204 - DANNY SHANNON

Chuck LaFLange (00:02.038)
Hello everybody, watchers, listeners, supporters of all kinds. Welcome to another episode of the Ashes to Awesome podcast. I'm your host Chuck LaFlange with me in Virtual Studio on this side of the world for a change. It's Danny Shannon. How are you doing today, Danny?

Danny (00:13.204)
Good thing Chuck, Sydney, Australia, hello!

Chuck LaFLange (00:16.442)
Hey, hey, yeah, from Thailand here nowadays, everybody I talk to is on the other side of the world, right? So it's kind of like, it's like we're both looking at daylight. That hasn't happened to me in a long time on the show. Right. So that's kind of great. Yeah, man. Yeah. So we've linked up through social media. This tends to be the way somebody Casey at F around and recover pointed me your way the first time.

Danny (00:20.781)
Yeah, me too, right? Me too.

Danny (00:28.586)
Yeah. Crazy.

Chuck LaFLange (00:41.358)
I'd seen a couple of your things in passing because whenever things show up on your feed, but then I started paying attention to you and then all of the other content creators in that part of the world started talking to me about you and so we better get you on the show. So I'm glad to have you. Yeah, yeah, right.

Danny (00:51.784)
Yeah, well, how lucky. Isn't that crazy? You know what? I am connected with all those big influencers, or sorry, creators in America, you know? I'm blessed to be in that position. I love it. Like, I feel so honored to be a part of that stuff and I try and give back and collaborate as often as possible. And ultimately, you know, just...

Chuck LaFLange (01:02.51)
creators. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (01:06.446)
Yeah.

Danny (01:18.616)
It means my message of recovery gets shared further and further around the world. So happy day.

Chuck LaFLange (01:23.086)
Right, right. Yeah. Yeah, I'm I've been at it for about a year I'm pretty new to that kind of those that group of content creators and I gotta tell you man What a great group of people. Hey, just an amazing group of people. They're phenomenal. So yeah, right

Danny (01:30.985)
Yeah.

Oh, yeah, they are. They really are. And I've seen, you know, the interview you had with Sonja Johnson that I shared yesterday, like me and Sonja, well, actually first, me and Hunter, Michael Shepherd, do you know him? Yeah, he's an absolute legend. Me and him connected way back in the day when my journey just started. And he taught me a lot. And because of him, back then I got verified on Facebook.

Chuck LaFLange (01:42.454)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (01:48.35)
I know of him. I don't know him personally. Yeah.

Danny (02:03.024)
And that was before you could sort of get verified. So, and then he introduced me, then he came to Australia. So me and him are good mates now. And then it's just one thing after another. Anyway, like I'm just a bloke in recovery. I used to just be a heroin addict. I just don't use drugs anymore. The difference is I tell everyone about it, you know?

Chuck LaFLange (02:20.814)
Hahaha

Hahaha

Danny (02:28.577)
I try and entertain the people, I get into the trends, I get into the deep emotional stuff. I definitely wear my heart on my sleeve, you know, so it's like nothing is off limits to me. There's nothing you can't ask me today as well, by the way, you know, like, let's just go, let's just chop it up. Yeah, that's the way to be.

Chuck LaFLange (02:38.856)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (02:45.982)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm the same way, man, right? Like it's all out there now, right? So yeah, the shame. Nothing, I got nothing to be ashamed of anymore. Do I got a list of shit that, you know, from back in the day, so you can't, you can't. Thick skin now. Hey, so what I like to do, brother, is always with a guest is right off the bat, was the first time you remember getting fucked up? If I can be so, okay, okay.

Danny (02:57.928)
Yeah, absolutely.

Danny (03:08.5)
Yeah, I was 14 years old. I was, my first time getting fucked up, it was the first time I picked up. So, you know, straight to the, straight to the carnage. I got drunk, stoned, and I got on these nitric oxide down, they call them cream bulbs or nangs, you know what they are, right? The nitric oxide. Oh yeah, I got on the cream bulbs. It's just this nitric oxide gas. And anyway, that,

Chuck LaFLange (03:28.218)
All right. Nope. I don't never, never had that. So not.

Danny (03:37.612)
A couple of hours later, I woke up from being unconscious. I was on this outdoor roller skating rink. There was bodies laying around everywhere, broken glass. This was a closed down roller skating rink. And I remember just waking up thinking that was mad. Like, let's go again. And I think that was my experience.

Chuck LaFLange (03:56.2)
Fuck. So do you remember how it made you feel though? Like do you remember how it made you feel? Was there like a relief or a, yeah, yeah. Were you aware enough at the time to know what it was doing for you or was it just kind of cool?

Danny (04:00.692)
Well, yeah, it's cool. Yeah, it's cool.

made me feel sick. I got, I was, I was, I vomited. I was like numb. I was, um, off with the fairies. Cause those gas things, they just like, they bro, they kill like a million brain cells every hit. And I don't have that many chakras. I don't have that many brain cells. So it was, um, a real extreme change of my feelings, mate. You know, I went from being this sweet innocent kid.

Chuck LaFLange (04:10.807)
Ha!

Chuck LaFLange (04:21.919)
Ah, jeez. Ha ha

Danny (04:36.608)
That might be a bit much. I went from this sweet, innocent kid to putting Stone's ginger wine, which is this putrid substance of like ginger wine. So I felt that gave me that warm glow. The pot made me just feel numb and funny. And then the cream bowls just made me hit the deck. Like they make you unconscious pretty quick, those things, if you suck one right in.

Chuck LaFLange (04:36.738)
Hahaha

Danny (05:05.584)
a full think. So, yeah, immediately I got fucked up, like immediately. I liked it. It was what I wanted. I didn't realise it's what I wanted, but I really liked it. And I continued doing that for a long time.

Chuck LaFLange (05:07.266)
Jeez, man. Wow. No kidding, eh? No kidding, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (05:22.182)
Okay, okay. Well, why don't you take us through the kind of progression like your testimony as it were, right? Yeah, yeah Yeah, yeah, Canada Calgary Canada is where I'm from. Yeah, so and then Saskatchewan so up there with Hard Knocks Talks and Yeah Yeah, yeah so

Danny (05:23.676)
Yeah.

Danny (05:28.456)
A testimony, eh? Where are you from, Canada, eh?

Danny (05:37.548)
and that ah Saskatchewan I can't even say that now I'm like Dan, Dan from Saskatchewan Dan, I love you

Chuck LaFLange (05:47.582)
And then, and his, we have a very, a mutual friend, Chantel from Trap House Testimonies. I'm sure you've, you've come across. Yeah, yeah. So Chantel and I were like in the same city, in the same part of the, in the same part of the city for a long time. We just never crossed paths until, until recovery, right? So, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Danny (05:51.945)
Ah, yeah, sure. Sure, yes, yes. I'll stay there, man.

Danny (06:00.336)
I can't believe I can actually pay it now. Alright, my testimony. So really my story, my journey. So that was my introduction at that age, you know, pretty young. I mean, you know what, brother? I deal with so many people these days who picked up at 8 and 9. And I mean, like literally started abusing substances at that age. That is so fucked up and so sad, you know? Breaks my heart, man. My daughter's 6.

Chuck LaFLange (06:18.062)
That's crazy, eh?

Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (06:24.562)
Isn't it? Yep. Ah, it's hard to imagine. Yeah.

Danny (06:30.364)
Well, you know, people's, families are using drugs and they've got kids and they introduce that into their home life. Like I heard a story just the other day, so again off-track, yeah I'll start with my testimony in just a second though. But this kills me man, like when a mum is giving her daughter drugs at a young age like that, fuck off mate, that makes me really angry bro. I just think, how dare you.

Chuck LaFLange (06:58.642)
It does. It does. But okay, so let's talk about that for a minute, Dan. There's a part of me that gets instantly really pissed off when I hear things like that. Then there's a part of me that says, that's just a matter of degrees of what you'll do in addiction. So how sick is that mom? Right? What pain, what trauma has gotten her to a point where she's giving her daughter drugs?

Danny (07:00.234)
Anyway.

Meh.

Danny (07:08.864)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (07:24.082)
Right? And not that it's never excusable. There comes, there's certain things that just aren't, but it still makes me wonder about the human condition and how somebody gets so sick and so messed up in the head that they think that's an acceptable practice. Right? You know what I mean? Like, you know.

Danny (07:37.544)
Yeah, yeah. And I don't ever want to forget where I come from. Like, this is what that statement just brought up for me. It was, I don't forget where I come from, you know? And I don't think I ever will. Like, I was a really, I was an animal using my drugs. I still don't ever think it's ever okay. And there's no fucking excuse for giving your kid drugs, man. Get like that. No, I know you're not, bro. I know you're not.

Chuck LaFLange (07:43.81)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (08:01.086)
No, no, it's just not. Again, I'm not trying to make excuses for her. It's the curious part of me that says like, fuck, what happened to her? You know, like what happened to somebody? Like, you know, yeah, yeah.

Danny (08:09.509)
No, I get it. I get it. I get it. And yes, but you know what it is. I've got a six year old daughter I mentioned already, right? It's only been since she's been brought into this life in recovery, and I'm not trying to get on my high horse or anything like that, but and I worked in recovery in the field for a solid 10 years listening to people's abuse stories growing up where their parents are

Chuck LaFLange (08:17.165)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (08:25.055)
No, no, no.

Chuck LaFLange (08:34.705)
Oh.

Danny (08:36.16)
done this and that to them or foster carers or adoptive parents have done this and that to them. I choose today just to um, yeah like I can't advocate for both sides. I just hope that those people can get help and stop doing those shit. Maybe just hearing me say that will make them snap out of it enough to at least consider what you're doing.

Chuck LaFLange (08:54.382)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (08:59.378)
Yeah, right, you know, because that's fucked up, man. You know, somebody's got to protect the kid, like, you know, when you're in single digits, you know. Yeah.

Danny (09:04.84)
Anyway, but yeah, like I'm traumatized. Whenever I hear stuff with kids these days, like it literally traumatizes me. It's really weird, bro. I've become incredibly soft and it's not soft, but it's sensitive in recovery. And I've got this thing, bro, where if you tell me some pain you go through, I feel it in my body. It's really bizarre. Like I'm a fucking weirdo. Like I literally, if you tell me an injury that you did to yourself, for example,

Chuck LaFLange (09:18.814)
Yeah. Empathetic.

Chuck LaFLange (09:25.754)
Ah man. Yeah.

Danny (09:34.364)
I have to be in the moment, but I feel it in my body. And I always have feeling that stuff, like I was just talking about. So I guess I'm just protecting myself as well when I say that stuff.

Chuck LaFLange (09:37.266)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (09:44.658)
Fair enough, right? Fair enough. It's funny that feeling of empathy, I used to, you know, I was a pretty hard guy for a long time. Not as hard as I made out to be, but now it's not even an episode if I don't cry. Right? So what you just said there made me think of that, like, yeah. It's like, oh, shut up. Oh, Chris is crying again. Well, that wasn't hard.

Danny (09:53.173)
Yeah, you are. Just kidding.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Danny (10:01.16)
Yeah

I'm a big baby, but I cry all the time. And guess what? By crying, I've learned, well, it's part of me. Like I don't start bawling my eyes out, but I definitely get teary often. And it's nice to hear that you do too. It really provides an amazing connection with people when I'm able to do that, when I do get sensitive. And it's usually when I talk about my son, my daughter, or my life.

Chuck LaFLange (10:31.894)
Yeah. Right.

Danny (10:32.184)
I can get it through my eyes and it's pure gratitude and also just a little bit oversensitive in recovery. It's probably the reason I use drugs for so long.

Chuck LaFLange (10:44.575)
But is that the thing, right? So we block the feels for so long, right? We don't want to feel, we try not to, all the things that we do with dope. So are you making up for lost time now? Is that what it is? Like, I don't, but it's the same thing for me, man. Like I'm just like, wow, it happens a lot. It happens a lot, you know, right?

Danny (11:02.28)
Yeah, I am making up for lost time, but even more importantly, like just learning to know. I have really discovered this really important thing that I think everyone's looking for that I can be me. I can be me. I don't have to put on, I do put on front and mask, of course, depending what professionals or who I'm with. But generally in this space, I can be truly me.

And I love that, like that lights me up and that truly me will do whatever happens. If I cry, I won't even say sorry. If I do say sorry, it's only, I'll say in the same sentence, I'm only saying sorry, just to make you feel more comfortable because I actually like it. You know? I only apologize to make you feel better because I know people get a bit uncomfortable when I start getting teary, you know?

Chuck LaFLange (11:32.19)
Yeah, yeah, right.

Chuck LaFLange (11:47.096)
Hahaha

Danny (11:58.252)
I'm not really saying sorry to you, I'm just making you feel a bit more better about it, okay? Yeah, cool.

Chuck LaFLange (12:03.526)
I absolutely love it. I absolutely love it. Right. So, so, okay. So you know what? Fuck the test. And what do you think? Here's, here's the thing. I don't really enjoy the recovery story episodes so much anymore because it's like, I don't want everybody to relive their shit. I don't want to relive mine. I don't want to have to, you know what I mean? Yeah. Right. So like, yeah. Yeah.

Danny (12:08.109)
Alright.

Danny (12:18.485)
I'm just your garden variety heroin addict mate. I'll just quickly, I would rob, steal, I'd hurt you. I would use dirty needles in the back of the flats in Cabra Madder. I would do anything to get my fix. There was no limits to what I would do. And throughout that, I ended up, you know, I spent over, you know, between the age of 18 and 28, I spent the majority of that time in prison.

Chuck LaFLange (12:32.758)
Yep.

Danny (12:45.648)
I've had some horrific injuries. I've been in comas. I've cut my Achilles tendon in half. I've fractured my leg. I've had brain injuries. I literally would go to any lengths to get on. I fell out of the third story window, climbing up sheets. I've already got down, sweet, but then on my way back up, I was stoned. This is a rehab, by the way. And as I got right to the last bit, I put my hand out to old mate, because I had his drugs too.

Chuck LaFLange (12:55.723)
Holy.

Danny (13:15.144)
And I slipped, man, and I slipped down the wall and just boom, I hit the embankment. I've cut my Achilles tendon in half on a piece of glass trying to do a break and then I got caught for that. I went to jail for that because my blood was everywhere. Yeah, my using was just like that. I hurt my family, I lost. At the end of my addiction, there was nobody left in my life. I was quite a popular kid. I had a lot of mates. I had this beautiful mom who kind of

Chuck LaFLange (13:21.304)
Oh wow.

Chuck LaFLange (13:26.368)
Oh.

Danny (13:44.668)
let me bring my mates around. We would be robbing all the schools in the area or building sites and we'd build skate parks in my house. I used to be a really good skateboard rider and that would bring all the boys around, you know. So, but yeah, that's a little bit about the journey, bro. Sorry I cut you off there.

Chuck LaFLange (13:54.737)
Okay. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (14:01.982)
No, no, not at all. That was all really interesting. You know what? It sounds... Animal Kingdom, that show, is based on Australia. It sounds like maybe it was based on your house, right? I can't...

Danny (14:08.769)
Uh, yeah. Oh, ma, ma. What was the name, ma? The- the... Yeah, the man.

Chuck LaFLange (14:15.343)
I can't remember what it was actually called down there, what the family was done in Australia.

Danny (14:18.66)
That's not a big deal. Yeah man, yeah those, yeah look nah I was never a bad, I was never a gangster or anything, I was just literally a leech bro, I would just suck the life out of anyone to get my drugs. I was good at it, like I was stoked every day, I was stoked every day you know, but never any big high roller, like the cars I was stealing were literally just Toyota Corollas and maybe a Commodore you know like,

Chuck LaFLange (14:32.85)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (14:45.102)
Hahaha.

Danny (14:46.908)
I wasn't stealing the mad fast cars. But I'll tell you what, bro, I used to run from every single police chase and I would get away from at least 50% of them. I always got really good at bouncing fences. And even with the dogs chasing me, coppers chasing me, I used to weigh like 60 kilos. Now I'm 103. I used to weigh 60 kilos quite agile and when I'm running for my life, I was pretty quick.

Chuck LaFLange (15:14.554)
I can run faster scared than you can mad, right? All the things, right? All the things. So what, oh geez, you know, first I gotta say, every story I've heard from an Australian tells me you guys are some hard motherfuckers down there. Right? I just, I gotta tell you, I've never heard somebody be like, oh, I was just this like softie that, you know, did stuff. But it's like, all you guys down there were just like full blown nut jobs when you're in the life, right? So I just, you know.

Danny (15:16.602)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, bro.

Danny (15:41.64)
Man, not compared to you guys, no way. Nah.

Chuck LaFLange (15:45.779)
I'm Canadian, right? We're polite about everything we do, right? So, right? Yeah.

Danny (15:51.726)
Yeah, yeah, look, in saying that, I am connected with some crazy motherfuckers here in Sydney. Like, I know some of the real OG gangsters from Sydney and Melbourne, when you saw flowers in Melbourne, like some of these men, and I'm not one of them, I honestly am not, like some of these men that I know just spit me out, bro. Like some of the stories

But I am mates, I'll tell you one thing I'm good at. I'm good with connecting with people. Doesn't matter how rough, tough, big, boof heavy you are, I can still make a connection if I want to. And I'm not saying I can do that to everyone, but it's just been one of my little talents or something. I've always been able to connect with the right people, you know, to help me and to help them, I hope.

Chuck LaFLange (16:40.478)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, fair enough, right? Fair enough. So what's your recovery? What's, when's that start? How does that look? What finally worked for you and kicked your ass into starting to make better choices, right?

Danny (16:54.092)
Chuck, I love that we're into this already. Good on us, eh? Skip the fucking bullshit. All right, you know, skip the mess. Let's talk about the message, eh? What? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Talk about the mess. Let's talk about the message. Mate, bro, I attempted so many detoxes and rehabs. If you ever listen to any of my stuff, I talk about my 50th attempt, I got it. So 49 attempts, I was literally known.

Chuck LaFLange (16:56.914)
Yeah, yeah, right. All that. Fuck it, right? You know.

Chuck LaFLange (17:03.925)
Yeah, I like that. I'm stealing it. I'm stealing it, right?

Danny (17:21.736)
on a first name basis at all of our public system here in Sydney. You know, I would go in and I'd go out. But finally, this time around, I went to a detox where I took drugs in with me, like I always would, or I'd do everything I could wrong. You know, I had my mobile phone on me. You weren't supposed to have that. I was I so I got out of detox and I went to the short term program.

I got out of detox hanging out because I was using in detox, right? So I ended up in this rehab hanging out and I thought, fuck, I've got to do something different this time, you know, I've done this so many times and I don't know that I thought that at the time, but one thing I do know is I started doing things quite different. I had myself a pen and paper. Um, they gave me this big book, this assignment book that you had to do all this writing, I started writing.

And I also did five things that I was grateful for each day. And I also did a short little inventory. What did I do good today? And is there something I could do better tomorrow? It would take me eight minutes to do five things I was grateful for. Dot point and something I did well today. And is there something I could do better tomorrow? That's what I started doing, brother. And I started doing that every day.

Chuck LaFLange (18:23.49)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (18:40.578)
What a difference it makes, eh? What a difference it makes. As you know, as we discussed beforehand, we discussed, you know what? I'm gonna tell you my daily gratitude story, bro, because now we're having a two-way conversation. So my mom came and picked me up. There's two things that are gonna happen at the end of the show, daily gratitudes and your love. So I'm gonna tell you about the your love message, and then, because it all ties in together. So my mom, after years of disconnecting me just staying the fuck away from the family, they never had to suffer through all that stuff. I just disappeared for years at a time. My mom chose a new tactic.

Danny (18:43.301)
I truly believe that someone here. Yep.

Danny (18:49.254)
Hey, give me!

Chuck LaFLange (19:09.73)
She just started messaging me, you are loved. She would end, we started talking and all those crazy, erratic conversations you have with your family when you're being an asshole, you know the type. She would end those with you are loved. And I'd be like, okay, and I'd back whenever. But over time, it caught on, right? Because here's the thing, when you're in it, you don't feel loved, you don't even feel lovable, let alone loved, right? So she started hitting me with this you are loved message. And then when the day came that I had just had enough.

I just PTSD had completely taken over my life to deal with that. It was all drugs. It was like, cause I went through some really bad anyway. I knew my mom was there for the first time in years. I knew somebody loved me. So I asked her to, can you come get me please? And she did. So she comes and picks me up. She's got a couple of friends with her. It's about 45 minutes drive back to back to the town. She said, and they're like, they've got this apartment ready for me to go move into. And like, everything's just like sensory overload and they're all.

They're big recovery people, 12-step people, so they're on me about, oh yeah, this, and this. We stopped, we picked up a burger and it's the first meal I've had in days, maybe weeks. Right? And I'm just like, RRRR

Danny (20:34.045)
Yeah, yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (20:38.082)
She gets me back whatever. I end up relapsing over the course of the next, you know, while, but on my last relapse, we're on our way back into town again, doing the same thing. And she kind of hits me with this journal and she says, you're starting your daily gratitude. Enough is enough. You're gonna fucking do this. And I go, okay, you mean this. And there, just like yourself, man, every single day I wrote down the things I was grateful for. And until you just said it.

Danny (20:54.4)
Wow.

Danny (21:02.016)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (21:05.654)
Don't get me wrong, it's an important part of what we do here on the show in my life. But until you just said it, I don't know that impact really, that I understood the impact that had on me. Because yeah, that just started everything, right? It just starts that, yeah, you know, yeah.

Danny (21:07.532)
Yeah.

Danny (21:14.708)
Yeah.

Yeah. It's the big thing I did different this time. It's the first big thing I did different this time. You know? Um, yeah, cool. And, and look, it's one thing I tell everyone else to do. If I get a sponsor, a sponsor, um, it's simple, you know, like just start right. Right. Yeah. And I love that thing. Like, are you willing to do whatever it takes? Yeah. And I was this time, I was willing to do whatever it takes.

Chuck LaFLange (21:25.162)
Right? Yeah, man. Yeah. Right. So, yeah. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (21:42.507)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (21:47.078)
Right. So that was, you've been good since, right? That was your, you've been in recovery since.

Danny (21:54.197)
All right, so, you know, it was definitely, so look, that was the first rehab went for a month. Then I went on to do a three month program where I struggled big time in the early days. And look, the day that things changed for me completely was the 25th of December, Christmas Day, 2009.

That day, I was about to throw it all away. I was about to give the money over to the drug dealer. And that day I changed my mind. I said, you know what? I went through the process in my head, you know, all the stuff they're teaching me, the consequential thinking. I thought, if I go, if I get on, I know what's gonna happen. I'm gonna end up dead for one thing, back in rehab, back in jail. Or I could just...

I've tried once just not doing it. Like actually, this is when you've actually committed. I'm about to get on. So this is a very hard time to change your mind. You might be able to change it earlier, but I was never able to change it. But I'm about there to do it. And that day I decided I'm not gonna do it and I went back to rehab that day, right? And made that day a miracle happened for me, Chuck. I've never come close to using a game, bro.

Chuck LaFLange (22:59.362)
Fucking right it is.

Yeah.

Danny (23:16.032)
That was 14 years. This Christmas day has been 14 years. The obsession and compulsion to use, a miracle happened, mate. It was lifted and I haven't come close after 49 rehabilitation attempts. Let me tell you, I would fucking knock the television off the rehab wall, the detox wall to go and get on. I would steal the, I would do anything, mate, you know, to get me money.

Chuck LaFLange (23:21.246)
Congratulations, early, proud of you, man. Absolutely, right? Yeah, keep that.

Chuck LaFLange (23:45.089)
Yeah, yeah, right.

Danny (23:45.84)
I finally fucking worked out now, but that doesn't mean that it just was given to me that Christmas day and I've just been sweet ever since. I had to work my ass off. I've worked really, really hard and I continue today to work really, really hard on my recovery. I threw myself in the middle of the 12 step fellowships. I got myself a sponsor. I found myself a home group. I did service. I prayed like a motherfucker.

Chuck LaFLange (23:56.062)
Yeah, of course, of course.

Danny (24:16.856)
I started giving back to other people and I hated every single last bit of it, man. It was tedious, it felt so uncomfortable, but I just kept doing it because nothing else was working for me. Finally, I just started to get a little bit, well I tell you, I was 10 months clean. I was on my way home from a 12-step fellowship meeting.

I didn't have a license by the way, I was disqualified for 40 years when I got cleaned from getting my license. Yeah, 40 years I couldn't get a license. And this is a God job, man, I had to catch a bus everywhere, right? One night I'm coming home from the bus stop, it's like 10pm, I've just done a meeting and there's a full moon, bro, there's a full moon up there, right? And I look up at it.

Chuck LaFLange (24:48.578)
That's a thing.

Danny (25:11.48)
and I just got this mad as glow, this mad as connection to the moon that day. And I understand that today is being maybe a spiritual connection. Like spirituality is not about God for me, it's about my spirit coming alive, you know? And that night I felt connected to like the moon, you know? And that day made forward, I started to discover what gratitude was, you know? It was, the first 10 months were horrific, bro. I used to stand there at the bus stop.

Chuck LaFLange (25:26.967)
Yeah, man.

Danny (25:40.168)
on my way to a meeting and I just want to walk in front of that bus bro like I just thought fuck this, this is fucked. My head would not shut up you know. Shame, guilt, remorse, anxiety, fear, anger, like all of those things mate. And I used to keep a pretty good face too like people would think oh damn it's alright but I was just brewing mate. I was just brewing and yeah so.

Chuck LaFLange (25:45.282)
Yeah, man.

Chuck LaFLange (25:49.71)
Hmm.

Chuck LaFLange (26:06.439)
So what you're describing, there's another parallel there. I'm 14, 15 months now, something like that, 15 months. Yeah, 21st would be 15 months, 14 months, sorry. So thank you. That's hilarious that you're saying that, man. So I'm in Thailand and I was at the Yachter Treatment Center. It's a trauma treatment center. Mike Miller is the owner and head therapist there and he's also, he's,

Danny (26:12.66)
Congratulations brother, yes! Yep.

Yep.

Danny (26:26.949)
Oh yeah, all that spirit.

Chuck LaFLange (26:34.294)
20 years clean himself. And he explained something to me, he helped me articulate something about this metaphoric fence in recovery. At one point you're on the addiction side, and at one point you're on the recovery side. And all the smiling and nodding you did while you were on the addiction side of that fence makes sense, right? So that's just kind of what you just described to me. And it's exactly what happened with me. It's funny enough, right around the 10 month, right around the 10 month period actually, yeah. Oh, well, closer to it.

Danny (27:00.756)
Here's a vroom.

Chuck LaFLange (27:03.374)
to a year, I guess. Anyway, same range. But it was when I decided I was coming to Thailand, my whole life changed before I even left. It was just all of a sudden, all these little tidbits, these gems that you hear in the recovery circles started to make sense. Yes, yes, well said, right? So all of a sudden you find yourself on that recovery side of that fence. This is when my episodes started to change, where I didn't want to hear the gruesome details anymore. I wanted to have these conversations instead of...

Danny (27:03.988)
Yeah.

Danny (27:09.892)
Um...

Danny (27:17.801)
Yeah, the penny drops.

Yes

Yeah.

Danny (27:32.02)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (27:32.726)
You know, that shit, you know? Right, the importance of living within your values and how close, like how that's a shortcut to relapse. It's as soon as you start not telling the truth, not doing what you say, saying what you do, all those things, you know what I'm talking about, right? But it's funny that you said that because it just rings so true for me as well, right? Is that, aha, now it all makes sense. So and you smile and nod a lot in the beginning. Like, oh, I know, I know, but no, you don't. Right?

Danny (27:52.19)
Oh, bruh.

Danny (27:59.872)
That's good to hear it said back like that. He's had a bit of faking till you make it too. Do you think that's what it is to smile? Yeah. You don't want to be a kid. You don't want to make a shit-luck of yourself. So you just go, yeah. You just go. You go, no, shut the fuck up. Just shut up.

Chuck LaFLange (28:03.307)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (28:06.802)
Oh, of course it is. Of course it is. Right. 100%. Even if it's not with intent, I think it is though. Right. You know what I mean? Like you're just doing what you got to do to get by. Right. Yeah. I know. I know. Right. You know. I see your experience being very different than mine. Of course, you've got many more years than I do. For me, almost everybody I talk to has more years than me. Whereas with you, you would be surrounded in much more people that have much less time than you.

Right? So you'd get that smile and nod quite a bit. Right? Me, I'm just stopped doing the smile and nod. So, right?

Danny (28:36.356)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's so true, that's so true. I'm definitely, one thing I learned in my training, my work is I'm a conscious observer. So I love to watch and I don't do it all the time. I wish I did it way more often, but I'm watching like I'm watching the body language and I'm not saying anything. And often I'm feeling for you too, you know, like I don't need to.

Chuck LaFLange (29:02.966)
Yeah.

Danny (29:04.02)
I don't need to say anything to know how you feel, well, what I think you feel anyway. Sometimes I might be right, sometimes I might be wrong, but more so to the point, like I see all the assholes out there, bro, the way they treat their families, their partners, the shopkeepers, like I see all this anger in the world. And that's what I mean by that. The conscious, there's also lots of beautiful stuff too. Sorry, I was just going down the boat path. I see that as well, but.

Chuck LaFLange (29:09.862)
Yeah.

Danny (29:32.272)
I also, I just, I just see unhappiness. That's the thing. That's what I'm seeing people in pain. They're unhappy with their life because you don't know what you don't know. You know, if you, if you're caught up in this morrigan role and maybe you're getting on it and you know, the kids are screaming and you've got this and that. Like people don't realize that they're missing out on, I'm a big fan of total absence, it works for me, you know? Um, I'm.

Chuck LaFLange (30:00.882)
Yeah, yeah, as am I. I don't hold any other recovery methods in shame or anything, but myself too. For abstinence works for me. So, right.

Danny (30:08.688)
Yeah. So I just see a lot of, I just see a lot of shit out there, you know? Um, I don't know where that wire just dropped out. It was just around that, oh, faking to make it stuff. Like all I want to do is just be a better person. That's recovery just equals being a better person each day, you know? And I've come a long way and I've got a long way to go. And I just hope I continue moving forward and become the person I'm.

Chuck LaFLange (30:27.03)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (30:31.118)
Yeah. Right. That's, I've now decided that sobriety was just the first step. Right? That's just the first step of it, man. Right? Recovery for me is about, I don't even like, I don't even know if recovery is the right term. I mean, it is because it's the accepted one, but like, for me, it's like, I just want fulfillment. I just want to live a great life. I just, you know, I want to move forward from all that crap. I don't, you know, and it all, it hits me here every day in Thailand. I've been my first place for the first time in years.

Danny (30:38.988)
It is just the first step. Yeah, that's great. I agree.

Danny (30:55.18)
Well...

Chuck LaFLange (31:00.394)
and I rented a house here, like, it's just like, fuck man. I get on my scooter and I drive and I got my dog and I'm just like, life is grand, man. Life is grand, right? Like, you know, for the first time, so yeah.

Danny (31:09.168)
It absolutely is. Chuck, let me tell you a little bit about how amazing recovery can be. First of all, I couldn't get out of a five kilometer radius of my hometown because that's one, where I got my methadone from and two, where I bought my heroin from and my ice. So I couldn't leave home because I had to get on every day. I was dependent on the substance and in particular, I couldn't go.

Chuck LaFLange (31:25.975)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (31:32.939)
Yeah.

Danny (31:36.876)
because of the methadone, you had to pick up my methadone at the clinic each day. But, you know, my journey of recovery, 10 months after I had that spiritual awakening, seeing the moon, my world opened up, mate. I, not long after that, I went to my very first NA convention in fucking Chiang Mai in Thailand, right? Yeah. That was in 2010. Um, the first, my first NA convention was in Chiang Mai, Thailand, 2010. And since then.

Chuck LaFLange (31:56.166)
Oh, really? Oh, okay. Yeah.

Danny (32:07.164)
Um, I have been to Thailand probably 10 times. I've been to Bali probably 20 times. I've traveled the world. Um, I've been to, you know, North America. I haven't been to Canada yet. I can't wait next year. Um, I've been all over Asia. I've been to Fiji, New Zealand. Anyway, my point is, right. I always put recovery first, right? Every single one of those countries, I would basically find a meeting.

and I'd get my ass there. And anything you do after that is a bonus, but I always put my recovery first. I've also had a beautiful daughter in recovery. My son, who's 22 years old now, we've been building a relationship together for the last, I'll say 10 years. I'd like to say 14 years, but I was a selfish fuck for the first five years, bro. Like I was just all about me.

Chuck LaFLange (32:56.811)
Ah, that's awesome.

Chuck LaFLange (33:03.504)
It takes a while, right? Yeah, yeah, it takes a while, right? Yeah, yeah, you know. Yeah.

Danny (33:07.136)
Yeah, thanks a lot. I've bought a house in recovery, the first person in my family to ever, and it's just a small investment property up in Queensland, but I bought a house, I built myself a career. Bro, I was just useless in addition. I was always, all I said it earlier, I was just a leech. I would just suck and the life out of you and anyone around you, I was just take, take today. I haven't taken from anyone for a long time, bro.

Chuck LaFLange (33:33.674)
Yeah. That's awesome. That's awesome. And well, and you're given these days. What's this about an app?

Danny (33:41.996)
So yes, I'm the founder of Encapsulator, which it's on my wall behind me. And I should also just say, I know this is probably a podcast if you can't see, but this behind me, there's my vision board behind me. This is incredible, man. This is my recovery, actually, this board that you can see. If anyone can't see, on there I've got Sober Squad, which is one of my brands, other than the Danny Shannon brand. I always represent Australia, got our flag.

of Australia. I've got my podcast called Kick the Shit. Leonardo is my cat. He's on every single one of my live streams. Now, he got my daughter Amalia, my son there. Now this pig head represents, there was a little joke I started throwing around calling people swines who are the trolls. You know, on social media you get a lot of trolls, you know. So he represents the trolls. And my idea with the trolls is we try and love them back to life. We don't block them. We say, come on.

Chuck LaFLange (34:16.777)
Hahaha

Chuck LaFLange (34:30.911)
Yeah.

Danny (34:39.2)
You know, it's sometimes bro, sometimes I've literally got trolls subscribing to my channels. But more importantly up here, we've got Encapsulator and here in the background too, you've got Dream Big 2027 and you've got New York there. Okay. My manifestation, my visualization, I'm making this shit happen is to be, have an office in Manhattan overlooking New York by 2027, bro.

Chuck LaFLange (34:40.522)
Ha ha

Chuck LaFLange (34:56.845)
Yeah.

Danny (35:09.004)
So Encapsulator is a video journaling app. It allows people like you and I to choose a particular program depending on your needs. We take you on a journey of personal development and discovery. You answer questions that will pop up on screen, that will guide you, then help you explore your hopes, your dreams, your fears, your future aspirations. And we, and then you,

Chuck LaFLange (35:09.493)
Oh, wow.

Danny (35:38.844)
You go through the different activities basically until you complete the program and reach your goals. We support you every step of the way. Chuck, the idea around video and why that's so important is because when we verbalize our goals out loud, it's very beneficial. When we say stuff out loud, it helps to keep us accountable and motivated. Secondly, we provide this safe place for people to express themselves without

any judgment. It's private, secure, nobody else has seen this stuff, unless you choose to share it with someone. So when we get something off our chest, the problem shared is a problem halves and way more important too, as I've said, there's so much pain out there, right? People aren't talking about their feelings. If we can get you comfortable talking about your feelings and if you maybe say something that you've never shared before, and this happens all the time, by the way, for some reason, people start talking.

And I've heard the feedback and they talk about stuff they've never spoken about before. My hope is that once you break down some of those barriers and you take it off your chest and you say it out loud that people will then go and seek the professional help that they need to deal with this stuff. And even if they don't, just getting off their chest once will give them permission to say it again and again and again. So that's Encapsulator, mate. That's my mobile mental health and wellness app and it's available on.

Chuck LaFLange (36:53.586)
I love that man.

Chuck LaFLange (37:03.263)
I love that.

Danny (37:06.688)
iOS and Android and we'd hope to we're getting some big creators out there now developing their own programs There's what program called the recovery with Danny Shannon We're getting other creators out there to create their own programs at the moment. It's completely free. There is a subscription you can Subscribe to get access to some more programs, but let me just give you a little hint that the free programs are just as valuable as any of the

Chuck LaFLange (37:22.892)
Okay.

Danny (37:33.448)
subscribe program. Our subscribe program just gives you a bit more variety, you know. Yeah bro, sorry, I just sort of get that out there. So that's later.

Chuck LaFLange (37:35.296)
There you go.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, no, I really wanted to talk about that. I did see it, I didn't have a chance to really dig deep, so I'm glad that we're having the conversation. And of course, we'll put some links to that into the show notes here as well, folks, so you can check that out, right? That really, you've got my attention. I've been vlogging since I got here, and I think that's a little bit different, but it makes me wanna check it out, right? Maybe I'll give it a go and see how that goes. Yeah, yeah, why not, right?

Danny (37:51.68)
Yeah man, love that.

Danny (38:00.02)
Yeah, great athletes and coaches.

Danny (38:06.536)
Look, it's quite simple. You just download it. You choose a program. We've got over 25 different programs there. You know, there's the checkup from the neck up. You know, a little, that's one of my daily inventories. It's kind of that thing I said to you before about what did I do good today and what could I do better tomorrow? We've got the consequences of addiction program. So you start exploring some of the harm that we've done and how we can repair some of the stuff. We've got early recovery.

And then we've also got programs like Hear Me Out, just for people who feel like they're not being heard, come and yell at our app. And a whole heap of other programs, the Positive Mind Psychology programs, the Gratitude programs, so on and on.

Chuck LaFLange (38:50.91)
No kidding, eh? No kidding. Well, definitely gonna check that out. Definitely gonna check that out. Is it available for PC as well, or is it just for mobile devices right now?

Danny (38:54.225)
Yeah, man.

Yeah, bro, actually great. Um, it's, it's got even more features on, on the desktop, the desktop version. Um, yeah, great. Yeah. Just go to encapsulated.io. Yeah. Now go to encapsulated.io and, um, yeah. And the desktop version is incredible. Actually. Um, you're actually the first person that ever said, can I get a desktop version? Desktop always comes first.

Chuck LaFLange (39:04.438)
Cool, cool, for my life is on the desktop, right? So that's why I ask it's a bit selfish for me to ask that, right, because it's like, yeah, I basically use my phone for phone calls right now, yeah, yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (39:18.657)
Yep.

Danny (39:26.26)
All this stuff, I'm totally... I'm... I am.

Chuck LaFLange (39:28.208)
Yeah, yeah, right. Surprisingly though, so many apps aren't available for des- because the desktop was there for, you know, trial or whatever. What the hell that's about, right? Yeah.

Danny (39:33.157)
Yeah, I don't know how they-

You know what, do you know what Chuck, my app, it's taken me six years to get to where we are. It's had so, it's had thousands and thousands of hours work now. I've got to admit, it's not the, it's not amongst the, I plan to have the amongst the top five mental health apps in the world. Um, we're not there yet. We're still learning and growing.

Chuck LaFLange (39:55.696)
Something tells me that's like if anybody's going to pull that off after, you know, half an hour knowing you, I got to say, man, right.

Danny (40:01.772)
Ah, thank you very much. That's what this is, Dream Big. Guys, I've got on my wall written Dream Big and this is to everyone out there, like always just this lost empty soul, an empty shell of a human being for so long. I was consumed with methadone, heroin, crack meth, anything I could get my hands on. I had no feelings, but when I entered recovery in 2009, I certainly, I had no idea what I was doing, but slowly.

One day at a time, one foot in front of the other, I got heavily involved in recovery, and slowly, I started to open up and explore what a beautiful, beautiful world this world can be. And gratitude has played a massive part, but what I wanted to say on that is don't ever give up and dream big. Dream the fuck big, because we can do anything. You see it all the time with all these famous people. Look at their stories, they all come from a shit.

Well, most of them come from a shit and they build themselves up. You can do it too, you know.

Chuck LaFLange (40:59.817)
Yeah.

Absolutely. You know what I often say, if all the addicts in the world got sober at the same time, we'd take over the world. Everybody would be working for us. You know, the kind of hustle it takes, the kind of like the grind, the ingenuity, the drive, the tenacity that you're putting into staying high, right? If we all switched that into going good, the whole world would be working for us.

Danny (41:08.579)
Ah, okay.

Danny (41:21.248)
Oh yeah, absolutely. I can imagine what if we all started using again? It'd be more like the apocalypse, wouldn't it? Everyone would be shocked.

Chuck LaFLange (41:27.374)
Oh, geez. Yeah. Right. Yeah. No kidding. Hey, listen, I know we don't have a ton of time today, but we've got more opportunity to get together, Danny. I'm glad that we got a chance to touch base on a few things to talk about your app, you know? Yeah, man. Right. The 29th, I've already told the boys that you're gonna come on for Black Ash radio. So that's the Black List podcast and the Ash is Awesome podcast got together to make Black Ash, right?

Danny (41:35.278)
I'm always gonna get this bit.

Danny (41:41.544)
I really enjoyed this chat, I love a good chat man, I love a good quick chat, it's great.

Danny (41:54.348)
What time is it?

Chuck LaFLange (41:57.718)
That's your time, that will be, what is it for me? It's, you're four hours ahead of me, right? Yeah, you are. And I start that at nine a.m. So it'll be one p.m. Saturday for you. Yeah, so a pretty reasonable time, right? Yeah, yeah, right. It's Friday night for back home, right? So, oh yeah, I'm starting to figure that out. I'm gonna, I'll probably keep on top of you, yeah. Yeah.

Danny (42:09.664)
Perfect, that's excellent, you're going to have to keep me reminded because I'm a bit slow sometimes.

Danny (42:20.82)
I've got so much to grow, I swear to God. Look, my opinion's covered in posters and still one... Yeah, I'll try and... I actually had two meetings that were... Oh, good. I need an ABA to be in secondary.

Chuck LaFLange (42:29.739)
I'm a poster child for ADHD, brother. You don't have to tell me. I get it. Right. Yeah. Hey, here, I'll tell you a quick one. Do you know how many ADHD kids it takes to change a light bulb?

Danny (42:40.63)
That's it.

Chuck LaFLange (42:40.842)
Want to ride bikes? No. Yeah, that's horrible. I got lots of dad jokes. Listen, that takes us to my favorite part of the show. And that's the daily gratitude. What you got for us today? Yeah.

Danny (42:44.628)
And uh, well...

Nah, that's okay. Yeah, let's see.

And look, I often say gratitude is my drug. You know, my daily gratitude today. Well, I've had a really heavy morning. I've got to say, like I've had some drama. I've been hit with a ten thousand dollar car bill, which automatically I go into. How am I going to get out of this? And I think I've worked out a way to get out of it, by the way. But I was able to just and I was also able to go support a man taking to a doctor's appointment.

I've had a couple of other meetings this morning. It's only 1.30 a.m. And I'll tell you what, man, I spoke to one of my friends on my way home from the last meeting, and I was really wound up, and I said to her, do you know what, I just need to breathe and calm down, and I can do this, you know? So I just wanna say I'm grateful for the ability to identify when I'm getting a bit out of sorts and be able to just bring it back, you know? And if I can't, go to bed, I'll go to bed.

If I need you, I'll go to bed. And I will make, there's nothing I can't handle, brother. Honestly, Chuck, what about you? What's your great daily gratitude?

Chuck LaFLange (43:59.242)
Yeah, yeah, right. Oh, I got lots today. My dog, so I successfully took him for a walk. I only had him for five days now. And the thing is, is every time I go to walk out of my yard, there's these bullies that started with one dog, and now there's three, and I walk out of my yard and they instantly come at us. So I've only been able to play with them in the yard, right? When I drive my scooter around the corner, these little fuckers are chasing me too, right? So this morning I was like, you know what, no way. I'm not living like that.

Danny (44:10.332)
a brand new dog.

Chuck LaFLange (44:28.534)
So I pop out the yard with the dog and they all come at me, and I'm like, brr! Right? And they all backed off. I was like, that's what's up. All right, don't you worry, Sonny. I got your back, bro, right? All right? So fuck them. So I got to go for a nice long walk with them, which makes me happy and gets them used to a leash training and that too, because I'm pretty big on training dogs. So that's my big one for today. Man, I wake up in paradise every single day in my own place with like doing what I love for work.

Danny (44:36.052)
Yeah.

Danny (44:39.644)
Yeah, good shit.

Danny (44:50.112)
Good, good.

Chuck LaFLange (44:57.182)
in a place I can afford to live, like I got so much to be grateful for. Um, last and most certainly not least is every single person that continues to support us, watch us, listen to us, whatever you're doing, like comment, share, you know, do all the things, hit the buttons down below there, you know, all that. And, uh, every time you do these things, you're getting me a little bit closer to living my best life. My base love, my best life is to make a humble living spreading the message. The message is this, if you're an active addiction right now, today could be the day today could be the day that you start a lifelong journey.

Reach out to a friend, reach out to a family member, call into detox, go to a meeting. I don't really care. Do whatever you gotta do to get that journey started because it is so much better than the alternative. And if you have a loved one who's suffering an addiction right now, you're just taking the time to listen to us carry on. If you just take one more minute out of your day and text that person, let them know they are loved. Use the words.

Danny (45:46.024)
You are love.

Chuck LaFLange (45:48.354)
That little glimmer of hope just might be the thing that brings them back. A little bit of a delay.