0:00

On a podcast and didn't delete it.

Oh so the cool I'll actually tell you about this when we get all right so it's it's going live as we speak so within a few minutes it should be on it'll be on the all the on the platforms so.

How do we monitor those chats?

0:16

Like, how do we?

Yeah.

So it comes up on my end and I have to manually add it to so I can click on each comment and add it to the screen.

Oh, OK.

OK.

Well, there's two of you there.

So between the two of you, I'm sure you can sort that.

Out.

Exactly.

Pull up it on my phones.

0:33

Yeah you can So like right now we just Facebook notified me that you that we're we're you you're Ashley Dawson is live.

So.

No shit.

Hey, look at that.

We're live.

It's happening.

We got three Can you see the, can you see the counter up at top and see how many people are on?

No.

Oh no.

0:49

OK.

Just me, Hey.

Hey, we're the only three that are on.

I got a question.

Yeah.

Like, where are you guys from?

We're, we're 10:00.

That's four hours ahead of me.

No, 9:00.

So you're Eastern?

Yeah, yeah, We're New York.

1:06

New York, NY Western New York.

Like horse heads, You know horse heads New York is.

Yep, I know.

I know where that's.

At one of the few places I've been.

It's about a.

It's about an hour from here an.

Hour and a half from the Canadian border.

Yeah, OK.

I'm like, literally.

I don't know, ten.

1:22

Well, wait, miles. 7 miles to the border.

Literally where you are.

You literally, like, hit a golf ball or not.

She hit a golf.

Ball and I'm a ball.

I tried to go to Canada once.

I don't know.

I'm not allowed.

You tried to go to Canada.

What happened?

1:38

I got.

Detained.

It was actually our first date.

Our first date was to go to Canada.

She got detained at the border.

Wow, it just you got detained at the border.

Not just like they didn't let you through, but they detained you because there's a big difference there.

She walked in front, she walked in front.

1:54

We were walking by and she walked in front of me.

And then before I'm able to go through, next thing I know, I see them walking her across to the other building and I'm sitting here like, what the hell do I do?

I lucked out though, because their systems were all down.

Their systems were completely shut down after the.

2:10

Time to figure.

Things out because I have a felony that doesn't allow me to go into Canada for five years.

Oh, so you're hoping just to kind of get the the pass and not have to?

Yeah.

So did you did you know this going into a chart, or was that like total fucking news to you?

2:25

Like?

I I knew, but I I knew, but I didn't know, like if didn't she was going to be able to go in or not.

Didn't OK sure yet.

Yeah.

What's going on?

I've been going for like 20 years myself.

I would love.

Just got access.

Listen, I would love to go, but we got what's going on everybody.

2:45

We got a couple people in the chat.

We got we.

Got in.

The chat Logan Schultz.

Logan, my man.

Logan.

Sorry if I mispronounce it Sean or Shan G Burnes.

Oh, Shan Burnes.

Yes, so.

She's actually, she is.

3:02

On a proper screen, Doctor Lisa, Right.

OK, Shan went to school with Doctor Lisa.

She was the one that we did that episode.

I did a recovery episode with her.

Then she came on to a ramble and we talked about you never know what's going on in somebody else's mind.

You don't know what you don't know because her at least had gone to school together.

3:19

Both had very similar experiences mentally.

Neither one of them had any idea the other person felt that way.

So when she came on it was a really great episode.

It just to remind ourselves that you just don't know, right.

You know, you know to to one the other look like they had their shit together and that you know, they were, they were, you know, sound and all that and it's not the way things are, right.

3:39

So that was a really great episode.

And Logan's my man.

He's from Saskatchewan.

He's out in Swift Current.

Hey Logan, love you bro.

He's.

We will be jumping into this here in a couple of minutes.

We're just given opportunity for people to hop on.

Thank you so much for hopping on with us.

3:56

This is really cool.

Me and me and Chuck, we we linked up one day to do an episode and we've talked every day since, so.

Yeah, right.

It's been kind of crazy that way.

We've actually, we we vibe very, very well today.

So this was live on.

4:11

Our So I got to tell you a quick story because it's it's small talk shit before we're actually recording, you know Men in Black.

I was telling Ryan this earlier, you know Men in Black, the scene where he's like everyone's trying to figure out how to fill out the form in those stupid egg chairs and he like reaches out and he grabs his coffee table and he's like he's all obnoxious with it.

4:29

I spent two days trying to figure out how to get more comfortable because I'm in Thailand.

The fucking chairs in my room are for tall people.

They're too tall for I'm a six foot dude and my fucking legs are dangling like a Midget on a bar stool, right So And it's uncomfortable.

4:45

I'm like, I gotta get this more comfortable for two days.

I got laptop, my old shitty laptop.

I'm like, I got the big screen over by the bed figuring out how I could do all this.

I'm like and it's just like, fuck man, I gotta do better.

And I look behind me, I'm like 4 feet, 4 feet behind me there's a sofa.

All I got to do is drag that bitch over here and I'm like, now I'm, I'm like gangster, right?

5:03

I'm on a podcast and I look, I I got to say, I look gangsters.

Fuck, right?

Now well, nobody clocks the speed of common sense.

I'm just happy you showed up, right?

There you go, right?

Maybe not as early as I wanted it to, but like, you should have seen the the legs I had borrowed, HDMI cords.

5:22

I got this crazy pod track audio interface thing so I could use it with all your mics.

Oh my God.

Like it's just been insane for two days and all I had to do was drag fucking couch for feet across the floor.

That's not even carpet.

It's like a tile floor.

So it's like really easy to drag a couch across 4 feet, right?

So who the fuck?

If if you guys are tuning in with us, please drop a comment, let us know where you are watching from.

5:42

We are streaming to four different platforms right now as we speak.

So if you're coming from the Ashes to Awesome Page and Chuck Lafranche, thank you so much.

If you're coming from my personal page, Jared Blaine or The Blacklist podcast, thank you.

Just drop a comment, let us know where you're from and we.

5:58

Are you ready to get into it, Chuck?

I'm.

Ready to get into it?

Program ready, Ryan?

Oh.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

All right.

We going to be right back.

We're going to be back right after this quick little intro.

Which is totally lot unfolds.

Friday nights the two powerful podcast merged.

6:14

Enter Black Ash Radio, your new weekend ritual for Ashes to Awesome.

It's The Blacklist podcast for live, in depth discussions.

Every Friday night we ignite conversations on addiction and recovery, moving beyond personal tales to tackle the pivotal issues head on.

It's a space for listeners to gain insights, challenge stigmas and engage with topics that spark transformation.

6:34

Set your reminders for Black Ash Radio, the place where meaningful dialogue meets the power of change as the week winds down.

Yeah.

Good job, Chuck.

Black Ash Radio.

That was awesome.

I thought so.

6:50

I I was pretty proud of.

That like action movie.

Commentator Yeah, it was.

It was really cool because like, me and Chuck went back and forth for a hot minute on on names.

Yeah, we did.

Yeah.

We did, yeah.

We went back this whole.

Process fucking set up chat CPT involved and like a narrowing down short list process and and then he's like black gosh radio.

7:13

I was like, OK.

He'll say it that awesome.

But I, you know, whatever.

I was like, let's combine, let's combine the name.

OK, let's figure it out and it here we go.

So thank you guys.

What's going on?

Thank you so much for tuning in with us today, man.

We got a good topic today.

How how long do we identify as addicts?

7:30

Right, we got.

That's a hot button thing, man.

It's a hot button thing.

I'm I'm, I'm interested to see where this plays out.

I kind of have an idea where everybody's at with it.

I don't know if you all do or not.

So for me, it's like and and and, you know, myself good in my mind.

7:46

There's four different places on the spectrum here as far as I know.

Though, Brianna, you're a bit of a mystery, but I think I have an idea where you fall in.

So I'm curious.

I'm curious.

Sorry to cut you off there, Jerry didn't mean to do that.

No, no, no.

I think it's cool.

8:02

It's really cool because everybody, there's everyone.

A lot of people are divided on on the board.

So if you if anybody that's in the comments, let us know your your feedback.

But you know what?

Let me Who wants to go first?

Do you want to go first, Ryan?

8:17

Or do you want to go first, Chuck?

Because of I I want Ryan to go first on this one.

I think, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So let's how about we do this?

Brother, special guest, we put him.

On how about we do this 30 seconds each on how we where we're at with it just so we don't go, you know, so we give each other.

8:35

A Oh, we.

Get.

OK, you know what I mean?

And then then we can get into a conversation, but just so we can get our our own kind of, you know, are bars set somewhere on the on the on?

The scale of things, 30 seconds.

Yeah, just you're.

Not you don't have to explain your position, You just have to say what your position is.

8:51

Brother, OK, I know.

OK, so OK, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna go 10.

Seconds 'cause it's gonna go.

A minute.

Honestly, it's like, OK, I think, I think you when you learn how to water ski, you know they teach you first rule is when you fall, let go of the rope, right?

9:08

And so it has a lot of value to hold the rope when you're originally water skiing, but then when you fall it's no more value anymore.

And so the way I look at this is like if there's value to identifying in that way, then use that value and to but assess you have to, we have to be in constant assessment of our state of mind, our consciousness, what we're attaching to.

9:32

And so at some point, I know you know, like personally, that title started to become a a corrosive element instead of an empowering element.

And it and it what I found is it brought a ceiling to my potential which my my potential should never have a ceiling.

9:49

It doesn't.

It goes as far as I can understand the universe itself.

That's my potential.

So at some point I needed to let go of that along this, you know, my journey here.

And it had to do with choice.

It had to do with freedom.

It had to do with really laying a a, a, a flag in my own life, in my own existence, instead of being a spectator like I was for however many years of just watching this animalistic guy go through life and really not absorbing what life truly is and what it brings to us and and like the gifts of it.

10:21

And I like, I like, you know, I, my mentor had told me.

We'll we'll get back to you.

We went way over 30 seconds.

So I know my brother.

I know my Ryan.

I should say to to anybody who's paying attention right now and and you know what before I say my 30 seconds I'm going to say Ryan and ice history is an is an interesting one.

10:43

We were grade school buddies.

We thickest season when we were kids, eh?

Right.

Like, fuck.

Whether we were stashing nudie mags or trying to round up shopping carts so we could take the corners or or whatever, right?

You know what I mean?

Like we were.

Thinking through the big school.

My family moved out of town.

10:59

His family moved out of the province.

Time does what it does.

It took its toll on on that relationship and we kind of grew apart.

Well, we did grow apart better part of 25 years, eh?

I mean, I think once or twice there's some communication in there through the podcast, through social media being what it is.

11:15

We reconnect back in the very early days of the show.

And now Ryan's relationship is one of the most important ones I have with another human being, right?

Without a shadow of a doubt, both both in the show and and off the show, right.

So we have a lot of history.

I respect Ryan's opinion very much.

11:30

That said, the reason I had to say all of that, sometimes you got to tell the motherfucker to.

Shut up.

You used your 30 seconds up a long time ago.

OK, yeah, yeah, you know what?

And and.

I'm I wasn't explaining my position.

I wasn't.

I'm a moderate.

I could easily be swayed to Ryan's full tilt position.

11:48

I could also, with a bit more work, be swayed to identifying as a long time.

So that's my position in way less than 30 seconds.

Yeah, go.

I will let the lovely lady go.

Go ahead.

I'm chewing the Starburst right now.

So mine's mine's going to be a lot less than 30 seconds too.

12:05

So honestly, for me personally, again these this is each of our own personal perceptions.

I believe that we always identify as an addict, at least for me.

OK, I'm not going to speak for anyone else, but for me, I believe that I will always identify as an addict.

It's just choosing to whether I'm going to feed that or not every single day.

12:24

So that that's where I stand.

Fair enough.

And Brianna, where where are you at with this?

I agree.

Once an addict, always an addict.

But with exploring who we are, we can learn coping skills where we go from abusing stuff, where we can just use it.

12:43

Oh, OK, there's a position.

I was.

Not she's interesting.

She's got an interesting one.

No, I like that.

So you feel for.

We'll use alcohol as an example for this.

An alcoholic can someday go back to having a drink.

If or is it possible for an alcoholic to go back?

12:59

And yes.

I was an alcoholic.

Now where?

Your opinion's at Yeah, OK.

You know, I was an alcoholic and him and I, you know, we went out to eat one night.

I had one drink and that was.

It there's a ton of scientific proof behind that, it's an.

13:14

Addiction goes for everything in our lives.

You know, we're obviously we're addictive.

You know, we're addicts.

And it doesn't have to be in every single aspect.

Of our lives.

It doesn't have to be just substance.

Well, it's it's called, it is behavioral.

It is behavioral.

13:31

Like, you know, donut is behavioral.

Sex is behavioral, Heroin is behavioral.

Yeah.

Just have narcotics have a a somatic or physical dependence added to it, which makes it a little bit different, but it's still a behavioral adaptation.

13:47

And that's why it goes back to saying like once.

You know, I'm always going to be an addict however I choose, whether I'm going to feed that addiction or not every single day.

And that's just the way I look at for me personally, you know, I believe that's what I believe.

Right.

14:03

You know, yeah.

Totally.

That's what I'm saying about like the value like that has value for you.

So as long as it has value, then I'm My thing is just like we're always changing.

So we we need to always be reassessing if we're living by standards and values and even definitions that were 20 years old and we've never looked at them.

14:20

Sometimes they don't work for us anymore and they work against us.

And so I think it's just important to be like, hey, is this still providing value?

Sure is great keeping on going.

Or you know what, this is feeling a bit heavy, This is feeling like it's limiting or something like that.

And then it's time to explore.

So really all you're doing is doing assessment and exploration constantly discard what isn't working, bring in and strengthen what is.

14:41

And so, like, that's, that's what I mean.

I think we're all speaking the same language here.

Yeah, I mean.

Well, I just like in my journey.

It's just like I just, I just decided one day that I'm a hell of a lot more than an addict and and that's the way I feel about myself.

And that's what I was going to say.

14:58

It was like, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that once an addict, always an addict.

I'm not sitting here saying that we're we're pieces of crap, you know, and we're drug addicts the rest of our life.

No, no, I'm not saying that at all.

It's the addictive tendencies.

Like Brianna was making an.

Addict from being addicted to just being an addict, right?

15:16

Exactly.

Like, I'm a grateful addict, you know, I'm a grateful addict in recovery.

Like, that is me.

And that was is what I'll.

But it doesn't mean I'm always going to be a piece of shit drug addict at all.

It just means that's what I identify it.

And there's a there's always going to be a propensity to more addictive tendencies.

15:33

Like no matter what.

And so if we do like, drink again and you're fine and life's fine, still got to keep an eye on that more than the regular person would, you know what I mean?

Like, once that history is there, there's always that you gotta.

You never know.

You know what I mean?

Would I sit in my house and drink by myself?

15:49

No.

Yeah, because I know I wouldn't control it so.

That's you keeping it.

That's.

That's you.

Yeah.

Doing exactly what's Ryan speaking to.

So now that said, there's some verbiage here now that that matters.

And and some interesting things have come to light as I've spoken to so many different people in the last 48 hours about this conversation, which I think is is just great, particularly, and I don't know, Jared, did you ever get a chance to go back and check that thread that I had tagged blacklisted?

16:18

No, I just wanna hate me.

No, I didn't.

No, I'm not gonna hate you.

Nobody ever has to qualify.

I didn't.

I get it.

I get.

It I don't catch anything.

Listen, I I.

Get it ever right.

Unless it.

Unless it's got his name in it somewhere.

Because it doesn't even happen.

It doesn't even exist.

I got AI got a full time job.

16:34

I'm sorry.

Oh.

Over the back, there you go.

My full time job is fucking helping your ass figure out your website.

That is true, I guess.

I literally, as I told him earlier, I said, yo, I'm about to start paying you to help me build this website.

So, well, let me let me do this job before we dive deep into it.

16:54

Let me let let me hit this PSA real quick.

Oh yeah, yeah, fuck we're.

Already here and that way that we can jump in.

So yeah, let me go ahead.

We will be right back after this quick commercial break.

The following PSA is brought to you by the Phoenix.

The Phoenix is not just a gym, it's a community where the real weight lifted is not just barbells, but hearts, vines and spirits.

17:15

Whether you're in recovery or simply choose to live sober lifestyle, the Phoenix offers a range of activities from yoga to biking, all led by people who walk the path of transformation.

So why not aim higher?

With the Phoenix?

The first membership requirement is just 48 hours of sobriety.

17:31

Rise from the ashes and soar with the Phoenix today do you know about naloxone?

Otherwise known as Narcan?

This life saving medication can reverse an opioid overdose in minutes.

You might think I don't need it.

I'm not around Oak through its But the truth is you never know when you'll be in a situation where you could save a life.

17:48

It's easy to use and in many places offered for free or at a low cost.

So let's be prepared and look out for each other.

Remember, you might not plan on being around opioid use, but you never know when it will be around you and you could save the life of somebody that loves and is loved.

I'm Chuckle Flange with the Ashes to Awesome podcast and remember you are loved.

18:10

You really got a face for radio.

Your mom's right.

His voice, I was gonna say.

His voice is so smooth.

It's so.

Good.

It's so good.

I'm like Pam.

I wish my voice was like.

Yes, I charged 299 a minute to read your poetry.

But but.

Shout out I charged 349 a minute to read your vote.

18:28

I'm having Start reading your bedtime stories.

Shout out to shout out to the phoenix, though the phoenix, I did some.

Great things over.

There Mr. Don Furtman, who has been on both of our shows.

Yeah.

The Yeah, former what was the CEO, chief development officer of Subway.

18:47

He ran Subway for years on Undercover Boss.

He's an amazing guy He he's on the board of directors there.

So.

And he was in a band called The Crayons.

Yep, the crayons.

He.

Was the orange crayon and he was the orange crayon.

19:03

Yeah, right.

He drove an orange car.

He lived in a fucking orange house with an orange lawn and an orange St.

I don't know.

He had orange all up in his life.

Right.

So.

If you guys can go to both of our you can go to Ash's awesome podcast, you can go to The Blacklist podcast and check out his episode.

But anyways, that was I just wanted to give a quick shout out.

19:20

OK, so I don't know if that comment came through, but I just looked at my personal page and Doctor Lisa was on there and thrown out a comment which speaks to right to what I was about to say.

She said people with people suffering an addiction or however she worded it there.

I don't know if that shows up there.

It is people with addiction, right?

19:36

So Doctor Lisa by the way, is one of my other Co hosts on the weekend ramble.

She is an incredible human being.

Hi Lisa.

Thank you for joining the show.

So saying addicts at all is I I think we can move past that except what's been explained to me in the last couple of days and I don't have the kind of experience with 12 step that say you you do Ryan and I'm not sure about either one of you guys to be honest with you.

20:02

Ryan knows his 12 step very, very well.

You I mean I think you I, I don't think you identify as a 12 stepper anymore.

Right.

I I hate to say anything on your behalf but you know the literature you know that you know the traditions you you know that the steps quite well right.

20:17

Relative to me this right.

Yeah.

So.

Yeah, I do, but it's not what I work out of.

So what was explained to me yesterday by Mike Miller, the the owner here at Yatra Center was that in a meeting you are supposed to use the word addict.

You're not.

20:33

When you get up and say something different, you're unleveling that playing field with everyone else.

So once 12, once Narcotics Anonymous decides or Alcoholics Anonymous decides to use different verbiage as a as an A group, then they would say then you would use something else but in order to level that playing field so that we're all the same when we walk into the rooms.

20:59

That's why they insist that you use the word addict, which kind of changes things, right?

Is that is that your experience, Ryan?

Do you do?

Can you say that that's true or false?

In your mind, speaking, he's speaking to anonymity.

And like you know, the whole thing about anonymity is, you know in the beginning it was explaining like the if your name is Rockefeller, then you're going to be treated differently.

21:20

So they they wanted no last names and that's why people don't use last names.

The I I can see that.

I think I think there's because to be honest in the beginning, I think it's an important part like of the process of like being a part of this group and you know that this guy identifies as an addict.

21:40

We we're the same now I have connection.

I'm an addict, you know, and it's kind of, to me, it's a bit cheapy.

But as we go along, this is what I mean in the beginning, it's about community.

It's about learning how to like shit you.

You get to share emotional experiences.

21:55

And probably when you've never done anything like that before with other human beings that are going through the same things or have just gone through them and like the magic of that is life changing.

As you guys know, you go to a, you know, you go to group and it's like, Oh my God, this is the most amazing thing in the world.

But then we actualize and you know like I think in a healthy process it's about building a full life out.

22:18

So that stuff almost starts to dissipate.

Kind of like going from like high school into university and your friends kind of change and you get a girlfriend.

Now you have a family.

You know what I mean?

It's just kind of the evolution of of of that process.

That's my opinion.

My experience like I haven't been doing meeting in, I don't know how many years, you know, like and it's also not like it's it's all evolved from that.

22:41

So it it was really important to learn about what that is, but I mean like like Jared said, dirty junkie or dirty addict when he was was talking there before it was just.

Like a piece of shit addict.

I think it's the words, right?

Yeah, piece of shit addict.

Yeah, yeah.

And I was like, oh, you know what I mean?

22:57

And so there's still this, like this sharpness to the word addict.

Well, and if there is, and Doctor Lisa will tell you nobody runs around and says I'm cancer.

Nobody.

You know what I mean Or I'm IA beat each I'm you know what I mean.

23:13

So why do we do that with addiction?

I mean well, but I mean we use substance use disorder.

Was that what's that?

Sorry, Jared.

I'm an asshole, you know, Like it's.

Just, I'm told you, you can have that.

Case in point, right?

23:31

Right.

Yeah.

Well, I mean so, so like so you know, in in in in my field, in my work, in my, in my vocabulary or my lexicon includes substance use disorder.

And that's the way with physical dependence.

Like that's the way I look at that.

Outside of that, like it's it's, it's it's like trauma.

23:46

You know, like if it's not a part of you, if you don't accept it as a part of us and it's an integrated piece of us, then it will own us.

If we pretend it's not there, then it, you know, whatever we don't tame owns us.

And that's the way that goes.

And whatever it is, whether it's trauma, whether it's past history, if it's a belief systems that are old and stale like if we let them run rampant outside of awareness or outside of our consciousness, they really affect our our day-to-day operation and especially our mental health.

24:11

And so like I think it's important to like always be expanding that I guess so and and and part of that expanding is changing.

I don't like the word overdose.

I think drug poisoning is a proper term.

I don't like treatment is a medical term, which is deficit.

24:27

Recovery is a medical term, which is deficit.

I just don't have better terms.

As much as I would like to say, you know, because it's not about to me, it's not, it's not about getting anything back.

It's about taking the life experiences I've had, which are all valuable and adding to that.

So I'm never recovering.

I'm just always growing, you know, And so like that's.

24:45

A fundamental shift when you start thinking that way.

Yeah.

And like and so like, I don't the term recovery is kind of like what?

No, no, no.

I already have that.

I want more.

You know, I'm not recovering something and I'm not but I guess if you look at it from a healing perspective, there is a recovery process in recovery time.

25:02

So but even then it's just like I'm about wholeheartedness and like let's infuse love into the world instead of but you know, the the blindness of just going through life every day without thinking about anything or or having any awareness around anything And and I think that like you know, I lived a lot of my life like that as a as a passenger.

25:20

Right when when Chuck was saying, you know, like people don't walk around saying like, hi, I'm cancer, that it's like the same thing, like I'm not sitting there like every person I meet, hi, I'm an addict.

You know, that's not like, that's what I'm labeling me before my name.

25:36

But that's just how I that's just, that's just how I view it.

But it's not like, you know, I'm not walking up to every single person like, hi, I'm an addict in recovery.

No.

When you when you first got sober, were you?

Sometimes I do.

Yeah.

25:51

When when you first got sober, were you.

Oh, right.

Was that, was that like kind of your stepping off point with people that you met?

Right, You know.

Like time and place?

Yeah, so fair enough.

Depends on where I was can.

I connect where it was.

Questions.

You heard about that?

Yeah, does.

26:08

Does it feel more like your attachment to the term is personal and it's for you?

Absolutely.

You know what I mean.

And so it's not like.

That's why when I say these, that's for me, it's.

Yeah, I mean and like, so that works for you.

And and so if we really think about it, anyone that you do talk about it with is it's an honor because it's a very sacred, vulnerable attachment that's really pure, you know what I mean?

26:34

And so I I like the way that you use I I don't do that the same myself but I like really like the way you do you use that term as a strength and and so like you know it's it opens my eyes because I I get a little blind and arrogant at times let.

Me let's go through some comments real quick because we we we got a bunch of comments that came in.

26:54

Yeah, can't see any.

Yeah, no, I'm, I'm putting them up around.

So Tina said.

Hey, hey, from Ontario.

Hey, Tina, what platform is she coming in on?

We should I, Scotty H so.

She's one of my personal friends.

Her son's father has suffered for from addiction for many, many years.

27:15

OK.

So she's she's loved one of one that's that's an awesome we chat we we focus very much on that on on our show and I love those perspectives.

I think I think for every addict is in for every person suffering an addiction.

27:31

For every survivor of addiction.

Scotty HI.

See what you're saying there there's ten people like her right.

There's ten people like your friend at least at least that are conscripted soldiers in this battle right.

And it's we we need to do better at societal level of helping those people right.

27:49

Because by extension, if you support and help the families, you're supporting, helping the people that are suffering.

I think that's another.

Resources and backup.

Right, Yeah.

Another amazing thing about doing this and speaking out because they can see, you know, maybe their loved ones aren't lost.

You know, there still is a life actor and they still can be, you know, quote, UN quote, normal or humans and live productive life.

28:11

You know, it gives them hope.

And that's, yeah, that's the word that I just kept going through my head when you were talking like and that's it.

That is that if we if we we we can lose everything and still survive with peace as long as we've got hope.

You know what I mean?

28:27

And and it is inspirational little bit little just the micro movements man that that starts to just that that's what changes us is like seeing this or watching.

You know I've been to speakers and they said one sentence and just like bam, I'm I'm I'm just so happy to be alive.

You know and like that's the magic of the narrative in the in in the recovery rooms and and the community of it is like there's something that transcends space and time through emotional connection like no other.

28:52

I'm sure there's there's places that I just never experienced it.

Maybe sports being on successful sports seems to kind of felt similar but not like that.

I mean I went to I went to worlds in 2005 in Skydome and literally it was like 56 or 60,000 people doing the Serenity pair altogether.

29:10

All wow.

Yeah.

It's the coolest thing.

Yeah.

The world's convention in 2005, I'm going to say.

That's crazy, man.

That's crazy.

Yeah, eh.

Yeah, it was.

And I I stood right on home plate where I was told where I was doing the the bear.

It was a big deal.

Really.

29:26

Yeah.

There's something you never told me about, man, that's like that.

That makes a guy like that.

Could be goosebumps.

Real hard.

Just not thinking about that, man.

It was.

What an honor that must be, right?

Yeah, that's cool.

Anyways, anything to do?

Yeah, No.

That's what the conversation's about, right?

So go.

29:41

Ahead, Scott said.

When I'm in a meeting, when I'm in the meeting a A, I announce myself as a recovered alcoholic and in NAI say I'm a survivor of addiction.

So Scotty H has been a guest on our show.

He's actually, he's Jared.

He's a guy that maybe I should link you up with.

29:59

He's His story is fucking knots.

Great Hand Bananas.

It's knots, right?

And and I'll tell you the first thing he said when he came on my show was my name is Scotty H I'm.

I'm a survivor of addiction and I take that and I just, I love it.

I think it's a fantastic way to to look at it.

30:18

If you whether or not you scream that to the world, if if only you take that verbiage and use it on yourself, I think it's a great way to to move forward from from the pain and and that I'll say that moment.

He said.

That definitely there was a shift within me.

As you know what, that's how I want to identify.

30:36

And this is what he follows it up with.

I strongly feel that stating in the present terms, addict or alcoholic, it allows the power of disease to have place in your current life.

If you've done the work, then you've healed the portion of your addiction or alcoholism that isn't active in remission per SE.

30:51

Like a person who put cancer in remission.

They say survivor of right.

That makes sense.

It's, it's, yeah, it passes a Litman test for me, that's for sure.

That's why I like words Ryan used before, he said.

You know, I have substance use disorder and I don't think that term is used as often as it should be.

31:11

Absolutely.

Yeah.

I think it's becoming more, more, more used.

Absolutely.

I personally use people who are suffering an addiction because to me, I'm only a year and what, 3 weeks today I think it's over.

No, no, I mean the future.

31:26

So that's cheating.

That's a year and 6 1/2 days because because now I'm 12 hours in the future, right?

But so for me, I I don't know.

I kind of lost my train of thought there.

All right.

31:42

It's, it's being, it's, it's being 12 hours ahead in the future.

Plan Travel will do that to you, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, That'll happen, right?

Yeah.

Anyway, good.

Good to see.

Good to hear from Scotty.

I just want to say shove, Scotty, everybody.

Anna.

Kate Horn, she's she's a follower of us over at The Blacklist.

31:59

I kind of I kind of hate how with any recovery meetings, it's hi, I'm Anna, and I'm a Blink multiple fellowships.

But it's awkward.

And again, the verbiage isn't for everybody.

It it's it's because she follows it up right here with like I'm human too, Which makes sense.

32:18

Well, I get it.

You're.

A human first before you're any of those things right and and yeah and I I think that's it's important to remember even if think about the rooms and and I may be off here and and I've really this is in the last couple days been made apparent to me is respecting those traditions that are put there for a reason.

32:37

And if you if you want to reap the benefits of being in a 12 step program, then maybe you should respect those traditions and use the verbiage that is expected of you in that room, right?

Yeah I can.

I can definitely speak to that and all that.

Like I think when you stick around a long time you really realize how much how important the traditions are and and where I'm at like I don't know.

32:59

However many years later, to me it's all about the traditions and like the the the steps are as a counselor.

I just look at them totally differently now.

But but the traditions is it's it's it's about carrying some form of legacy because like nothing else made it.

33:15

The Washingtonians didn't make it.

Whatever they had before them, the anyways they didn't make.

It heard of that, right?

So yeah, yeah.

But you know, and and this did because of the traditions, and the traditions become the foundation.

And like to me again, that's the foundation of a community.

33:32

The community is about connection and connection.

It is the freaking answer every, every time, like over and over.

And the opposite of addiction is connection.

And I think that that's what we're talking about.

Yeah, we'll get Doctor Lisa coming in.

Yeah, I see that.

33:48

I see that.

I think the playing field can be levelled without identifying as a disease.

We are aware and intelligent enough to find better verbiage then used in the 1940s.

Sorry, a comment came in and it it bumped it up so.

34:06

I know, I know what Lisa's doing here.

So, so you guys, you guys know her so obviously.

Lisa is a dear friend.

Is she doing?

I know she does.

Yeah.

Yeah, go ahead.

I don't.

I do not.

I do not have any belief whatsoever that addiction is a disease whatsoever.

34:26

See, there's another topic.

Fuck, right?

There's a whole another fucking episode right there.

So I know it came up with the last question.

I saw it and I was like, no, no, just like.

That you know we'll we'll we'll do an another another live on this topic because that that's one that could be in itself.

You're right, right.

34:43

So maybe let's just put that part of that.

And I would rather do that to be honest with you, because it is.

It'll, it'll turn into a runaway.

Yeah.

Now Lisa I I was Lisa is the one that's got me saying survivor or or suffering and addiction.

Lisa has changed the way I think about many, many things.

35:00

And to you Lisa, I will say now after the conversations I've had the last couple days, I have to repeat, if you're going to take advantage of 12 step programs and there's other programs, there's otherwise I'm not a 12 stepper, right?

Like I'm not I haven't been since my first 30 days and you know and I've relapsed since that first 30 days.

35:17

So I ain't going to fucking lie to you, but if you're going to take advantage of that program, I think there is a responsibility to to, you know, respect their traditions.

And if calling yourself an addict is what it takes to respect that tradition, then then in those, in that instance, I think that's OK because you're, you're reaping the benefits of that program.

35:38

So why wouldn't you respect that?

Right?

On our show, we don't say it.

We do not call people addicts.

I put it in the title.

I get kicked back right away from people I did on this particular one.

Can I can you go ahead, Go ahead, I want.

To calendar for Lisa.

OK, with.

35:53

With a question, yeah.

Yeah.

Would you go see, let's say, a brain surgeon that worked out of a textbook from 1939?

No, no, of course not.

Just curious.

No, but I had the choice whether or not.

If I did, I'd be in his wheelhouse, wouldn't I?

36:09

Yeah, right.

Like if I chose the one.

Drill and that's.

And and it's.

The same goes with 12 steps.

If I'm choosing to go there but I'm not, I'm just speaking.

I'm here to work on my life, not to change the way they fucking do.

Things, I hear you.

I'm just speaking to Lisa's comment that we are intelligent enough to find a better way.

36:27

She's right, you know, scientifically right.

Right.

When we, when we do this, when we do this topic, we we we should bring her on.

Oh yeah.

Well, Lisa, you could bring her on anything, anytime.

She will dazzle you.

She will.

She's.

I'm, I'm just saying, is she?

36:43

Only available on the weekends.

For this specific topic.

I would not dare speak to her schedule.

She's a mother, a daughter, a.

Wife, I was just asking because you said.

She might be available Tuesdays at two.

She might be available Sunday morning at 4:00 AM Saturday morning.

She makes herself available for the weekend ramble.

And that's what makes me happy so.

36:59

I I think if we can have her and Ryan and and and I think it we we could have a very very Oh yeah, which.

We have those notations all the time, brother.

Yeah.

No.

Oh, Shan Shan's got something valid to say.

Somebody read this because I really it's can somebody else.

37:14

Read that.

Somebody read it.

I got.

This.

You got it.

You got it, Chad.

Yeah, sure, sure, sure.

Oh, no, no.

You go ahead, Brianna.

No.

Use your radio voice.

Oh, OK, alright, Shanty Murnes says a A gave me a community in a connection.

I needed to start doing the work.

I am organically moving towards service work with people that are seeking help.

37:33

I still say I'm an alcoholic, but there's a stigma that I'm ready to move past.

Why can I not do that?

Hi, my name is Jared Blaine.

That's not like.

Stop it.

You just made it weird.

You just.

Ruined my hello, ladies and gentlemen.

37:50

Let's seriously, let's give Shan the respect of actually looking at her comment and having.

I I like.

I really like this.

I like, I like this process.

Like the flow of this.

What she's speaking to is like speaking to, like, evolution and growth.

And I'm right.

You know what?

There is stigma.

38:05

Yeah, 'cause we feel it, You know, like stigma's not something we think about.

It's something that we that hammers us, you know, like, especially if we identify or we watch it happen.

And so to say, like, I'm, I'm ready to move past it's.

So this is what I'm speaking to cut more of my process where like, I felt that every time that I heard that term and that was not working for me anymore, you know, so I had to let it go like the rope.

38:29

And so this is.

I really, I really connect with what what Shan was saying.

Yeah, sorry I got fired up there.

No, no, don't be sorry for that, right.

Yeah.

Yeah, I'm a strong believer that, you know, we can learn those skills.

You know, we can reteach ourselves and learn those skills to learn how to cope with, you know, our mentality of having that addictive behavior and help others with it instead of living behind that shield.

38:58

Yeah, yeah.

I think it's and I think it's about choice and freedom.

Like we choose our existence and we live in that freedom or we don't and history does it for us and we just repeat it over and over and over and over again.

You know what I mean?

Like so like you know and this is what I like I just love the way she put that because it spoke to like making a choice, seeing, doing assessment, seeing what's there, seeing what's value, getting rid of what it isn't working.

39:20

Like that was just great.

I I don't know.

That was that was my favorite, I got to say.

Brianna, I will let you read.

The.

List of that her comments coming up next after Anna's.

She's a compulsive and powerless over anything.

39:36

To me means help is needed and it's a form of illness, disease.

But like Y'all said, that's a whole other rabbit hole, right?

Right.

Yeah.

There's there's a whole episode to be done on that, yeah.

You know, I think it's something.

We could talk about this weekend, even Lisa, we have, you know, yeah, on the weekend ramble.

39:57

Yeah, but I don't disagree with that.

You know the disease, it's it's mental health like.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Let's let let's let Ryan read this one.

Well, now I've set a bar so he's everybody's going to feel you.

40:12

Know no, no, that ain't happening.

Listen, I got I I keep my expectations low and I'm really disappointed.

You're better looking than I am.

So you don't need, you don't need the voice.

OK.

Brain surgeons today learned from the mistakes and successes of brain surgeons in the 1930s and expanded beyond that.

That doesn't mean they don't respect the brain surgeons from the 1930s.

40:31

OK, I didn't.

I didn't make brain surgeons.

Here's the second part of it.

Expansion and growth don't imply lack of respect.

No, they don't.

But you're walking into somebody else's house and that that is my point to that, right.

If because that is what they want you to do when you're in their house and that's what you do right when in Rome, right?

40:51

Yeah.

So.

I I don't know.

I don't know right.

I I don't think that's tough.

I I.

Don't have experience with brain surgeons in the 30s, so.

Yeah, I don't.

Have much to say?

Well, I'm pretty sure I don't want them touching my fucking naked melon, that's for sure, right?

41:07

You know.

Well, I mean one of those hand crank drills.

I'm not sure what they're going to find, Chuck.

I don't know what they're going to find anyways.

Nobody's really sure what's going on in there, so let me tell you right.

Just a budgie feather.

I got myself in trouble today with a friend that I got to figure out how to save that now too.

41:22

So.

Not surprised before tomorrow.

So we're we're all caught up on comets, so we're all caught.

OK, OK, Good stuff.

Good stuff, good stuff.

You know, we should have just had Lisa in here in the first place.

You know, I didn't want to outnumber you, Jared, with all my, my.

I show up with my crew, and just as, you know, it's you and Brianna.

41:39

And then Brianna's like, you're my man.

And then she's going to be like, you know, stick it, Yeah, whatever.

So I don't know.

I just made.

Up all the thing.

That happened.

The cool thing but this is the cool thing about having something like this is that like we we I just the we just had with Benjamin Lerner last night.

You know, we can sit there and we can have points of of view and opinions that we may not agree 100%, but we still respect each other and we understand it and and and that's why we do these.

42:06

Like Chuck, we talked about this before.

You and I aren't going to agree on everything, OK, We're going to have different points of view, but that doesn't mean we sit here and call each other assholes and and fuck you and this, that and the third.

I don't.

You might, but I don't know, but still.

Behind your back, I'm I'm really more of a slight.

42:22

He's gonna, he's gonna hit mute on his microphone.

I'm way more spying this than that, yeah.

But but for real though, so so like this is really cool.

The the fact that we can do this 'cause we can have healthy debates, that's that's it.

It's being able to do this in a healthy manner and not.

And it's surprising how hard that is to find, though Jared.

42:40

It's very hard.

Very.

You, you start talking harm reduction versus abstinence.

That conversation is a really tough one to find the right people to have, right?

I managed to have it a couple times on the show now, but it's a tough thing to find the right dynamic, right?

42:56

People are very polarized.

And unfortunately, if you don't care the way that I, if you don't show you care the way I care, that means you don't care.

And that stops conversations from happening all about anything, really, right?

43:12

And and particularly in, you know, in, in this, in the recovery world, and it's unfortunate because it's just sucks.

It just sucks, man it.

Does, yeah.

It's.

I think what happens is just a lot of like self worth gets attached to the wrong things and then all of a sudden it's a debate turns into a personal attack.

43:28

So I'm speaking literally from experience in my own learning from protocols I.

Agree with you.

Well, like like Anna, she just just hit a nail on the head.

There's emotion and experience involved.

It's a touchy.

It's touchy stuff, by the way.

Well, said Anna.

And and and a ton of blind spots.

43:44

You had emotion.

There's a shit ton of blind spots.

Are you good?

It's really bad what's well.

Like you guys.

Like you need a rumor.

What's going on?

Right.

We're filming my my side.

That's your only fans channel.

That's not this channel.

But see, so like, like earlier I had gotten into like a minor debate with somebody online on a comment and I had to literally stop myself because I I wanted to just go off like, or dude, are you stupid?

44:16

But then I realized I can't because I represent one the the podcast.

But but still, it doesn't matter.

Like I I I had to kind of take my own advice of having a healthy conversation without just tearing this man down because I wanted.

To really bad in relation to this very episode, we had Lisa's on me.

44:37

That's exactly, that's exactly what I said.

Man, I wasn't even letting anyone read it.

Just put that honestly.

Now it's just going to give me a spanking from the other side of the world, right?

When you talked about that, I was thinking about how me and ELISA are so aligned of this one.

That would be good.

44:53

Ownership.

Yeah, yeah.

So as I'm advertising for this episode yesterday, a fellow from the UK, it's the second time he's given me shit for using the word addict inside an advertisement for a show or inside a thumbnail for a show.

And I said the same thing last time I said to him this time, just deal.

45:12

I don't like the word addict.

I we don't use it in the show.

As a rule, however, and for the sake of advertising, I'm not trying to convince everybody that agrees with me.

I'm trying to break the stigma of the with the people that don't.

So I have to use those.

45:28

I have to use that verbiage specifically in the advertising of these conversations.

Otherwise all I'm doing is telling a bunch of people that agree with me a bunch of shit that they agree with.

And what's the point of doing that, right?

That doesn't help.

That's.

Just, you know, what's the point for nothing changes until we talk about it, you know?

What?

45:43

I mean right so.

And and I don't know if he was chastising me or if he was making the point.

I feel like it was chastising me and and maybe there's some like cognitive behavioral therapy that I've just got into yesterday that I need to really take a look at and figure that out, right.

So it's actually the example that we used was that very thing.

46:02

So when when we were going through the the CTS process yesterday, right.

But.

You know, it's like you said before.

You you never know like you know when you're talking about little remains.

Why is that any different behind squidders?

I don't know how many.

Like, I'm I follow the dolphin's page that is extremely heated and often stupid.

46:21

But I've like, I've had times where I'm like, I need to use this to learn how to be emotionally regulated because I get so fired up.

And so I just kind of turned it into practice.

But and then it came to this, this realization that like, there's someone on the other end probably projecting something that you know nothing about nothing.

46:39

You know what I mean?

Like like, you know, that whole roof we project what we reflect, like we don't know what's happening on the other side at any given time and nine times out of 10, whatever shit we're taking from somebody, it's probably not ours in the 1st place.

And it's just been tailored in a way that it becomes a dagger at us when really there's a whole trail of history behind it, you know.

47:00

And if we can just if we can learn to just be like, you know, I I like to look at like you got to earn the, you got to earn the the ability to have an opinion of my life.

So if I don't know you, you have an opinion of me.

That's nice, you know?

And if you have earned the right, then I'm going to listen to you, even if it hurts, You know what I mean?

47:18

Because you've earned that.

Fair enough.

But anyway, and honestly, life is just so much more manageable when someone will be like, hey, run your goof.

And I'm like, totally nailed it, you know?

Like, often I am.

Yeah, for sure.

You know?

And they're like, what?

Oh, OK, Yeah.

Like, don't worry, you know.

Yeah, bless us.

47:37

Bless us with your voice.

Now you see, Scotty's got a thing.

He's he's got some personality when he's on film.

So, like, do it his I I might not even do it.

I might bastardize it 'cause he's pretty good.

He's pretty nice try anyway.

You want me to read it?

Try it before.

Yeah, you know what?

Yeah, go ahead.

47:53

Go ahead.

You read this one.

I feel like that's that's a big the big ask for.

Me yeah, yeah.

The A A program boasts results from 80 plus years of something that has been used and utilized all over the world for 10s of millions of people using language and their literature that says rarely have we seen someone fail who has thoroughly followed our path.

48:15

Rarely means almost never.

There is nothing in the recovery landscape that can and does claim that anywhere.

True story, true story, right.

So right now, I mean as far as I know if you, if you do the work and if you follow the steps and and all of the things does, does anything else work So far the way that that does or at least has worked for as many people?

48:41

You might, Ryan.

You might know of something that that does work as well, but that has worked for that many people, no.

Statistically, no.

Yeah.

Nothing holds a candle to what the recovery communities have done in the last eight years.

You're absolutely right.

You know, I just like it's also like been since 1990 that we've learned about digital imaging on the brain.

49:01

So like there's a 50 year gap there of of a lack of scientific knowledge.

And since then we're what we're 33 years into really understanding how the brain works, you know, and how neural loops work and behavior works and emotional regulation like that.

49:17

All that before was just like well just punch it or go go to work or you know or get go get drunk in a bar.

Like that was pretty much life until we had we had science.

But you know what I mean?

Like, there's so much about human behavior that we've discovered in the last 33 years that really makes you look at everything else.

49:37

And so, yeah, that's worked for a long time.

And I agree.

But like, I don't.

I think that that just the recovery community alone is, I think everyone needs to go to have some level of processing or therapy in concert with their life in recovery. 100% I hate, man.

49:55

I've been here about a week.

Honestly, I'm three days into programming. 100 fucking percent.

You know, I want to read.

That after three days I can say therapy should be.

Absolutely.

Therapy is something I would recommend a lot of.

Everybody does.

So I would, I would say like data wise your chances increase dramatically if you add the element of therapeutic process to your.

50:17

Recovery A holistic approach, right?

You know, right as as Chuck is drinking out of a fucking glass water bottle.

Yeah.

Look at this thing is.

That bougie.

I saw it, so I I had to.

I had to bring it up, which is why I saw it and I had to.

Bring it.

You see the cap on there?

It's like the old school, right?

50:34

Just yeah, right.

That's the shit in.

Thailand that they they drink with.

Right.

Yeah.

So this.

Is IA thousand and million percent agree with you, Ryan?

Like, I think when you get into recovery, since I've been sober, I'm working on four years here.

50:53

I've graduated rehab three times and I'm also in mental health.

I see a therapist.

I think going and working through those and being self aware just for me really helps, you know, increase your levels of success because you are more self aware just for.

51:17

Me, Brianna, I don't.

I don't think you have to do that with that statement.

I don't think you have to qualify that with just for me on that statement.

I think that statement applies to to mankind, right?

It does.

How?

How could it not?

How can not being more self aware, how can not getting help with learning how to be more self aware and and handle not be good for human being?

51:37

And of course, there's people you know, in recovery that have never done that.

You know, they've never, you know, worked with the counselor on rehab and they've never seen a therapist and stuff like that.

And they're out here living sober lives.

I don't think they're as in tune with themselves or as emotionally regulated.

51:56

Like I said before, as someone who has gone and worked those programs, you know, to me that was my fault.

To that program, I don't know a single step.

But I was successful of, you know, with getting off MAT and, you know, continuing to be sober with my life because I dug into who I was as a child to learning those mannerisms and those behaviors, you know, that formed when I was a child and how to recognize what?

52:27

Did you do cognitive behavioral therapy?

Is that is that what you did?

No, OK.

No, I just went to rehab.

Is it outpatient?

And I I would graduate out.

And then I would notice things being chaotic in my life again.

And I would reach back out and I would start from square one again.

52:46

OK.

And I'd go back through it, you know, and I've done that three times and it's.

Just and it's resiliency.

It's just beautiful, isn't it?

You know, like in that, in that power and that hope and like, here's what I know, like the guy that I was before I started to like, study human behavior and phenomenology, and I don't even know who that guy is anymore.

53:04

Like the person.

So it just, it didn't just, like, make things more advantageous or improve my odds.

It changed everything about my world, everything about.

And so I went way past beyond processing my own trauma and went into the field, did all this, you know, all this stuff.

53:23

And it's just like if you allow, I guess with anything, you can be inspired enough by anything to allow it to change everything about you.

And I think that we have access to that at any given time.

But do we have the awareness that we have that access And that that to me is a tragedy about this awareness piece.

53:42

And like that's what we're talking about.

I, you know, I don't know how many times I took a one year cake.

Like what I lacked all of them was awareness.

I just kept doing the moves of everybody else and then thinking I did it wrong.

You know what I mean?

And it.

And then it's like I just started to question, you know, and I'm always kind of being that guy, but why not question everything and make up my mind what that should be for me and live in that world and then arrange it in a way that I can be peaceful?

54:12

Because ultimately it's not even sobriety that I'm after.

It's peace.

That's what I was looking for the first time I drank a bottle of Sun Comfort behind 711.

Behind 711, I was just about to say.

Behind 711.

I was looking for peace, and I found it.

It was the first time I ever found it.

And that's what I my first attachment to peace was.

54:30

And now it's just like peace is like, it's attainable.

It's it's easy.

It's about rhythm and alignment and it's about love and it's about vulnerability and it's, you know, allowing yourself permission to be fallible, you know, You know, here's one thing I was telling myself is, like every human being in my life that I care about is going to let me down, and I'm going to do the same for them.

54:47

That just takes it off the table.

You know, like, I'm going to hurt you.

It's going to.

Happen, you said before you know, you don't know what they have going on, you know, outside of what is presented in front of you, you know, and not taking that personally and regulating yourself and understanding that is amazing.

55:04

And I think it's doing that so many times has also, you know, helped me on this journey too, because I can understand a lot more people that are still in active addiction.

Absolutely.

You know, I mean, I was there, but it's those behaviors, you know, people that want to get sober and get clean, whatever, whatever term we're using, you know, I can help little by little because, you know, it's not going to happen until they're ready, you know?

55:31

But I can give advice on little behaviors, You know, maybe you should try doing this one day or, you know, doing this and stuff like that.

And it's just, I think it's an amazing tool for a lot of us to have.

Yeah.

I think I use the word doing it over and over and I call that practice which makes, which makes, you know that's how we learn.

55:49

And then, like, you know, there's just, there's just something so beautiful to the process and so you, you know, sober getting, you know, how about just healing?

Isn't that what we're doing?

That's what it was, yeah.

Right.

You know, yeah.

56:05

You know.

And so how, how can I help you heal?

Like I I love that.

Give me that responsibility all day.

It irritates me when I tell somebody, you know, hey, I've graduated rehab three times.

Oh, yeah, I've been to rehab like six or seven times.

No, I don't mean I've been to rehab three times.

56:21

Like in my almost four years of sobriety, I have graduated, you know, gone through the program.

I didn't do, just do the like the 12 weeks.

Like it was almost a year long, every single time before I felt comfortable enough to get to that point, to snap.

Meeting with someone weekly, you know, and take a step back for a little bit, you know, You know there's the difference between going to rehab and completing rehab.

56:46

Yeah.

And and Anna?

Anna says awareness is big.

Surrendering will is even harder.

Yeah, yeah.

True story, Anna.

True story, right?

And.

I think it's perspective.

57:03

I think that has to do with lens shifting.

I don't think it's as.

I think there's a way to do it that isn't as hard as we think to be honest with you.

I think it's about choice and it's about conviction.

It's a it's a commitment, effort, thing.

57:19

You know what I mean?

Like, so when I look at my history, like how much power am I giving this that that it's deserving?

That's that first question, Does it deserve the power it has, you know?

And so surrendering will to me is just like, it's I instead of surrendering will I use the term relying on emergence.

57:39

So it's, you know what I mean?

I'm just gonna go with what comes at me instead of holding on to whatever's back here.

And so I'm allowing emergence to happen as I go through the world and it spins around the sun.

You know what I mean?

And and and so there's no, there's no deficit to that.

57:54

There's you know what I mean?

It's the same thing.

It's like we used to.

We talked about it in a show like curiosity or excitement and anxiety.

Curiosity, fear, they're the same thing.

We just, it's a lens shift.

You know.

So how am I empowering this by saying I am having a this is hard for me to let go of my will.

58:09

How much power does that give it?

Just in saying that when I could change it to, I'm excited to go through this challenge of of of transformation and part of that is letting go of this thing, you know, Absolutely.

It is, absolutely.

Right.

And and then I got a buddy with me to talk about it.

58:28

You know what I mean?

Like, we verbalize it.

It becomes real.

It loses power.

If it sits in our head, we're fucked.

Like, it's just gonna gain all the power in the world and starts collecting evidence and idiot.

But as soon as I'm like, dude, I'm struggling with this thing, but I want to look at it differently.

Help me.

Boom.

We talk about it.

58:43

Yeah.

You know, And it's freedom.

Yeah.

It's unbelievable.

Yeah.

And how simple it is.

It's unbelievable.

Yeah.

You can see why this man's an important part of my life right now.

He's.

Like if he charged me.

For unavailable hours I get from him it's.

You know I need to start.

59:00

Him to have somebody to sit there and rebuttal things with back and forth and.

You need to start charging.

Him not be yelling and screaming anything.

Shut up, Jared.

Yeah.

Start charging him No I I.

Shouldn't pay the bill anyway.

He knows that.

So whatever.

Put it on your account, yeah.

59:17

I have to turn this guy's recordings into manageable reels.

So, like, let me tell you where the fucking bill.

Was voice over?

I am a nightmare.

I'm a I'm a nightmare.

I never did get to that wheel today, Ryan.

I apologize for that.

Yeah, what's a couple weeks?

59:34

What's a couple weeks, right?

I'm on the other side of the world.

I'm still, hey, I'm still ahead.

I'm in the future still, So whatever.

I'm still ahead of you.

I like.

I like Tina's.

Tina's.

Thing Yeah, Tina, I would say let's let's finish up with Tina's comment.

The more aware you are about how you really feel about your peace and such will help guide you in a healthy direction.

59:55

I feel like I need to read all the comments now because, like, that was just, yeah, that was deadpan.

That was Denpan, Jared.

Trying to ask you guys a question about this.

What was horrible?

Oh, the way I said it.

Yeah man, it was like, geez.

Now you're critiquing his radio voice.

Come on.

1:00:10

Well, I'm just saying I'm, I'm just.

Kidding.

The more hold on, the more aware you are about how you really feel about your peace and such.

Oh my God.

Guide you in a healthy director you were.

Trying to be like Smokey the Bear there only.

You had breakfast fires?

Hey, Yogi Boo Boo, Yeah.

Boo Boo, that's what.

1:00:29

Am I gonna say Ryan?

That's a weird talking.

Just like I when I read this in my head, there's AI, just I feel that there's an, there's an emotion to this that I just really like.

I don't know if you guys just read it, read it to yourselves again and tell me how you feel.

1:00:47

What does that do?

I hate it when you do this to me, Ryan.

Jesus.

That's interesting.

Read it to yourself I I have.

So what do you what do you take?

Out of it.

I mean it's like this.

All the time it's.

Weird.

It's funny that you say that, Ryan, because I've known Tina for almost four years now.

1:01:06

I met her right around the beginning of my sobriety.

We met for me advocating for sobriety, you know, helping other people.

And she does really look at the emotions of things.

You know, she was like, she's not an actor self, but she's very passionate about helping her son's father.

1:01:25

I can feel that, trying to understand and stuff like that.

So yeah, it's there's a lot behind her saying that.

Right.

That's great, Yeah.

You know what I mean?

And so, like this is so this is just a really easy little thing to do about how do I like how how can I read this from the lens of emotion?

1:01:43

If we, if we can, if we can start getting messaging from through the lens of emotion, people are talking to us and we're processing it in as emotion.

Think about our access to potential in our ability to do that.

Think about our access to vulnerability and connection.

They will.

Be doing that for.

Us.

Well, my point is, is like if we live the world through a feelings lens, we're living the world through a connected to the now lens.

1:02:04

You know, it's it, it's sensation that gives us access to the moment.

Everything else that's outside of the moment is fictional, unwritten or over.

And so, like, when we talk in emotion, it connects us to the moment.

And when we do it with another human being, that's how we've evolved.

1:02:19

Like, that's why this human experience is so magical.

When we transcend time and space, we do it through emotional connection.

And so when I I I felt that in reading this, which tells me Tina is a very good EQ and probably would be a really good person to talk to about how they feel.

1:02:42

Yeah, Tina, I don't know.

That was the this is an unofficial slash official invite to the Ashes Dawson podcast, so feel free to reach out to me.

Yeah, definitely.

I Co sign for that.

Yeah.

Has she been on your show yet?

No, but I think that that's something we should talk.

1:02:59

About, I've thought about reaching out.

Here's the thing, Tina.

If you come on my show, you'll be on in a week.

If you come on his show, it'll.

Be 2008.

Listen, flying cars.

I'm sorry that we're three.

Months 5 Don't even be gasoline anymore.

The fucking dinosaurs will make a comeback.

Then you'll be on air on his show.

1:03:15

So that's.

Lego J.

Fox and.

Horror work, you know, for like an L and on point of view.

Yeah, I can tell you in in my experience, some of the most amazing episodes I've had are with the family, the loved ones.

And I mean, I don't need to put her business out there, but I I think it's a little more difficult for her because her son is autistic.

1:03:39

So there's different levels there of trying to involve, you know, his father and his life and stuff like that.

You know, I feel like there's there's more guard.

Throw in there.

I can imagine.

I can imagine, right?

And then all those struggles are so real, right?

1:03:55

They're they're and they're by letting people by letting people hear those stories.

How many people are like Tina and whether or not it it involves a son with autism or some other who knows other challenge in their lives because we've all got different challenges right that are just that they feel so alone.

1:04:14

And I think if more of us were doing this let's tell their stories too.

How many more people are going to feel connected to that and and maybe and and to have some resource because nobody knows what stuff nobody knows what to do when it's themselves is suffering an addiction.

Never mind when it's a loved one, right?

1:04:30

Like those waters are fucked up.

You know.

Throw in to throw in a child throwing multiple children to child with autism and child whatever, whatever the challenge is and that that whole thing just becomes so much harder, right?

And I feel really strongly about making sure that those stories are represented for for all the reasons that I just said in more I.

1:04:48

Think it's important?

Tina says I'm always around, but Brianna has my heart and I hate to.

I hate to break that to you, Tina, but this is my woman.

This is my girl.

She didn't.

Say that she has.

My I hate.

The same thing I am right?

You're like you.

Like Brianna has my heart.

1:05:04

Yeah, well.

I'm sorry.

Well, then, I hate to break it to you, but you're my woman.

Listen, we we didn't.

Have your mind or laughed about?

This last listen, the last hour, has been absolutely amazing.

We could probably go forever, but I I will be honest with you.

1:05:21

I got to work early in the morning or I'm going to be an asshole.

So you know.

But if you do, if you guys, if you do enjoy what we talked about today, let.

Me tell you this who he has to wake up early, but then he comes home and goes back to sleep.

It doesn't matter.

I still got to wake up early.

But at the end of the day, if you, if you guys literally have enjoyed like what we've done today and you guys want to hear more, please give us, give us feedback in the comments and I'm going to let Chuck take it away to end us out of here today.

1:05:47

So for this, I'll I'll peek behind the curtain.

Because, Brianna, I want you in on this too.

You got to, you got to do the, the, the.

Do you know what I'm talking about?

The three words that you got to say.

She doesn't know it yet, so explain it.

OK, so you got to whisper it to her while I'm talking and then hopefully you get it together, right?

Just when you when you tap her on the leg, that's her cue.

1:06:03

There you go.

All right, Ryan knows what to say.

You want.

Me to say all right.

Of course I want everybody to say it.

I was doing that recently on the rambling.

It works really well.

All right, all right.

OK, if you're an active, I just thought because usually we have the daily gratitudes that lead into it.

1:06:23

Now I'm not doing those.

So we have to, we might have to introduce daily gratitudes, brother, because that's such an important thing, right?

But anyway, listen, if you are an active addiction right now, today could be the day.

Today could be the day that you started a lifelong journey.

Reach out to a friend, Reach out to a family member, Call into detox, Go to a meeting.

1:06:39

I don't give a shit.

Do whatever it is you've got to do to get that journey started because it is so much better than the alternative.

And if you have a loved one who is suffering an addiction right now, you're just taking the time to listen to this conversation.

If you could just take another minute out of your day and text that person, let them know they are loved.

1:06:56

Use the words.

You are loved.

That little glimmer of hope just might be the thing that brings them back.

And I am Chuck Laflange with the Ashes to Awesome Podcast.

Everybody reminds me to.

1:07:15

Cram your episode.

You hit stop yet because you just fucked with my ending after I did that.

Like you're crazy.

Are you crazy, man?

You.

You didn't say.

I will fly to New York right fucking now.

Do that.

Do it.

I dare you to.

Hey, and you better bring me time travel.

1:07:31

You better bring me a fucking elephant's right.

OK, I've been.

I've been giving this guy shit since he moved to Thailand, I said.

You got to see elephants.

I said I want to ride a fucking.

What happened?

Yeah, we don't.

We don't ride.

Elephants.

That's my favorite animal.

Elephant.

1:07:46

I want to ride an elephant.

I want to go to Thailand and ride an elephant so bad.

No.

And I told him this morning, Do you know who rides elephants in Thailand?

Americans.

Those.

Americans, he goes.

Asshole Americans, yeah.

I would look American for that, yeah.

No you don't.

They can go, you can appreciate them, they can eat out of you.

1:08:03

Thanks Sweary.

I think you can even sleep with the big hairy mother fuckers.

But you cannot under any circumstances ride an elephant and still be a good person in Thailand.

It's not a thing really, right?

Those elephants hell life to get like they're treated horribly, terribly.

I don't tell you.

That that's my that's my way to show them that they are loved.

1:08:20

So I'm just.

Saying you're going to support the guy that keeps them on a chain and beats someone.

They don't.

Yeah, no, not bad.

No, no.

Are we still alive by the?

Way we are still alive.

I'm insulting Americans and we're live.

Let's not do that.

We love all the elements.

1:08:37

So we love the energy and.

You can see the clock let's.

TuneIn.

Maybe.

Maybe we won't be boycotted.

OK, maybe we might be able to come.

Back on.

I didn't saw the Americans before.

I'm OK.

All right guys, let.

Me all figured out.

Still don't have to read no books.

1:08:53

Yeah.

Thanks guys.

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