165 - SHANNON BURNESS - ROCK BOTTOM IS DIFFERENT FOR EVERYONE

Chuck (00:01.742)
Hello, lizards. Welcome to another episode of the Ashles to Austin podcast. I'm your host Chuck LaFlandre and today we're doing a recovery episode. My guest is Shannon Burness. How you doing today, Shannon?

Shannon (00:12.193)
I'm doing great Chuck. Thanks for having me here. I'm really excited to do this.

Chuck (00:16.634)
Good stuff. Thank you for coming on. Thank you for coming on. So it occurs to me now there's a couple mutual connections between us and that's how we end up here. You know both are my lovely Dr. Lisa, my weekend co-host, and Zane, or Zan, sorry, Zan, geez, who we did a great episode with a couple months back. I guess I'll have to quote that number in the show notes. Yeah.

Shannon (00:29.415)
Mm-hmm.

Shannon (00:36.869)
Yeah, I listened to his episode. It was quite, yeah, I can't remember which one it was, but yeah, Zan and I have talked quite a bit through our recovery and Lisa, I went to high school with Lisa, we're the same age, so graduated together.

Chuck (00:45.716)
Okay. Yeah.

Chuck (00:50.278)
Okay, okay. I would inspire would be see the place with the big truck. Right, right. Of course they do, of course they do, right. I feel like, I feel like I would have been there smoking pot at that truck or doing mushrooms when I was, yeah, that would have been me back then, right. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure there was, I'm sure there was. So, like we talked about at the beginning of the show, or before we started recording, recovery stories are great for me. You just get to, you know, if you just

Shannon (00:53.849)
Yes, yes, not so everybody knows it.

Shannon (01:03.782)
Yes. Yeah. Oh yeah.

Shannon (01:09.145)
There's a lot of that, yes.

Chuck (01:20.374)
But if you could start from the first time you remember trying a substance. If you could tell me about that and then we can go into the story. There's something about that just really interests me every time I hear it. So if you could maybe start there, if that sounds good. Yep.

Shannon (01:32.721)
Sure, yeah, for sure.

The first time that I ever remember drinking alcohol, which was my drug of choice, was alcohol for sure, was when I was a child. It was a reward after getting my dad a beer from the fridge. I got to have a drink. I remember that it was really disgusting, but for some reason, my brother and I would still fight over who was getting dad a beer. For some reason, we thought, you know, the attention or something, there was something there that we just wanted to do that, right?

Chuck (01:49.983)
Okay.

Chuck (02:02.734)
Mm-hmm.

Shannon (02:06.78)
So that was the first time that I drank alcohol. The first time I ever got drunk was with one of my friends. We stole some Gibson's whiskey out of her dad's liquor cabinet. And I can't, even later on in drinking I could not drink whiskey again. But we, and of course didn't mix it with anything, we just drank it straight. And then we went down to meet some friends down at the bar.

Chuck (02:17.398)
That was my bottle of choice, the Gibson's, yeah.

Shannon (02:35.039)
at the rec center, which is like the pool slash arena in Sparwood. And I remember them being like, Oh, wow. You guys have been drinking. Like it was like this mixture of like judgment, uh, you know, cause we were in all of probably grade six, so quite young. Um, and I just, yeah, like it was just this warm.

Chuck (02:51.21)
Some reference in there maybe. Oh, geez, yeah. Do you remember how it made you feel?

Shannon (03:06.033)
inhibitions gone, made me feel like I could do whatever I wanted to do type thing. You know, I walk into any situation, you know, and that was from that first drunk I felt that.

Chuck (03:21.886)
Yeah, yeah. And I know it can be tough to really put yourself back in that moment, but do you suppose you had a sense of awareness to know that that's what it was doing for you or was it just this felt good at the time? I mean, yeah, yeah.

Shannon (03:33.729)
Just that it felt good at the time. I think like, you know, I didn't have any self-awareness as to what that good feeling would lead to or anything like that. Just that it felt good.

Chuck (03:45.818)
Okay, okay. And that's why, that particular line of questioning, getting to this point is why I asked that one, because I just, I find the different answers really, you know, interesting and compelling to listen to. So now we can continue on with your recovery story. Your 12 step story or whatever. Yeah, yeah. Go ahead.

Shannon (03:55.169)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, for sure.

Sure, yeah. So, yeah.

Okay, sounds good. So that was my first adventure in drinking. And as you said, I grew up in that small town, Sparwood, which is, I don't know, maybe 3,000-4,000 people back then. It's a coal mining town. It lived by the philosophy, work hard, play hard. Everybody made good incomes there, so there was lots of disposable income for families.

And with that came like a lot of partying and everybody worked shift work so you'd have four days on four days off and you'd party for your four days off and go back to work, you know, for your four days.

But you know with that being a small town it was really kind of difficult to grow up there because there was a lot of Families that had been there for quite a few years and so they kind of created this network of clicks that were not very welcoming and you know if you Your whole goal is like, you know middle school high schoolers to fit in not stand out not do anything out of the ordinary but you know if you don't fit into that click then

Chuck (05:09.386)
Okay.

Shannon (05:21.752)
Where does that leave you, right?

Chuck (05:23.41)
Absolutely.

Shannon (05:25.949)
And you know, even as early as elementary school, like I was saying, when I first had my first drunk, you know, the people were, the girls were really not very nice. So, yeah, no, there was a definite group that everybody wanted to be part of and they just would be very selective. And sometimes you're in, sometimes you're out, you know, so that

Chuck (05:41.448)
No.

Shannon (05:56.503)
The reason why I'm bringing that up is because it kind of led to a lack of self esteem probably. Like a lack of belonging, a lack of knowing where you fit in, that sort of thing. And so with this first time drinking and feeling like I kind of slid into this fitting in or I kind of found what I was going to be doing, like I was going to be a party person, then I just ran with that.

Chuck (06:04.718)
Of course, of course. Yeah.

Shannon (06:25.803)
a binge drinker. So high school starts in grade eight there and I would say as soon as I got into high school I became a binge drinker because there there's nothing really to do per se other than go to bush parties and hang out with your friends. So yeah so I did a lot of binge drinking.

Chuck (06:34.702)
Okay.

Chuck (06:44.554)
Yep.

Shannon (06:50.961)
But so did a lot of other people. So it kind of felt like everybody was doing it. You know, now that I am out of that, I realize that probably wasn't the case, but... Exactly, yeah. Yeah, exactly. So, sorry.

Chuck (07:01.355)
That's the lens you've put on, right?

Chuck (07:08.743)
So there, it just occurs to me about something there. Lisa made a quote in one of our episodes a long time ago, I could play it for you now, but, this is the effect of, about when we refer to addiction as a choice, and she was speaking about her brother at the time, and said, well, you did it, and to an ex-boyfriend, and said, well, you did all the same things he did. He drank, he tried drugs, he partied, the same thing you did, difference is he couldn't turn it off.

Right, so I wonder if, and that's where we question the choice thing, right? He made all the same choices, we made the same choices everybody else did, but we just went a little too far, and then a lot too far with it, right? We never stopped, so I think that's the difference. So in this case now, with the benefit of hindsight, and all of this is through a lens of hindsight, because that's a reality right now, could you go back and say maybe that's where that happened, or why that happened, or?

Shannon (07:40.538)
Right.

Mm-hmm.

Shannon (07:48.885)
Exactly.

Chuck (08:03.99)
You know, that particular thing just really occurs to me a lot now every time I hear somebody talking about, you know, young age and students and that, right? But, you know.

Shannon (08:07.473)
Great.

Shannon (08:11.201)
Yeah, oh yeah, I'm sure it like laid that foundation for me for sure, you know. And you know, I'm sure lots of those people...

Chuck (08:16.767)
Yeah.

Shannon (08:21.989)
were able to turn it off and move on from that stage, right? Long before I did. Yeah, no, we were not those people. So, yeah, I don't know, lots of partying. When I was in high school, I met my son's father. So I have three children, they're 21, 17, and eight. So we were high school sweethearts. We dated for eight and a half years. We did a lot of drinking together.

Chuck (08:24.35)
Yeah, we weren't those people.

Chuck (08:42.911)
Okay.

Shannon (08:52.205)
um in Sparwood and then we also lived in Fort McMurray and I don't know if you ever been to Fort McMurray but it's a big party town uh so we did a lot of partying up there yeah exactly I worked in a bar up there so that even worked well into uh drinking

Chuck (08:58.518)
Oh yeah, for all the same reasons, right?

Shannon (09:13.021)
And so then found out I was pregnant when I was 21, I believe. Actually, it was right after 9-11 happened. So however many years ago that was, I can't remember. But yeah, found out I was pregnant and we moved down to this little town close to Edmonton. And had the baby.

Chuck (09:19.724)
Okay.

Chuck (09:26.198)
Yeah. 22.

Shannon (09:41.601)
and then figured out we were both super unhappy. So we kind of went our separate ways. I moved back to Sparwood, the little town, with my baby boy, he was about a year and a half old.

And so then I was fresh out of a long-term relationship. I was a young mom, so it was time to sow my wild oats. I felt like I had missed out on something. I felt like I needed some experiences. So yeah, I partied a lot. And through all this, with the drinking,

in a lot of unsafe situations. You know, that's one thing I really want to touch on is the loss of inhibition and the loss of cognitive ability, really, when you're in your addiction. It leads you to these unsafe situations and somewhere through the grace of what some people would call God. I survived everything, but you know, I had numerous times where, you know, we would be like, whoever's the soberest is dry.

Chuck (10:38.698)
Yeah.

Shannon (10:58.047)
that doesn't mean the person's not drunk. You know, situation with men, you know, not everybody has a good intention when it comes to a super drunk girl, you know.

Chuck (11:00.126)
Right? Right.

Chuck (11:06.294)
Yeah.

No.

No, they don't. It's one thing that I learned in detox. Hearing the stories from women, I was ashamed to be a man for some time, right? Just every single, every, without exception, woman in detox had at least one horror story about something a guy had done, right? And so that's what you're speaking to now, right? Just you're in a position now without the inhibitions or the ability or whatever, the cognitive thinking.

Shannon (11:23.341)
I know. Yeah.

Shannon (11:32.697)
Yeah, I know it's crazy. Yeah.

Shannon (11:42.637)
Exactly, yeah. And you know, I remember one time when we were in Sparwood, I was with my friends and she wanted to find her.

Chuck (11:43.584)
Yeah, so sorry, continue though.

Shannon (11:52.709)
brother's girlfriend or something because she wanted to beat her up. And so we were at this party and we figured out that this drug dealer knew where the girlfriend was and so drunk, pretty stupid, the thought was for me to get in the car with the drug dealer and drive to where the girlfriend was. And I remember like halfway through this drive I was like this probably wasn't a very good idea.

Chuck (12:21.019)
No, right?

Shannon (12:23.063)
Luckily, nothing happened and we got there and everything was fine. But, you know, waking up from that hangover and being like, holy shit, like, what could have happened is, you would think sobering, but it wasn't at that time. Kept on going. So yeah, lots of partying.

Chuck (12:28.183)
Huh.

Chuck (12:37.142)
Mm-hmm. Not kidding.

Chuck (12:40.878)
Nope.

Shannon (12:48.849)
raising my son by myself and co-parenting, trying to navigate that. And when I was, I think my little guy was three, I met who is my now husband. He was working on the rigs in Sparwin and we met at the Silver Fox Pub which is a little bar there. And we just like clipped. Basically from that time

Chuck (13:04.813)
Okay.

Chuck (13:12.75)
Okay.

Shannon (13:18.503)
He would stay at my house when his rig was in town and so he basically moved in with me. You know, he's an amazing man. We're still together and he loved me like, and still loves me like nobody ever had. You know, it was like just pure respect and comfort that I never felt, you know. He was a drinker too, so that's, we fit perfectly in together, you know. So

Chuck (13:38.582)
Wow.

Shannon (13:48.223)
We were married, bought a house, pregnant before we knew each other for a year. So that was a lot of stresses in that one year, right? And he was only 21 actually when we met. I was 25 and he was 21. So really young. So both definitely in party phase. And so yeah, so we drank for years together.

Chuck (13:56.194)
Wow.

Chuck (13:59.463)
No kidding.

Chuck (14:05.691)
Okay. Yeah.

Shannon (14:17.553)
be... sorry I just had a...

Chuck (14:21.678)
No, no, that's fine. You say you drank for years together. At this point, was it still more of binge drinking or was it daily, gotta have a drink today drinking?

Shannon (14:31.629)
Oh no, we were just both binge drinkers. Like we were never the token alcoholic, what people think is an alcoholic, you know? Definitely binge drinking. If we started drinking, we wouldn't stop until all the booze was gone. You know, and it didn't really matter what day it was, but definitely binge drinkers. So then we had my daughter.

Chuck (14:33.95)
Okay.

Chuck (14:38.614)
Yep.

Chuck (14:47.874)
Yeah, yeah. Right, yeah.

Shannon (14:59.237)
In 2006 we had her. We lived in Okotoks then. And he, my husband, had wanted to leave the rigs. And so he got a job back in Sparwood and we moved to Sparwood. And that's where we raised my daughter and son for about 10 years. We stayed in Sparwood. And that's actually where I sobered up. But um...

Chuck (15:09.73)
Yep.

Shannon (15:24.781)
We joined everything that you could join that would be, you could do drinking with, right? So we played slow pitch. We played slow pitch, we played golf. I joined a pool, like a eight ball league, you know, pool. So a bar, and you know, that's just what we spent our time doing. And it worked really well for us. We were both really high functioning. Our kids were always looked after.

Chuck (15:32.798)
such as, okay, yeah. Yeah.

Chuck (15:39.699)
Okay, yeah, of course. Yeah.

Chuck (15:51.616)
Okay.

Shannon (15:54.775)
clothed and fed. That's what I mean by looked after. And yeah, so they were in sports and everybody was happy on the outside. Then when I was...

Chuck (15:56.746)
Yeah, yeah, of course.

Shannon (16:14.269)
I think I should have thought about this. But there's a time, point in time where I started getting these weird chest pains and weird back pains. And at one point I went to the hospital.

and they did a bunch of blood tests and a bunch of tests on me and the doctor said, oh, your liver enzymes are elevated. How much do you drink? So I of course lied and said, not very often. And when I do, it's like two or three. And they found out that I had gallstones and I had fatty liver. Yeah, which is.

Chuck (16:39.351)
Once a week.

Chuck (16:52.598)
Okay, okay. I'm not sure what that is or what that means. Yeah.

Shannon (16:55.465)
It's, well neither was I. So it can be brought on by a couple of things from what I understand is drinking obviously and or like shitty diet which I had both you know I did not look after myself I was like obese like I was overweight you know. They, so I think it's like fat deposits in your liver that I can't like get rid of or something. I'm not too sure. I should

Chuck (17:04.546)
Yeah.

Chuck (17:08.534)
Yeah.

Chuck (17:12.747)
Yep.

Chuck (17:22.317)
Okay.

Shannon (17:25.539)
but I probably blocked that out of my mind. So they said lucky for you, lucky for you the liver is this amazing organ that regenerates itself and you know if you quit drinking and start eating right it's... yeah exactly yeah quit drinking yeah

Chuck (17:27.714)
Ha ha ha.

Chuck (17:36.41)
Okay. Once a week or whatever you want. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. If you quit those two drinks a week you have, then yeah, we'll be fine.

Shannon (17:43.829)
replace them with water. Yeah. And so I, yeah, I did that and got a clean bill of health and perfect. Okay. My liver's good. We're good to go. So then I decided, well, I'll just, because I had quit drinking for that. I think it was eight or nine months. I think it was eight or nine months.

Chuck (17:51.638)
Oh, okay.

Chuck (18:03.49)
for how long, yeah, I was, eight or nine months. So in that time, did you reflect back on, hey, this is really great that I'm not drinking right now, or was it just, I'm motivated because of the health thing, and that's why, had you acknowledged some of the shit that goes along with being an alcoholic yet? I should say. No?

Shannon (18:20.953)
Not so much. I, because I was doing it for health reasons, you know. With each of my pregnancies, I was fine with quitting drinking because it was for something, you know. This one was for something as well, so I didn't really have to do... I mean, deep down, I knew I was a different drinker and I knew that I was, um... probably had a problem, but not ready to admit it, you know.

Chuck (18:31.264)
Yeah, okay.

Chuck (18:45.698)
Yeah.

Shannon (18:46.989)
Yeah, so then when I got the clean bill of health, I...

Shannon (18:55.69)
I thought, okay, you know, I'll have a couple of drinks here or there. That doesn't usually work that way. So I just went from. Quitting drinking to basically exactly where it was, right? So exactly. All those things. And by this point, I was like blacking out regularly. And.

Chuck (18:59.679)
Okay.

Chuck (19:09.602)
picking up where you left off, making up for lost time, all those things, yeah, right, yeah, yeah.

Chuck (19:20.055)
Really? Okay.

Shannon (19:25.049)
You know, I kind of fast forward the story, but in those years there was a lot of fights between my husband and I. There was a lot of...

fights with family, fights with friends, you know, when you're drinking and in your addiction you're very egotistical and selfish. So it was all about me and you know, so in those ten years there was a lot of damage done so I don't want to not acknowledge that. Like it seems like I just jumped from getting married to this liver problem but in between

Chuck (20:03.955)
Yeah.

Shannon (20:05.812)
a lot of extra drinking, a lot of sleepless nights, a lot of even unsafe situations with, you know...

putting, not putting my kids first. Yeah.

Chuck (20:22.282)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yep.

Shannon (20:25.945)
you know, like when I say they're fed in clothes, that's probably because they were doing their own laundry and feeding themselves, you know. Yeah, to be completely honest. So with this, okay, okay.

Chuck (20:33.329)
Yeah, yeah, I getcha, I getcha.

Chuck (20:38.162)
Okay, we'll circle back to that, but continue on please. Yeah, okay.

Shannon (20:42.349)
So with this liver problem, clean bill of health, I thought I was gonna keep, just go right back to it. So I did. And we kept, I was in the winter, and in that spring we went to hockey provincials with my son, my oldest son, as a hockey player. And we were in Vancouver, I actually visited Zan then, or he came and saw me at the hotel.

I said to my husband, you know, I don't know if I've had my period lately. Like I think I'm just gonna pick up a test and see. So I did. We go to the hockey rink, I go in the bathroom and I come out and I was like, so you know that thing that we were joking about at lunch? Yeah, I'm pregnant. So our kids were like 8 and 12 at this time. Yeah.

Chuck (21:22.846)
Mm, yep.

Chuck (21:33.985)
Hehehe...

Chuck (21:37.664)
Hahaha

Chuck (21:41.186)
That's great. That's a great way to find out.

Shannon (21:42.961)
I uh, isn't it? Yeah. So I'm pretty sure he's probably just coming out of the shock at this point, like nowadays, but yeah. It was quite the... Um, so that opened up.

Chuck (21:54.894)
Yeah, it's funny because I mentioned for the first one there was like a big build-up for you telling the father and even for your second kid, you know, there'd be this, we've got to make sure it's the right time, it's right. Now it's like, yeah, so I just took a pee in the bathroom and here's the thing, this is the thing now. And so yeah, let's just, you know, I know, okay, the game's back on, shh, go back, you know, right? Yeah, right, so, yeah, okay. Yeah.

Shannon (22:01.721)
Yeah.

Yeah. At the hockey rink. Yeah.

Shannon (22:13.261)
Yeah, yeah, I could just finish taping his stick, which was actually what he was doing when I came out to the lobby Uh, so yeah, so we were What do we do? Um, you know and just for personal Experience and stuff like that like getting rid of the baby was never an option. So let's Yes, yeah, so he's yeah, yeah mid-30s kids are Eight and twelve

Chuck (22:31.954)
So at this point you're mid 30s, I guess, if I'm doing my math right, something like that. Yeah, okay, okay. Yeah.

Shannon (22:43.949)
And the next step was to find out how far along am I? And so it ended up that I was, I think 12 weeks or something. Yeah, so like quite far along. And keep in mind that's when I went back to drinking, so I have a lot of guilt about that. So far, we haven't really seen anything that indicates that it...

Chuck (22:53.312)
Oh wow.

Chuck (23:02.987)
I bet you do, yeah.

Shannon (23:12.413)
affected him in the long term. You know, he did have some developmental delays, but they couldn't say whether that was why or not. So yeah, so then have a baby. And

Chuck (23:12.594)
Okay.

Shannon (23:29.113)
right around this time. So my oldest I think was 12, so maybe that's grade 7 or 8 and then my daughter was 3-4, grade 3-4. So everybody's excited, having a baby. He was actually born on Halloween so that was kind of fun and I always tell him he was born a little monster.

Chuck (23:41.823)
Okay.

Chuck (23:52.366)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Shannon (23:53.593)
And so, yeah, I know, right? That's so funny, Mom. And... There's a joke there somewhere. Yes, we managed to navigate that and. All of that sort of stuff, and then I think.

Chuck (23:59.342)
Dad jokes from mom. Yeah, okay. There's a podcast title for you right there, right? Yeah, right.

Shannon (24:21.209)
He wasn't quite here, so my last day of drinking was July 21st, 2015? Yeah, 2015, because my youngest was born Halloween 2014, and it was that summer. So I obviously went back to drinking after I had him.

Chuck (24:29.966)
Okay.

Chuck (24:35.255)
Okay.

Shannon (24:40.933)
the last day of drinking so like I said we played ball. I had been taking it relatively easy on the drinking just from having a new baby knowing that it probably is affecting my health you know. But the last day I was at a ball tournament.

And ball is this funny thing. It's like, it's like parenting in 1980. Like everybody's smoking, you start drinking at 8 a.m. Like the kids are just in this little mob and they only come back when they're hungry. So it's acceptable to start drinking at your first game, right? 8 a.m. so 8 a.m. start drinking beer. And I kind of pace myself all day just drinking beer.

Chuck (25:13.901)
Yeah.

Chuck (25:17.918)
Yeah, yeah, right.

Chuck (25:24.018)
Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Shannon (25:34.105)
But, paste. Just drinking.

Chuck (25:37.539)
I often talk about, for me it was drugs like Coke and crack was my thing, but I was just sniffing lines then and before, you know, and it's just relative things to say, right, to somebody who's never experienced these things or these problems, right, you know, but there's a big difference between beer and whiskey and there's a big difference between you know, Coke and crack, but if you're a muggle as I like to call them, you know, you don't understand these things, right, so yeah, just drinking beer, yeah, right.

Shannon (25:42.631)
Yeah.

Shannon (25:55.376)
Yeah.

Shannon (25:59.245)
Right, yeah, I guess. Yeah, yeah, I guess that's true. I mean, I come from a long line of alcoholics, so I don't know. That was never, I never got the difference, you know what I mean? So my...

Chuck (26:13.495)
Yeah, yeah.

Shannon (26:17.069)
So we get play ball all day just drinking beer and we show up to this gathering. All the teams gather up in this field type area. We have a fire. It's kind of like a party. They give out awards and stuff. And when I got there, there was this person who had made this delicious punch type drink with vodka or something in it. I was so thirsty that and it tasted so good that I just started drinking a lot of it. And I mean, the amount that I could drink.

it was like it had to have been a lot. And after that I don't remember anything. I remember waking up the next day and waking up to this heaviness in my room of what did I do? Like I just knew as soon as I opened my eyes that I was...yeah.

Chuck (27:12.935)
Uh oh.

Shannon (27:16.261)
So I look around, yeah, so I look around and nobody's in there, so I go downstairs and I see my husband and he's not even looking at me. So I know it was something bad. And I said, can you tell me what happened? What did I do?

Chuck (27:16.386)
So do tell.

Shannon (27:33.313)
So I just have to preface this because you've probably never seen my son, but he's a giant. So he's six foot five at the time. He was probably like 300 pounds. He's a big dude. Yeah. So he said you tried to fight me last night. Like literally tried to physically fight me. And so in itself is kind of kind of funny because I'm so small. I'm only like five foot two maybe and he's six foot five. Yeah. So.

Chuck (27:41.203)
Okay.

Chuck (27:56.622)
Oh dear.

Shannon (28:00.313)
you know, now we can kind of laugh about it. But, you know, at that time, what wasn't funny is both of my kids had friends sleeping over. I had a baby sleeping that probably didn't get looked after because I just tried to fight my husband and then passed out. I'm sure my husband stepped up or one of the kids, but...

That feeling of disappointment in myself and the look of disappointment and then looking at my kids and them kind of looking at me with this weird look was...

Chuck (28:32.171)
Yeah.

Heartbreaking.

Shannon (28:35.565)
I just never wanted to feel that again.

Chuck (28:41.599)
Yeah.

Shannon (28:45.522)
So that was the last time. And I just never wanted to have to ask them to forgive me for stuff that they shouldn't have to forgive me for.

Shannon (29:01.625)
So that's, sorry.

Chuck (29:04.448)
That's not an episode if I don't cry a little bit, so it's fine.

Shannon (29:07.457)
I know right. So um, I uh, I just decided right then I was going to quit drinking right?

Shannon (29:19.385)
So I did what we call white knuckling it in the program, like just grin and bear it and just pure determination to stop drinking, right? So I did that for about a month. And then I was no stranger to the rooms of Alcohol It's Anonymous because my mom went, was part of the program when I was growing up.

Chuck (29:42.958)
Okay.

Shannon (29:44.201)
Yeah, so I knew about them and I was always a little bit curious. So after this month I thought, you know what, I'm going to go and check it out and see if maybe there's something there.

will help me, right? And you know, I think everybody should check it out, quite honestly, because it gives you a whole new way to live, you know. It's a nice program for life, you know, even if you take the fundamentals of it and go with that. It's really good. So the first meeting I went to was a big book study, which is they read from the big book, and then you discuss

Chuck (30:10.318)
really is.

Shannon (30:26.303)
So the big book is a book. Yeah.

Chuck (30:27.266)
fine. Okay. I was literally about to say, yeah, okay. For the listener's sake. Okay. Yeah.

Shannon (30:30.817)
What is the big book? Yeah, so the big book we kind of call it the Bible of Alcoholics Anonymous. So it's this book that was written by the founder of Alcoholics Anonymous and it is what the program was developed around. So it has all the fundamentals of the steps and it also has some stories in the back. So it's kind of fitting that it's a big book study. You go read from it, talk about how

Shannon (31:02.451)
My very first meeting I go in, I was late of course, and they read this passage and actually I'll read it for you because it was quite profound. So this is the very first reading I got when I went to the Big Book study and it's on my own to address my drinking. Set the tone.

Chuck (31:11.862)
Yeah, please do.

Chuck (31:19.47)
So this is the first meeting you've ever walked into on your own as a, okay, okay. Just trying to set the ambiance for this. Yes, yes, right, yeah. I just like saying ambiance, so, okay, yep, yep.

Shannon (31:28.349)
Yeah, so it's reading, yeah exactly, so it's reading from chapter 11 which is titled A Vision for You.

So, for most normal folks, drinking means conviviality, companionship and colourful imagination. It means release from care, boredom and worry. It is joyous intimacy with friends and a feeling that life is good. But not so with us in those last days of heavy drinking. The old pleasures were gone. They were about memories. Never could we recapture the great moments of the past. There was an insistent yearning to enjoy life as we once did, and a heartbreaking obsession that some new miracles

of control would enable us to do it. There was always one more attempt and one more failure. The less people tolerated us, the more we withdrew from society, from life itself. As we became subjects of King Alcohol, shivering denizens of his mad realm, the chilling vapor that his loneliness settled down. It thickened, ever becoming blacker. Some of us sought out soared places, hoping to find understanding, companionship and approval. Momentarily we did.

Shannon (32:35.855)
to face the hideous fore horsemen. Terror, bewilderment, frustration, despair. Unhappy drinkers who read this page will understand." And like every single word of that spoke to me on almost like a cellular level, you know. It's like somebody had taken my thoughts and put them into words. So yeah.

Chuck (32:45.326)
Right? Right.

Chuck (32:59.47)
kidding, no kidding. So is that the meeting where you get up and say the words or you know I'm an alcoholic? Do you do that in that first meeting?

Shannon (33:11.717)
I did, yes. Yeah. Well, so because I was actually I that's kind of a lie because I was late Hold on I gotta let the dogs out

Chuck (33:12.862)
Yes, yeah.

Chuck (33:21.314)
Go ahead. Yeah, go ahead.

Shannon (33:29.329)
So the format, let me just sit down first. The format of those meetings is, you don't.

just walk in and say, I'm this person. At the beginning of the meeting, the chairperson will usually ask if somebody wants to introduce themselves. Because I was late, I didn't have to do that part of it. Then they come to the sharing portion where they kind of go around the room and you can say, hi, my name's so-and-so and I'm an alcoholic.

Chuck (33:46.494)
August yeah

Chuck (33:51.598)
I'm going to go ahead and turn it off.

Shannon (34:02.541)
And that meeting I didn't because I was just like kind of shell shocked, you know? Exactly. The next one I did, you know, but to say those words is also part of the recovery because the four that it's like the nail in the coffin almost for me.

Chuck (34:09.73)
taking it in and yeah.

Shannon (34:25.957)
You know, once I kind of say that, then I have to. Because I'm like an all or nothing person. So once I say that and believe it, that's it, right? You know? Yeah.

Chuck (34:36.59)
Absolutely, I totally understand that. So, how's that feel the first time you say that? How was that for you? Was it relieving, was it scary? Was it, if you can remember those day, that day.

Shannon (34:49.345)
Yeah, to be honest, it was quite relieving because, like, my logical mind already knew it. It was my heart that was hoping, like in that reading, hoping that it wasn't so and that I could find that happy medium of control over drinking, you know.

Chuck (35:08.926)
Yeah, yeah, okay. So continue, I imagine this is where the story gets better. It's more hopeful from here, right? Better's not the right word, but yeah.

Shannon (35:16.261)
better. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So yeah, for sure. So that was my first entrance into the program. And I remember saying to one of the people there, how is the fastest way I can do this? Like I want to do it like next week, I want to be done the steps and be good, you know.

Chuck (35:40.084)
I laugh to the listeners. I only laugh because I think everybody feels that way. Like, I can just rock this, you know. There's the checks. I'll just check those boxes off and, you know, I'll be good. And, you know, maybe I can go back to having a drink now and again, too, right? You know, why not? So, right. Yeah.

Shannon (35:46.574)
Yeah.

Shannon (35:50.261)
Exactly. I'm here now. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So I said, how can I do this? And they're all looking at me like, you know, whoa, what is happening here? You know, there's this thing with.

Chuck (36:05.084)
Because none of them had that mindset when they walked in too though, right? There's the thing, they all did. Everybody does, right? That's just part of the course.

Shannon (36:10.461)
Yeah, yeah, it's But you know I even find with me newcomers we call them They're kind of refreshing because you see that and I think it takes you right back to that time of That feeling and you know all that So yes

Chuck (36:29.406)
Were you a I'm gonna run this shit kind of person? Or were you a I got this kind of person? Because there's like me being who I am and whatever the roles I've taken on in life, when I'm there I'm like, you're running this, I'm gonna be running this thing a month from now, I don't know who you are, right? Because it's just who I am my whole life. And some people just kind of naturally just kind of fall into place and find the role. And where were your thoughts in the beginning about it?

Shannon (36:45.383)
Yeah.

Shannon (36:53.785)
Well, I was sort of the same mindset as you. Like I was gonna run this place, like I'm going to like all in, like I said, I was all, yeah. Well, that's just it. I actually probably know more than them, usually is the thought, right? And... Ha ha ha.

Chuck (37:03.062)
I might even change a step. Right?

Shannon (37:14.385)
So that's the kind of thing. Like I was listening to figure out either what I didn't agree with or what I was going to change. Like you say, that sort of thing. You know, and only in sitting there for long enough, you learn that you have to do the opposite. You have to look for similarities. You have to look for something you connect with. You have to sometimes you have to actually just shut the fuck up and listen, you know.

Chuck (37:37.92)
Absolutely.

Shannon (37:44.499)
Which is hard. Yeah. Yeah, so that was in July of 2015.

Chuck (37:45.05)
Well said. It's well said. And it is hard. It is, right?

Shannon (37:55.205)
So I had my year of first, you know, first Christmas, first Halloween, first all these things that I used to party for, first birthday sober, kids birthdays, first New Year's. So my very first New Year's I was really excited because I could drive my kids wherever they wanted to go. Previously it was a Friday night, sure you can go there as long as you find a ride there and back. You know.

Chuck (38:08.558)
Okay.

Chuck (38:17.58)
Yeah.

Shannon (38:24.559)
to her friend's house. Yeah sure can you hear him?

Chuck (38:27.214)
Do you want to let your dog in? Yeah.

Shannon (38:38.708)
So I had drove my daughter up to her friend's house.

And then she messaged me when she was ready to come home. And on my way up there was this taxi that was broken down on the side of the road. So I pull up and it was a girl and I was like, are you okay? She's like, I think I ran out of gas. So I said, well, hop in. I got to go get my daughter. And and as I'm driving, I'm like, what? This is so ironic. Like I'm driving around a taxi driver on New Year's Eve sober. You know, usually I'm like, is it OK if I smoke in here?

Chuck (39:15.423)
I had one regular cab driver who would let us use his clipboard to do lines off of. I shit you not. Anyway. Taxi Joe, I hope you're doing well in life right now. I don't think you're a taxi driver anymore so I can say that. Go ahead.

Shannon (39:22.369)
Yeah, like, send Gary. Yeah. It's funny how we find them, hey? Yeah. Uh, so the irony of that was not lost on me my very first, um, New Year's Eve. Uh-huh.

Chuck (39:41.395)
Of course.

Shannon (39:45.161)
So through this I was still going to regular meetings and all that kind of stuff. Then we got to July and that's when my husband decided to quit drinking. So he's seven years.

Chuck (39:58.85)
How was that between your date and his date? How was that between the two of you? Like when you were sober, like when you were not drinking and you was still drinking? How was that dynamic?

Shannon (40:07.539)
Meaning...

Shannon (40:11.469)
Yeah, so this funny dynamic, like you said, like alcoholism addiction is like a family disease, you know, like it affects everybody. And with that, I think the thought was that like I was the only one with a problem.

So when I quit, we were just waiting for it to get better because the problem was going to get resolved. You know, and then it took a year and then thought, oh, okay, maybe it's both a problem. You know, and I think probably that's why some marriages dissolve is because the other person doesn't decide to either step up or stay in it, you know. Yeah.

Chuck (40:38.803)
Yeah.

Chuck (40:48.888)
Yeah.

Chuck (40:59.402)
Yeah, yeah, I see what you're saying for sure. That must have felt, and we'll get into your story, and continue on, but I'm just thinking at that moment when he says, okay, I'm gonna quit drinking, for you that just must have been next level awesome. Yeah.

Shannon (41:13.36)
Oh.

Oh yeah, I was so happy and so proud of him. You know, I just thought this is gonna be beautiful and amazing, you know, cause I knew he's always loved me and almost to a fault, cause when I was in drinking, he would justify anything I ever did, you know? Oh, you weren't that bad. They're just assholes. You know, he just loved me almost to a fault at that point. I mean, probably me for him as well, you know?

Chuck (41:19.886)
No kidding.

Chuck (41:30.7)
Yeah.

Chuck (41:36.414)
minimizing it. Yeah.

Chuck (41:42.082)
Do you feel that first year for you is harder because he's not, or because he is drinking, or had you kind of separated yourself at that point?

Shannon (41:50.849)
I had kind of separated myself, I was doing it just for me, so it wasn't... And I have never been that type of personality of, you know, if I can't, you can't, or... I take responsibility for what's mine. Yeah.

Chuck (41:54.511)
Okay, okay.

Chuck (42:08.562)
I get you, I get you, yeah, absolutely. I'm around people quite often now that they'll smoke pot or drink and it doesn't even, you know, obviously I'm not around coke and all of that because I'm around a different type of person, but you know, it doesn't even begin to faze me and just go ahead and do your thing, right?

Shannon (42:14.261)
Oh, exactly.

Shannon (42:21.361)
Yeah, I go out for wings with my friends to pubs and... I have rules. If they start repeating themselves more than two or three times, then I leave. You know?

Chuck (42:24.906)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Chuck (42:35.539)
Is that because you're worried about your own relapsing or is that because it just gets annoying being around drunk people? Yeah, right?

Shannon (42:40.225)
Oh, it's annoying. It's annoying, yeah. No, I'm not worried about having a drink. I'm just worried about me not being able to say with my face that you're a stupid idiot. Ha ha

Chuck (42:49.774)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

Chuck (42:54.774)
I hear you, yeah, okay. Okay.

Shannon (42:57.316)
But yeah, no, I don't hold anybody accountable for me feeling uncomfortable in that situation, right?

Chuck (43:07.23)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay. So continue on, your husband's quit drinking.

Shannon (43:11.717)
So my husband's quit drinking and we...

Shannon (43:18.525)
You know, quitting drinking isn't easy. It's not like you quit drinking and then everything's roses and you know, this parade comes down of, you know, yay, whoop-de-doo. You quit drinking and there's a lot of shit you go through. There's a lot of things like you're feeling, feelings that you haven't felt in years. And you're probably drinking because you don't have any coping mechanisms on how to navigate those feelings, right?

Chuck (43:26.624)
If only. Yeah.

Chuck (43:45.866)
Absolutely, absolutely. Which only get made worse because of the things that you do while you're in your addiction. And then, you know, now, now it's a snake eating its tail, you're, you know, coping to, or drinking to cope and coping to drink. And right. It's like, it's just, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Right.

Shannon (43:48.644)
So...

Shannon (43:53.774)
Exactly.

Shannon (43:59.701)
Exactly, exactly and that's just how it is you know. We both had quite high bottoms because we were high functioning and you know we had our house, we had our cars, we had our children, we had all those things that people think a bottom should be that you lose them but that's not just so bottom's a bottom and it doesn't matter high or low or in the middle.

Chuck (44:17.962)
Yeah, every rock bottom is different. Yeah, right?

Shannon (44:26.913)
you know if it's not working for you it's not working for you so

Chuck (44:30.466)
Absolutely.

So he came into 12stepping as well with you then?

Shannon (44:37.173)
No, he didn't. He doesn't have a program. He never, no, he never came in. It's just not for him, which is fine. And he's actually, uh, like drinks fake beer and does all that stuff that the program kind of looks down on. But I, I'm a huge believer in whatever works for you to get you to recovery is fine.

Chuck (44:39.23)
No? Okay.

Chuck (44:49.142)
Yep.

Chuck (45:01.266)
Yeah, I often say that the right path is the path that works for you, that's it. There isn't, and that's where that statement to me has to end, right? There's nobody else that's gonna decide what my recovery looks like, and you know, I just, I feel very strongly about that, that whatever, man, whatever, if your life is better than it was yesterday, you're on the right path, right? It's, you know, right? It's, you know, yeah, right, yeah, yeah.

Shannon (45:08.314)
Exactly.

Shannon (45:18.318)
Yeah, me too.

Shannon (45:22.829)
Exactly, exactly, you know. We still play ball, we still do all the things that we did when we were drinking, just go to bed at 9 o'clock and wake up feeling great. Yeah.

Chuck (45:33.39)
sober. Right?

Shannon (45:36.889)
And there's times where we'll be at a ball tournament and we'll get in the truck and be like, isn't this amazing? Like we just finished playing ball, we get in the truck, drive home, we're gonna cook dinner for the kids. These are all things that just never happened. You know, when we were drinkers they would be like, okay well let's have the party, who's getting the beer, fuck we gotta get the kids home, they can walk. Yeah.

Chuck (45:52.767)
Yeah, right.

Chuck (45:58.445)
Yeah.

Yeah, right, right. Fuck, we've got to get that thing that statement though, right? Right? It's, you know, what? Insane, you know, just insane. Yeah, yeah, right. So, okay, okay. So...

Shannon (46:06.809)
Exactly!

It is insanity. And then I'm just trying to think of.

Shannon (46:20.421)
else let me see I wrote down some notes here

Chuck (46:22.586)
Um, okay, I'll ask you a question to keep you going here. Um, being that, so does your, okay, first, does your, does your husband identify as an alcoholic?

Shannon (46:26.295)
Okay.

Shannon (46:35.766)
Uh, yes. If you asked him, he would say that he's an alcoholic, yeah.

Chuck (46:36.758)
Yes, okay, so, okay, okay. So being two alcoholic parents, the concerns about your kids, how is that for you in about, because you're 17, right? And here we are, I mean realistically 14 year, you're 21, sorry, so yeah, right. Those are.

Shannon (46:46.801)
Mm-hmm. Oh.

Shannon (46:53.509)
17 and 21, yeah.

Shannon (47:01.241)
Yeah, they're... Mmm... It's extremely difficult because...

Chuck (47:01.518)
How do you navigate that?

Shannon (47:09.733)
You want them so hard, I pray every day that they will have an easier path than me and that their choices will lead them to much more happiness sooner than I did. But the truth is, they have to walk that path and they have to carve that road, you know. So I always tell them, you know, part of the program is making amends to people.

Chuck (47:28.43)
Of course.

Shannon (47:38.305)
So at the beginning, sorry, you know, I'd say to my kids, like, I'm really sorry if my drinking affected you at all. And they'd say, no, mom, it's, you know, it was fine. There's nothing because that was their reality. You know, they hadn't grown up enough to see that it was different for other people yet. You know, they didn't have the capacity to think, oh, I have an anger problem, or I have this problem, to know that stems from,

Chuck (47:57.61)
Yeah.

Shannon (48:09.139)
my drinking or that sort of thing you know. So it's been a lot of years. I'm eight years sober. It's been those eight years you know very early in my recovery I felt that if I lived in that guilt and of what I had done to people or specifically to my kids I had tremendous guilt about not being the mother that I thought that they deserved you know and I kind of lived

Chuck (48:12.458)
Yeah, yeah.

Chuck (48:28.344)
Mm-hmm.

Chuck (48:36.546)
Good.

Shannon (48:38.199)
in that for probably about a year or two and finally somebody said to me that you know it doesn't matter how much you punish yourself it's not going to change that. So how you can change that is moving out of that guilt and meeting them where they're at now and working through that you know and I really have saw that my mind is cleared my heart is open and I try to meet them where they're at. Am I level-headed and calm at all times?

Chuck (48:48.127)
Nope.

Chuck (49:09.346)
Hehehehehe

Shannon (49:09.44)
crazy. I still yell, I still... but I'm so much quicker to go back and say even to my kids like I'm so sorry that I said that to you and I shouldn't have reacted that way where that wouldn't even have been a thought previously.

Chuck (49:27.15)
I'm kidding, I'm kidding, right? There's something I talk about. I came across it in a different way. It's funny, I just reposted, or posted the video again recently on the Facebook. Turning stories into thank yous. I don't know if you saw or read any of this. For me, one of the most powerful things that I've ever done, when I figured that out, it was like, everything got so much better so fast, right?

Shannon (49:42.645)
Oh, yeah.

Shannon (49:50.16)
Mm-hmm.

Chuck (49:56.47)
your family, your kids, even at a young age, they know you're sorry, they've heard it, right? They've heard it, we've all heard the stories. Yeah, right, so you know, to me, once you said it, especially, you know, to add all family members and people you love, once you said it once and meant it, they don't need to hear it again, right? Thank you. Every single time you want to say sorry, say thank you instead. And the difference in life is amazing.

Shannon (50:02.077)
They've lived it. Yeah.

Chuck (50:24.778)
Not sorry, I relapse, sorry, you know, thank you for giving me an opportunity, right? Thank you for, mom, thanks for still loving me, right? What a difference, right? Yeah, yeah, it's a huge, powerful change when a person can do that, you know, so, sorry. I hate jumping in with my own little things on people's stories, but sometimes I feel like I need to. All right.

Shannon (50:29.149)
Great.

Shannon (50:34.208)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Shannon (50:42.049)
No, but I really love that. You know, I take anything to do with recovery. I take a lot from what other people have to say. You know, it kind of reminds me. I was gonna say it reminds me of.

Chuck (50:49.909)
Mm-hmm. Where it came from. Oh, go ahead. Nope, go ahead.

Shannon (50:55.381)
One thing that I changed my thinking with is before, when I was in active addiction and drinking, I would always say, why is this happening to me? Why is this happening to me? And when I switched that to say, what is this teaching me? I really, my mindset, yeah, right, exactly. My mindset flipped and it takes me out of myself, out of my ego, which I was really deeply in. When I was in alcoholism,

Chuck (51:12.741)
Same thing, right? Same exact same thing right there.

Shannon (51:25.815)
void of any spirituality, which to me is directly related to how far you're into your ego, right? Because when it's all about you, you can't think of other people. So the further I move away from my ego, the more serenity I have, I find.

Chuck (51:35.646)
Okay.

Chuck (51:42.348)
Yeah.

Chuck (51:47.454)
I like that. I do like that. Absolutely. We have, and I know, especially with recovery stories, we end up with new people listening because of the, just the nature of it. So I do have to take this opportunity to talk about one of our weekly features. We do the Wednesday, Kaleidoscope Wednesday. I don't know if you've had a chance to listen to an episode yet.

Shannon (52:08.429)
I haven't yet, no.

Chuck (52:11.106)
They are a must listen to. We have Ryan Bathgate, who is a gifted and wonderful therapist. He's charismatic and wise and passionate and all the things. Him and I were actually great school friends. And then we reconnected through the show. He lives out in Mission BC now. We reconnected through the show. I asked him to come on and he's been on every week since. And it's something we call Kaleidoscope Wednesday. The things he talks about and teaches us.

Shannon (52:12.759)
Okay.

Shannon (52:26.136)
Oh really?

Shannon (52:35.293)
Oh wow. Yeah. I'm going to go get some water.

Chuck (52:41.33)
are absolutely life-changing. And you know, you've talked about ego, you've talked about guilt, these are things that we've done entire episodes on. Right, and he just, it's absolutely awe-inspiring sometimes. Just, I don't have any of his shorts lined up here, otherwise I'd play one for you, but. He is something else, so it's something to check out. And what we started doing now is series. So we just finished a three-part series on Connection.

Shannon (52:41.414)
Mm-hmm.

Shannon (53:10.961)
Okay.

Chuck (53:11.538)
And then we've just started another one now on emotional lexicon. So like naming your feelings and understanding where they come from. So we're doing a three-part series on that. We've already, we've, yeah. Oh, what?

Shannon (53:18.085)
Right? That's very important, you know? Because the only feelings I was ever able to identify or allowed to have was like anger and happiness, really. And if I was angry, I should have been happy. I have, yeah.

Chuck (53:30.382)
Yeah, yeah. Right, yeah, yeah. Have you seen the feeling wheel? Do you know what the feeling wheel is? Yeah, yeah, so that's what the whole series is based on. Right, and for me, I made one when I was in detox, the last time I went, because we were just handing out sheets of paper for that, that one lesson that we did on, you know, because it's a two week program, trying to jam lots in. And I was looking at this paper, I was like, this is kind of cool, and I thought,

Shannon (53:40.954)
I should listen to that.

Chuck (54:00.13)
Whatever, I decided I was gonna make one. Turns out that drawing a whole circle and dividing it up into 64 and 32 and 16 and whatever parts was actually really tough to do. We got it done, it looks like shit now that I go back and look at it. It's like a horrible looking thing because I got the staff to send me a picture the other day. So that was, Ryan looked at it, we can't use this for the episode, man, like come on, right? So we had to break out a real one, but I was so proud of it at the time. But.

Shannon (54:10.767)
Yeah.

Shannon (54:21.616)
I'm gonna go.

Shannon (54:26.385)
I know, isn't that funny?

Chuck (54:28.266)
Right? The whole reason that we just started doing this series was I was just on another show, my friends over at Hard Knocks Talks interviewed me and he'd asked me if there was one thing, like if there was one thing that you know, you could have learned or pulled out or whatever. I said, you know what, if I go back to that feeling wheel and understood like how important it was at the time. I understood like the concept of it and it all made sense to me and I agreed with it. But it wasn't till now that I have the benefit of, you know, a year-ish clean.

Shannon (54:48.445)
Yeah.

Chuck (54:57.206)
that I go back and really understand how important that goddamn wheel was, right? And how identifying those emotions, right? So that's why we ended up doing a series on it here and starting another one. So yeah, this is part two, I'll be out this Wednesday of that.

Shannon (55:04.241)
Yeah.

Shannon (55:08.666)
Well, and...

You know, that's so indicative of how recovery works. It's not how when I first came in, it was like, I want this done by next week. That's just not how it works. It's ongoing. It's ever-changing. You know, I still learn stuff. I still see stuff that I never saw. You know, when I was in my first year, I used to walk from my house down to the rec center in Okotoks. And I'd walk by my friend's house every time my kids wanted to go swimming or my son played hockey.

Chuck (55:21.314)
It's never done, right?

Shannon (55:41.199)
I had done this for 10 years walking by his house and my first spring sober I walked by his house and there was this beautiful tree with all these blossoms and it smelt amazing and I don't ever remember seeing that tree previously you know so it just opens up your mind and your heart and takes you out of yourself and into the world you know and that's part of what the beauty is of recovery

Chuck (55:56.038)
No kidding, eh? Yep.

Chuck (56:06.059)
Wow. Yeah.

Shannon (56:10.479)
you're always learning, you're always connecting, you're always learning from people. You know, and I tell people that, you know, back to the whatever works for you, is if you think you have a problem, reach out. But most importantly is you immerse yourself into the community. Like, I thought the people that didn't drink were maybe 5% of the population. Like, I thought there was something wrong with them. You know, like, yeah, I couldn't understand it.

Chuck (56:36.056)
There's our lens again, right?

Shannon (56:40.259)
hang out with them, you're boring, why? Like it's the only thing that people quit that you're like why? I tell people I quit smoking all the time, oh that's amazing. I say I quit drinking, oh what? How come? Not even one? Not even one you know and so you know if you start listening to podcasts there's tons of podcasts that to do with the alcohol-free experience, sober curious, AA,

Chuck (56:43.455)
right?

Chuck (56:46.666)
Yeah. Ha ha ha.

Chuck (56:57.268)
No kidding.

Chuck (57:05.002)
Yeah. Yep.

Shannon (57:10.179)
things there's tons of it and you know social media. Unfollow all those people and just start following groups and inspiring people.

Chuck (57:21.578)
watch and the algorithm, so all of a sudden you realize that there's more people than not that are enjoying life without the substance, right? You know, so yeah.

Shannon (57:29.333)
Exactly, and even for fact, now like I go out for wings with my friends and I see how other people drink and it's nowhere close to what I was. And I thought everybody was like me, you know?

Chuck (57:40.79)
Right? Yeah. Right. Yeah. I hear you.

Shannon (57:47.997)
So now it's you go out and you realize like okay these people have two or three beers with their wings and then they go home and everything's fine you know that just never happened for me yeah

Chuck (57:55.294)
Yeah, yeah, if only, yep. No, no, no. All right, unless there's anything else you'd really like to talk about, you know.

Shannon (58:03.73)
Um...

Shannon (58:08.333)
No, I think to maybe like touch on the kids thing again.

Chuck (58:12.107)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Shannon (58:14.725)
You know, I really struggled with like allowing them to drink or, you know, that's always the hard thing. You know, do you let them drink around you? Do you buy them booze? Do you?

Chuck (58:31.062)
Yeah. Right.

Shannon (58:31.373)
you know, all these things of like, what are the boundaries like? Because getting here, I didn't get here by having strong boundaries and good decisions for sure. You know, and so to try that again and like you touched on previously, like my kids lived this alcoholism with me, you know, so there's like a path, there's...

you know, a family culture that goes along with that, right? And that usually is we don't talk about stuff. You know, like we pretend stuff never happened. And so when in their early formative years that happens, they just think that it's exactly. So it's taken us a lot of years to navigate that and to re-

Chuck (59:15.262)
normal and yeah.

Chuck (59:24.95)
change the culture.

Shannon (59:26.145)
Exactly. What's acceptable. You know, I do let them be teenagers. I let them make their own mistakes, you know, and Exactly, exactly. I just know and I've told them now that if you ever need help you can come to me. I'm here. I won't judge you.

Chuck (59:35.338)
Of course, there's no point not letting them because they're going to anyway, so right. You know, right.

Shannon (59:52.237)
And I'll be your soft space if you need it, you know.

Chuck (59:56.022)
Yeah, yeah, right. So

Chuck (01:00:01.098)
All right, I guess that brings us to my favorite part of the show, and that is the Daily Gratitudes.

Chuck (01:00:25.71)
There you go. When I have a guest on the show, we'd like to get a couple, at least a couple of gratitudes out of you. What you got for us today?

Shannon (01:00:35.869)
Gratitude, you know, I am grateful for, oh, like, you know, little things, like my morning coffee. Super grateful for that. Uh. Yeah.

Chuck (01:00:45.778)
This is how I know somebody knows that practices gratitude because they throw in the little things. Everybody searches for these grandiose things to be thankful for and it's like a competition, sometimes with themselves, right? When it's like, I know somebody practices gratitude when they say a cup of coffee. Right? That's how I know, yeah. Yeah. Absolutely right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Shannon (01:00:55.993)
Right.

Shannon (01:00:59.585)
Yeah, well yeah, like have you ever not had a pod that you can, you know, make a coffee? That's a bad morning.

Shannon (01:01:10.521)
But McDonald's always has a pot on, so you can always go there. And I mean, so for something that's grandiose and sort of big, you know, I'm grateful for my family, that they have forgiven me. They love me for me. I love them for them.

Chuck (01:01:31.33)
Yeah. For myself, you know, I'm always thankful to for guests are coming on and sharing their stories. Always. They're all the same, but they're all so different. And I just, I will never ever get tired of that. You know, and it's, you know, we've done a hundred and this will be 165 episodes. And it's, it just keeps, keeps getting better that way. So for that, I'm always thankful. And my final gratitude would go out to the listeners, you guys, whatever you are doing, listeners and watchers, I guess I know.

I think we decided to call you all supporters now, because I don't know what to call you. Now that we do video, but whatever you're doing, please keep doing it. I'm not going to list off all the socials, because we're on all of them, literally all of them now. I don't think there's a single one that we've missed. If you see the logo, like, comment, share, do the thing, please. Every time you do one of these things, you're getting me a little bit closer to living my best life. My best life is to make a humble living, spreading the message. The message is this. If you're in active addiction right now, today could be the day. Today could be the day that you start that lifelong journey.

Reach out to a friend, reach out to a family member, call into detox, go to a meeting, do whatever the hell it is you need to do to get that journey started, because it is so much better than the alternative. And if you are the loved one of somebody who's suffering an addiction right now, just taking the time to listen to our episode, you just take one more minute out of your day and text that person, let them know they are loved. Use the words.

Shannon (01:02:51.561)
or loved.

Chuck (01:02:52.994)
that little glimmer of hope just might be the thing that brings them back. 165, I still get emotional almost every single time.

Shannon (01:02:58.909)
Okay.