208 - JAMIE TALL

Chuck LaFLange (00:01.523)
Hello everybody, watchers, listeners, supporters of all kinds. Welcome to another episode of the Ash is Awesome podcast. I'm your host Chuck LaFlange, checking in from Krabi, Thailand, in virtual studio with me halfway around the world, in somewhere in the United States. I'm not even sure where. It's Jamie Tall. How you doing today, Jamie?

Jamie Tall (00:20.682)
I'm doing great and I am coming to you from Athens, Georgia.

Chuck LaFLange (00:25.043)
happens. I remember you saying that now. My bad. My bad. My bad. So how's the weather?

Jamie Tall (00:30.882)
home of the University of Georgia Bulldogs.

Chuck LaFLange (00:34.671)
Ah, oh, okay. See, when I was a kid, we all had Georgia Bulldogs jerseys and stuff up in, even up in Canada, right? So that was one of the popular teams for sure, right? I had no idea where they were from and I wore it strictly for the fashion, but right. So, right. Yeah. How's the weather over there? You'd be probably similar to my weather in Georgia, right? Pretty nice.

Jamie Tall (01:00.23)
Um, it was like 55 in the afternoon, but like 27 in the morning.

Chuck LaFLange (01:07.075)
Oh, okay. So that's not like it is here because it's 530 in the morning here and it is currently 27 degrees. So that'd be about 80, 85 degrees Fahrenheit. So yeah, yeah. See the rest of the world uses this other thing called Celsius. You guys are still on the, you know, right? Yeah, yeah, right. As we're talking about before we hit record, you know, we kind of like to, as Danny said, talk about the mess, not the message, or the message, not the mess so much anymore.

Jamie Tall (01:09.477)
No.

Jamie Tall (01:16.952)
Wow.

Jamie Tall (01:22.274)
Gotcha.

Chuck LaFLange (01:36.531)
But we've got to figure out who you are and what gives you credibility to come on a podcast and start talking about recovery and all that stuff. So why don't you give us kind of the Reader's Digest version of your story. And if you don't mind, I'll interrupt here and there. Before you do that, I'll get you to start with the first time you tried a substance that you remember, the first time you got messed up that you remember. Because I got a couple questions about that and then we'll get into it.

Jamie Tall (01:58.83)
Absolutely. The first time that I got messed up or drugs really became my solution was when I was in high school and I was at a party and I was really trying to like fit in. There was like cute guys there and I was like 16 years old and I really wanted people to like me.

Chuck LaFLange (02:23.767)
Hahaha.

Jamie Tall (02:26.902)
And so they started passing around, you know, some substances, just some, you know, high school kind of, you know, low grade stuff, nothing, nothing too major. But I remember a few minutes after doing these couple different substances that something kind of clicked in my brain and I was no longer anxious or insecure. I actually

felt like confident and I was funny and I was charming and people liked me and I fit in and that was the first time that I was like this is what I've been looking for my whole entire life.

Chuck LaFLange (03:16.507)
So, and that's a response I get from most people, or something along that vernacular, right? Now the next question though is, were you self-aware enough at the time to realize what that had done for you, or does that come with introspection down the road?

Jamie Tall (03:32.486)
No, it happened instantly.

Chuck LaFLange (03:35.003)
Yeah, you knew what this was and what it was doing for you. And okay, see now that's not the typical response. That's about 30% I figure is people that were self-aware enough at the time. Right, so that's, and I don't know why that is so interesting to me, but it has been since day one. So that's kind of always the first thing I like to ask. Right, so I'll let you take it from there and see where we go.

Jamie Tall (03:56.622)
Um, I mean, basically, you know, just like everybody else, my drug of choice was more. So I mean, if it would have stayed, you know, at that kind of like fun high school level, that would have been cool. But unfortunately, for people like me, that was not the case. And I, you know, escalated.

very quickly into a lot of other substances. You know, I also used other things as addictively as I use drugs, relationships, food. So that was really kind of the way that I was really brought up. I mean, my first addiction was escape when I was like five years old. Like, I mean, I was

Chuck LaFLange (04:32.61)
Okay.

Chuck LaFLange (04:48.751)
Okay, this is new. I haven't heard that one ever, so you have my attention. Okay.

Jamie Tall (04:50.718)
Yeah, like, so, yes, that was my very first addiction. So, you know, not being able to cope with the environment that I was raised in, I would do things to escape that. And because I moved so much, went to 12 different schools before I got to high school.

I would, whenever I would move to a new place, I would be like a new person. Or, I would write stories and make up this, these characters and their lives and just convince myself that this, this person I was writing about was me. And I would, you know, read books like, I mean, a lot, like read.

Chuck LaFLange (05:15.058)
Oh wow.

Jamie Tall (05:38.466)
books, like so many books, and put myself in the stories in the books so that I didn't have to be in my life. Also with like video games, you know what I mean? Just like zoned out in these like video games. And then you know, food, like using food for like escape at a very young age. And really just trying to...

Chuck LaFLange (05:47.665)
Wow.

Jamie Tall (06:06.39)
get out of the reality that I was living in.

Chuck LaFLange (06:11.887)
Okay.

Chuck LaFLange (06:16.647)
You specifically, so there's a couple things that you said, and I meant to ask this right off the get go, but so the first thing you said, a couple substances. Now I'm not gonna ask you to name a couple substances. I wanna ask why you say substances and don't say the specific substance. Because most people do, and I think it's interesting that you didn't and you did it with intent. You said substances and not the individual ones. So why is it that you do that?

Jamie Tall (06:25.677)
Mm-hmm.

Jamie Tall (06:40.734)
Um, just to kind of like keep it... I mean everybody knows what high school substances are, right? I mean, doesn't everybody do the same? Yes. Yeah. It's just, you know, when I speak...

Chuck LaFLange (06:48.975)
Well, yeah, they do. They do. I just I found it really interesting that you were obviously doing that with intent, though. Right. So I just, you know, I thought if there's a method to the madness or or, you know, right.

Jamie Tall (07:01.114)
places, usually we don't we don't get into like the detail. I mean, it was like pot and alcohol and there were some people doing some shrooms. If you wanted to know about it, but...

Chuck LaFLange (07:08.359)
Yeah. Okay, okay, now we've done it. Well, okay, so there goes all the intent. Okay, I see, okay, so just, of course I have it then. Okay, that's fine. And the other thing, you're saying the environment you were in, and I do not ask you to relive all of that stuff, but was it a violent thing? Was it a toxic thing? Was it an addiction environment? What was kind of the, what were you trying to escape?

Jamie Tall (07:17.531)
Yeah.

Jamie Tall (07:34.242)
Um, it was, you know, not knowing what I was going to come home to. Was I going to come home to a happy family, happy parents? Was I going to come home to a violent parent doing things to, you know, the other parent? Was I going to come home to a drunk parent? Was I going to come home to the police being at my house? Um, lots of different things.

Chuck LaFLange (07:40.558)
Ah, okay.

Chuck LaFLange (08:00.571)
So how important is stability to you now, hearing that? How important is that to you? From my recent experience attending the trauma center here in Thailand, I've discovered for myself that stability is hugely important. I think for different reasons, but for you, is that something now that you find is a real important thing to avoid? Or is instability, I should say, right?

Jamie Tall (08:25.614)
Absolutely. I actually live off of a blocked Google calendar. Like, I mean, everything is scheduled and I stay on a very specific routine. I can show you. And my ex used to actually like get so frustrated. Like, why do you always have to have everything planned? Like, this is how I stay sober. This is how I stay safe.

Chuck LaFLange (08:39.692)
Now you're just showing off. Okay, okay, right? My life is the opposite of that.

Chuck LaFLange (08:55.175)
Yeah, yeah, so safety, right? Safety. So lack of stability leads to self-soothing, you know, all those things. Okay, so now you've continued on, you've got food and escaping and, you know, you're getting into the drugs and alcohol. Where do we go from there?

Jamie Tall (08:57.523)
Mm-hmm.

Jamie Tall (09:14.646)
So from there I had a son and really was like a one number one mom did really good like being not using or anything like that. I believe that was really more due to a geographical change that I had done, well that my parents had done once again. So

Chuck LaFLange (09:34.452)
Okay.

Yeah.

Jamie Tall (09:38.642)
that and then you know things didn't really get crazy until after I had my daughter and I was addicted to pain medication when I had my daughter and she had to stay in the NICU for six weeks and that was absolutely devastating to me because no matter how hard I tried to stop I couldn't stop using even for this beautiful little girl that I wanted to be a good mom for so bad.

Chuck LaFLange (09:50.586)
Oh.

Jamie Tall (10:04.518)
So that took me, you know, in and out of the circle of jails, institutions, detoxes. But every time I would get out, I couldn't understand the fact that, you know, if I didn't put in, I wouldn't get addicted.

Chuck LaFLange (10:12.315)
All the things, yeah.

Jamie Tall (10:26.186)
I wouldn't go back into this addictive behavior. So every time I would get out of a detox jail institution, I would say, okay, I'm cured. Now I can use like everybody else. And just kept in the same cycle over and over again.

Chuck LaFLange (10:40.023)
Hahaha

Chuck LaFLange (10:43.403)
Right, right. Does that pain medication, does that come from a prescription? Is that where that starts?

Jamie Tall (10:51.434)
Yes, started with a prescription. I actually was selling them. So I actually have a background in sex work. So I was a sex worker for many years and I dated doctors.

and they would pay me with prescriptions. They would just write me prescriptions, me and all my girlfriends. And so I used to just sell them, right? And then one day I was like, well, what is this? You know, like, or, you know what I mean? Just kind of try it out. And the first couple times I tried it, I really didn't like it. And then all of a sudden, like one time, I was like, this is amazing. And so that was how that happened.

Chuck LaFLange (11:09.298)
Okay.

Chuck LaFLange (11:14.748)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (11:25.919)
Yep.

Chuck LaFLange (11:34.503)
Ah, okay. Okay, okay. So... Oh... Where do you even go from here? There's so many conversations to be had around that.

Jamie Tall (11:46.046)
Mm-hmm and sex was also a big escape for me also. I use that definitely as addictively as I use drugs.

Chuck LaFLange (11:51.227)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (11:56.447)
That's funny for myself, that was a big one as well, with sex. And I find now in sobriety that I don't even have interest anymore unless there's connection. Because for me, anything else is a shortcut to relapse. Right? Like I could not do a one night stand anymore. And my life is full of crazy stories. I'm sure, well, we've talked in previous, I'm sure you've got your own plenty of those.

Jamie Tall (12:17.238)
Mm-hmm.

Jamie Tall (12:24.559)
Mm-hmm.

Chuck LaFLange (12:27.311)
And I couldn't, like now zero interest without connection. Right. Just because, because I know, I know for a fact, the moment that shit starts again, that's, that's living outside the values. I'm going to fall out of rhythm and I'm going to end up, you know, back in the chaos, right. You know, so, which is.

Jamie Tall (12:41.356)
Oh yeah, absolutely.

Chuck LaFLange (12:45.499)
When does recovery come to you finally after repeating the cycle however many times?

Jamie Tall (12:51.55)
So I was actually got trafficked by some people. And specifically this like one man who had like a vested interest in me, there was actually a group of men. And so I got trafficked and one day I got arrested. And it was from some weird like off the wall charges from like six years before.

where it was just strange. You know, I say that it was my rescue date. And so I got picked up and had like a variety pack on a Tuesday night, which was normal for me. And put me, it was a, I got busted schedule one, two, three, four and five, which is just like a little bit of everything.

Chuck LaFLange (13:31.123)
What's a variety pack?

Chuck LaFLange (13:43.864)
Like the count on Sesame Street I'm thinking of all of a sudden. Okay, yeah, okay. I probably have enough said on that. Yeah, okay.

Jamie Tall (13:49.165)
Yeah, right. And so I went to jail and while I was in jail, the man who was trafficking me mysteriously died. And when I went in front of the judge...

Chuck LaFLange (14:02.42)
Really?

Jamie Tall (14:05.478)
the judge told me that I was going to get put on a four-year felony probation. I had never gotten any kind of like charge, like big sticking charges before you know, and so he said that means that for the next four years you cannot fail a drug test and you cannot get in trouble or you're going to go to prison and something clicked in my brain at that moment and I realized that I didn't know

Chuck LaFLange (14:29.33)
Okay.

Chuck LaFLange (14:35.951)
Okay, okay.

Jamie Tall (14:36.614)
So I ended up going into a sober living facility.

Chuck LaFLange (14:41.403)
Okay, how was that for you? How was it? Was that scary? Was that what was it?

Jamie Tall (14:47.466)
Well, considering that it was on UGA campus, it was like a very strange to me. It was a big house with 13 other girls. And it was kind of like a sober sorority. But it was actually really comforting because for once, I wasn't alone.

Right? Like I had these other women and they were trying to do the same things that I wanted to do, which was be able to, you know, work a job and take care of myself and get my children back.

Chuck LaFLange (15:09.311)
Yep.

Jamie Tall (15:21.234)
and be a mom. And so it was like, you know, I didn't really know what to do. I knew I wanted to do something different, but I didn't know what that was or how to get there. And so basically, I just followed, you know, their suggestions, like they told me, you know, they had to teach me how to relive normal life, you know, like, you have to take a shower, you have to make your bed, you have to get a job and you can't wear that.

Chuck LaFLange (15:50.441)
Hahaha

Jamie Tall (15:51.338)
teaching me, you know, just how to be like self-sufficient and build healthy relationships. And I had so much trauma, I could barely even speak when I got to the sober living. I mean, it was...

I was so, had so much mental health challenges. I thought that like, it was like a setup. Like these were actors in a play or in a movie and my family had hired them. And I just, I just didn't believe it. You know, I remember going to my first meeting and this guy walked by and said he had like 87 days sober. And I was like, yeah, right. Like, who does that? Like, what does that look like? That's crazy. Why are you smiling?

Chuck LaFLange (16:29.023)
Ha ha ha!

Jamie Tall (16:33.674)
Like, it just didn't make sense to me.

Chuck LaFLange (16:34.799)
kidding wow hey wow and you're sober at this point so that's not the drugs that's the mental health that's making you think that way right so that's crazy literally and figuratively can I say that shit I'm gonna get cancelled again so

Jamie Tall (16:46.486)
Mm-hmm.

Jamie Tall (16:54.537)
Hehehehe.

Chuck LaFLange (17:01.675)
A, living in a house with 13 other women after your most recent experiences. Well, I guess one of your most recent experiences would have been in jail, so you would have been around a whole bunch of women. But prior to that, how like that must have been cultural shock, like in just the biggest way. Right. For me, it sounds terrifying and confusing being around 13 women at the same time. But for you, it must have just been, well, it must have been the same, but for different reasons. Right. You know, right. So. Go ahead.

Jamie Tall (17:28.598)
Well, the coolest thing about it was that, you know, I was in this house and I had a bed, right? And it was a twin size bed, but it was mine. And it was safe and nobody was gonna touch me and nothing was gonna happen to me. I had half a dresser that I could put my clothes in. I had half of a closet. I had a, there was a kitchen with food in it. I didn't have to worry about if I was gonna eat or not eat. You know, there was a bathroom with a shower there. And it was really just like

safe. It was so safe and I felt protected. It was a pretty big campus. So there was probably in all, I believe there was around 60 women and then around the block there was about 80 or 90 men.

Chuck LaFLange (18:03.171)
Oh, that's nice.

Chuck LaFLange (18:16.055)
Oh wow, okay, and everybody living sober and doing the thing, right? So, okay, that's interesting. A parallel there for myself, when I finally had enough, we're gonna do my story, but when I finally had enough and I text my mother and she came and got me and they took me back to the town that they're living in, they had this apartment set up for me with nothing in it, but it was safe.

Jamie Tall (18:21.814)
Mm-hmm.

Chuck LaFLange (18:41.947)
And for me, I remember thinking, I am warm, I am safe, I'm okay. And it didn't matter that there was literally nothing but a mattress on the floor, right? Like nothing. And it was, but that, that feeling of safety was just so welcome. And I think it's for someone with your history and your circumstance, being a woman, I can't even imagine how that hits you. Right? So it's very different feeling for me, but maybe not different, different level of, of it for sure. Um.

That makes my heart happy to know that you're able to experience safety like that. That's really awesome. Really awesome. So your recovery journey. So now you're in a place, you're safe, you're warm, you're surrounded by other people who are of the same mind. Was it... Is that your sober date or do you have a lap somewhere in between?

Jamie Tall (19:31.682)
July 20th, 2015.

Chuck LaFLange (19:35.147)
Congratulations on that. And you've been doing the thing ever since. Is that accurate? Good for you, good for you, good for you, right? Tell me a bit about your progression into sobriety, well not, yeah, sobriety and then recovery. Because to me they're two very different things, and I've recently, relatively speaking, kind of made that realization that there's two very different things, sobriety and recovery. So why don't you talk to us about that a bit, Jamie.

Jamie Tall (19:39.95)
Mm-hmm. Yes.

Jamie Tall (20:04.77)
So it took me for about 30 days to realize that I was the problem. So for the first 29 days it was everybody else, you know? And then I had realized at day 30 that, oh wait, I am the one who did this to myself. Like I'm the one who made a shit show out of my life. And so I started...

Chuck LaFLange (20:13.475)
Okay, okay.

Jamie Tall (20:32.938)
you know, I started sharing in meetings and I realized that when I shared stuff, and we had like two house meetings and then we would have to go to three other outside meetings. And I realized, no, in a week. Yes, in a week. And we had a time, you know, time, we had, it was very structured, you know, we had to sign in, we had to sign out.

Chuck LaFLange (20:46.717)
in a day?

Chuck LaFLange (20:50.46)
Oh, okay, okay.

Jamie Tall (21:00.346)
We had to always be accounted for. We had curfews. And you only, so they had like progressions of the houses. So the first house that I was in, I think I was there for probably 90 days, that first house with 13 girls. And so I was in there for the first 90 days and I was working at IHOP as a waitress.

And I started, you know, working the 12 steps and sharing in meetings. And what I found when I started sharing was that number one, like people would come up to me and say, thank you for sharing that. Like that really resonated with me. That really helped me. I completely understand that. And I began to be able to actually like have conversations again, to like look people in the eye and started doing this step work. And it was somewhere between step two and

which is somewhere between 30 and 60 days that the obsession was lifted. So I was no longer freaking out every time I had to go into the bathroom being triggered, right? It was like all of a sudden like, oh I'm I haven't thought about getting high in you know a couple hours or like a day, you know? Just the thought didn't really come to me anymore.

Chuck LaFLange (22:07.936)
Yep, yep.

Jamie Tall (22:21.294)
I got really involved in meetings at 89 Days Sober. I started telling my story in the crisis intervention unit, actually, which I had been in twice. So that was really cool to be able to go back there and be like, hey, I was where you were. And you know, now I have 89 Days Sober and you can do this. And it was like seeing the lights come on in their eyes. You know, I got really involved in the first that worked.

Chuck LaFLange (22:46.708)
You

Jamie Tall (22:50.928)
AA Steps, just really involved Steps home group, chaired meetings, did you know the HI where you go into like hospitals and institutions, just really like put everything into my recovery and also was working with a counselor who was a pastor and so I started a

Jamie Tall (23:20.914)
So faith is like a huge part of my story. And so, you know, getting baptized and, you know, there were some things I really had to let go of too, you know, I mean, because even in the beginning, I was still kind of holding on to those old things, right? Like I got this boyfriend and...

Chuck LaFLange (23:25.811)
Yeah.

Jamie Tall (23:47.638)
boyfriend air quotations, right? Like, give me money to help me pay rent at the sober living, give me rides. And you know, one day this girl overheard me in a conversation for this boyfriend to give me a ride. And she just looked at me and she said, you know, says you don't have to do that. I'll give you a ride. And I was just like, mind blown. Like, wow.

Chuck LaFLange (24:11.612)
Oh.

Jamie Tall (24:16.166)
Okay, and so this lady, she would give me rides to work. She was in my house. And then I ended up moving into this step up house where there was, it was like a two bedroom house. So there was two girls in each room. So there was only four of us. And I stayed in that house for like, probably, let's see.

probably six months I stayed in that house. And then I was able to move into a different apartment where it was just me and that one lady. And at that time I had, was starting to work toward getting my massage license and starting my business. So that was like a huge thing for me. So I actually stayed at the Sober Living for three and a half years.

Chuck LaFLange (24:43.42)
Okay.

Chuck LaFLange (25:01.163)
Okay.

Chuck LaFLange (25:10.993)
Okay.

Jamie Tall (25:11.894)
and just like threw myself into recovery sponsoring women.

I mean, I would have so many women that I was working with and it was just gave me like so much purpose, you know, there was a lot of hard things I had to go through too. At 90 days sober, my mom took custody of my children and I tried to fight her for it. But because I was living in a sober living, that means basically, legally that you're homeless.

So I was not able to get custody. There was a huge financial difference between me and my mother. And so she was better able to take care of them than I was. And so by the time I did get out of sober living, move out of the sober living, which actually I only moved like five driveways down.

Chuck LaFLange (25:52.522)
Yeah.

Jamie Tall (26:09.766)
into these townhouses where all the staff lived from the sober living. And I moved into these townhouses and I actually still live there. That's actually where I still live is in these townhouses.

Chuck LaFLange (26:10.165)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (26:14.647)
Okay.

Chuck LaFLange (26:22.131)
Wow. Okay.

Jamie Tall (26:24.37)
Yeah, so I mean, I actually became president of the board of directors of that sober living and um

Chuck LaFLange (26:30.185)
Really?

Jamie Tall (26:31.998)
Mm-hmm and became I teach classes over there certified recovery coach certified MRT teacher and so I was teaching classes over there. Yes moral Reconation therapy. It's a system. They use really and in the prisons, but we do it here in the sober living also it's like a whole like it's a Kind of a 12 step ish program but different very different goes like basically

Chuck LaFLange (26:41.978)
MRT.

Chuck LaFLange (26:54.769)
Okay.

Chuck LaFLange (27:01.008)
Okay.

Jamie Tall (27:02.152)
retract your thinking. So that was really cool. Just just staying involved. I mean, staying involved was the biggest thing for me, you know. And you know, pouring into myself like I took this 18 months. This is people thought I was just they didn't understand me at all. I took when I was 18 months sober.

I took an 18 month period where I decided I was just going to pour into myself. Because I had finally found this girl who was worth pouring into. And I took 18 months and I literally worked on building my business. I became a recovery coach with Georgia Council on Substance Abuse. I started a YouTube channel. I you know.

Chuck LaFLange (27:30.493)
Okay.

Jamie Tall (27:51.494)
just became this like self-sufficient independent woman. So in this 18 months there was no dating, there was no like going out like it was like a very intentional I am going to work on me and my life just changed.

Chuck LaFLange (28:08.415)
So, was it, did you say 18 months or did it work out to be 18 months? Like it was, did you say I'm gonna do this for 18 or did that, that's that kind of the way it played out?

Jamie Tall (28:19.106)
So I was working at a 12-step program and I have this sponsor and she kept telling me about, no dating till we finish the steps, no dating till we finish the steps. And I kind of kept bucking on her and giving her pushback and all this. And one day I...

Chuck LaFLange (28:30.527)
Thanks for watching!

Jamie Tall (28:39.006)
I was dating this guy, you know, I had 18 months and he had like six months or something, but his dad was a pastor and we had the same beliefs and I was like, this is the guy, you know, and then after a couple weeks, I was like, nah, this isn't the guy. And I broke up with him and he left the sober living. And I realized at that moment like...

Chuck LaFLange (28:56.244)
Hahaha.

Chuck LaFLange (29:04.245)
Really?

Jamie Tall (29:07.438)
man, I don't want to have anybody's blood on my hands. You know, I don't want to be responsible for anybody. Not like it was my choice, right? But I mean, I just realized at that moment that people in recovery are very fragile. And like, we really have to be careful in how we're handling them.

Chuck LaFLange (29:12.371)
No way.

Jamie Tall (29:32.006)
So, and you know, loving people more than our own selfish wants and desires, right? So that was kind of what kicked it off and she was like, okay, are you ready now? I was like, all right, I'll do it your way. And so we went through the, through the steps and after

Chuck LaFLange (29:32.072)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (29:39.195)
Yes.

Chuck LaFLange (29:45.956)
Hehehehehehe. Hehehehehehehehe.

Jamie Tall (29:54.846)
It didn't take me 18 months to go through the steps, but things had gotten so good as I was going through them and really focusing on me and my steps and putting the energy I was putting into chasing boys, into chasing my children and building relationship with them and building my business and all of these things. It was just, it was the best thing that I had ever done for myself.

Chuck LaFLange (30:21.939)
That's awesome. That's awesome. And were you accused of being selfish in that time, or were the people that you surrounded yourself in aware enough to know that it was a good thing for you to be doing that?

Jamie Tall (30:23.55)
So, yeah.

Jamie Tall (30:37.79)
It was a very lonely time because everybody else is going out and doing things and being social and going to events and I'm sitting at home reading my Bible and making marketing plans for my business and doing accounting paperwork. But I...

Honestly, like not that like money is like anything right but that first year of my massage therapy business I made six figures and I was homeless before then so It was like a pretty big accomplishment

Chuck LaFLange (31:10.987)
Oh, so is it now that right there, I wanna talk about that and that feeling that goes with that. So, and I'm already getting emotional talk thinking about this. We have an episode, every Wednesday I do an episode with a therapist, Ryan Baffgate, who was a childhood friend of mine. We parted ways for like 30 years, just circumstances life happened.

We reconnected over the show, and for the last nine months or so, we've been working together. Keeping in mind, my sober date is October 21st. Oh my God, look at that, it's 14 months. So the last, like, I wasn't sober for that long when we started the show and when we started working together. And he has, in those months, he's had this huge impact on me. But the other day, last week, we did an episode where...

Of course, I had just moved to Krabi, Thailand from Phuket. Like I've just moved into my own place, as you're well aware, right? I'm my very first place in years. So there's that feeling, you know, that. And I'm on my scooter, it's five o'clock in the morning. I just made a run to 7-Eleven, just like before we started recording. And I'm on the way back. I'm like, oh, my God, this is freedom. In a way, it was it was it was freedom like I never experienced before. Right here I am in Thailand.

on my fucking scooter, you know, feeling the breeze and all the things and really practicing some mindfulness in that moment too about everything that was going on around me. And so shortly after that I was recording with Ryan and he said, no, think about that. And you've talked about all of this, making your bed when you first get to that sober living, right, those micro movements, that feeling of accomplishment, your self-esteem goes up just for a little bit.

But you do that every day and that starts to really add up. Those little things, the micro movements, right? And he's like, listen, you've been working your ass off on the show for this long, you know, you've made the connection through this, you did this outside of my awareness. All of these things are coming together because of these little things that I'm doing for myself. And then one day you're like, look at this, look at this. I'm experiencing freedom.

Chuck LaFLange (33:29.907)
whether it's six figures in your first year, whether it's a move to Thailand, whether it's whatever that means for the individual, how's that feeling for you? Like how did that, when you looked back, because I can only guess, I can't put myself in your shoes, but I can relate enough to say that you probably had at least a moment somewhere where it all hit you. And you went, fuck, right? Like here I am. Did you have one of those moments, and can you describe that?

Jamie Tall (33:58.006)
Absolutely. It was a true feeling of freedom because you have to understand that with my background I was constantly dependent on pleasing a man and I'm not a I'm not a feminist here, okay? But with my understanding with the background that I came from it my you know My life was dependent on pleasing a man in order to survive

Chuck LaFLange (34:12.578)
Hahaha

Jamie Tall (34:26.118)
So for the first time in my life, I was able to survive, not just survive, but thrive on my own with just me and God. No, man, just me and God. And got my first car. And, you know, um, it was just, it was just incredible. And I didn't.

Chuck LaFLange (34:39.859)
Wow. Right.

Chuck LaFLange (34:47.251)
So when you get into your first car, when you sit in that car, does it hit you like that? Do you go, oh my god, like, this is happening right now? Do you have those moments on those little big victories? Right? Yeah. All right.

Jamie Tall (34:52.947)
Mm-hmm.

Jamie Tall (34:58.742)
Yes, absolutely. I mean, that was huge. I had a 480 credit score. So I mean...

Chuck LaFLange (35:06.995)
Hahaha!

Jamie Tall (35:11.862)
to do that was just, I mean, I worked hard for that. I worked really hard like paying back past debt and getting a secured credit card to use it, to build my credit and all this. And then, you know, with the car making like double payments to build my credit even more. And it was just like a very intentional thing to build this life. I mean, and now, like even now looking, you know,

going through a divorce and you know not my choice that I'm here by myself okay but um haven't skipped a beat

haven't missed a lash appointment, haven't missed a nail appointment. You know what I'm saying? Paying the rent, paying the car, paying the health insurance, right? You know what I'm saying? Like, whatever the enemy tries to throw at me, like God has rooted me in this place where I have like full trust that I'm gonna be okay.

Chuck LaFLange (36:01.747)
Hahaha

Chuck LaFLange (36:08.159)
Yep.

Chuck LaFLange (36:20.659)
That's wonderful. I love hearing that. I really do. I do. Okay, so back to that feeling of, those micro movements. And I think that, here's the thing. There's, I don't know if you and I have had this exact conversation, because I've been saying it a lot lately, about the fence in recovery. Have we had that talk about this metaphoric fence? I don't think so. At one point, you're on the addiction side of it.

Jamie Tall (36:48.17)
I don't think so.

Chuck LaFLange (36:49.003)
And one day you're on the recovery side of it. So one day you're nodding and smiling, saying, I know, but you really don't know. Right. And people are saying all these, why sings to you? And you're like, oh, I know, I know. Right. And then one day it's like, aha, it all starts to make sense to you. The perfect example for me living in your values. Right. Living it. Oh, I know, I know, I know. Hmm. Do you, do you though?

Jamie Tall (36:54.431)
Mm-hmm.

Chuck LaFLange (37:15.187)
For instance, we talked about the whole sex thing. So for me, it's about, hey, I need to hang on. That's one of the things that I really need to stay on track with because if I don't, I go out of rhythm and then I put some out of rhythm. All of those things, I nodded and smiled at until recently when I crossed over to the recovery side of this metaphoric fence. When recovery came about, it started to be about not so much staying sober but living a fulfilled life. Am I making sense or am I rambling here? I'm kind of.

I tend to ramble sometimes. ADHD, right? OK, yeah.

Jamie Tall (37:45.022)
Mm-hmm. No, absolutely. Yeah, like all of the things All of the things that like I used to live in right which is like lying cheating stealing manipulating right like I

didn't have like, like those things weren't okay anymore. Like something inside of me changed. And it was like, no, you can't steal that wallet that person left at your table when you were waiting saying that's wrong. You know, like, no, you can't steal this person's credit card information. That's not okay. That would...

Chuck LaFLange (38:17.214)
Hahaha

Jamie Tall (38:25.814)
that would grieve me, you know what I mean? Like that would make me feel bad. You can't talk about this person like that. Like that's not right, you know? So something, mm-hmm, littering. I went through a littering thing like.

Chuck LaFLange (38:34.375)
Yeah, even the little things, right? The little things. Yeah, there's the big ones. You can't lie and steal and cheat, but. Ha ha ha.

Jamie Tall (38:42.782)
Yeah, like this whole, like, I would get so convicted over littering. And it was like, I was like, oh, it was just like processes that, uh, and I would, I used to be the girl going down the highway, throwing everything out of her car. You know? So just everything changing, just something inside of me, like a different spirit inside of me that was like.

Chuck LaFLange (38:52.123)
Hahaha

Chuck LaFLange (38:58.561)
Hahaha

Chuck LaFLange (39:04.041)
Yeah.

Jamie Tall (39:09.234)
Mm-hmm. This is the right way and this is the way you're gonna walk in it, you know and Yeah, and you know the sex thing too like that's a you know, that was really hard I took like a three and a half year taboo Where I didn't uh, you know participate because when I did it made me feel bad and it kind of like

Chuck LaFLange (39:24.649)
Yeah, yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (39:31.247)
Yeah, I see. Yeah, you know what I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah, right.

Jamie Tall (39:34.502)
Yeah, it kind of triggered those things. Plus, you know that they're going to be like addicted and calling me after. You don't want to break anybody's heart. No, no, but really, you know.

Chuck LaFLange (39:42.878)
hahahaha

Chuck LaFLange (39:52.467)
Yeah, my attention. We did enough of that on the games nights. Okay, okay, okay. Not going to keep doing that. I got weird. Yeah. So, um, content creation, when's that happen? When do you start the page? When does, when does all that begin for you and how, right? Talk about that.

Jamie Tall (40:14.122)
So that happened in 2020 during COVID. Basically everything shut down. I was having an identity crisis at that time because at the time I had like a lot of roles. I was a recovery coach working at a nonprofit that helped women coming out of prostitution and human trafficking.

I had my own massage therapy business. I was involved in meetings and stuff. And then all of a sudden, there was nothing.

There was the nonprofit had to shut down. The meeting shut down. They shut my massage therapy business down. And I was like, I don't know who I am. Like I am struggling. I'm not Jamie the massage therapist. I'm not Jamie the recovery coach. I'm not Jamie cheering the meetings. Like who am I? You know, and I started talking about it. Just doing these little Facebook.

lives on my phone, like Facebook live, just making videos talking about like trying to encourage people because I knew if I was struggling and I have a

firm foundation in my faith. And so if I'm struggling with my firm foundation, I can imagine people who are in early recovery or who don't have that kind of foundation. So I started speaking out about it and the messages and responses that I started getting were so incredibly overwhelming. People across the world messaging me like I was gonna relapse today, but I saw your video.

Jamie Tall (42:00.002)
I'm feeling the same exact way. I wanted to kill myself and I saw your video. I mean, it was just so impactful. And I thought like, well, I need to keep doing this. I need to keep talking and...

Chuck LaFLange (42:05.675)
Oof.

Chuck LaFLange (42:12.871)
you too.

Jamie Tall (42:14.186)
keep people, you know, like keep spreading a message of hope and encouragement. And God was giving me like a lot of revelations thanks. It was a lot of time, just me and God, you know, and he was really like, just teaching me like a lot of things about like trust and faith and

Chuck LaFLange (42:26.684)
Yeah.

Jamie Tall (42:33.098)
Different things and I would just like share them. I would do like my morning devotionals online and little talks You know about different things step talks, whatever Whatever it was and that's kind of how it started

Chuck LaFLange (42:50.303)
awesome, that's awesome. And now, I mean, I'll stroke your ego for a second, unless you're kind of a big deal that way in the content creation world, you know. Yeah, you are, actually. I feel like just honored to be in the company of yourself and Sonya and all of them now, right? It's enlightening for me, to say the least, right? Enlightening, definitely enlightening.

and inspiring too, right? Like I've been at it now for a year. And I was making so many mistakes before running into y'all. And now, you know, I've been getting tips coming at me like a barrage and it's wonderful. I take, like I listen to you and I overthink them and then, you know, I do all the things, right? So somebody will send me a message about something and I might not even reply, but I've read it and I'll think about it, like obsess about it for a day or so and then, you know, figure out what it really meant and then get back to them about it.

Because I'm trying to process all of these wonderful tips that you guys are giving me and you know How lucky I am to be a part of that community now is it's pretty cool. That's pretty cool Right and a the fun we get to have right? Alright that like that games night was that was epic I just I had the absolute best time doing that and I'm just like I'm just I'll tell you what Loki every day. I'm like I'm gonna get another invite to a game

Jamie Tall (43:57.014)
It is a pretty cool. Yeah.

Jamie Tall (44:11.946)
Hey, we need to set it up.

Chuck LaFLange (44:18.315)
There are some insecurities there, and I won't say other names in this one particularly, but talking to some other content creators, there's some insecurity when you're around all you big guys, right? And it's like, you just kind of wait for the invite. It's hard to put yourself out there because, you know what I mean? And I know better than that. I do, rationally, but irrationally, there's always that part of us that feels like, you know, right? So, wow, I've never actually said that out loud before. Right?

Jamie Tall (44:44.25)
I've never turned anybody down for a collaboration. You know, or like alive, you know what I mean? Never.

Chuck LaFLange (44:49.575)
And I've never turned anybody down for no okay. Which you see and that's wonderful. So the Black Ash Radio, right? Which of course if you know, that started with Jared and I talking about it and we're both kind of like we're in our growth phase right now in a big way. Jared and I are almost bang on. So for anybody that's paying attention and has a Black Ash Radio, Friday night.

Jamie Tall (45:01.525)
Mm-hmm.

Chuck LaFLange (45:16.903)
9 p.m. Eastman Standard, 6 p.m. Pacific Standard. We bring on two other content creators, one that's bigger than us and one that's smaller than us. The idea being, the one that's smaller than us, keep it the values of recovery. Hey, let's give you a break. Maybe you don't have to grind quite the same way we've had to, you know, because it sucks sometimes. It's like, and it can really be a grind trying to get that brand out there. But if their message is right, why wouldn't you bring them up?

Right? And competition happens at the bottom, collaboration happens at the top. Right? So, you know, you guys coming on and us all streaming to our audiences and sharing, and to me that's recovery. You know, that's the values just held true, right? And I think it's wonderful that you've never turned down a collaboration or, you know, right? So, I mean, I have yet to myself either. I suppose it would have to be a message that I wasn't comfortable with, right? And there is some of those out there, you know, to say the least, but right.

Jamie Tall (46:10.6)
Mm-hmm.

Chuck LaFLange (46:15.259)
I think if somebody's going to the trouble to make a recovery platform, usually, and I've come across a couple, I'm sure you have too, where maybe ego's a bigger part of than the message is. But for the most part, I think the vast majority of content creators are in it for the right reason. Right, and that's to spread a message, right? I mean, of course there's a couple that are, you know, kind of go against the grain that way, but, you know.

Jamie Tall (46:33.388)
Mm-hmm.

Jamie Tall (46:45.236)
Yeah, and I mean I you know I was blessed I will say that you know Actually how I how I had met my husband was because he was a YouTube content creator And he was doing recovery messaging and he did this video He actually put a comment on

I was doing a post on purity and why you shouldn't sleep with people in your first year of recovery. And he commented on my post and dropped a link for this video and it was 13 step in. And I was like, oh, who is this? Who is this? You know, and so offended. And when...

Chuck LaFLange (47:26.283)
Oh, yeah. Sorry, I gotta take some notes here right now. Okay, okay.

Jamie Tall (47:37.846)
And when I clicked on it, he was very humorous and spoke out very boldly about recovery. And really he had the same message as me, but his was just in more of like a humorous sense, you know? And so I shared the video because I knew some of my friends would like it because they're, you know. So, and that is how he and I ended up.

talking and eventually meeting, because he lived in Florida, I lived in Georgia.

He actually helped me create my YouTube channel. And I started a show called Recovery Inspired Hope, which was just a local show. So it was spotlighting different pathways of recovery in the city of Athens, and grew to spotlighting nonprofits or allies in recovery. And I would just like call people and just be like, hey, I wanna spotlight your nonprofit on my show because I think you're doing such amazing things, and nobody turned you down.

for that, right? It's free marketing, free press, right? So it was, it really wasn't hard. And I had, I knew so many people in the community from doing so much work, you know, here, it was just, and then it just grew, you know? And then I made my TikTok series. That was kind of, that was like an accidental blow up.

Chuck LaFLange (48:42.26)
Nope.

Jamie Tall (49:05.662)
I made this TikTok series and it was called Diary of a Drug Addict and I had no following on TikTok. I mean none. TikTok was my platform that I used to process and express myself. Like I took very traumatic events and spoke about them in a humorous way because there were things I've never been able to tell anybody before but I was like able to put them out there as like a

Chuck LaFLange (49:06.507)
Okay.

Jamie Tall (49:34.956)
in like a joking, you know, way. Um, and my first video got like half a million views. And I was like, Oh, snap. Now everybody knows. I was like, that wasn't supposed to happen. So yeah. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (49:44.139)
Oh.

Chuck LaFLange (49:56.497)
But it obviously was supposed to happen.

Jamie Tall (50:00.842)
It was very unexpected. I was just like, oh my goodness, this is so embarrassing. But I made 48 episodes in that series and was able to help a lot of people. So.

Chuck LaFLange (50:11.73)
Okay.

Right, right, and that's, let's talk about that, the rewarding side of this whole thing. For us, very early on, our content started to steer towards the loved ones of people who suffer in addiction because I decided that people who are in active addiction, often, and you can't speak for everybody, are generalized too much, but often those people are too busy surviving and doing whatever they gotta do.

tuning into any sort of podcast on any sort of regular basis, probably not a thing. I know for me it certainly wasn't, you know, Christ, most of the time I didn't know what day it was. So, what I decided was that if we could help the families, then we could help the people suffering, right? If you can, and we'll talk about this. One of our messages, and you can tell me what you think about this, is breaking that generations old,

I'll say it, bullshit in my humble opinion, or not so humble opinion, about rock bottom and leaving people to hit rock bottom. And to me, and I'll just say what my opinion is on it, you can disagree or whatever, and waiting for rock bottom is waiting for them to die. That is the reality these days with the fentanyl showing up.

I don't believe in it. I have a really hard time with people that think that way and preach that way. So in my mind, helping families to understand that active or.

Chuck LaFLange (51:51.091)
Perceived lack of connection was the boot on my neck for the last two and a half years of addiction for me. Believing I wasn't loved, believing I wasn't lovable was what kept me in it. So our message is very much steered towards that. We get a ton of messages from mothers, brothers, fathers, and I'll always make time for them. And that's where my inspiration comes from most days. Yourself, speak about the inspiration about that particular.

vernacular if you want, wherever you want to run with this one, Jamie.

Jamie Tall (52:23.362)
So we fully believe, like we as a recovery community in the state of Georgia, fully believe that the opposite of addiction is connection. And what normally happens when somebody relapses in the traditional 12 step community is they say, okay, well you, here's $20, go try it again till you get it right and then you can come back.

right? So we pushed them away, right? But what if, what if we pulled them closer? What if we said, no, like, you're gonna, you're gonna stay with me. No, I'm gonna, we're gonna hang out, like, we're gonna hang out and I'm gonna, you know, spend time with you because you are worth it and you are loved. And, you know, this is, um.

you know, like loving them in ways, and even if they are still in active addiction, loving them in ways of saying, hey, can we get you some clean syringes? Can I get you a bottle of water so you're not using whatever, right? Like, I mean, loving them in, and there's so many different ways to love people who are in addiction, but yeah, absolutely pulling them closer instead of pushing them away because that was same as you. The reason that I stayed, you know,

trafficking situation I probably could have at least made an attempt to get out of it but where was I gonna go? Everybody was mad at me. Nobody liked me. Everybody hated me. I was disgusting. I was a shi- uh, you know, shameful. I was full of all these things. So you know, which was why it was so wonderful when I did get into that house with those 13 girls to not be alone anymore.

Chuck LaFLange (54:10.739)
Right, right. Yeah, that is so important. Just you saying that, I just, I wanna give that a minute because like you've got me emotional just the way you said it, Jamie. I think that's amazing. It really is. Too many people just don't get it. You know, I, somebody close to me in my life, I won't say you, recently was still making an argument about what addicts do to their families.

It's like, do you have any idea, like how, like, is that what you think? Do you think I was doing something to you? Right? I was out there trying to survive and nobody checked up on me. Right? Like, how does that, like, nobody for years, my mother turned that around in the end and I think I've told you about the you are loved message and how important it is to the show and why. But like, how, like, do you think that person is doing something to you? They're not. Their actions might...

Jamie Tall (54:50.859)
Right.

Chuck LaFLange (55:08.859)
affects you and you have to do things to mitigate that and I appreciate that but if you can start with a fundamental belief that the person who suffers an addiction is not doing anything to anybody else they are suffering an addiction and trying to survive if you can figure that out if we can help families understand that in my mind it's my best way to help the person suffering it's the best thing I can do you know giving my personality my skill set my whatever

especially in my current situation I'm in Thailand there's not much I can do for the individual as far as outreach goes but you know I can reach their families this way and that's what we try to do right feeling lovable

I hope you feel lovable now. I would think that you do. Right? How do you, how do you help somebody, because I know you're involved in outreach, talk about that and talk about how you help somebody get that mindset back, or they can be loved, if you can do that, if it's not putting you on the spot too much.

Jamie Tall (55:58.62)
Yes, I do.

Jamie Tall (56:18.078)
Um, so one of the biggest things that I do with people is called dismantling false beliefs. And so basically, you take and you list the things that you believe about yourself or that people have said to you, people have said about you, things that you know, the enemy has whispered in your ear, you know, and you write these things down and then you go back and you, you

break it down with the truth, you know?

Chuck LaFLange (56:51.724)
Cognitive behavioral therapy, that's what this is. Yeah.

Jamie Tall (56:54.95)
So some people get there, you can get it from many different places, the truth, you can get it from what people who really love you say, you can get it from what the Bible says about you, you can get it from the esteemable acts that you've done, which show that you are not this, and this, because you actually live in this, and this. So basically breaking down the false belief system.

um, so that you can see, you know, who you are and your value and your worth, because that is like the biggest thing, because when you don't believe you are worthy,

Chuck LaFLange (57:31.476)
Okay.

Jamie Tall (57:36.082)
and you are valued, then you will just settle for anything and anyone treating you anyway, and you won't go after the things that you want to go after your dreams, your desires, your passions, because you won't feel that you are worthy or you won't feel that you are good enough or you won't feel that you are like equipped enough to do those things. Right? So like

Chuck LaFLange (58:02.819)
Mm-hmm.

Jamie Tall (58:03.766)
being able to understand like your true identity and that you are more than enough exactly the way that you are in this moment.

Chuck LaFLange (58:13.087)
Oh, I love that. I really do. I do. Oh, you've warmed my heart, Jamie. You really do. Hey listen, if people want to know more about you, they can find you on Facebook, of course, under, if you want to give us your social names. I'll put all of this in the show notes and of course in your, oh I never sent you that link. You better do that to fill out your bio page. Oh no, you have done that for us, haven't you?

Jamie Tall (58:21.152)
Yes.

Chuck LaFLange (58:43.187)
You have done that, I think. You did, you did, you did, okay good. So there'll be a bio page attached to the website on our website, a2apodcast.com. But why don't you tell us, just for people that don't wanna take the effort to go to the website, where they can find you on social media and all that, before we get into the final segment.

Jamie Tall (58:43.754)
I think I did. Mm-hmm. I thought I did.

Jamie Tall (59:03.218)
You can find me at Jamie Tall on every platform. YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook. Only place you won't find me is OnlyFans. Anymore.

Chuck LaFLange (59:09.926)
I love the short answer.

Chuck LaFLange (59:20.452)
Anymore.

Chuck LaFLange (59:25.031)
You know what we should do? We should all start a recovery channel on Olink Vans, just to mess with people, right? Yeah. All right, have some sort of like racy intro video and then it just turns into a bunch of us sitting around talking about recovery, right? I think you need to recover, you dirty, dirty man, right? You know? We'll do some shame-based stuff just because we can't, because it doesn't work here, maybe it'll work there, I don't know, right? Wow, that escalated quickly.

Jamie Tall (59:30.887)
I know, right?

Jamie Tall (59:38.199)
Yeah.

Jamie Tall (59:41.922)
Hehehe

Jamie Tall (59:46.146)
Hehehe

Jamie Tall (59:50.755)
Maybe.

Chuck LaFLange (59:56.704)
Before we do our daily gratitudes, I'll ask you a couple questions. One, if you have a message to somebody who is struggling in early recovery, what would you say to them?

Jamie Tall (01:00:07.75)
tell them to not give up. I would tell them you have no idea what is in store for you. If you will just stay on this road in recovery, stay surrounded by people who are going to encourage you who are going to be on your team, who are going to uplift you and

you can literally achieve anything and everything that you want to just by staying on this road to recovery.

Chuck LaFLange (01:00:44.496)
Nice. To the bulk of our audience, the family members, the loved ones, the people who suffer, what would you say?

Jamie Tall (01:00:53.234)
I would tell them to keep praying and expect recovery. Always expect recovery. Envision them, like imagine them walking around with their kids smiling and laughing and playing outside and envision it. And don't ever stop expecting that that's gonna happen.

Chuck LaFLange (01:01:16.863)
That is the first time I have heard that message in any form, and I absolutely love it. Expect recovery. I love that, Jamie. I do. That is wonderful. Wow. All right. Brings us to my favorite part of the show. That's the Daily Gratitudes. What you got for us?

Jamie Tall (01:01:41.626)
I am grateful that I got my nails done today. I got a manicure and a pedicure today and some self care time. And I'm very grateful for that. And it's almost Christmas. Ha ha ha.

Chuck LaFLange (01:02:03.255)
That is, yeah it is. You know what, now that you mentioned that, that's something I never talked about. A couple weeks ago here in Thailand, when I was still at the Yatra Centre, at the treatment centre there, one of the other residents, she decided she was taking us for mani-pedis. So for the first time in my life, my gnarly ass feet, and my rough calloused hands and fingernails and all that, I experienced a mani-pedi for the first time ever. And it was pretty damn cool. So yeah.

I am thankful to the people that brought me my new dog, Sunny. You've seen some of the stuff on Facebook about him, I'm sure. We've got a sidecar coming this week, or next week, I guess. It'll be here hopefully Tuesday. So Sunny and I are going to be able to like check out Thailand together on the scooter and sidecar, and I am like...

pumped. I'm so thankful that those people came into my life and gave me this wonderful, wonderful dog. I'm not going to be alone on Christmas, right? Which is pretty damn cool, right? So yeah. I'm also very, very thankful to every single person who continues to watch, listen, and support. Like, comment, share, subscribe, hit the buttons wherever they are down there. I'm not, I never know where to point, so I just do this.

Jamie Tall (01:03:07.016)
Mm-hmm.

Chuck LaFLange (01:03:23.143)
Every time you do any one of these things, you're getting me a little bit closer to living my best life, and that is to continue making a humble living, spreading the message. The message is this. If you're in active addiction right now, today could be the day, today could be the day that you start a lifelong journey. Reach out to a friend, reach out to a family, and recalling the detox, go to a meeting. I don't really care what you gotta do. Just get that journey started, because it is so much better than the alternative. And if you have a loved one who's suffering an addiction right now.

Just taking the time to listen to this conversation, this amazing conversation. You just take one more minute out of your day, text that person, let them know they're loved, use the words.

Jamie Tall (01:04:02.262)
You are loved.

Chuck LaFLange (01:04:04.511)
That little glimmer of hope just might be the thing that brings them back.

Boom. Done. Yeah, 205.