154 - KALEIDOSCOPE WEDNESDAY - PART 1 OF 3 CONNECTION

. Chuck:

Hey, listeners. Welcome back to another episode of Kaleidoscope Wednesday. I'm your host, Chuck LaFLnage, and I am sitting in studio with, or in virtual studio. I always make that mistake with Ryan Bathgate. How are you doing today, Ryan?

RBK Kaleidoscope:

Hey, I'm doing pretty good, man. I'm full of fire and brimstone, buddy.

Chuck:

Yeah, fire and brimstone. When I hear fire and brimstone, I'm like, beware evil doers stuff, like God

RBK Kaleidoscope:

Hehehehe

Chuck:

is smiting you. That's what I think of when I hear brimstone, right? So

RBK Kaleidoscope:

Bye!

Chuck:

I don't think energy, I think, crushed the poor people having an orgy in Sodom and Gomorrah. That's what I think,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

Why

Chuck:

right?

RBK Kaleidoscope:

would anyone want to do that? Ha ha

Chuck:

I don't

RBK Kaleidoscope:

ha.

Chuck:

know, I don't know. They're just having orgies. Oh, geez, oh, we gotta,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

Yeah,

Chuck:

oh,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

I don't.

Chuck:

fuck. Okay, we can't do that anymore. I'll tell

RBK Kaleidoscope:

Yeah.

Chuck:

you why. We can't. Fuck. Okay. Hey listeners, welcome to another edition of Kaleidoscope Wednesday on the Ashes to Ossip podcast. I'm your host Chuck LaFlandre and I'm in virtual studio with Ryan Bathgate. How you doing today Ryan?

RBK Kaleidoscope:

Chuck, I am doing pretty good, man. I've had some time away, and a little bit of recharge, and reinvigorated, and I've got a few ideas. I can tell you that.

Chuck:

That's awesome, that's awesome. That makes my heart happy. I did not have time away. I've been working my ass off the whole time you were gone, so that happened.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

Yep.

Chuck:

But yeah, my day will come eventually. So we've been talking, and to the listeners, what we would like to do is a three-part series on connection. So... The first part would be, we're gonna do this right now, speaking to the history of connection and what it means to be connected and all those things, did I say that right? Is that how you wanna word that?

RBK Kaleidoscope:

Yeah, I mean, I would use the word ontological, but then I'd probably

Chuck:

$20

RBK Kaleidoscope:

get in trouble

Chuck:

word. Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

for that. You know, it's a really let's take a look at like what connection is, you know, what we need in order for it to even recognize the importance of it. And we do that usually typically by what implies the other. And so I really this started for me by talking by thinking about how loneliness impactful place to be and I believe that loneliness itself changes who we are and that does not necessarily mean for the worst but it does imply something and

Chuck:

I think

RBK Kaleidoscope:

I

Chuck:

loneliness would go for the worst though, right? I mean,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

Yeah.

Chuck:

because lonely is that's a feeling that's not just being alone, and being alone isn't gonna hurt you, but being lonely, yeah, fuck,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

Well,

Chuck:

right?

RBK Kaleidoscope:

I think, you know,

Chuck:

That can

RBK Kaleidoscope:

and what...

Chuck:

get, we'll see, yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

One of the things that I had to learn in my life is the difference being a super introvert. I needed to know the difference between the loneliness and alone.

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

Because being alone is a great place for me, but being lonely is devastating. You know what

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

I mean? And so that's where this all comes from for me is like really, really spending time with thinking about that. And I think I'd sense something, you know, just in our talking that speaks to like really like we have all of these subjects in the world that we delve into whether it be sports or money or I don't know like the interests that people have you know I don't know how many times I get somebody on Instagram messaging me about stocks and Bitcoin and like I don't

Chuck:

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

RBK Kaleidoscope:

give a shit about that like you know you know what I mean like but people are into that and like so then I was like well why isn't anybody why aren't we talking about studying the most important thing of mankind or humankind, which would be connection.

Chuck:

selection.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

Why are we not studying that? Why does everybody not know everything there is to know about connection? And what would the world look like if everybody did?

Chuck:

Ah, okay, okay. So some inspiration there, stuff I didn't even know, some behind the curtain there. Yeah, I've never noticed,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

Well, my mind races.

Chuck:

I've never noticed. Yeah, I see, I see. All right, so the idea in today's episode then, we want to really explore what connection is and where it comes from. And you're gonna have to expand on that, because to me, this is a two minute conversation. That's why we got you, right? So, right?

RBK Kaleidoscope:

Okay, so I mean, let's just look at, you know, I think everyone can relate to some sense of this. If we look at this from an emotional perspective, I think that we, you know, we come into this world and we know two things. Those things are hunger and love, right? Specifically, you know, that connection between the, you know, mother and baby. So... As I'm thinking about that, I'm like, well, what is it that changes us and hardens our hearts and makes us into people that can be, you know, evil or awful or, you know? And it occurred to me that it's the other side of love that really is what creates this like disdain for one's own existence. And that other side of love is obviously hard. hurt or pain. Pain being such an important part of the process of evolving as human beings. But what we do, we're taught that pain is something we need to avoid and it's a bad thing and we need to stay away from it and ouch it hurts and it's very uncomfortable and blah blah. But the reality is that it's an essential part of us to be able to grow. And so all of this idea of what connection is comes from a place of the other side of And I'm thinking, I'm sitting and thinking about, like I don't think, you know, like my daughter's being born was a big moment in my life. And then I'm like, okay, you know, like I graduated grad school, that was a big moment in my life. And then I thought to myself, you know, I don't think anything holds a candle to my experience with loneliness as far as changing who I am as a human being and how deeply that impacted me. It skewed my view of the world, my perception changed, my values changed, my belief systems changed, and most importantly, I discovered a... desperate urge to cope with that loneliness. You know, and so like, you know, we do a lot of talk about addiction and recovery here, but I think that loneliness transcends that. I mean, how many people use money, power, prestige, ego, the many, many masks that we wear in order to avoid that idea of loneliness? And loneliness is a direct result of this like, programed idea that rejection equals death, certain death.

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

And so those two are so tied closely together. And if we look at, you know, like, you know, on the weekend, I was listening to the ramble and we're talking a lot about the downtown east side. And all I heard there was about, wow, what a lot of loneliness that's happening there, so much so that people are so far away from their essence that there is no glimpse or glimmer of what the human being behind those eyes looks like.

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

You know what I mean? And so and that's really where like it's to be. I'll be frank. The ramble is where I got this idea from, listening to that.

Chuck:

Okay.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

And you know, I've spent time downtown on both sides of the fence. And I know that like, it is, I'll just like, you know, years and years ago, I spent time down there in treatment. And the first month was about envy.

Chuck:

For who?

RBK Kaleidoscope:

For me.

Chuck:

Okay,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

for all

Chuck:

yep.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

the people that were using out there.

Chuck:

Oh, okay.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

It was like, man, those people get to get high every day. You know what I mean? Like, you know,

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

and then. And as that evolved, I started to see a little bit of a deeper, more saturated view of what was happening there. And

Chuck:

Okay.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

it was more about the obsession of coping with my loneliness had dissipated through the connection I had with the people I was there with. And what emerged from that was this really sad view of loneliness in action to such an really like devastating their life world by using these coping mechanisms and coping strategies that we know as heroin addiction or whatever the addiction is.

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

But then I'm working, while I was going to school years ago, I was working at the shelter down there and right next door to the shelter was this 24 hour gym. And I saw people obsessed with fitness, and people obsessed with money and prestige and power coming there at 4.30 in the morning to work out, and then coming back again after work at 10 o'clock at night to work out, driving

Chuck:

That's a lonely

RBK Kaleidoscope:

their,

Chuck:

existence, right?

RBK Kaleidoscope:

yeah,

Chuck:

Yeah,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

driving

Chuck:

yeah,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

their Land Rovers, and I'm

Chuck:

yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

thinking, and I see wedding rings on people's hands. And

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

I'm like, I wonder how good that marriage is going. You know what I mean?

Chuck:

Right? Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

And so it occurred to me, what is the difference between the guy that's sitting doing a smash in his neck and the guy that is going in and working out and doing everything he can to make more money and be more socially seen as a powerful component of our society.

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

And the difference is that at least the guy on the corner knows what the problem is.

Chuck:

Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, I guess so. I guess

RBK Kaleidoscope:

You know

Chuck:

so.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

what I

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

mean? And have you been to any meetings or seen it, heard of any meetings for people that are addicted to power and prestige and money and

Chuck:

Nope, nope,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

what their T4

Chuck:

nope.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

says and what their business cards

Chuck:

None

RBK Kaleidoscope:

say?

Chuck:

of that, none

RBK Kaleidoscope:

Right,

Chuck:

of that, right? Yeah,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

right.

Chuck:

yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

So at least that guy's got a solution.

Chuck:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

Yeah, and so like, you know, and listening to the ramble, it really put me self, I haven't been down there in quite a while.

Chuck:

Okay.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

And so it kind of put myself back there. And I was like, man, you know what? The other thing that really happens down there is that there is such a strong sense of community within the residents of the downtown Eastside. And... It's actually astounding like in doing in working down there. You could really see a lot of love happening now let's not Be convoluted that you know the addiction always wins it always takes over

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

And so you know when it comes down to the material things of I'm gonna rip this guy for ten bucks or whatever That's gonna happen But there's also that element of people that are when someone is dope sick they'll they will give

Chuck:

Right,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

away their last

Chuck:

I

RBK Kaleidoscope:

shirt.

Chuck:

spoke to that

RBK Kaleidoscope:

Yeah,

Chuck:

and that,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

yeah

Chuck:

yeah

RBK Kaleidoscope:

You

Chuck:

man,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

did

Chuck:

that never ceased to amaze me. Right, of course not being a fentanyl user, never was, never went into opiates, but being, I was around it a lot, and I just, I used to like, wow, you're gonna be in a lot of pain in like an hour because you did that. Right, like holy crap, hey,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

Yeah.

Chuck:

and they don't even think twice. You know,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

No, they're

Chuck:

it's

RBK Kaleidoscope:

not.

Chuck:

normal for them to do it, right? You

RBK Kaleidoscope:

You

Chuck:

know, and

RBK Kaleidoscope:

know,

Chuck:

then, yep, yep.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

I think of a good friend of mine that, I mean, I don't know how many times I send him a hundred bucks just so he wouldn't be dope sick because I know how awful it is, you know,

Chuck:

Right? Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

and I will, and I'd like to inform that today that guy's clean and sober

Chuck:

Yep.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

and alive, most importantly,

Chuck:

Yeah. Right. So.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

you know, and so like, so, but I mean, what really came about with all of that is like, you know, we talk about, we talk about love being the answer all the time in the show. And it is, but how do, how does it, it's love is transactional. Love is just an idea until it is in action with another human being. It is not real until it is in transaction. And what do we need to make that happen? Connection being the medium,

Chuck:

Yeah, absolutely, right? Absolutely.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

you know, or the conduit, whatever you want to call it.

Chuck:

Okay, yep, yep.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

And so, you know, and so like, I just want to look at like. What is, let's look at what loneliness truly is. Like how do we experience that? How do we feel it? How do, do we even know it's there? And most of the time we don't. We don't

Chuck:

You

RBK Kaleidoscope:

know

Chuck:

think

RBK Kaleidoscope:

what

Chuck:

so?

RBK Kaleidoscope:

the,

Chuck:

Yeah?

RBK Kaleidoscope:

well, I mean, we usually, and this is in my experience, especially in therapeutic sessions, is it turns into shame so quickly that it doesn't get a

Chuck:

Okay,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

chance to

Chuck:

okay,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

resonate

Chuck:

yep.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

as loneliness.

Chuck:

Okay, yep,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

You know what I mean?

Chuck:

yep.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

It's, I'm not good enough. I don't deserve connection.

Chuck:

That makes sense to me.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

And so shame plays a massive role in reinforcing and sustaining loneliness over and over again, especially when we start to do the actions that we do, when we need whatever we need to cope.

Chuck:

Yeah, yeah, right.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

And we will do that in an animalistic way that

Chuck:

I was

RBK Kaleidoscope:

is...

Chuck:

just saying to Lena last night who's very close to the show of course we're talking about something unrelated and well not unrelated not unrelated at all right kind of my story but I was telling her that not feeling loved was horrible like horrible not feeling lovable was it dwarfed anything that not feeling loved felt like

RBK Kaleidoscope:

So,

Chuck:

right

RBK Kaleidoscope:

back to the

Chuck:

you

RBK Kaleidoscope:

tenants.

Chuck:

know Right? Yeah. Right. So that's the shame that that's all there.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

Yeah. Um, sorry, I just got a thing that confused me. Um, so, and that's exactly it. It's like, yes, love is feeling loved is great,

Chuck:

Yep.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

but it's incomplete.

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

It, which makes it unsustainable. As soon as I walk out of that connection, if I'm not feeling lovable, it's gone. And that, you know, like when you bring those four, those four proponents of being seen, being heard, feeling loved and feeling lovable, the reason that four came about was because I recognized how quickly it goes away once we don't have the confidence to sustain it within our being.

Chuck:

Yeah, yeah, right,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

Yeah,

Chuck:

right.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

and so, and like, and I only go back to the same thing over and over again, like, for most of us, you know, in these difficult upbringings and things like that, people, one part of the human condition is that we are fallible. And you can guarantee that every single person in your life at some point will let you down. And you will let them down. And that will happen in every relationship you

Chuck:

Yep.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

ever have.

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

Which, and so, the one, when you take a solution like Jim Beasley, cream, fentanyl, China White, whatever it is,

Chuck:

Yep.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

and it changes the way you feel every time. It becomes the most consistent thing in your life. Therefore, consistency equals safety. Now we think that is the safe way. We do that enough times that it creates a neural lock and now we have an addictive cycle. It happens that fast and nobody is impervious. It's not a moral thing. It's not a it's based on biology and so loneliness at the root of that I Think is just like it's such a devastating and subtle decompensation of our own human spirit. And

Chuck:

Okay.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

again, we often don't even, I mean, we say, yeah, I feel lonely, but underneath that, it's typically the driver of that is usually because I don't deserve,

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

I don't deserve to feel connected.

Chuck:

I would say, probably almost all the time, right? Yeah,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

Right, so

Chuck:

yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

now we're talking about shame's role within loneliness and how those

Chuck:

Absolutely.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

two work together to just keep us down. And we're not helped. There's no help. As far as capitalist North American society, we are programmed this way. We are taught this. We are taught to be the best. They always say the general is a lonely job, right? But

Chuck:

Yep.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

everybody is striving to be the general. We've got to climb that ladder. We've got to make more money. We've got to have more things. And I know like, you know, like in high school, like I had different pockets of friends, which means I had different masks, I had different identities.

Chuck:

Absolutely. Can relate to that

RBK Kaleidoscope:

You

Chuck:

one.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

know what I mean? And like,

Chuck:

For sure. Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

how exhausting is that? When underneath all of that,

Chuck:

Mm-hmm.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

I felt I was lonely.

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

I lived in loneliness. My state of being was loneliness. As I'm sitting here saying that, my counter of that is that my goal today is a state of peace at all times. When do I feel most peaceful?

Chuck:

alone.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

When I'm connected with

Chuck:

Oh

RBK Kaleidoscope:

those

Chuck:

okay,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

I love.

Chuck:

sorry.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

What were you going to say?

Chuck:

I said, well, when you're alone, right?

RBK Kaleidoscope:

No, it's not. You know what? I'll give you an example. Saturday just coming back from the lake like doing 50 miles an hour down the lake with Wind in my hair and music playing and all my family and my friends family in the boat and I'm smiling year to year Because I feel so connected to the world

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

You know and in a place of beauty there's mountains surrounding us a calm lake Really warm really it's a really warm out here right now the really warm summer air like and it was just like You know, I didn't have a single drug or alcohol, nothing in my system. I did not need any of that to achieve that state of elation.

Chuck:

Okay.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

You know what I mean?

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

And I think also, you know, like one thing, if I could add anything, please don't go boating and drink. It's an awful thing.

Chuck:

Hahaha

RBK Kaleidoscope:

80% of all boating accidents happen with alcohol involved. Okay, anyway. So.

Chuck:

Yeah. Jesus. Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

We go to this beach and there's just people just wasted

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

and getting in boats and I'm like, oh my God. And their kids are hopping on, but they got life jackets on, they'll be okay. Come

Chuck:

Yep.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

on.

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

Anyway, and we went through a road check two weeks ago and they had like nine people pulled over getting

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

DUIs coming out of the boat launch. And

Chuck:

Okay, yep.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

my thought is, there go I. That's my childhood. They didn't have

Chuck:

Yep.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

those road blocks when I, you know.

Chuck:

Yeah, no, they didn't. Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

Yeah, you know, like, my dad would have had 55 DUIs.

Chuck:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

But anyway, so like, how did I get to that place of 50 miles an hour on the lake, loving everything about my existence, when,

Chuck:

Yep.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

you know, 15 years ago, I was, among 7.6 billion people in this world, I was so alone, and it funneled

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

that, based on social programming, I funneled it into anger against everything.

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

I was angry about everything and everyone. And mostly it was a projection of my own self-hatred that was reinforced by shame, that I was not enough, I did not deserve love, I did not deserve connection.

Chuck:

Yep.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

And

Chuck:

Yeah, right.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

so when we really think about what this is, I mean the questions we ask ourselves now is like, what is my, you know, let's use a CBT scale, out of 10, what is my loneliness right now? What if I ask myself that question, where am I gonna score? You

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

know? And then I would go, What is my need to cope right now? And those, I bet you those two are pretty, pretty

Chuck:

Pretty close, yeah,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

co-enseya,

Chuck:

you

RBK Kaleidoscope:

you

Chuck:

know

RBK Kaleidoscope:

know what

Chuck:

they

RBK Kaleidoscope:

I mean?

Chuck:

are, yeah,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

And like,

Chuck:

yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

and then, and you know, and like, and when have I, what was the last time I, and this is why like I love Brene Brownsworth, because she talks so much about vulnerability, and I think that, you know, that is the answer. And we cannot, but we cannot have vulnerability without courage, it's impossible, because it takes, it takes a lot to put my emotions and my feelings out there for someone to see. not be able to control how they're gonna use those emotions.

Chuck:

Oh, yeah, you had to say that, did you? Right? It's shit. I don't even think about what happens when people see me or hear me get emotional. Right? But

RBK Kaleidoscope:

Yeah, but I mean, you know, like, Chuckie, you've

Chuck:

I'm just

RBK Kaleidoscope:

got,

Chuck:

kidding.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

you mean, you've always had that, that you care what people think to a degree. I think you care where it's important. I don't

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

think, like, you've always been someone that can say how you feel, but most of us are

Chuck:

Yep.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

like that. You

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

know, like, I have to put on a persona. I need you to, especially where I'm at now, like, with the job I do and even the show, you know, like, the amount of questions I get, it's like, I have to be this person, and I also really want to do. be human man. I want you to see me as fallible so I don't have that pressure of being

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

something that I'm actually not.

Chuck:

Yeah, yeah,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

And so

Chuck:

fair enough.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

what do I do? I accept all my faults in glory. I accept myself as a human being that is completely capable of making terrible devastating mistakes at any given time.

Chuck:

Yeah, yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

It

Chuck:

Do

RBK Kaleidoscope:

seems

Chuck:

you also

RBK Kaleidoscope:

like...

Chuck:

saw my, yeah, as it goes. Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

The more that I'm aware of that, the more that mitigates those mistakes. And the more that I can say this is how I feel to another

Chuck:

Mm-hmm.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

human being is, you know, now that kind of makes me tangent a little bit, but like we also don't we don't want that to be an identity badge either. Like, I don't want the world to think that I'm just as like, oh, here comes Ryan. He's going to tell me about how he feels again. I'm great. You know what I mean? Like.

Chuck:

Here comes

RBK Kaleidoscope:

You

Chuck:

the feeling wheel.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

know,

Chuck:

Here it goes. Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

like, oh, I can't wait. Yeah. Right, and so I kind of like what Brené Brown talks about is she talks about earning the right to be vulnerable to hear my, she says, people in your life have to earn the right to hear your story.

Chuck:

Fair enough, right? Fair

RBK Kaleidoscope:

In

Chuck:

enough,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

other words,

Chuck:

yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

like, and this is, and it really, in the counter of that, or the other side of that, what it implies is that there are people out there that don't have the right. There are people out there that will abuse that vulnerability, that will negotiate it and use it against you. And it's a sad thing, but what I would like to do is be able to have containment and open space for those people. Now, if I recognize my vulnerabilities being used against me, then I want to actually, who I want to be as a human being is somebody

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

to put that aside and ask them, what is this a projection of? What is underneath that herd? You know what I mean? Like, let's talk

Chuck:

No kidding.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

about that, because right now, you're dangling keys on me, man.

Chuck:

Yeah, hey.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

Yeah,

Chuck:

Yep.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

so

Chuck:

Okay.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

like when I think about what loneliness is, it's just an existential ache.

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

And you

Chuck:

Yep.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

know, like my entire world is, it's a prison. And so like when I think about, when I really think about what those things are made of, like what are the bricks in my prison walls made of? How have I created this? You know, and I go, you know, I talk about that bucket over the plant, right?

Chuck:

Yep.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

I need to be nurtured. In other words, I need, you know, my love is my sunshine. Connection

Chuck:

Yep.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

is my rain, you know, and my home is my sanctuary or my soil. And so I'm going to have tension. I'm gonna have, there's gonna be gusting winds. There's gonna be a storm. And those, that's where I get strength from. And so I needed to explore, I need to know what loneliness is inside and out before I could even comprehend the importance of connection.

Chuck:

Okay, okay,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

You

Chuck:

I

RBK Kaleidoscope:

know,

Chuck:

like it.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

and like,

Chuck:

Yep.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

what if, what if connection wasn't a coping mechanism, but it was a strategy for fulfillment? You know what I mean? Like, and then,

Chuck:

Yep.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

I don't, and it's very easy to say that connection is just another coping strategy, sure.

Chuck:

Yeah,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

But

Chuck:

yeah,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

it's one that does, go ahead.

Chuck:

I don't feel that it is. I don't feel, not for a second do I take that,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

But

Chuck:

right?

RBK Kaleidoscope:

even if

Chuck:

Connection,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

it was.

Chuck:

it's too important to our, that's evolved in us as a need, not as a coping mechanism of some sort, right? I mean, you

RBK Kaleidoscope:

Absolutely,

Chuck:

know, right,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

but

Chuck:

yeah,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

even if

Chuck:

yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

it was,

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

I would say that the communities can be a coping mechanism, for example.

Chuck:

Yep.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

But at least they're not one that's going to take away my house, my family, my kids. It

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

may be a place that I

Chuck:

Right.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

have to go to get self-worth, and my identity relies on it. But I don't think, I agree, I don't think that connection is a co-existence. I think it's an evolutionary state of being that

Chuck:

Yes.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

gives, that is a medium to peace, to a peaceful existence, which is my everyday ultimate goal.

Chuck:

Yeah, of course.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

You know, I just want to live my life in peace. I mean, happiness is not sustainable. We can enjoy happiness while it's here, but we can expect it to be gone

Chuck:

Yeah, right. Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

because it's an emotion, right? So it's not going to stay.

Chuck:

Exactly.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

So yeah. You know that first statement I said about how loneliness changes us?

Chuck:

Yep, yep.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

In the beginning, it does not change us for the better, because we don't understand it. We don't know what it is.

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

Ultimately, it doesn't drive us or propel us to be better, like guilt would, because then we have to discover shame, or we've already known shame in those two, or can and hand.

Chuck:

Yeah. Yeah, right.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

So I haven't said that. I think if we look at those components, what does loneliness feel like? And I think that's a really good question to ask ourselves.

Chuck:

Yeah, yeah,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

I'm gonna ask you right now.

Chuck:

right. To dissect loneliness, like in a feeling wheel type of

RBK Kaleidoscope:

Yes,

Chuck:

thing?

RBK Kaleidoscope:

yes. What is it, from an emotional perspective, what does loneliness feel like?

Chuck:

See, sad's too easy, but sad is, I mean.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

Sad, sure, but is sad

Chuck:

Right?

RBK Kaleidoscope:

not? See, she was sad. I find it easy

Chuck:

chicken

RBK Kaleidoscope:

to,

Chuck:

or the egg thing now, right?

RBK Kaleidoscope:

well,

Chuck:

Lonely, sad, lonely,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

I think

Chuck:

right?

RBK Kaleidoscope:

sad is easy to navigate because we can still be peaceful with sadness.

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

I see sadness as a rainy Sunday.

Chuck:

Yeah, yeah, well, see, whereas for me, it's much more ugly than that, right? Yeah, yeah, it

RBK Kaleidoscope:

So,

Chuck:

is.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

yep.

Chuck:

Well, not necessarily sad, but lonely, is it, if you're trying to dissect it that way. I don't know, honestly, how to describe it. I know it's horrible, and it's something for me that I still wrestle with quite a bit, right? So, I don't know. I

RBK Kaleidoscope:

Well,

Chuck:

don't know how the hell I would describe that. Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

so I'm speaking to, I think sadness is a really good descriptor, but in its purity, it's not it. But let's

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

take sadness and let's add disappointment. Let's

Chuck:

Mm-hmm,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

add

Chuck:

okay, yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

distance.

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

Let's add fear. Let's add

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

shame. Let's add not enough. You know,

Chuck:

Yep.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

put all that together.

Chuck:

Yeah, that's a pretty nasty cocktail there, right?

RBK Kaleidoscope:

And

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

then maybe I'm not good enough for potential.

Chuck:

Yeah,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

Maybe

Chuck:

yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

I'm not as smart

Chuck:

Loveable,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

as I think

Chuck:

right?

RBK Kaleidoscope:

I am. So let's

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

throw some doubt in there. Wow.

Chuck:

Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

And look at the place we're in now from an emotional perspective. And we add all of those elements and then we'd start to question things like, what am I doing with my life? I'm never going to measure up to XYZ, sister, brother,

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

uncle, parents, you know, and the social dynamics of like, you need to be the best to be validated. And I've never been the best at anything,

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

you know, which is very true.

Chuck:

I mean, I usually settle in around adequate I shoot for awesome, but I settled in around adequate. Let's be honest, right?

RBK Kaleidoscope:

Yeah,

Chuck:

That's how that goes.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

and especially like, you know, like, I have this incredibly awful torment of loving sports and being shitty at them.

Chuck:

I've

RBK Kaleidoscope:

And

Chuck:

talked about this a few

RBK Kaleidoscope:

I

Chuck:

times.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

love

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

them and I'm terrible at everything I do. You know, it's so like, when I look at the sports world, I'm like, fuck, I'm lonely. And

Chuck:

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

RBK Kaleidoscope:

you know, the baseball world is like, if you hit home runs, you're cool. I don't hit home runs. So, you know, like

Chuck:

Yeah,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

I give,

Chuck:

yeah, yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

and I'm fairly successful in other areas of my life.

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

But

Chuck:

Yep.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

it was, I had to become a human being to people in that community to be accepted because home runs weren't getting me there.

Chuck:

Yeah, yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

Creative you know what I mean? And so like but I mean like okay look let's just transcend that into anything Like

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

I don't know like my friends like to ride bikes, and I suck at riding bikes I don't my friends like to

Chuck:

Yep.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

write books, and I suck at

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

writing You know what I mean like and so we can we can always and this is this is kind of like a I don't know if it's a Maybe a life hack. I don't know, but what

Chuck:

Yep.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

we will always find what we're looking for And if we're looking for the reasons why we're not enough we'll find them

Chuck:

story.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

And what they don't teach us is to find reason. Because from the generations before, transgenerationally, we

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

were taught to look at our defects to get better.

Chuck:

Okay.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

without appreciating what we're good at to maintain. You know what I mean? And that is, that comes from the agriculture days of if you don't get better, you don't eat and die in the winter. You know

Chuck:

Right? Yeah, yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

what I mean? So what about a comprehensive look? What if we started to look at, it's so much easier for me to be connected to you when I know

Chuck:

Yep.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

that I'm good at one thing.

Chuck:

Right? Yep.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

You know? Then it is to like, well, I hope if I say this, is he going to reject me? What if I do this?

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

What if he thinks I'm that? You know, and all this like, we don't like, and we're not. We're, human beings are a lot of things. The most

Chuck:

Yep.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

amazing is our resiliency. I think that it just astounds me that the human

Chuck:

Yep.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

being, human beings resiliency is just like such a phenomenal, phenomenological quest. But if we look at like, what, what we're not is fucking mind readers.

Chuck:

Yeah, yeah, right.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

And we do it all the time. And think about how that affects or reinforces our loneliness.

Chuck:

Oh yeah,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

Because

Chuck:

right,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

I'm never

Chuck:

yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

like, I bet you he's thinking I'm awesome. That never happens.

Chuck:

No it does not no it does not.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

No, it's like that guy can see the zit on my chin from 40 miles away.

Chuck:

Yep yep.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

You know what I mean? My love handles, like everybody can see them. And like.

Chuck:

Oh I got used to those a long time ago.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

Yeah, yeah, you can just rest my arm on one with a beer in my hand.

Chuck:

hahahaha

RBK Kaleidoscope:

Good old days. Yeah. So, I mean, you know, like, so it's when we really look and have a look in at what loneliness is, it's such a devastating. feeling, state of being. I don't think I can say it's a feeling because I think it's a state, like peace is a state. I think loneliness is also a state. And the way that we navigate that, we do it internally. We do it without any vulnerability, which reinforces it and creates those prison walls. And so when I look at what those bricks are, they are, I'm not enough. I don't measure up. I don't deserve. I'm not capable of. And I'll never be, you

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

know?

Chuck:

Yeah, right.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

And really those bricks are masks and we just encompass ourselves with this until there's no room left and I'm suffocating under the pressure of never being enough.

Chuck:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

And so what do I do? I come across something like, for me, Southern Comfort. So, encumber was my first step out of my own self-made prison at 10 years old.

Chuck:

Haha, fuck

RBK Kaleidoscope:

You

Chuck:

it.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

know? And

Chuck:

Yeah,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

then whatever

Chuck:

yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

else came after that. And that's so

Chuck:

Yep.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

obvious that it's treatable, not to use medical terms, but there's so many things in place when it comes to addiction. But what about the other ones? What about

Chuck:

Yeah,

RBK Kaleidoscope:

sex?

Chuck:

right.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

What about food? What about

Chuck:

Yep.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

image? What about power,

Chuck:

Oh yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

money, greed?

Chuck:

Right.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

You know?

Chuck:

Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope:

So, when you look at the two biggest social maladies that we can think of, probably loneliness and greed. Those are probably the two things that are