuck LaFLange (19:40.348)
Yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (19:41.286)
It did happen, like it happened to me and he would beat me down and he would say, you're so stupid, you're trash. He'd make me eat my dinner off the floor if I messed dinner up, but I'll never tell you you're not you.

Chuck LaFLange (19:58.46)
Wow.

Nicole Chatagnier (19:58.95)
because I think he knew that that was the one thing that like I, of course I wanted him to think I was beautiful, but I wanted him to think I was so many other things too. And he used it against me. He is a 12 or 13 times convicted felon. He is affiliated and I was scared. His family had a lot of money, you know, and I felt like I was just.

Chuck LaFLange (20:04.316)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (20:10.94)
Mm -hmm.

Nicole Chatagnier (20:28.133)
gonna die like that and didn't even want to leave him. I'll be honest with you about that. You know, he told me my oldest son and him got very close and you know, we him and I just had a baby but he would tell me I'll make your children hate you. I'll make the boys hate you. They'll choose me every time. And it was hard to deal with and he eventually hurt me pretty bad and went and robbed the Waffle House and got sentenced to six years.

Chuck LaFLange (20:45.404)
Yeah, yeah, right.

Nicole Chatagnier (20:58.34)
but not before he got me on the needle. I take accountability, but I would not have done it. had he not say we are doing that, like we're doing this. I remember the first time I was scared to death. I remember I was of all things. I was praying. I didn't want to die. And, you know, as well as I do that, I'm assuming you do that. The, the administration, once you go that route, nothing else from it.

Chuck LaFLange (21:04.188)
Yeah, of course, no.

Chuck LaFLange (21:26.428)
That's it. Yep. That's it. Yep. Yep.

Nicole Chatagnier (21:28.164)
That's a wrap. Like, I might not have enjoyed the actual needle use, but the rest of it, that's a wrap. Nothing else works after that. And so here it is. He goes off to prison and I've got this needle habit. And...

I don't really have a place to go and I'm not gonna leave him. He's gonna do six years. And I did have a guy that I was friends with, I've been friends with for a long time, who I also knew had the same habit as me. And I thought, well, I'll just be with him and we end up homeless together. My parents step in and take my voice. And that was the most painful moment of my life.

Collins was two. My boys are 11 years apart. My oldest saw horrific abuse. And my youngest has no recollection on it. I'm very thankful that he has no memory. And I'm so thankful that my oldest is okay. Forgiving myself for that is not even something I'm 100 % sure that I've done.

Chuck LaFLange (22:33.308)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (22:39.644)
No kidding, no kidding.

Nicole Chatagnier (22:45.411)
I say that I've done it, but I still have my moments where I'm discussing. And that's human. I think if anybody who just didn't have those moments, I would be concerned about, I guess.

Chuck LaFLange (22:48.572)
Of course you do. Of course you do, yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (22:59.58)
Of course, of course, right? Yep.

Nicole Chatagnier (23:01.971)
But I get so bad off, I would use my face.

At one point had tracks all through here. This big hole right here is from a MRSA. I was using my face.

Chuck LaFLange (23:22.012)
Wow. Wow. I honestly, in the hundreds of stories, I've never heard somebody injecting in their face. Yeah. Wow. Wow.

Nicole Chatagnier (23:24.515)
Nicole Chatagnier (23:34.083)
It was horrible because of my training in a sex. I was very familiar with the the veins in the face and I would cut my circulation off in my face and make it pop. And I'm like how bad off do you have to be? I didn't care. I wanted my kids and but this is the thing about addiction. Looking back at it, why didn't I just go to rehab like my parents wanted me to?

Chuck LaFLange (23:49.98)
Wow.

I'm kidding, eh?

Chuck LaFLange (24:04.22)
Wow, yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (24:04.675)
Why did I continue? But the addicted brain, I thought I was going to die without the drug and it crosses this line where you're not, it's a sickness, you're not making sense. Like there's no sense to be made. And...

Chuck LaFLange (24:15.644)
No, no. No, of course not. It's your your when you're in heavy, especially opioid addiction. The your frontal prefrontal cortex is not working. You are you are literally an insane person. You have almost no access to rational decision making. So that's why right? I mean, that's why and it's trying to try to explain that to people and it's like,

Nicole Chatagnier (24:32.931)
Yes. Yeah, I mean I was not.

Mm -mm. There you go.

Chuck LaFLange (24:43.964)
Yeah, it's an insane person being asked to make a sane choice. That's what you're asking somebody, you know, right? So, you know.

Nicole Chatagnier (24:45.223)
Exactly and We're talking about a woman who had been so put together and had this life and now I don't even look human anymore. My habit had gotten so heavy that I just went and got on subutex and I was injecting that and I like to tell people that sobriety is a

Chuck LaFLange (24:59.004)
Yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (25:14.59)
state of mind. If you make the choice to get on Matt or whatever you're doing and you're bettering your life, you're okay. It ain't mine. It just, it's not how I did it. Like I was just, I didn't go into it with the right frame of mind. So I'm fine. and that stuff is not meant to be injected. So, I, I've got Marissa lesions coming up all over me. I mean, I, it is,

Chuck LaFLange (25:23.516)
Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (25:43.709)
It is horrendous. At one point, I flat lunged twice. Right after my last overdose, I was dead for three and a half minutes. And after they pulled me off the vent, I ran out of the hospital to avoid going to the insane unit at LSU. Across the highway barefoot, just barefoot, running across the highway. Like that's what drugs does to you. And I caught my first felony with my ex -husband and I got off probation. Felony number two,

Chuck LaFLange (26:02.84)
Wow. Yep. Yep.

Nicole Chatagnier (26:12.157)
is prescription fraud and I'm now I'm in an in shape YouTube. I'm not checking in, like I'm not doing any of that. And I'm living, running around with this guy without my kids and I want to get clean. Like I want to get clean so bad, but I can't get through the withdrawal. And I'm, you know, I'm hiding in almohas and buildings when the police are looking for me. Like I'm living this life that is so stressful and so disgusting.

And there's always day I stink, my body's rotten, I'm covered in infection and I decide that I'm gonna leave and go stay with a friend. And the guy that I was staying with is driving down the road, has stolen plates, gets pulled over and they take him in for like a child support warrant and all this stuff. Well, when I find that out, I text the landlord. We had been living in this building. It was...

No electricity or anything. It's like a slum apartment. It like that's where that all was that I was hiding in and I said, He's at catto. I'm not going back. His lease is in money I said i'm not going back, you know, whatever I throw my drugs out Well, they go to do a welfare check and he's been burglarizing I think I never say that word He's been simple burglary was a charge I tried to say burglarizing

Chuck LaFLange (27:17.372)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (27:35.324)
been what?

Chuck LaFLange (27:40.54)
burglarizing. Okay, okay, okay.

Nicole Chatagnier (27:40.89)
My son's rib. So they find some of the stolen goods in the thing. So they don't know where to find me, but they know where to find him. So they go to Caddo and he's like, she's an in -state fugitive and she did it all. Kind of deal with me. I'll tell you where she's at.

Chuck LaFLange (27:59.196)
Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (28:01.082)
So, was I innocent? No. Did I help him spend the money? Yes. But did I actually do it? No, we did that together. And it's December the 26th of 2016. I'm completely covered in MRSA. I'm three days, so like three days drug free, sicker than just getting sick. And I get mad and I start screaming at top of my lungs. I was like, I'm gonna need you to show up. I can't do this anymore.

Chuck LaFLange (28:07.676)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (28:21.66)
yeah, yeah, right.

Nicole Chatagnier (28:30.746)
I'm miserable do something I'm mad and my friend comes running down the hall and she says Nicole the house is surrounded and I said what and I Knew right then that my prayer had been answered and I'm not a super I wasn't a super religious person. I think religion gets in the way I think Christians might be the worst thing that ever happened to Jesus because all they do is judge

Chuck LaFLange (28:30.972)
You

Nicole Chatagnier (28:57.049)
and they talk down at you. I've been talked down to in addiction. It doesn't help. You know, and not to mention Jesus picked the outcast, but nobody wants to talk about that. So, I think we just don't. And I made a, like a, a choice right then that I was going to make this the best thing that ever happened to me. I had no idea that I was going to be sentenced to five years and I had no idea.

Chuck LaFLange (29:02.14)
Nope. Nope.

Chuck LaFLange (29:06.94)
Yeah. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (29:23.356)
Oof.

Nicole Chatagnier (29:25.017)
that I was gonna do two of them at five, but I only should have done nine months because it wasn't an aggravated crime, it wasn't a violent crime. And three days after my arrest, I went into kidney failure and they shackled me to a bed in the basement of the hospital.

Chuck LaFLange (29:32.252)
Yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (29:44.28)
And it was the hardest thing I ever went through. Knowing that, I mean, I was gonna have to sweat this out and, you know, now I'm incarcerated. I hadn't seen my kids in four years. I hadn't seen my parents in four years. And I'm scared, you know? My hair was all the way down to my bottom, matted. I hadn't shaved. I'm just...

Chuck LaFLange (29:48.636)
Kidding.

Nicole Chatagnier (30:13.047)
my teeth that were once perfect, my husband had busted this side really bad so they were all missing and the rest were running.

and I had to learn to love myself like that. Just broken like that. And it was super scary. And I found my strength in those moments. Those moments that I couldn't control my stomach or the vomiting. I found my strength in that. And people ask me how I stayed sober. That withdrawal made me solid.

Chuck LaFLange (30:52.092)
Yeah, yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (30:52.47)
There was beauty in that suffering and that's my story and I don't think we all recover the same way. And it's okay. But that's what worked for me. I needed to feel how dependent I had become on a drug and I had to... Right, I needed to understand it so I didn't go back and then I started breaking myself down. Like why don't I have self -esteem? Why don't I have self -worth?

Chuck LaFLange (31:08.251)
Killing.

Nicole Chatagnier (31:21.589)
Why did I do these things? And how did this happen to me? And I went through 45 days being shackled, you know, to that bed, just sicker than a dog with all these ideas that you can't come up with an answer in 45 days. But it was the start. Once they moved me into general population, in the beginning, the other inmates made fun of me because they thought I had AIDS.

Chuck LaFLange (31:37.244)
Yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (31:48.789)
I looked horrible. There was like over 70 of them. Just I mean it took almost a year to heal. I'm covered in scars and It was traumatic My father came to see me and brought pictures of my kids and he was like You know that moment? Where my dad was on the other side of that glass and I was in a jumpsuit and shackled and I

in his eyes like I had been his little girl, you know, the beauty pageant, the homecoming queen, you know, all his memories. And now I'm standing there like that and I've got sores of my arms. I've still got sores on my face. And he thought somebody was hurting me. Yeah, you know, and I was like, daddy, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be okay. Just don't leave me in here. And I'm sorry. And he never shamed me. He told me that he loved me.

And that he was going to help me. This was my thought and I grabbed onto it, you know, and I, it sounds crazy, but I couldn't wait to get to prison so I can hold my parents, you know, because while I was in maximum security, there's no, there's no touching, you know. And so like when they, when they shipped me to prison, like I could wait for that first visit so I could just hold my parents. They did bring my oldest one to see me. and he was 16 and it was,

Chuck LaFLange (33:01.884)
Yeah.

Of course, yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (33:19.54)
My youngest cat, he didn't even know who I was and I had to cope with that.

Chuck LaFLange (33:23.356)
Yeah, yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (33:24.499)
That's hard. He's like six at this point and he hasn't seen his mom in four years. So we didn't want the meeting to be in prison. He was a shot, you know what I mean? But Colby was 16 and of all things, that's how I found out that I was gonna be a grandmother. And I remember thinking, well, this is a bad country music video. I'm in prison.

Chuck LaFLange (33:37.884)
Yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (33:51.954)
My 16 year old's coming over here to tell me he's gonna get a dad. But, you know, he's still with his wife. They've been together 10 years and they just had their second baby, so I did something right. Yeah. Like, yeah, I did something right. But, no, he's still mad at me. I'm on my period. The first one that I got, he was like five minutes and then the second one was the abusive one and Brandon's my forever. But,

Chuck LaFLange (33:53.052)
Yeah, yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (34:01.628)
wow. Yeah, no kidding. Hey, holy cow. Yeah. That's that's unheard of. Geez. Yeah. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (34:16.956)
Yes, yes, of course, yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (34:21.394)
You know, I had to take the time and there's so much drugs in person. Like I hate it when people say, your prisons overtime don't count. They don't. If they're. Yes, it does because it was everywhere. You know what I mean? Everywhere in front of me. And I had to, you know, I was like, no, I don't want it. I pushed through and I had to.

Chuck LaFLange (34:32.188)
Yeah, right, right. Yeah, yeah, it does. Of course, yeah. Yeah.

And if ever, I'll interrupt again, if ever there was a time when a coping mechanism is needed, it's while you're in prison. So yeah, it counts, right? Absolutely it counts, right? There's all sorts of shit I don't want to feel and I've got some stuff hardwired into me on how to deal with things I don't want to feel. So yeah, that stuff counts if you don't succumb to those, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (34:56.304)
It definitely counts because I remember thinking.

Nicole Chatagnier (35:06.128)
It absolutely counts. And when you've been comatose as long as I was and you haven't seen your kids, you got to like every emotion you didn't want to feel for however long you were high is coming back full throttle. And trust me, you don't want to deal with it in prison. And I forced myself to do it. Forced myself.

Chuck LaFLange (35:13.852)
Yes.

Chuck LaFLange (35:18.972)
Yeah.

yeah, yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (35:27.484)
The best part about recovery is feeling all the feelings. The worst part about recovery is feeling all the feelings, right? So, yeah. Yeah, yeah, right. All right, let's have a cliche back and forth now, shall we? Yeah, yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (35:32.752)
feeling all the feelings and the only way to get through it is to go through it. The only way to finish it is to go through it. And it's scary. Yes, let's see that. It was something, you know, and I just remember like being scared, you know, and having to act like I wasn't like, because there's some there's some tough tips in there.

Chuck LaFLange (35:55.932)
Mm -hmm.

Nicole Chatagnier (35:59.983)
that I didn't want to make mad, you know, like y 'all leave me alone. Like I just, I'm trying to do my time and get out of here. I met some insanely amazing women in there, women that had been abused and killed their abuser. And you know, Louisiana doesn't have the proper laws for that. And I remember thinking I'm walking out here for all these women because I was this woman, you know, I've got the stories. And after about a month before my release, my,

Chuck LaFLange (36:03.036)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (36:08.604)
Of course.

Chuck LaFLange (36:12.348)
Right.

Yeah. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (36:22.716)
Mm -hmm.

Nicole Chatagnier (36:29.454)
I called my mom and she was like, hey listen, your aunt met this lady in Mississippi, now we're in Louisiana, and we've made arrangements for you to go to a women's shelter in Alexandria, Louisiana. Now that does not make me happy. I am mad. I've been in prison for two years and y 'all are sending me to a women's shelter? Y 'all got me messed up. I want to go home. But it just goes down to trust in the process.

Chuck LaFLange (36:38.14)
Okay.

Chuck LaFLange (36:44.38)
Ha ha ha ha.

Chuck LaFLange (36:51.676)
Ha ha ha ha.

Nicole Chatagnier (36:57.102)
And when you don't want, when you're uncomfortable is when you're gonna grow. So I thought, I'm not gonna fight it. I've got my, you know, my kids are back in my life. My family's back in my life. I've got to be accountable. And that might not look like, you know, what I want. So I'm gonna trust the process. And the woman that my aunt may met that day is my mother.

Chuck LaFLange (37:07.868)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (37:21.436)
okay. Okay. So.

Nicole Chatagnier (37:24.173)
she, it was, it was a God thing. and I got out of prison and then got baptized. She was in the water with me. And then two days later met her son and, Brandon and me, he has been clean for almost a year off a mess. His story is totally different than mine. He is banging meth and, and, and.

Chuck LaFLange (37:37.692)
Yeah. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (37:50.492)
them.

Nicole Chatagnier (37:54.316)
wild crazy sex and with all these crazy people. My addiction is like alone getting beat. I mean, it's totally opposite. And we met each other and it just worked. And you know, they say that if you're in recovery, you shouldn't date somebody else in recovery, but he had the same amount of clean time as me. And it wasn't like it was brand new. And we decided to instantly get married and everybody thought we were nuts. They were like, here we go.

Chuck LaFLange (38:03.772)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (38:14.748)
Yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (38:24.076)
Here we go. You know, and we, yeah, and we, we're like, everybody's all we're ready, nobody's for, and we did it anyway. And my husband had a dream. His big dream is to do like a actual huge rehab or willing we ever get the funding for that. But he wanted to do sober living. And that's what we've been doing for the last.

Chuck LaFLange (38:25.436)
Yeah. I can imagine. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (38:47.932)
Hmm?

Nicole Chatagnier (38:51.755)
four and a half years. My husband is in the streets, yeah. My husband's in the streets helping people and my media does help, yeah, help support it. We're both published authors. Together we make an insanely good team because I'm opiate, congenital, and he's meth. And so like we understand the full, just the big picture of everything. We're both only children and we were both spoiled. And we,

Chuck LaFLange (38:53.244)
wow.

Chuck LaFLange (38:57.916)
wonderful.

Chuck LaFLange (39:09.116)
Yeah, yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (39:20.362)
believe that so many people in addiction don't have the foundation or their families giving up on them and throwing them out. Our family didn't do that to us. So we try to give back and help the people who don't have the family or the family don't want anything to do with them anymore. And that's what we're doing.

Chuck LaFLange (39:36.86)
Yes, that warms my heart. You are my people, for sure.

Nicole Chatagnier (39:42.826)
Yes, and he's it's tough, you know, like it's tough because with addiction there is so much failure because it's such a strong disease that so many people don't make it and so we're constantly having to deal with relapses and you want to talk about break your heart? Chocolate to somebody down the street because they failed a drug test and they're out of chances. It's miserable.

Chuck LaFLange (39:56.252)
Mm -hmm.

Chuck LaFLange (40:10.268)
Yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (40:11.593)
But we can't enable and we do call them, call other people to help and bring them in. But there's things time, it's horrible. Like to the point to where it hurts so bad. It's a hard job. Because the idea of somebody not having a place to sleep at night because we put them out is, it's hard. You gotta be tough. You gotta know when to say, no, you're not ready or okay, we're gonna try different avenues.

Chuck LaFLange (40:23.612)
I can only imagine. Yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (40:41.512)
And it's been strenuous, but worth it. Because when you see somebody come through that darkness and they're getting their life back, you're so proud of them that that moment gets us to the next. Right. And my, like, with everything that I've been through, I like to tell people, like, don't give up because I was a hopeless junkie. I was the one.

Chuck LaFLange (40:56.028)
Chilling, right? Yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (41:09.416)
that when people saw it in public, it was noticeable. I looked like garbage. And now when people find out I've been in prison, I was an addict, they're like, wait, she probably took two pills. Like, no. You know, because you can rebuild your life, you know? And I love seeing people, yeah, all of us when we rebuild and people don't realize we've been an addiction, it's, yes, you know what I mean? Because we're making good choices and it's like a good thing. But,

Chuck LaFLange (41:23.1)
Yeah. Yeah.

Absolutely, absolutely you can, yes.

Chuck LaFLange (41:34.908)
Yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (41:39.24)
Because I was so serious about recovering a few years back I started getting sick and I'm in more pain than I think I've ever been in my life and it's it's hard going through this, you know, I mean because I don't have opiates on the option for me and My They finally have found what's wrong with me. I've got Raynaud's disease and rheumatoid arthritis. They thought it was multiple sclerosis but

Chuck LaFLange (41:55.548)
Okay.

Chuck LaFLange (42:06.812)
What's Raynard's disease? Sorry if that's...

Nicole Chatagnier (42:08.966)
Raynaud's is, I wish, can you see my hands right now? They're a little, can you see the spots? Those turned completely black. So the circulation will not go into my hands. Like literally all my blood will stay in my torso and my arms and legs start to turn purple. And it's very painful. And then not to mention the rheumatoid arthritis. And when you hear rheumatoid arthritis, you don't realize that's not just arthritis.

Chuck LaFLange (42:12.668)
I can see them, yeah. Yeah.

Not really, no. No. okay.

Chuck LaFLange (42:29.116)
wow.

Chuck LaFLange (42:34.812)
yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (42:38.662)
That is affecting your lungs, your heart, fatigue. I mean, it's a serious disease. They didn't do it justice by putting arthritis in the name. And my husband, like I went from the woman that was so broken and beaten. This man has been with me like through it all. He takes care of me. He tells me I'm beautiful at my ugly. I mean, at my ugliest points. You know what I mean? And I fell in love with him.

Chuck LaFLange (42:41.692)
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (43:08.134)
When I asked him one night, I said, what's your favorite thing about me? And he said, your scars.

Chuck LaFLange (43:14.14)
oof oof oof oof haha

Nicole Chatagnier (43:16.806)
Nobody had ever told me that way. I had been, I had, yes. I mean, I had just been, nobody had ever seen my worst, you know? Like nobody had ever seen me. And when he said that, I was like, this is the right person, you know? And like, I had to overcome a lot. I had all my teeth pulled out, wide awake and didn't take any meds. That's how serious I am about my recovery. I could even talk about having dentures.

Chuck LaFLange (43:20.028)
I would marry him fast. Jeez.

Chuck LaFLange (43:30.268)
Yeah. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (43:41.628)
Oof.

Nicole Chatagnier (43:46.596)
few years back because it embarrasses me but it's a part of my recovery. I'm put together the best that I can be and I've just overcome so much and being able to just be me and talk about what is wrong with me is huge for me that I don't have to pretend to be perfect and that because that was my problem.

Chuck LaFLange (43:51.612)
Yeah. Yep.

Chuck LaFLange (44:10.204)
Yeah. Yes.

Nicole Chatagnier (44:13.731)
And I did learn in therapy for years that self -esteem is built when you're a child and you complete your task on your own and you know you can do it. I never did that. I had never even watched the load of clothes at 18 when I moved away for college. But everything had been done for me. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (44:28.38)
Wow. Wow. Very different life. I'll tell you a quick funny. Seven years old family supper, I stand up on my chair and tell the family that laundry is women's work. Right. So guess who showed me how to do my own laundry the next day? It wasn't mom. It was dad. Very, very different.

Nicole Chatagnier (44:44.387)
Yeah. Right.

right exactly it it i just was yeah i was super super spoiled and it doesn't like i tell people all the time you can't spoil your kids right where you're gonna end up with me like i got three felonies i was married to this famous criminal you don't want to meet that virgin of me like this is the real me and you don't want to know what it took to get me here but me it's just

Chuck LaFLange (45:04.508)
Ha ha ha.

Chuck LaFLange (45:08.412)
Yeah.

Hahaha!

Nicole Chatagnier (45:17.986)
Life is crazy and if somebody would have told me when I was sitting in prison that today I would be helping other people. You know my media blew up not by playing that was not I was born during 2020 like I'm literally a middle -aged woman like why would I you know it just happened and I use it for my ability. I mean like the whole thing is like no I didn't do it like that. I'm like my you know here it is I'm going through menopause let's get TikTok famous. No.

Chuck LaFLange (45:32.252)
Hehehehehe

Nicole Chatagnier (45:47.553)
That's not how that happened, but I just wanted to use my story to help other people and I think it's important. And I think if, because we all recover differently, I think if all of us like got together and helped everybody, it would be so much better for it. And that's why my husband and I are kind of controversial because we don't think there's just one way to recover. And a lot of people get stuck in that.

Chuck LaFLange (46:05.916)
Absolutely.

Nicole Chatagnier (46:15.873)
my way is the only way and we just we don't believe that.

Chuck LaFLange (46:17.756)
yeah, I've Yeah, it is. It is. I'm, I'm very much of the same mind as you are. I whatever whatever's working for you is exactly the right path. Right? Just who am I to say, right? So I am. I was shamed out of the rooms. I know, I chose to find a resentment based on shame. After my first 30 days I'd ever had in my life was

Nicole Chatagnier (46:28.833)
Exactly. Exactly.

Chuck LaFLange (46:45.308)
just a couple, two and a half years ago or so now, something like that, ever. I was so proud of it. And then a few days later, I slipped. And I still, the idea of going back to zero and having to face all those people took that from what would have been a day and a half and turned it into 10 months. Right? Because of that, that, that thing. And that's, that's me, right? That wasn't them that did that to me. That was how I chose to take it. I found a resentment and I ran with it. Let's be honest, right? But it was the shame of going back that I held onto.

Nicole Chatagnier (47:00.833)
Yes.

Nicole Chatagnier (47:14.209)
Mm -hmm.

Chuck LaFLange (47:14.812)
of having to go back to zero. And that's to this day why I don't consider myself a 12 -stepper. I think it's great for so many people. And here's the thing, whatever you think about 12 steps, when you first get into recovery, when you're first trying to get sober and you need that fellowship, there's just no easier, better place to find it. If it works for you, great, and you run with it. If it doesn't, then you find another path. But whatever you think of it, the fellowship is irreplaceable in my mind.

Nicole Chatagnier (47:35.743)
grade.

Chuck LaFLange (47:44.38)
It's just, it's the easiest place to find it, right? You know, you know.

Nicole Chatagnier (47:47.135)
I agree and like perfect example like I watch our guys that are newly sober do that and you're 100 % correct but then you've got my story. I did two years in prison. So coming out of prison I was forced to yeah in the women's shelter I was forced to go to meetings and I was it did not it was suppressing for me like I was ready to like get life like I've been sitting in prison for two years like I want

Chuck LaFLange (48:00.796)
Yeah, so that would have been all 12 step, no? Yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (48:16.607)
You know what I mean? Like I wasn't struggling. I wasn't struggling because prison scared all that mess out of me. Like I wasn't going back. I ain't built like that. it's just like, I was ready to live my life and so it just didn't work for me and forcing me to do it. It made me angry, you know, but in the beginning, I definitely, definitely would have needed that. And I see it benefit our gods, but it just.

Chuck LaFLange (48:18.136)
I do. Yeah. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (48:24.188)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (48:42.044)
Of course, of course.

Nicole Chatagnier (48:44.447)
We're all different and I'd set for two years, you know, and it was like, no, like, and I think that's in the right.

Chuck LaFLange (48:47.708)
Yeah. No, yeah. And like you said, all different, right? Which, if we circle back to the very beginning of the episode, I said, there are some language that you use in a TikTok. Yes, it was you said, I consider myself recovered. It was like, all right. So that that's going against the grade of that of that world as well. Right. So of even just saying that because right. And very recently, it's a new friend that I met here in Thailand. I was telling about a story that had happened when I was married, like 10 years ago and.

Nicole Chatagnier (48:56.447)
Get it.

Nicole Chatagnier (49:00.252)
Yes.

Nicole Chatagnier (49:06.492)
Exactly.

Chuck LaFLange (49:17.596)
I was helping my fiance get divorced from her second husband. I should have seen that coming. Anyway. And it was I was gonna have to sell my race car to pay for lawyers. She's like a race car. You didn't have money. You're a drug addict. And that's why right there, right? I don't want to be that person to everybody I meet for the rest of my life. And I don't I'm not going to identify as an addict. I've only got 19 months in now, 19 months from but

To me, that's not how I'm going to identify. I'm a survivor of addiction, all these different things that you want to call it, but I personally will not identify as a drug addict for the rest of my life. It's just not something I will do.

Nicole Chatagnier (49:50.748)
I refuse.

Nicole Chatagnier (50:00.06)
I'm definitely not going to. There's also so much power in your words. Like, and this is the example that I give when I offend somebody by saying I'm recovered. It's not meant to offend anybody. It's my personal opinion. But when you go through cancer treatment and you get in remission and you ring the bell, you no longer identify as a cancer patient. You no longer say I have cancer.

Chuck LaFLange (50:05.436)
Hmm.

Chuck LaFLange (50:11.42)
bit. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (50:27.644)
Yes, yes, my, my co host on the weekend ramble episodes of our show is a psychiatrist. And she has said almost word for word, what you just said, right? She has a real hard like, she takes exception to people calling themselves addict, right? And it's like, well, people can call themselves whatever they want. We typically don't even use the word addict when referring to anybody on the show now these these days. So right when referring to another person because right? Yeah, for that exact reason, right?

Nicole Chatagnier (50:30.3)
But.

Nicole Chatagnier (50:43.546)
Yep, they did.

Chuck LaFLange (50:57.424)
Yeah, you wouldn't identify, you wouldn't refer to your loved one as, this is my cancer patient. This is, you know, I have a cancer patient for a brother or, but you know what I mean? Like it's, there's something else long before their disease, right? So, right.

Nicole Chatagnier (51:05.594)
No.

Yeah, I mean it Right and I also don't walk up to people and give them my DOC number Because it doesn't matter anymore because I'm not an inmate anymore like there's a million ways you can look at it and for me like especially the way my psychology is if I'm gonna sit there and say I'm an addict and all this like it's gonna depress me like that I have to shut the book and move on like PTSD was a big part of my life. I have finally gotten past

Chuck LaFLange (51:16.092)
Yeah. No.

Chuck LaFLange (51:35.068)
Yes.

Nicole Chatagnier (51:38.042)
It took a lot of work, but I have gotten past it and I'm thankful for it.

Chuck LaFLange (51:45.02)
Did you go to trauma specific therapy or what did you do there?

Nicole Chatagnier (51:49.146)
I have a psychiatrist and a Christian counselor, but my psychiatrist has worked with me like heavy. I'm come to find out I'm like super neurotic. I didn't know that. I've been that way my whole life. You know how they get to know you? He's like, has anybody ever told you you're severely neurotic? And I'm like, I break out neurotic eyes and I have. I remember being like, since I was little bitty, I'll break out in these like red watches. And the doctor said it was neurotic eyes when I was a kid.

Chuck LaFLange (51:56.7)
Okay.

Chuck LaFLange (52:10.812)
Yes.

Nicole Chatagnier (52:18.712)
But I worry about prep is so stupid and I'm just really neurotic. So you take that and put it with abuse. Like I'm not kidding. The first three years of my sobriety, I was like, like, it's just trembling. And then I was thinking about something that got worse. And it was like, when is this going to stop? Nicole get a grip. And I finally got to the point to where I'm okay. But it took some time and it was a lot of work.

Chuck LaFLange (52:19.196)
Ha ha ha.

Chuck LaFLange (52:32.604)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Chuck LaFLange (52:42.076)
Not kidding.

Chuck LaFLange (52:48.732)
So.

If we can move now to you've got the recovery area, sober living, how many beds? How many beds you got going on there?

Nicole Chatagnier (52:57.911)
12 and we are trying we at one point we had three houses so it was like 38 beds total I think because one house was really large and then COVID happened and we went back down to one but it's easier to work with just the one house and we really want to open up a rehab like and my husband has big dreams like he thinks like on the hundred scale and I'm thinking that is a lot of people Brandon.

Chuck LaFLange (52:59.356)
Okay.

Chuck LaFLange (53:05.308)
Wow.

Chuck LaFLange (53:13.564)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (53:23.548)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (53:28.343)
But, like, not everyone's gonna be able to go home. So, that's why, if we could get the funding, then he believes with his whole heart that we will one day. I think when I first went viral, he thought that was the answer, and I was like, don't put that on me. Because, it's just a, you know, it's just a viral, it doesn't mean anything. But, I believe that we'll get there one day, because we have the want to help people, you know, it's just...

Chuck LaFLange (53:43.516)
Yeah. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (53:56.796)
Yeah, yeah. Good choices and all that. Yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (53:57.878)
We don't have the finances and that is expensive. Like even the sober living house, he runs, we do lawn scaping and lawn and landscaping. And my husband works like you, I mean, he works himself to the bone and we're paying, you know, sober living stuff because they do pay a little bit of a fee once they get on their feet, you know, but it's not enough to cover everything. People don't get that. Like it's, but we believe in what we're doing. And I like,

Chuck LaFLange (54:03.868)
yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (54:22.3)
Of course, yeah.

Wow, that's awesome.

Nicole Chatagnier (54:26.709)
I believe in him, I believe in my husband, I think he can handle more than I can. I was the type of addict that I was just so manipulative and you know what I mean? Sometimes I'm looking at somebody and I'm like, you're lying to me. I know you're lying to me. And my husband's not buying it. I'm like, you can't do this to me. I can deal with it. I hate it.

Chuck LaFLange (54:31.056)
you

Chuck LaFLange (54:48.764)
hahahaha

you

Nicole Chatagnier (54:54.133)
I believe that he can handle it and I'm gonna be his backbone and I'm gonna do what I can to help my husband. His heart is really big.

Chuck LaFLange (54:59.772)
Mm -hmm.

That's awesome. And what's this? What's this going on about books? You got books, you published authors, both of you.

Nicole Chatagnier (55:08.245)
We yes, I have I'm victorious my path to redemption. I don't know if you can see that That's my mugshot. That's pretty huh? Yeah So pretty yeah No No, it's so bad. Anyway, this Victoria's my path to redemption and his is my crystal romance.

Chuck LaFLange (55:14.396)
Okay. I can. Holy cow. Wow. Wow. You would never see. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (55:32.956)
My crystal romance. Okay. Okay. Yep.

Nicole Chatagnier (55:34.516)
Yeah, both you can get on Amazon. We do have some personal copies. And we were working on getting one link. My sniff feed will bring you to all that. I can send you the link. It's got all my media in it. Yes.

Chuck LaFLange (55:43.836)
Okay, okay. Well, and of course, well, we'll have that on your bio page on on here as well. Right. So that makes it nice and easy for everybody. Right. But that's amazing. It's amazing. You got a hell of a story. You do you do. And a unique one. I've heard I've heard a lot of stories, Nicole, a lot, right? Because of course, doing what I do. This is Episode 244, I think. I've never heard one like yours.

Nicole Chatagnier (55:55.539)
I do and I want to tell you.

Nicole Chatagnier (56:12.115)
It's different. I haven't met anybody else who's had their kneecap amputated either. They cut it out. I don't think I told you that. The last operation, they removed it completely.

Chuck LaFLange (56:17.212)
No, no, no, you didn't. So you just got like a straight leg now because like no knee.

Nicole Chatagnier (56:25.939)
No, it bends. It bends, but you can see the difference. It's like totally flat. There's no patella there. See the difference? It's weird. I had to learn to walk without it. I will fall over. I tell people who know me, I've been standing on one leg for 20 years now. I'm not high. I just fell over. I realized it.

Chuck LaFLange (56:29.148)
okay. Yeah.

Okay. Okay. Yeah, I see it. I see it. Yeah. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (56:48.624)
Really, I'm not. I'm not. I promise. Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole Chatagnier (56:54.995)
I'll fall over several times a day. I wanted to personally thank you for letting me tell the positive side. So many people want the gore and I just wanted to personally thank you.

Chuck LaFLange (57:09.372)
no, it's.

Chuck LaFLange (57:13.948)
No, no, no to the gore no to the gore and you know what's funny about that you project what you reflect so Did these all these cliches and these little golden nuggets you get in recovery and one of the things that was told to me early on Was that I'll get to a point where it won't be about the addiction. It'll be about the recovery and I said I know Just like I said I know to all the other little cliches and golden nuggets and pieces of you know Wisdom that were that were said to me in my early days

I know, I know, I know, but do you? And then one day, things, there's this, there's this metaphoric fence that you cross over into recovery from addiction. It's not about not using anymore. It's about growing. And, and I can tell you that was the day that I found out I could come to Thailand. I can just end it was like, instantly, the show changed, everything changed. My life was getting better. I was feeling better.

And all of a sudden, it was like, okay, maybe the audience doesn't want to hear all this blood and guts. Maybe the audience does want to hear about the message rather than the mess. Maybe that's where the show needs to go and it's best moves I've ever made. The show is, it just continues to multiply in growth and it's amazing the things that are happening with it. And it was because I was starting to like what I was seeing and you project what you reflect and I just, I think that's where it came from, right? And now,

Nicole Chatagnier (58:30.641)
right?

Chuck LaFLange (58:40.508)
Right? That's typically what we do is we sit around talking about what's working, what's not working, you know, what's pissing us off. You know, we do a lot of that. You know.

Nicole Chatagnier (58:46.699)
Right and like my story is my story is very boring. You know, there's a lot of my books and so people want that and they they want to hear that but like I had gotten to the point where I'm like I'm ready to like of course I've got to go over some of it but there's there's so much positive stuff going on in my life like I have this medical condition and I'm still walking a mile every day and I

Chuck LaFLange (59:05.5)
Of course you do.

Nicole Chatagnier (59:14.862)
the foundation of who I am was born out of prison in my recovery and I use that for everything in my life and you know I've built self -esteem and I've done all these things and I did it out of just ruins and there's strength to be found there and I think that people need to hear more of that they need to see the message and leave the mess and I think it's beautiful so thank you.

Chuck LaFLange (59:20.348)
course.

Chuck LaFLange (59:32.124)
kidding, eh?

Chuck LaFLange (59:42.556)
Absolutely. You're welcome. You're welcome. Well, that brings us to my favorite part of the show. That's the Daily Gratitudes. So what you got for us today, Nicole?

Nicole Chatagnier (59:54.414)
Daily gratitude. I am thankful, literally, for everything that happened to me that was bad, because it makes me appreciate even the little stuff. And that's how I look at life. I'm thankful for my freedom. I'm thankful that I can walk, even though sometimes it hurts. I'm thankful for my husband.

who treats me wonderful and my kids. But I'm thankful for me because I know that I can get through anything. And that's just, that's the perspective I take on life. Like you can have a condition or the condition can have you. And I'm not gonna let a condition have me. I'm gonna be positive and I'm gonna be thankful for everything in my life. And the outcome of that is up to me.

So I'm thankful for that perspective.

Chuck LaFLange (01:00:52.284)
Absolutely.

It's wonderful. I like that. Myself, I am thankful for my dumbass dog here. He's always at my feet, you know. His new name is get the fuck out of my way. But. But, you know.

Nicole Chatagnier (01:01:02.572)
That's what a big old hermit did.

Nicole Chatagnier (01:01:09.292)
Yeah. That's it. Yeah. I can just... I would have let mine in here, but he's a principle dog, and you would have thought I had a pig. He snorts. So loud. Yeah. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (01:01:19.708)
one of them, eh? One of them. Adorable, but kind of annoying at the same time. I'm also thankful that David's connected us. This has been an absolutely wonderful conversation, and I'm very, very grateful for you for making the time. I'm also grateful to every single person who continues to like, comment, share, do the things, talk about the show. Anytime you do any one of these things, you're getting me a little bit closer to living my best life. My best life is to make a humble living spreading the message. And the message is this.

Nicole Chatagnier (01:01:32.204)
care.

Chuck LaFLange (01:01:47.58)
If you are in active addiction right now, today could be the day. Today could be the day that you start a lifelong journey. Reach out to a friend, reach out to a family member, go to church, pray, go to a meeting, call into detox, I don't care. Do whatever it is you gotta do to get that journey started. It's so much better than the alternative. If you have a loved one who's suffering an addiction right now, just taking the time to listen to our show, you just take one more minute of your day and text that person, let them know they're loved. Use the words.

Nicole Chatagnier (01:02:13.484)
You are loved!

Chuck LaFLange (01:02:17.884)
Use the words.

Nicole Chatagnier (01:02:19.37)
You are loved. I said it, it cut out.

Chuck LaFLange (01:02:22.012)
that little glimmer of hope just might be the thing that brings them back. I didn't hear you.