248- CIARA BRADY FROM AARC

Chuck LaFLange (00:01.088)
Hello everybody, watchers, listeners, supporters of all kinds. Welcome to another episode of the Weekend Ramble on the Ashes Do Awesome podcast. I'm your host, Chuck LaFlange in Krabi, Thailand, halfway around the world in Calgary. Of course, this is my beautiful co -host, Dr. Lisa. How you doing today, Lisa?

Lisa (00:15.425)
Very good, Chris. I'm happy it's the weekend. I'm happy to be here. I'm good.

Chuck LaFLange (00:20.416)
 yes. Peek behind the curtain for everybody. This is actually the second episode we're recording right now. So it's like we've already had all this small talk. It feels kind of weird. What we haven't done though is add some small talk with our guests. And of course we have a couple of guests with us today. We have Ciara who's a community outreach person at AARC. And AARC stands for Ciara I'll let you say it.

Lisa (00:28.737)
No.

Ciara (00:44.832)
stands for the Alberta Adolescent Recovery Centre.

Chuck LaFLange (00:48.288)
There we go, perfect. I remembered it exactly. I was just giving you the honours of doing that and stuff. I did not, I'll be honest, I did not have the acronym down. And our fourth guest today, also in Calgary, so we have three Cow Town ladies with us, is Raynel, who's a graduate of the, of our parent graduate, I can't remember what we decided we were gonna say there already, right? Parent graduate of the Arc program. So. Hi.

Lisa (00:51.137)
Yeah.

Ciara (00:54.848)
Thank you.

Raynel (01:12.281)
Yes, hello.

Chuck LaFLange (01:19.264)
Karat, maybe if you just want to kick it off, what is ARK?

Ciara (01:24.128)
For sure. So the Alberta Adolescent Recovery Centre is a long -term treatment centre for youth between the age of 12 and 21 who are struggling with substance abuse or addiction and their impacted family members. So we provide long -term treatment for entire families. We are based in Calgary. It was founded 32 years ago.

Lisa (01:48.193)
you

Ciara (01:50.24)
in 1992. Yeah. So being around for quite some time. So as you mentioned earlier, I am the community outreach specialist for AARC, but I'm also a graduate mom who came through the program after a really long and intense battle with my son's mental health. And ultimately then his when the addiction took over, we found it very, very difficult to find next steps when the addiction became the

Chuck LaFLange (01:51.36)
Wow.

Ciara (02:20.288)
prominent concern and it was only when we almost lost him that we learned about the treatment services that AARC offered and it really is different than anything else we had tried before.

Chuck LaFLange (02:37.12)
It's interesting. You said so much there that I want to jump on. And I know Lisa's already probably chomping at the bit to say something to some of that. But before we do that though, Renell, can you just kind of give us an idea? So for yourself, we're not going to do the stories about, you know, we're not going to sit here and talk about the kids, about your sons and your daughters or whatever.

because that's not what we're here to do, really. But in your experience, can you just kind of give us your experience? When you reached out to AARC, how did you find AARC? When you reached out to AARC, what was kind of your experience with them? And kind of move forward from that point in your journey, if you could, right? Yeah.

Raynel (03:21.957)
Sure. So I heard about AARC through a friend of mine. So I'm originally from the Edmonton area and I contacted them after mulling it over. Of course, terrified at that point and quite desperate. I gave them a call and met for a pre -assessment, which was done.

and then brought my son to the treatment center and they did an assessment on him and it was determined that there was definitely a substance use disorder and he met the criterion we began our journey through AHRQ so relocating here and started family treatment so I was provided counseling.

My daughter was provided support as a sibling and we were in the program for 10 months and being utterly destroyed both myself, well my whole family really. AARC was an absolute saving grace for all of us. Very intense, however, unlike any other treatment that we had encountered.

Chuck LaFLange (04:35.488)
Yeah.

Raynel (04:48.901)
not for lack of people, you know, trying to help. However, you know, AARC, AARC delved into a lot of the the content, the situations, the feelings, emotions that was so necessary for all of us to heal. And it was it was by far the the absolute best thing. I kind of wish I would have done this in my 20s, not when I was 50, however.

Also living in around addiction as well. There's a history of addiction in my family. So I've never not lived a day not around addiction to some manner. So this was this was just some it was just such a gift.

Chuck LaFLange (05:18.784)
Right.

Chuck LaFLange (05:41.216)
No kidding. Of course you can.

Lisa (05:41.537)
Can I ask a question? Both Ciara and Raynel have made the comment that this was different than anything else they had tried. Can you maybe each tell us what, you know, Ciara, you have the perspective as the mom, but then also as someone who now works there. But what do you feel AHRQ does that's different than other programs?

Raynel (05:43.781)
Sure.

Ciara (06:04.192)
For sure and I don't think that's a very black and white answer because the answer is that there are so many unique components about the AARC program that make it different than any other treatment option that was available for us. I think the entire family treatment is...

key. I mean, like Raynel said, it is an intensive treatment program, but that's because everybody receives help. The families that come to AARC are broken, they're shattered, the kids themselves are shattered. They've tried many other options by the time they come through the doors at AARC. The AARC model is known, like we are known as the last house on the block for that reason. And

I think it just became so evident to me as I went through treatment and connected with a lot of these families, like that the strength of this community is is unreal. But as I connected with them, everybody had such a hard time finding that level of treatment, because at that point, the judgment and the shame takes over. And it's like there's there is no next step when it becomes so severe that you need to be.

navigating a system that doesn't have care for this severity of substance abuse. So there is a lot of things. I mean, there's initially there is peer support provided for the youth and our peer support team at AARC are all graduates. The majority of them are graduates of the AARC program themselves. So that connection initially for youth coming in and feeling so shattered is just it provides a piece of hope.

that I didn't see in any other treatment option that we had tried. And I could go on and on about the different unique components, which I will.

Chuck LaFLange (07:57.376)
I'm sure you could. I'm sure you will. Before you answer, Renell, for yourself, I want to zone in on something that you had said, and you've already touched base on it, Ciara, and of course, pre -recorded in our couple conversations leading up to today, you've talked about this, but, Renell, you had also said it. By the time you get there,

It's very obvious that there's that there's SUD. You've already tried all of these things. You're at a point where you're willing to relocate cities for this treatment. That's a that's a massive commitment, right? And I can only imagine. I can only begin to imagine. What gets you to that point? The struggle, the things that you've gone through, the shame and the guilt and all of the things that have to get you to that point. And. And just to lightly touch on something you said.

Lisa (08:28.225)
Mm -hmm.

Chuck LaFLange (08:50.72)
in the assessment, well, it was decided that he had an SUD. I feel like at that point, it's pretty obvious, the fact that you're at their door, the SUD. So I just found that kind of interesting. But why is it that they're the last house on the block? Why is it that it's so hard to find this service that's obviously been really helpful to you guys? And how did you find it right now? Maybe we'll start with that.

Raynel (08:59.269)
Mm -hmm.

Chuck LaFLange (09:18.784)
how did you find it, and then what was so different about it once you did find it. There, let's go with that.

Raynel (09:24.837)
Well, I think Ark was different, so it was long term, first of all. And I had the ability to provide compassionate intervention for my son at that point in time. He wasn't able to make the decision to keep himself safe anymore. I was not able to keep him safe either.

and being able to, and this is the thing, like you have all the components of this system and everybody wants to help. I think the difference with Ark is I was able to get him there and because he fit the criteria, he stayed there. It wasn't.

Lisa (10:19.809)
So do you mean it was like mandated like you were able as a parent to say you need to stay? Okay.

Raynel (10:22.309)
Similar, yes. Yes. So he met the criteria of substance use disorder, substance use disorder, and through the assessment, through the process of the intake, it was determined. So it didn't become a choice that he had.

to do the treatment. That was the absolute key thing for me because these kids get to a point where, I mean, to try and get them to do something voluntary, that's for any length of time, and certainly that wasn't in the city where we were from, you know, that wasn't gonna happen. As a terrified, destroyed parent, you know,

what else can I do? And you know, just to reiterate, you know, moving cities, I mean, I had I had nothing left. I was not working because I was on leave from my job. Relationships had been fallen by the wayside. I mean, it was my it was my son's life. So at that point, everything else kind of seemed irrelevant. We'll figure it out.

I don't know how, but if I don't do this, the alternative is God forbid I would lose him and I lost his dad. So the thought of having to go through that loss, it was really unimaginable. I couldn't do it.

Lisa (11:54.529)
Mm -hmm.

Lisa (12:14.113)
Here is our residential program. Do the adolescents reside there?

Ciara (12:20.384)
So it's semi -residential, which again is another unique component. So what happens is when a child goes into AARC, they stay with other families who are further along in the program, so further along in the process. So, and I guess the best way to explain this.

piece of the process is to step into my own story. So we went into treatment. My son stayed with other families who were further along in the program for the first two to three months until he had reached a certain level that he could be reintegrated back into our family system. And that that time was and it was so effective in many ways. It provided an opportunity for us as a family to.

and to have the time to start healing. It also provided an opportunity for my son to reintegrate into other family systems and to realize that, you know, there are rules in every family home. It wasn't just our own. And then on the flip side of that, it was incredible because as part of treatment, I and there's mandatory.

mandatory component for parents in the program. So we're there on Tuesday nights and we're there on Friday nights and all of that time in the program is spent with the other families. So you're building your community while you're in the program and as you're building that community you're connecting with these families who are keeping your child safe when you can't and that is an incredible bond to have. Like it was it was just unbelievable.

The feeling of not being able to keep your own kid safe is unreal. It's terrifying.

Lisa (14:07.937)
How does...

Lisa (14:13.377)
How is that logistically enforced though? Like what stops the kid from leaving the other home? What stops the kid from using in the other home? What, like I'm just curious how, because I just put myself back 20 years, that I don't know that that would have solved our issue. I think it would have just continued in someone else's house or like.

Ciara (14:33.568)
For sure. And that was, I understand, like I really understand the barriers to the recovery home piece because I am the parent that made the call and needed to know all of this information before my child went into treatment. So what happens is, and the big, big piece that I didn't understand about the recovery home process are that all of the kids are abstinent when they go into the recovery homes.

There's complete abstinence. They don't have access to their technology in any way. Our recovery homes are like there's meticulous planning and supervision around the recovery homes. They're accredited by the Canadian Accreditation Council. So training for the parents and training by like everyone in AARC. Then there's the 24 -7 support from the clinical counselors and the clinical team.

for parents. So when I had kids in my home, they would be at treatment all day and then at the end of the day, I would go up and pick up the kids that were staying in my home. We have a very clear guideline, a manual of guidelines about what happens when they're in the home. They're always sent home with some support, so they don't just come home on their own. So they have a level of peer support when they're in the home.

And then if there are any issues, I mean, we are talking about kids who have behavioural issues and there can be conflict and all of those things. There is the support from the clinical team to come out and support the family or, you know, there were times where we called the clinical team and they would step in and they would help, but relocating the kid that night if they weren't working out with the group that they were sent home with. So tons and...

tons of support around that piece.

Chuck LaFLange (16:31.808)
So, and it just, I think Lisa, you're probably gonna ask this question or wanted to anyway, but if a kid is just like, what is, can he just walk out of that home? Is there anything stopping him from doing that or is it a police involvement? Is it, what happens at that point, right? I'm curious.

Chuck LaFLange (16:55.168)
Kira, Kira, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ciara (16:55.36)
Sorry, okay, okay. So yeah, because they're sent home with that level of support, they're never alone in the home. So like the family themselves are in the home and their peer support person is there as well. So they are never left unsupervised.

Chuck LaFLange (17:08.128)
Okay.

Lisa (17:15.105)
What about when you're sleeping? And again, like, as I'm thinking about the kids I know, and they'd be like, wait for you to sleep and then out the door.

Ciara (17:22.304)
For sure. So they're they do sleep in the same room as their peer support person. So the host homes and the host bedrooms are set up in a particular way. The peer support person is, yeah, is there. The bedroom has to look a particular way so that the peer support is their bed is like placed in a way that the current client would need to literally step over them to.

Chuck LaFLange (17:22.368)
Right.

Chuck LaFLange (17:34.112)
Okay.

Ciara (17:52.288)
step out of the bedroom.

Chuck LaFLange (17:52.832)
wow. Okay, okay. So it's not jail, but it's, it's, you're pretty, you're not going anywhere without somebody knowing what's going on, right? So, okay, okay.

Raynel (17:54.053)
Thank you.

Raynel (17:59.205)
Thank you.

Lisa (18:01.533)
And I feel like, you know, like, I sort of feel like we're like going at you here a little bit. But at the same time, I know that for families who are listening, and I've been that family, it's like, these are the things you're thinking is like, but like, 2am, I just I'm out the door. Like, you know, so it's like just wanting to make sure that we're getting across to people like the logistics of how this program is implemented, because I think that

Raynel (18:01.797)
huh.

Ciara (18:02.048)
Yes.

Lisa (18:27.521)
from what you're describing, this is kind of part of the magic of this program, is in these details.

Ciara (18:32.)
Absolutely. Yeah, and no problem. And that's, I guess that's the benefit of...

Chuck LaFLange (18:34.688)
Yeah.

Raynel (18:34.949)
Thank you.

Ciara (18:38.08)
benefit of me being a graduate mom is that I've, you know, I've had to set up my own recovery home and I've, I've watched how well it works. And it really is like, while all of these components are being put in place, what's happening is they're building a community and they're like, it was such a therapeutic process for me to understand and watch the journey of these kids coming into my home, completely broken. And, you know, the gradual process.

10 months of them really wanting, they want something better and they are really willing to work even when they're in the homes. Like sometimes I'd have to say, okay look guys it's light out, lights out, like you know you've got to put your work away. But they really, it's, it was, it helped me as a parent understand what my son was struggling with.

Chuck LaFLange (19:23.076)
I'm sorry.

Chuck LaFLange (19:33.568)
If I can... Go ahead, Lisa. Go ahead. I know.

Lisa (19:33.665)
And how do you, so many questions. How do you, like how do you initially enforce it? And I don't know if it's enforce mandate, like I'm pro mandated treatment in all realms when it comes to addiction, but it's like, again, so like maybe for you right now, like how do you take an adolescent who's probably, if they're an active addiction, active serious addiction, there probably have been a lot of rule breaking, a lot of behavioral struggles.

Raynel (19:38.757)
Ahem.

Lisa (20:03.265)
Like, how do you say to them, no, you're going to go live in this stranger's house? Because again, I feel like I know people who would have been like, no, I'm not. So how, how is that made to happen?

Raynel (20:15.589)
Right, and you know it's a good point. You know I think first of all what was a benefit for me really is we didn't live in this city so when you talked about kids running I mean my son could run but where would he go? He didn't know, right? However it you know when you get there and they're you know...

they're in treatment, like Kira said, they're around all the other clients, the peer support. And, you know, this is the way it is. And there are certain rules that need to be followed. But it's not given from a parent's perspective. It's not given from, you know, I guess coming across as an authoritative way as opposed to...

this is what's going to happen. But with all of the constant peer support and it's not, you know, a newcomer and a newcomer. These are kids that are farther along in the program who they can connect with each other and they understand each other. They relate. They know where each other is. And that was the beauty of this program is you can't bullshit a bullshitter. So.

you know as a parent that was a huge relief because you know he's not he he couldn't he couldn't talk his way out of this and but the the difference is and like Kira said I mean these kids go into homes so they're in a family setting if there's animals in the in the home I mean that was a big plus it's it's very there's there's good structure to it so

Difficult at first? Absolutely. And all of them would want to run away, of course. Who wants to go into a situation like that? However, you immerse them in that kind of a setting, it's kind of amazing what happens. And it's the parents' involvement, the family's involvement, and just the peers.

Ciara (22:40.32)
I think also to just clarify if you don't mind, so the clients are in the treatment center for the majority of their time in treatment. It's just in the evenings that they go to the recovery homes. So during the day, they're involved in very, very intensive group therapy sessions, whether that be facilitated by one of our clinical directors, like.

Chuck LaFLange (22:44.576)
Of course.

Lisa (22:54.689)
Mm -hmm.

Chuck LaFLange (22:54.88)
Okay.

Lisa (23:00.385)
Mm -hmm.

Ciara (23:05.664)
behavioral therapist, clinical counselors, like there's, there are lots of different group.

therapy settings, but it's at the end of the day that they go to the homes. So it's really like it's a comfortable place to stay. Like for my son, he would have benefited hugely from the less institutionalized setting at the end of the day, like going home to a family setting with like a comfortable sofa and, you know, and their evening is it's it's pretty well planned out. Like they go home to the home to the homes.

Lisa (23:17.185)
Mm -hmm.

Ciara (23:42.258)
they have a snack, they have their shower routine and they go to bed. They wake up the next morning, the parent from the home drives them to treatment for eight o 'clock that morning and then you know they and so it continues. They attend their group therapy sessions. Every day looks a little different at AARC but for the most part the majority of their time is at the treatment center.

Lisa (24:06.529)
And how are they forced to stay?

Ciara (24:10.24)
So as part of the clinical assessment that happens at AARC, and it is a pretty intensive assessment, as you can imagine, for kids who are at that level and requiring that level of treatment. And that is, it definitely is a question more for our clinical team. But I know that they, as part of the assessment, there's like a mature minor assessment, which can determine whether they are kept at the centre.

And we chatted yesterday, Chris, that there may be a follow -up podcast with members of our clinical team who would be definitely, yeah, yeah, and better equipped to answer that question. Like my job is community outreach and really raising awareness for families to get to know about the program.

Chuck LaFLange (24:39.68)
Okay.

Chuck LaFLange (24:46.336)
Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, I think that would be a very powerful thing. Yeah. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (25:01.888)
I have a question for Ray Lenn, for Ray Nel, sorry, if you don't mind Lisa, if I can do that first. So for you, I want to talk about the feeling that goes in because a huge part of our listener base is, are the loved ones of people who suffer an addiction. We've catered to that since day one. So I want to ask you, how do they make you, like, you must have so many questions going into this, so many fears.

Lisa (25:05.953)
Hmm.

Chuck LaFLange (25:32.672)
How do you go from this feeling of desperation to, I'm going to trust you with my son's life or my family's well -being at the end of the day? How does that process happen for you to go from one to the next? How does it feel to know that somebody gives a shit, right? After being through, I mean, so many people in the field care, but.

Raynel (25:55.941)
Mm -hmm.

Chuck LaFLange (25:56.192)
good intentions, road to hell, all those things, right? How does it feel to know that somebody's gonna take this burden from you and work with you at the same time? I just, I really wanna talk about the feelings that might be involved there. I'm sorry if that question isn't asked great, but if you could speak to it the best you can, that'd be great, yeah.

Raynel (26:14.469)
No, absolutely. And as I'm listening to you ask that it brings up a lot to have that burden if you want to call it. But just for someone to say, you know, yes, we can help you. We can help you. We can help you. We can help your son. We can help your daughter. We can keep them safe. There's no guarantee. There's never a guarantee.

But for someone to actually say yes and no, that it wasn't a situation that would change in an hour, in a day, that was life changing for me.

Raynel (27:09.221)
and just a complete...

feeling of gratitude and really at that point being able to...

Raynel (27:27.109)
to put him in a place where he could get help and seeing the peers that had worked there that had gone through the program. I mean, I knew the little boy that I was fighting for was inside of my son. It was lost. But to have that such a strong belief as we all do.

Chuck LaFLange (27:39.776)
Hmm.

Raynel (27:56.509)
and have someone kind of take you by the hand and lead you into art and say, you know, we can help. It still gets to me because it's just words that we all, you know, are searching for when when addictions got its grips in someone you love. I mean, it's it's just such a helpless, hopeless kind of feeling.

Lisa (28:10.721)
Mm.

Chuck LaFLange (28:10.784)
I'm sure it does.

Lisa (28:22.817)
Mm -hmm.

Raynel (28:26.309)
So, to have that.

Chuck LaFLange (28:29.952)
If I can ask a follow -up that might not invoke the same kind of emotion, it might invoke some anger. I don't know. Who had, like you had heard no from, like, and I don't think that the first answer from anybody is gonna be no, but who is telling you no and how, why is it, why, like, why is this yes such a big deal, right? Like, why is it so profound that, like, what had you been through previous to that?

Raynel (28:55.365)
So.

Chuck LaFLange (28:59.584)
As far as help goes and asking for help, that had come up with nothing.

Raynel (29:05.413)
So when I say, you know, and it's not so much no as opposed to, well, it's not kind of something we're able to help you with. So for example, you know, going to the hospital, medically, he was okay. So that was the end of that option. Now, where do we go? So.

Chuck LaFLange (29:17.44)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (29:31.392)
I see Lisa shaking her head. This one's gonna be, that's gonna get her.

Raynel (29:35.429)
Right. And however, the thing is, and you know, if I may be so blunt is, I remember saying, well, when is mental health not part of a medical issue? Like, I, sorry, you want to talk anger? I was horrifically angry walking into the program. And again, it's not because people didn't want to help. And I'm talking...

Chuck LaFLange (29:46.208)
courts.

Chuck LaFLange (29:51.624)
Yeah, yeah.

Raynel (30:05.573)
you know, EMS, right? Whether it be ambulance, police, emergency, I mean, it didn't seem to matter because he, what I found was the issue was the continuity of care and, you know, God forbid, and it's not to down talk anything and it just brings up when Kira was talking about the stigma and the shame, I was told.

that someone better step up and start being a parent to this kid and that was me. I was told that by a health professional. I was told that, you know...

when I was concerned about safety for him and for me, the option was to bring him to a shelter. How the hell was I going to do that? He was 16 years old. And like it just, there was absolutely...

Chuck LaFLange (31:00.8)
Wow.

Raynel (31:05.541)
The thing is, is I started to believe this stuff. So I took this on and the exhaustion and not knowing what else to do. I mean, what else do we do? We do what's available and granted there was just not a place that we could go that, you know, he would be kept, he would be safe.

Lisa (31:22.273)
Mm -hmm.

Raynel (31:33.413)
we're going to provide treatment for all of you. That's what was needed. That's what was needed. And the key thing was, is it not being an option. None of us want to want to do this. Nobody wakes up and says, I want to have a substance use disorder. No parent wants to say, I want to put my child in long -term drug treatment. Who wants that? However, it's, you get so far beyond what you want.

Chuck LaFLange (31:57.152)
doing.

Raynel (32:01.509)
I mean, this is now life or death. And, you know, if something doesn't happen, you know, I ended up in all honesty, it just got to the point where, you know, it was ineffective to really bother to call anymore or to go to the hospital or, you know, because you knew exactly what was going to happen. And, you know, we had kind of been through it all. And, you know, to be.

Chuck LaFLange (32:19.584)
that's frustrating.

Chuck LaFLange (32:30.464)
Yeah.

Raynel (32:30.565)
told well be careful but you know if you need us we'll call us back like it just the frustration.

Chuck LaFLange (32:37.408)
If I can jump in on you there now, Lisa, go. So to anybody that's new to the platform, I should say Lisa is a psychiatrist and of course is very familiar with some of these conversations we've talked at length about some of this stuff. Not so much with kids though, so Lisa, have at her.

Lisa (32:49.021)
you

Raynel (32:53.957)
Mm -hmm.

Lisa (33:04.033)
Mm -hmm.

Lisa (33:08.065)
I honestly don't even know where to start. You know, I think, and we've talked a lot about this on the podcast, again, not specifically for kids, but to me, take everything we've spoken about in every other episode and just magnify it by a million. That's what I think of when I think of adolescents with substance use disorders, is that addiction is a mental illness. It is a disease of the brain. And

It can be measured. You can take somebody with addiction, put them in a functional MRI machine, and see impaired brain activity. Period. You know, like people love to debate this. We have people on the show who like to debate this. Won't name names. It is a disease of the brain. When you can look at brain activity in somebody with a substance use disorder and see impaired brain activity,

There's no debate. That's like saying, let's debate if the world is round or the world is flat. It's not a debate. It's a fact. We have a mental health act, yet somehow, and not just in Alberta, in the entire country, despite the fact that we can measure it, we know it is a disease of the brain, that it is in the diagnostic manual for mental illness, we still like to somehow treat addiction as special.

and we don't utilize our mental health act. We don't utilize certification under the mental health act for addiction the way that we do every other brain disease, every other mental illness. Why? Stigma. That's the only answer I have to that. You know, I heard something recently that from the time that something is.

determined scientifically, it takes like 20 years for us to start acting on it differently. And that's kind of, I think, what I feel like we see is that doctors will talk about the fact that it's a brain disease, yet we still continue to not treat it the way that we treat all the other mental illnesses. And I think that people don't necessarily even have great insight into the reasons for that.

Lisa (35:25.537)
You know, there's talk right now, for example, in Alberta, they're looking at coming out with a new act that will be specific to addiction that would allow us to certify, or essentially certify people because of their substance use disorders to mandate them into treatment. And while I think anything that moves towards being able to mandate, and again, not everybody, you know, I'm not talking about, we've said it on here before, I'm not talking about getting a bus and going around and picking up everybody that uses a substance and locking them up.

not in any way, shape or form. Just like there are plenty of people with schizophrenia who live out in the community who are not currently in the hospital under the Mental Health Act. But there are situations and there are cases in patients where I do believe we should be able to take the wheel and put them into treatment. So I think that anything that moves towards empowering us to do that is great. But I actually have a little bit of concern that by making a separate act to do it,

that it again takes away from the fact that it is another psychiatric illness and we don't need separate acts to be able to provide the necessary treatment. We have the acts, we simply need to use them.

But you know, to hear that you would go to the hospital and be told that there's nothing that can be done, to send your kid to a shelter, it's like, I don't know, it makes me disappointed and it makes me angry.

Chuck LaFLange (36:56.896)
Yeah, right.

Ciara (36:57.76)
Yeah, and if I can just comment on this as well, and that was that was really something that stood out from the last podcast that I listened to. It was that feeling of like, guess who's back here again? And that's how I felt as a mom. I was like, I literally have I've nowhere else to go. Like I'm turning up here in complete desperation for support. And.

Lisa (36:58.177)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (37:01.312)
Of course. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (37:12.128)
Yeah.

Ciara (37:24.)
And again, like Raynel said, there were a lot of people involved that wanted to help, but they simply didn't know. I truly believe that a lot of the people that were involved, like it was...

because they were involved through the mental health lens, it was like, it was a scary place for everyone who cared about us at that point to be like, we don't like you've reached the point where there is no next step. And that's why I feel passionate about raising awareness around the AARC program, because it did provide a next step in a way that I really never thought was possible. Like for us all to then be provided with support and to...

ultimately learn a different way of how to support this addiction journey. Like we all needed that. We were, you know, we were prioritizing the mental health. We were listening to the professionals. But when addiction came and really just sideswiped everything, it was like, what now? And that's a terrifying feeling as a mom.

Chuck LaFLange (38:26.784)
Yeah.

Lisa (38:30.369)
But again, what I find confusing, Kira, is that if you had gone in with an adolescent child who had schizophrenia, they would know what to do. So why is it different? It's only different, no, it's only different because historically the messaging has been that while we'll all say it's a disease, while we'll all say it's a mental illness,

Chuck LaFLange (38:40.032)
It's not different, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Lisa (38:53.185)
We somehow refuse to use the Mental Health Act and the tools within the Mental Health Act to support and treat people with addiction just like we would if they were showing up in a dangerous situation with their schizophrenia, their depression, their bipolar disorder, or any of those other things. So the system is there, but the common belief is that we can't use the system if it's addiction. Why?

Chuck LaFLange (39:23.679)
It's stigma, 100 percent, right?

Ciara (39:26.144)
Yeah, yeah.

Lisa (39:27.425)
And this still, and I think still also it's stigma. And I think part of that stigma is rooted in the fact that while we'll say it's a brain disease, I think there's still this deep rooted belief that it's a choice.

Chuck LaFLange (39:42.56)
Yeah, without a doubt there is, right? In the recovery communities, right? And I've talked about that often, right? It takes us a hundred years to legitimize it as a disease and yet still we have people talking about how it's a choice. However, I do want to get back to AARC because that's something Lisa, we're both very passionate about. I think you might be the only person in the world who's more passionate than I am about it.

And I don't want to set you loose too long on it at this one. So let's get back to Arc. So wow. Please do. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. Yeah.

Lisa (40:10.913)
Okay. Rain me in.

Lisa (40:19.329)
I have a question about AARC, if you don't have one ready. Can you talk here, and maybe again, you feel like there's other people that we could have come on who could talk about this stuff, but can you talk a little bit about what the criteria are? Like again, Raynel's kind of alluded to it, but what makes a kid a suitable candidate for AARC?

Chuck LaFLange (40:40.992)
in a general sense. And again, we're going to avoid specifics until we have, you know, rights. If you can speak to that. Yeah.

Lisa (40:42.689)
Yeah.

Ciara (40:48.096)
Yeah, for sure, for sure. And I mean...

You know, we get we get calls of all nature to to arc like when it when it hits this severe level. And I think to make to answer that in a more black and white way, the criteria is youth between the age of 12 to 21 who are struggling with substance use disorder. Despite those negative consequences and maybe for the most part have tried other.

treatment options and have not been successful for whatever reason. There is that mandatory family component as well. So the family must be willing to be part of the treatment and like not to go backwards, but I just like when you were chatting earlier, I didn't understand addiction as a parent. I was on the mental health journey. I didn't like when addiction took over that was

That was part of the reason where family treatment was very, very important for me because I needed to understand how it was affecting my son and how as a parent I could support that differently. So as hard as it is to step into full family treatment at that point, it is absolutely key to the success of this programme, even for that reason alone.

that you have an understanding and you understand that it's not a choice. And anyway, sorry, I feel like I'm going backwards, but that piece has been so important. Mm hmm.

Chuck LaFLange (42:21.184)
But you're not, but you're not, Ciara. This is, it is so important. It is so very, very important. We just had a conversation with Sydney over at FAR who speaks this very thing about getting families to understand, right? Of course that'll play next week. So, but we do, we talk very much about that, about how getting the families to understand what addiction is. And from the get -go, Ciara, I gotta say, this part, I decided very early on that.

Ciara (42:33.952)
Right.

Chuck LaFLange (42:50.496)
People who are in active addiction typically aren't tuning into a podcast. They're too busy trying to survive and trying to do whatever it is that the disease is making them do or those behaviors. But the families, you and Ray Lynn, you, you guys are desperately searching. And how many times have I said that exact same thing, Lisa? Desperately searching for resources all the time. And I gotta say, for you to sit here and talk about how AARC,

Lisa (43:10.689)
Yep.

Chuck LaFLange (43:17.728)
The family being involved is mandatory warms my heart 100%. The odds of success have to just, I can't imagine how much higher they are if the family's going to be involved in this, right? And like, God, that's just amazing. Yeah.

Lisa (43:21.729)
Mm.

Ciara (43:31.84)
For sure, yeah.

Lisa (43:34.369)
And I think, I think Chris, that there's the fact that yes, you're going to increase the chances of the client succeeding. But also being a sister, you know, like Raynel, you mentioned your daughter. You know, I was 22 years old when my family started on a similar journey. And for the most part, you, you know, and I, I never sat around going, but look at me, you know, I'm over here too.

But the amount of stuff that you deal with as a sibling, and again, I haven't been in the parent role, but I imagine it's even magnified. But as a sibling, like you sit there and your parents are trying to save your sibling. So unintentionally, you kind of get lost in that. But also as a sibling, you're terrified. You want to save your brother or sister. You're hopeless. You don't have the skills. You don't know what to do.

Like I always say, one of the things, you know, you go through this and there's these like little things that get said over the years that like really kind of burn themselves into your brain. And I remember being in a family meeting at a therapy center where, and again, my brother, to be honest, never played a victim. You know, he didn't blame us ever. But I remember him saying just in...

trying to make us realize how difficult the struggle was for him, saying to us, you know, you have no idea how hard this is. And I remember again, not in an angry way, but saying to him, and you have no idea how hard it is to be your sister. And again, just from that place of like, I would have stopped the world turning to save him, but I didn't know how. You know, so I think the fact that the families involved, not only are you helping,

the loved one suffering with the addiction succeed, but everybody's affected. And for the most part, the majority of attention goes to the person suffering, not the mom, not the dad, not the brother, not the sister, and it affects everybody's wellbeing.

Chuck LaFLange (45:44.896)
It really does. It really does.

Ciara (45:45.76)
Yeah, I think when you're walking through the doors of Ark, you are ultimately you're running on fear, which goes for everybody, like different levels of fear within the family. But it's it's just, you know, when you asked that question earlier. Absolutely. And that feeling of like, how did we get here and.

Chuck LaFLange (45:57.056)
It's a trauma response. You're in a constant state of trauma, right? Trauma response, yeah.

Raynel (45:58.917)
Okay.

Ciara (46:05.792)
How did we get to the point in our lives that we need long -term treatment for our son for addiction? It's a deer in headlights feeling and it's just, I guess for our family we had, well, the definition of insanity, right? We kept trying the same thing over and over again, nothing was changing. So to be offered this option of something different was just.

I mean, I wouldn't say I found the freedom initially because they're, like I said, driven by fear. But it was it was just like, wow, there's something happening here that I have not seen before. And that. Like I get why right now feels emotional about this, because. A glimmer of hope. When that's how you're feeling is just it's like, OK, OK, I think I'm going to dip my toe in here and.

My goodness am I glad I did because it changed so much.

Lisa (47:02.561)
Kiera, do you feel like you get people contacting you who are notified about you through the emergency departments?

Chuck LaFLange (47:03.392)
Hmm.

Ciara (47:14.112)
I'm not so sure that there are many contacts to the emergency department. That's my job right now though and I go back over our journey and like I said earlier there were so many people that I know would have shared this information had it been accessible. So I go back to providing information packs to the mental health units.

any of the programs that we would have been through. We were in different residential programs so just making sure that if there's a parent or a family that reach that point where they feel that they have no next step, there is. There is AARC and you know they are a very very outside the box thinking organization that will they will step in where others won't and that's that was what made the big difference for our family.

Raynel (48:08.101)
Thank you.

Chuck LaFLange (48:11.808)
That's incredible, right? I suppose at some point you and Lisa are going to have to meet face to face. You're both in Calgary. She's in that part of the... I'm kind of surprised that you haven't at least crossed paths with information, if not with in person, right? So, yeah.

Ciara (48:22.176)
That would be awesome. Come for a facility tour.

Raynel (48:23.525)
Mm -hmm.

Lisa (48:23.969)
I know.

Ciara (48:29.664)
I would love to welcome you to our Clisa.

Lisa (48:30.753)
But that's kind of why Chris, yeah, I asked that question is that to be honest, I have heard of AARC and that's about the extent of it. Really had no idea that you do what you're describing. Now, again, I don't work at the Children's Hospital, which is probably where it'd be even more prudent. But having said that, I mean, you go up to age 21, like I see,

I have plenty of kids at the hospital that I'm at. And I would have never given this information to a family because I didn't have it.

Ciara (49:09.088)
Yeah, 12 to 21. But just to clarify for the involuntary component that we mentioned earlier is for under 18. So between the age of 18 and 21, that would have to be a sign in. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, we were we were at pretty much every mental health unit and there was no information.

Lisa (49:10.721)
as a problem.

Lisa (49:22.337)
voluntary. Yeah. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (49:24.256)
Yeah. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (49:32.224)
Wow. Wow. And I suppose, well, like you said, that's why you jumped on board, right? So you're out there spreading the good word, as it were, right? And I think that's awesome that you took that on, right? So Lisa, do you got something else you want to jump into right now? I mean, I've got questions, but.

Ciara (49:40.48)
Yes.

Lisa (49:53.537)
No, I mean, I think for me, like taking away so far, right, is like, I love hearing about what you do. I love getting to see that you guys are both, you know, the graduate parents and because it speaks to the success of the program. And I think, like I said, just knowing that this is an option and even working in mental health as somebody who's very passionate about addiction, I didn't really know a lot about this program. And I think that that just

raises that question of how do we bridge that? How do we get people? Like I work in the emergency department at the Peter Law Heed. I didn't really know Arc did this, you know? It's like, I feel like trying to make sure, like whether that's having you guys come to a grand rounds to all the psychiatrists in the city, I don't know. But I feel like trying to get that message out, because as you said, like, I think there are so many people that could probably use your help. And obviously every program is going to have a limited capacity.

But then having been that sibling and listening to Raynel's story, it's like, there's a lot of people out there that would sleep better tonight just by knowing you exist with the idea that maybe you're somebody who could help their child. I think it would be really interesting to try to figure out how to get that information into the right hands to try to help more people.

Ciara (51:15.488)
That would be incredible and that's what I feel very passionate about. I would welcome the opportunity to provide a facility tour and that's really the best way to, because it's more visual too, to...

Chuck LaFLange (51:15.52)
100 percent.

Lisa (51:28.929)
Yeah.

Ciara (51:35.136)
and provide the context for all these unique components. And there are many, there are many of them that we haven't even stepped into today and reasons why AARC is different. But for sure, I mean, the driving force behind what I do is remembering that, you know, when I found out about AARC, my son was on life support from an overdose. And I think back, I am

beyond grateful for finding out about Ark. But why did it have to come to that? Why did it have to come to that? He's one of four boys. The impact of that journey on all of them. And that was that was he was on life support twice in two weeks before we heard about Ark. And I just think. He possibly could have been saved from some extra pain.

we as his loved ones could have been saved from some of that and that's really what drives me to, you know, if the thought of shortening that journey for some of the families who are currently going through that is, it's too important to be ignored.

Lisa (52:49.665)
And I know, right? And did your son, is he okay now?

Chuck LaFLange (52:50.08)
move.

Ciara (52:55.904)
Yes, he's okay. He's two and a half years sober now.

Lisa (52:59.681)
Amazing. It's amazing.

Chuck LaFLange (53:00.256)
Huh.

Ciara (53:01.92)
Yeah, and it took that level of, it took all of the different components of AARC and their...

like their care, their compassion, the relatability that he found in that program because he was constantly with people who had been on that journey. And that's the key.

Lisa (53:21.217)
And Kiera, for people listening who might be overwhelmed at the idea of having to also take in people into their home, because again, if you're active in this and you're, you know, you're dealing with the day to day and the struggle, the idea of having to take on other stuff can probably be really overwhelming. Is that something that you're expected to do from day one that your child enters the program, that you're also housing somebody else's child right away? Or when does that?

become an ask of you as a family.

Ciara (53:52.288)
And like I said earlier, I totally understand how overwhelming that is because I was the mum who made that call and thought, what, I can't even keep my own kids safe. Like, how am I going to take that on? So it's about three months into the program. And just to help with that.

overwhelming piece. And again, and right now you can speak to this as well. There is an incredible community of six over 660 graduate families from Arc and within that community because we're.

like we're bonded by the challenges of parenting through youth addiction. So there are so many parents that will, that's the first thing that happens when you call AARC is that you're provided with a list of phone numbers for parents who have been through treatment and encouraged to meet one of them for coffee and talk about.

Chuck LaFLange (54:30.432)
Thanks for watching.

Ciara (54:45.152)
the ins and outs of what's involved in stepping into a program like this. And our like our parents are very, very well, it is a program of honesty. So, you know, they're very, very honest. We're very, very vulnerable with our stories for that very reason to, you know, yes, it's intense. We would never, ever say to somebody, it's fine. It's just 10 months. Like we're we're very, very honest about the heavy involvement in the program. But I mean, by the time you're calling Arc, you're

alternative is also extremely intense and it's you know it is what are we what are we willing to do to save these kids but I on paper the recovery home is there it does create barriers but like in theory it is

Chuck LaFLange (55:19.808)
of all said.

Ciara (55:34.784)
It is so therapeutic for everyone that's involved. I mean, it helped the siblings here understand my son that was struggling because they were spending time with other kids who were struggling on the same path, but the emotion was removed. So the understanding increased. We were able to have conversations that we couldn't have with our own son because it was so emotionally charged. We took everything personally.

Lisa (56:00.161)
And then because it's, you know, the kids are in treatment during the day and they just come home in the evenings, are families who do have to work, are, you know, the moms and dads that have to go to work during the day, is it something that's feasible, that's doable for families like that?

Ciara (56:17.504)
absolutely, myself and my husband worked throughout AARC. So generally speaking you would be picking up the kids that are staying in your home. Usually it's about 7 o 'clock. There are different group therapy sessions in the evening so it may be a little bit later. It really all depends on what day but usually you're picking up the kids for approximately 7 p and dropping them off at the centre for like 8 a the next morning.

Lisa (56:21.953)
Okay.

Chuck LaFLange (56:44.416)
So some, so most people's jobs would be able to work around something like that or, you know, work with that schedule, right? This is amazing.

Ciara (56:49.216)
Most. Yeah. Yeah, and every, like...

Yeah, every phone call we take at AARC is like they're so different, but like different stories, but same pain. And I think when you find a level of relatability, when that pain is so deep, it's that that's where the buy in happens. It's like I will never, ever forget the first time I went to there's a specific group therapy session for moms and a specific group therapy for dads as well as many others. But I will never forget.

sitting in the first group therapy with a group of moms who have been, who had been on that journey. And I, it made me realize how silent I was throughout the whole journey because they're not, it's not something that you can openly speak about. Mental health conversations are a little different. Being the mom of somebody who struggles with addiction is, I felt like I was like silently screaming, but yes, asking for help, desperately asking for help at the same time.

And I will never forget sitting beside a mom and just realizing she knows, she knows what I'm feeling. And it's, it's that that's what's needed to in order to reach that level where you can support your child in a different way afterwards. There's so much that we have to deal with when we reach that level.

Chuck LaFLange (58:15.464)
I can only imagine. There's definitely more episodes to be had. You know, we're at the top of the hour, so we're gonna have to move into Gratitudes now, ladies, but you've got my attention, and I think you've got Lisa's attention most certainly. And you know, you have to listen to his attention as well, so listeners, watchers.

Ciara (58:17.76)
Yeah.

Ciara (58:35.008)
Is there one second where I can just add in a little more? Sorry.

Raynel (58:35.013)
Can I just, sorry, say one?

Chuck LaFLange (58:39.744)
Of course you can. Yeah, yeah, go ahead. Yep.

Raynel (58:42.565)
Sorry, I just wanted to share that, you know, ARCs, they never want to turn families away because of financial issues. And I do want, it's just so very important to mention that there is subsidy provided. Each family that does come in or reach out for help, ARCs are absolute.

best to work with each family's capabilities as well, which was so vital for myself, being on my own and having to relocate. So I just wanted to make that clear too, because, you know, to have, yeah, yeah, thank you, yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (59:28.352)
hugely important piece most certainly. Yeah, yeah, right.

Ciara (59:33.088)
And Lisa, just to share with you, there have been many research. There has been lots of research done on the art model, which I'm happy to share with you if you I think you might enjoy stepping into that. So, yeah, most recent one was twenty twenty one. So I'm I'm more than happy to connect with you and share that after.

Lisa (59:42.753)
Mm -hmm.

Lisa (59:51.84)
Yeah, definitely.

Chuck LaFLange (59:52.832)
No kidding. Of course, there'll be a link on the website to reach AHRQ, but for people that aren't going to kind of take that step, how do we get in touch with AHRQ? Get a website, phone number, that kind of thing, before we move into Gratitudes, if we could. Yeah.

Ciara (01:00:09.504)
For sure, yeah, and that's how the intake process starts, is just by calling, just picking up the phone. So it's 403 -253 -5250 is the phone number for AARC.

Chuck LaFLange (01:00:21.984)
Okay, great, great, great. So, and again, there'll be a link back to the AARC website in the show notes and on the webpage. So, I think we'll move into my favourite part of the show and that's the daily gratitudes, you know, with a commitment to talking some more in the future, in the near future at that. So, right now why don't we start with you? What are you grateful for today?

Raynel (01:00:45.509)
I am grateful for the support, the love, people like yourself and Dr. Lisa taking time to share such an important message. I'm grateful for where my family is today. I'm grateful that people are willing to help share this message of hope and listen and join together as a village.

to help with a situation that is just so very much needed.

It needs to be vocalized, it needs to be destigmatized, and it warms my heart to be sitting here as part of a panel of such beautiful, amazing people. So thank you.

Chuck LaFLange (01:01:23.968)
Oof.

Chuck LaFLange (01:01:38.08)
Thank you. Ciara, what do you got for some gratitude today?

Ciara (01:01:44.768)
so much as well but I think I can sum everything up by saying I'm grateful for a second chance. Things could be very different.

Chuck LaFLange (01:01:54.336)
That's a short sentence with a big meaning, most certainly. Lisa, what you got?

Lisa (01:02:02.881)
I, again, we recorded twice today, so I don't want to use my same gratitude. You know, I think I'm just going to today stick with gratitude for what you guys are doing at AARC. Again, you know, if I think back to where I was 20 -something years ago, I can feel...

Chuck LaFLange (01:02:08.8)
Grad.

Lisa (01:02:31.809)
the sense of relief I would have felt if somebody had stepped up like Arc is describing they do and said, we can help. Because again, you know, Raynel, we had your experience of, you know, everything we can only do so much and we can't help with this and this is limited and well, it's their choice and all of these messages that we felt like we were getting everywhere we turned, it makes you feel so

so alone and so hopeless. So yeah, I mean, I think I definitely feel like we need to scream about Ark from the mountaintops and spread the word beyond where I think it is right now. But to know you exist, I know the hope that this will give so many people. So, you know, thank you for what you do and Raynel, thanks for coming on and, you know, sharing your experience too.

Chuck LaFLange (01:03:29.248)
Kidding. Kidding. I gotta say for myself, rarely, and this will be episode 248 to put this in perspective, and rarely has something impacted me so much. And I've done memorial episodes, I've done family episodes. The reason I think this one hit so hard is that sense of, it's something that's happening in real time. There's so many.

Ciara (01:03:31.52)
Thanks everyone.

Chuck LaFLange (01:03:59.584)
concepts that we talk about. There's so many things that don't work. There's so many, or that whose success rates are so low that whatever, right? And we have these kind of academic conversations about definitions. And here we are having a conversation about something that is really, really helping in real time. And it's a very, very rare thing. And I am very, very grateful that it's a thing. So I'll say that. Of course you can.

Lisa (01:04:23.201)
And Chris, if I can add on to what you said, it's also something that is hitting where we need to be hitting. You know, I'm seeing the patients when they're 50 years old and they've been struggling for 30 something years and they've tried all the things and they're still struggling. And we, this generally starts in adolescence. This is where we need to be hitting hard.

Chuck LaFLange (01:04:30.944)
Yes.

Chuck LaFLange (01:04:49.568)
almost every single story we've heard starts at adolescence or earlier even. Right. So, yeah. Yeah.

Lisa (01:04:53.793)
or earlier.

Ciara (01:04:54.816)
I think it's fitting to mention that the most recent study on AARC showed that there is a 73 % success rate for clients 12 months after graduation. Wow. Yeah, that speaks for itself.

Lisa (01:05:08.321)
That's incredible.

Chuck LaFLange (01:05:08.608)
That's, I could do an episode on that sentence. Right there. Right.

Ciara (01:05:12.384)
I will share that study with you Dr Lisa.

Lisa (01:05:15.105)
Yes, please.

Chuck LaFLange (01:05:15.2)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, pick that apart make sure it's like like up to muster because then then the rest of the world screwed once I got my hands on that so I'm sure it is but you know what is right so anyway I'm also very very grateful to every single person who continues to like comment share Do all the things talk about the show anything you're doing to help spread the message Every time you do these things you're helping me a little get get a little bit closer to living my best life My best life is to make humble living spreading the message and the message is this if you're an active addiction right now today could be the day today

Lisa (01:05:22.537)
I'm sure it is.

Chuck LaFLange (01:05:46.21)
It could be the day that you start a lifelong journey. Reach out to a friend, reach out to a family member, call them to detox, pray, go to church, hit a meeting. I don't care. Do whatever it is you gotta do to get that journey started, because it is so much better than the alternative. And if you have a loved one who's suffering an addiction right now, you should take the time to listen to this amazing conversation. If you just take one more minute out of your day and text that person, let them know they are loved. Use the words.

Lisa (01:06:12.129)
You are love.

Raynel (01:06:12.517)
You are loved.

Chuck LaFLange (01:06:14.752)
that little glimmer of hope just might be the thing that brings them back.