253- RYAN BATHGATE

Chuck (00:03.798)
everybody, watchers, listeners, supporters of all kinds. Welcome to another episode of the Ash is Awesome podcast. I'm your host, Chuck LaFlange in Krabi, Thailand, halfway around the world in greater Vancouver area somewhere. I don't know if he's in Mission tonight or not. He's my good friend and co -host, Ryan Bathgate How are you doing today, Ryan?

Ryan Bathgate MA (00:19.081)
today, you know, I actually am, good. I'm good. I'm, you know, it's hard to believe, but I didn't have a fucking awful day today. You know, you know, yeah. And that's just it. Do you honestly like, man, it is it like everything. Everything that we put effort into somehow and everything that we practice somehow.

Chuck (00:28.63)
hey.

And more of those on the horizon. More of those on the horizon, right?

Ryan Bathgate MA (00:48.265)
translates into whatever the goal is. Like, you know, like we were talking about, you know, how the growth of the show, you know, you put so many hours into this and finally there's starting to be, you know what I mean? We're starting to see some forward movement. I've literally dedicated the last 101 days to self -care, to...

You know, a renaissance, I'm gonna use a term that I stole from Stacey Wilson, a renaissance of recovery. And you know, like I still have a mountain of stuff that I could be really upset about and really drag me down. But you know what, to be honest with you, I, today, for, I'm gonna say maybe for the first time in seven years, maybe, I feel like I am who I am.

I don't feel like an imposter. I don't have any secrets. I don't have any lies that I need to cover up. You know what I mean? It's just like, to quote Martin Luther King, from hillside to mountaintop lit freedom ring. And that's, yeah, it's a state I'm in and I don't know. I have to attribute it to metaphysics. And I hate being that guy.

Chuck (01:47.446)
That's a big deal.

Chuck (01:57.879)
Yeah, man.

Ryan Bathgate MA (02:16.425)
But there is...

Chuck (02:16.662)
Okay, well, bring that back though, just to keep it relatable. And you know, I like to get on you for that sometimes. To the average job low who's walking into a meeting and doesn't have the education or passion that you do, maybe is a better word than even education for things such as metaphysics and whatever. The average person, what I'm hearing, I'm doing the work, I'm taking it seriously, and life is getting better.

Ryan Bathgate MA (02:23.625)
Yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (02:35.689)
Okay.

Chuck (02:43.35)
to really make that, to really dumb it down if you will, right, to make it really simple, right, you know, yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (02:43.689)
Yes. Yes. Yes, but there's an important element to that. And that is developing a sense of spiritual connectedness that is beyond the realm of science. That we know, that we know, that where we're at. Remember, 300 years ago, everyone on this planet thought the Earth was flat. So there is a lot that we don't know. You know what I mean?

Chuck (02:50.934)
Okay.

Chuck (03:03.254)
Fair enough, fair enough. Yep.

Chuck (03:10.134)
Yeah, there sure is. There sure is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

Ryan Bathgate MA (03:13.421)
And so I know like, like, you know, being value driven is just such a, an important thing that the way I want to navigate my, the foundation of my existence. And so like when I, when I, when I say, when I'm saying is that if I identify as courageous, empathetic, understanding, honest, integral.

And if you ask me who I am, that's my identity, is my values. And I can say that today with confidence. Without, long time, yeah. And so I mean, like I said, the relapse started probably on 2017, but didn't happen until 2019. Do you know what I mean? And there's significant, it is.

Chuck (03:42.646)
Yeah.

Chuck (03:47.254)
Yes.

Chuck (03:51.51)
Yeah, for the first time in a while, right? Yeah.

Chuck (04:03.862)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, which is such a common thing that you hear, right? I mean, that's a long timeline relative to what other people will talk about. My relapses are like a week from inception to culmination, right? But so two years is...

Ryan Bathgate MA (04:17.961)
Yeah, no, no, no, no. Like I take cunning, baffling and powerful to the extreme because like, and you know, like talk about terminal uniqueness, like everything about what I've been through is exactly the same story I've heard a thousand times. There's nothing unique about me. I stopped going to meetings, stopped doing the work. I stopped with any conscious intention. And I did, I, what I did was a little bit different because it was, no, probably not.

I, I, I, instead of believing in something other than myself, something bigger than myself, I did exactly what everyone does. And I believed in my ego. I believed in, being right and being, you know, smarter than everybody. That shit, you know?

Chuck (05:05.238)
I think at some level, you know, I was listening to another, it's an up and coming podcast, some friends of mine that are Montreal called 12 Step Crashers. And I was listening to their conversation. And our conversations as of late just keep coming into my mind when I hear things like my fears are different than everybody else or my, you know what I mean? And I keep thinking like, no, they're not. They are, because we're all unique. We are unique in our own way. But at the end of the day, no.

Ryan Bathgate MA (05:24.849)
Yeah.

Chuck (05:34.614)
Right? I'll put a twist on it so I think that I am and obviously you did the same for a long time, but it is the same shit at the end of the day. We are all very, very alike when it comes to that.

Ryan Bathgate MA (05:34.793)
No, no.

Ryan Bathgate MA (05:42.729)
Sorry.

And I think I can actually explain that with a little bit of logic. What we don't have unique to us is the range of emotions. And emotions are, to me, I see them as like a pool that we all swim in. And you know what I mean? And we share. So we all have, you know, I say love, you know what that is. You have that for you, I know what it is for me.

Chuck (05:50.006)
do so.

Chuck (06:07.062)
Okay.

Ryan Bathgate MA (06:14.633)
But if I say, you know, the corner of 206 and 96 in Surrey, you don't have any clue what that is. So that's a thought, right? So my thoughts actually are mostly fictional because thought and the now don't hold the same space at the same time. So that means that most of my thoughts are about fictional happenings or my perception of something, right? And that makes me not connectable, but...

Chuck (06:23.51)
Yeah, yeah, of course not, right?

Ryan Bathgate MA (06:43.433)
When it comes to emotions, that's where the connection happens. And it's so pure. Right, right. Because when I say like, man, I'm fucking hurt, like, you know what that means. You know what I mean? I'm feeling neglected. I don't feel hurt. You know that you have your own version of that. You can relate to that every time. You know? And so, but when I talk about thought, like, that's why thought is just like, it's really good for stuff. Don't get me wrong. We need cognitive thought. It's absolutely essential.

Chuck (06:46.87)
That's because that's universal, right? Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Chuck (06:53.878)
Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

Chuck (07:02.998)
Exactly, exactly, right. So.

Ryan Bathgate MA (07:13.769)
But it's -

Chuck (07:13.782)
Otherwise we're all living in a chimps life, right? So yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (07:16.809)
Exactly. And then to quote Alan Watts, thought is a wonderful servant, but a horrible master. And so thinking, you know what I mean? And so the master of me needs to be in my heart and it needs to be a connectedness.

Chuck (07:24.342)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Chuck (07:32.31)
And I think to do what I do would bring that back to a very relatable place. Overthinking. Overthinking is, holy. Right? Well, for me, and I'm not disagreeing with you, just kind of a different take on that. For me, overthinking turns into over feeling quite a bit. It drives me crazy, right? And I think for a lot of people it does. You know what I mean? Right? It is so, and.

Ryan Bathgate MA (07:38.609)
Under -feeling. Over -thinking is under -feeling. Every time.

Chuck (08:00.886)
When you're in that place, this is an interesting place to talk about. So I've been battling depression lately, like in a pretty major way. I seem to be coming out of it now. Thank, fuck. It was getting pretty dark for a minute there. And thank you. My mom, yeah, yeah, right. So my mom, a few weeks back, I don't even remember, she's, I'll call you in a bit. Or can I call or whatever? Is it a good time to call? Or I'll call you in a bit.

Ryan Bathgate MA (08:11.465)
Yeah, yeah, sort of hear that. But again, I can relate to that. Yeah, yeah.

Chuck (08:30.934)
And I wasn't expecting that. And it was, and she forgot. God damn it, she forgot. She's a very busy person. So it was like four hours later by the time I talked to her. Do you know what that four hours was? That's a lot of thinking, right? My grandfather had died. I'm like, what's going on? I'm like, because of where I'm at, project what you reflect, right? You know what I mean? So because I'm in this place of like dismal fucking shit feelings,

Ryan Bathgate MA (08:42.089)
That's a lot of thinking. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah

Ryan Bathgate MA (08:59.689)
yeah.

Chuck (09:00.79)
I was like end of the world catastrophizing and it wasn't it was just I don't remember what it was it was comes in completely you know maybe even ambivalent like it was it was good it wasn't a bad conversation but right you know.

Ryan Bathgate MA (09:02.569)
You went low energy.

Ryan Bathgate MA (09:13.929)
So yeah, there's an old AA saying, it goes, it's amazing how much damage I can do between the time I wake up and take a piss in the morning. You know, like in that little span. Now take that and put it into four hours. And it's like.

Chuck (09:27.382)
Yeah. yeah, man. It was horrible. It was absolutely horrible. Right? Yeah. I remember I was talking to Chantel from Trashpost Testimonies. She was on a, yeah, it was a week ago, as a matter of fact. She was on a flight to Norway at the time. That's a whole crazy adventure for her. We can talk about that in a second, actually, because it is relevant to recovery, most certainly. But she, I was talking to her. I was like, listen, I want to talk to my mom. And I'm like, stressed right now. Like, my god.

Ryan Bathgate MA (09:32.073)
Yeah.

Chuck (09:55.414)
She's like, would you just shut up? Because that's our relationship, right? But she couldn't believe it. It was so ridiculous to her that I was so concerned about this conversation. And here we were, right? And it was, it was, it was a ridiculous thing. But you know, when's emotion ever wrapped up in anything rational, right? So, you know, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I want to give a shout out to Chantel on that actually. So, and again, people, that's Trap House Testimony is on Facebook if you want to see a really incredible platform.

Ryan Bathgate MA (10:02.345)
Yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (10:11.113)
Yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (10:14.729)
Yeah, exactly.

Chuck (10:26.358)
This woman, five, six years now, just short of six years, clean. That's the term she uses, right, clean. She is now a leader in the community, like in a big way. She works for an organization called Straight Up. Straight Up something or other. It's about getting people out of indigenous gangs and into a better life. She was just put on the board of directors for Saskatoon.

Ryan Bathgate MA (10:30.665)
Yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (10:35.497)
Okay.

Ryan Bathgate MA (10:52.169)
Mm -hmm.

Chuck (10:55.478)
Elizabeth Fry Society. She's a keynote speaker. She just flew to Norway to speak to them about prisons and to learn about their prison system. Like she just got back last night. I was talking to her on her flight. That is like the power in that. If you can imagine, and she was, she lived a block away from me when she left Regina. Like the trap house, the trap house testimonies was a block away from my last address in Regina. Right?

Ryan Bathgate MA (11:07.593)
Mm -hmm.

Chuck (11:22.454)
And in six short years, this is what she's done with her life, right? So I just, like a big shout out to her. It's just amazing. Her journey has been, you know, just phenomenal, phenomenal, right? Yeah, yeah, right, right. So yeah, yeah, really good for her. So she's been on the show a couple of times. She'll come on, she'll come on often, actually. She'll be on more, but where we were. Yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (11:22.889)
Yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (11:31.177)
Inspiring, yep. Yeah, that's cool. I'll go for her.

Ryan Bathgate MA (11:42.249)
Well, you know, always get a spot on here. I got something cool to tell you about. break some anonymity here, but, well, I was in a meeting today and, someone came up to me and said, Hey,

Chuck (11:47.702)
Yeah, most certainly, right? Most certainly, yeah.

Chuck (11:53.526)
Yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (12:10.345)
You're Ryan Bathgate. And I was like, first I'm like, is this a cough or something? You know, I'm Ryan B in here. No, I didn't say that. I said, yeah, yeah. How do you know that? And he was like, Ash is awesome. Like you do that podcast. And I was like, yeah, hey, cool. Yeah. You know, and so we went on, you know, I did the meeting and then afterwards he came up, shook my hand and said,

Chuck (12:15.318)
Yet to be determined.

Chuck (12:32.598)
Okay, that's something, that's something, right?

Ryan Bathgate MA (12:39.401)
that, he, what's the way, you know, like I was kind of like, the thing is, is like, I've been saying this thing and we talked about it on, on the ramble where like, I'm like, there's only one way I know how to do this. And so that's what he said to me. He's like, I really appreciate it. When you said there's only one, I only know one way to do it. I don't particularly like, and he was like, I thought I was the only one that didn't like this, but knows I have to do it. You know, and I'm like, you're not, you know, but, and then I was like, to be honest with you, like.

Chuck (13:06.262)
Yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (13:08.937)
I hate to say it, but I've been really enjoying them. Meetings, yeah.

Chuck (13:13.366)
Yeah. Why? Why? Why does that change for you? Or should I say to bring it back to, and by the way, that Ramble hasn't aired yet. That's on this coming Saturday. So yeah, hey, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think he was probably referring to the reel that I released from the Ramble where you did say that, right? But, okay, okay. Fair enough, fair enough. Okay, okay. And it has been mentioned a few times, but.

Ryan Bathgate MA (13:17.449)
Uhhh, well, I think...

Ryan Bathgate MA (13:23.369)
spoiler alert. Whoopsies.

Ryan Bathgate MA (13:31.401)
No, no, no, it was the first episode that we did back. Yeah. Yeah, actually, I think I clarified that with him. He did watch the whole thing, yeah.

Chuck (13:41.75)
I'll bring that back because at one point in this ramble coming up, Lisa asks you, Dr. Lisa for anybody who's not familiar, about whether or not you really don't like going or whether that's you doing something else in your brain. So then I'll, holding on, right? So then I'll ask you again, because you know, I kind of like going. Did you really not like going before or was it just your ego kind of stopping you from liking it, right? From just enjoying the process, right? You know?

Ryan Bathgate MA (13:55.913)
Holding on. Holding on.

Ryan Bathgate MA (14:07.817)
It, well, nah, you know, or there's smokeless fire, right? Like there was, there was, I start, again, it's about like my own health. As it deteriorated, I would project that to the things I didn't like in the recovery communities, which there are, you know, whatever you look for, you're gonna find, you know what I mean? And like, and so I was looking for like inauthenticities and people that are full of shit, you know, and like.

Chuck (14:29.366)
Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (14:35.497)
and being like, you know, I, you know, I fuck this. And the slogans on the wall started pissing me off. And, you know, and I, you know, I took those things and I turned them into something. And if you look at it, like I said, I said, cutting back, being powerful, because that's part of this is like, you know, I'm a, I'm an addict. I'm many more things, but part of it.

Part of me is substance use disorder that I have. And that's never gonna change. But my mind wants to change that. My ego wants to change that. And what happens is, is like, I start to pick those things apart, it's just this thing in action. And I can, you know, it's a pattern, man. Like it happened the first time through, at eight years, it happened again at eight years, the second time. But the eight years, the second time, it took longer.

Chuck (15:16.438)
Of course.

Ryan Bathgate MA (15:34.985)
for me to actually finally pick up a drink. So no, I go in and I sit down there and there's a part of me that feels at home. And there's a safety to it or...

You know like it like a like survivors of a shipwreck we share a common bond and in that is like Yeah, and so like the first you like first meeting I went to Coming back I Joined is my home group now Love them. It's amazing. I love this meeting. It's a little tiny little meeting with some really amazing people in it But like the first meeting I went to there was like six people. I'm like, this is my spot. I'm there

Chuck (16:06.774)
fellowship is powerful. It really is. Right? Yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (16:29.737)
You know what I mean? Because I don't want the show and shines anymore. I don't want nothing to do with that. And so, but, you know, I just...

Chuck (16:37.526)
until somebody comes up and says, aren't you Ryan Patcate from the podcast?

Ryan Bathgate MA (16:39.913)
Yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (16:44.297)
Well, you know, the thing is, is I don't, well, I don't, you know, I don't talk about that in there. You know what I mean? And I don't talk about, like, I'm not like, I'm Ryan Bath, I'm a counselor. I don't talk about that in there. I want to leave that, for me, it's important because part of my issue is that, like, I just said, well, I don't need to do step 12 because I work in the industry. And like I said before, like, when I work, it takes for me. When I...

Chuck (16:45.846)
You're six person fucking meeting.

No, of course not. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Chuck (17:12.822)
Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (17:14.313)
do service work, it gives to me. Does that make sense? And now there's nowhere that I'm gonna do service work counseling. I've never heard of that as service work. So, you know, it's not a recovery thing. It's a community thing. And so I'm just like seeing so many different opportunities once, and it all comes back to,

Chuck (17:18.038)
Yeah, that makes perfect sense, makes absolute sense, yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (17:44.169)
Humility kicking the shit out of me, you know and catching up to me and teaching me that I am just as Fallible and and capable as every other human being on this planet and I have the same amount of potential and I have the same amount of brain power You know, like there's nothing really that unique about about me and and You know that takes a lot of pressure off like to be honest with you like I

Chuck (18:12.406)
I suppose it was. And I guess, so is that what it is about the meetings then? Is it that I get to just strip it all away and just be an asshole sitting here like everybody else? Is that what it is? No? What?

Ryan Bathgate MA (18:14.217)
You know, like...

Ryan Bathgate MA (18:22.089)
No. You know what it is? My ego doesn't want to see it. I know.

Chuck (18:29.686)
I do though.

Ryan Bathgate MA (18:34.249)
I have developed a...

deeper understanding of my spiritual experience. There is a connectedness with something that I don't know what it is, but that for some reason, feeling open to something beyond myself, bigger than myself, it's...

I'm not alone. I don't know. You know what I mean? And like, where you have addiction, you have loneliness. And so, you know, and, you know, like, you know, all...

Chuck (19:09.238)
always.

I'll tell you what, that's a path I'm on right now. So I can really kind of relate. I think we're at different, it's not a spectrum or a line of any kind, so I won't say different places. Different, but our journeys are different that way, I think. But not that I can really, sure, right? For me, I mean, I've always questioned,

Ryan Bathgate MA (19:30.601)
Continuum?

Chuck (19:42.006)
my beliefs always, right, for a very long, very long time. I constantly now, that the further I get into this recovery community, and I talk to these extremely intelligent people, and I'll say it, like a term was used not that long ago, sky daddy, you know, in reference to God and whatever. And it was like, ooh, right? And then, but I found, I found myself, I find myself, as I think back to that term, that the moment that that was used in a conversation I was having,

It's like, I don't think that's, no man, like I don't think you can do that because there's extremely intelligent people in the recovery community. It was basically who I communicate with the vast majority of the time. So that's, you know, that's what I'm exposed to. But you look at, you know, some really high, high IQ people like in, you know, people in the public figures.

How can all those people believe in something so ridiculous as a sky daddy? Because maybe it's not something so ridiculous. You know what I mean, right? And that's really where I'm at, right? You know, like, you know.

Ryan Bathgate MA (20:41.673)
Well, here's, I do, I do. So, I mean, I consider myself an intelligent human being and, but it has nothing to do, intelligence has nothing to do with my inability to connect with something beyond myself. That's just pure arrogance. And that arrogance has keeps me from connecting with you as well, because in my belief system, this, you know, God of my understanding lives within all of us. And it's really, to me, it's more about energy. It's about like,

Chuck (20:49.206)
Of course.

Ryan Bathgate MA (21:11.401)
you know, the divine.

Ryan Bathgate MA (21:19.433)
archetype of the entire universe. Like there is, you know, and it's, you know, I look at a spider web or a butterfly's wing and like, there's some really cool shit happening that I can't explain. And I don't know why we are the exact distance from the sun that would, that would hold life. I don't know why, but it is. And, you know, so much so that if we turn it a little bit,

Chuck (21:23.702)
Yep. Yep.

Chuck (21:34.422)
Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (21:48.809)
You freeze to death or you turn it a bit, you die of a heat, you know, and that's just staying in the same distance. And you know, so if we were two feet in, probably all die. You know what I mean? Yeah. And so like, and like, and I don't know. And that's, that's the magic for me is that I don't have to fucking know. It doesn't matter. I just need to feel.

Chuck (21:55.766)
Yeah, right.

Chuck (22:00.342)
Yeah.

Chuck (22:10.262)
That's fair. That's fair.

Ryan Bathgate MA (22:13.321)
And as far as I'm concerned, if I don't have that, then I don't have the access point I need to all the things that I want in life, which are joy and curiosity and exploration and all that stuff. Because, right, and I have a hard time being kind to anybody, including myself. And so when I'm left, I mean, dude, well, look at what happens when I run my life. Look at what happened. Arrogance, condescending, and...

Chuck (22:25.334)
All those things, right? Yep. Yep.

Chuck (22:30.41)
Especially yourself, maybe.

Chuck (22:38.198)
Yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (22:42.665)
ultimately lying, loss of integrity, no compassion, no understanding. I'm seeking to be understood. You know what I mean? And so like, you know, they have the thing called promises and it says like, you will lose interest in self of things and gain interest in your fellows. And when I'm not connected, it goes the exact opposite. I...

Chuck (22:51.558)
Yes. Yeah.

Chuck (23:09.174)
Of course it does.

Ryan Bathgate MA (23:09.929)
I lose interest in my fellows and become only interested, gain interest in selfish things. And I cannot argue with the fucking data. I can't. And in my successful stretches of recovery, I was in the same belief system then. Where I don't know, it's a little bit more refined now because of my understanding of.

Chuck (23:19.382)
Yeah.

Chuck (23:30.806)
Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (23:36.425)
a little bit more understanding of metaphysics and also like I've done a little bit of research on Carl Jung and his understanding of the spiritual element of the human existence, which kind of had him a bit of a black sheep in the air. They thought he's crazy because he talked about spirituality being an essential part of the human experience. And, you know, from a psychodynamic, they're going to be like, no, it's not.

Why don't you lay down on my couch and I'll tell you what's wrong with you. And then that's what that model does. But you tell me there's something magical that happens when my little girl hugs me that I can't explain. And it's something I never forget, which means it's really important because there's enough emotion there to create sustainable memory. And so like.

Chuck (24:09.654)
Yeah. Yeah.

Chuck (24:21.526)
Yeah, yes. Yes. Yeah.

Chuck (24:32.726)
Fair enough, yep.

Ryan Bathgate MA (24:34.537)
Dude, why? And the big thing of why this is a change for me is honestly because I looked at my little girls and I looked at my arrogant belief system and I thought, why not? Why not try and believe this shit? If it's working for other people, why not? This is my kids on the line. Are they not more important than my fucking stupid beliefs of arrogance?

Chuck (24:39.67)
Mm -hmm.

Chuck (24:58.006)
Yeah. Yep.

Chuck (25:02.933)
Yeah, of course. Of course they are.

Ryan Bathgate MA (25:03.433)
You know, thinking I'm smarter than spirituality. Well, yeah, like ultimately. So, yeah, I mean, it's been monumental. And like, you know, I had this big resentment a couple of days ago. And I just stopped and I just, you know, I...

Chuck (25:06.806)
everybody and everything. Yeah, right. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (25:30.569)
I don't want to live like this. Take this for me. That's all I said. And I woke up and it was gone. I had compassion for that person. Like...

Chuck (25:41.622)
That sounds like a prayer, my friend. Sounds an awful lot like a prayer.

Ryan Bathgate MA (25:43.913)
Don't you ever use the P word again.

Ryan Bathgate MA (25:51.977)
Fuck, guilty is charged, dude. What am I gonna say? And you know what? I don't give a shit, because it's my little girls that matter. And if that's the little thing that's gonna help them, then I'm gonna do it. I don't care. I don't care what anyone thinks. You know what I mean?

Chuck (25:54.998)
pay, you know.

Chuck (25:59.382)
Yeah, yeah, of course it is.

Chuck (26:07.99)
So that makes me think of something. Sonia Johnson, who's another recovery content creator, when she was on with Lisa and I, she said, you know, one of the things that you can't do it for anybody else, you have to do it for yourself, you know, the mantra, right? And she said in her experience, and I've been thinking about this a lot with you actually, but not sure how and when to word it, but she said in her experience, that wasn't the case.

Ryan Bathgate MA (26:25.257)
Yeah.

Chuck (26:36.406)
She got thrown in jail and she thought, my kids. She got sober for her kids, 100%. And here she is today, I don't know, seven or eight years later, something like that. Working her ass off, thriving in life, killing it for a harm reduction world and recovery community in general. She's really doing great things. And it all starts with, she's like, myself isn't enough. I have to do this for my kids. So.

Ryan Bathgate MA (26:38.865)
Yep.

Ryan Bathgate MA (26:59.593)
Yeah, let's see. I see it a little bit differently.

Chuck (27:02.614)
Well, explain, right? Explain. And I'm not even like, I'm not looking for a difference in opinion. I'm just looking for thoughts, right? You know what I mean? So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (27:09.289)
Yeah, okay, well, my thoughts are that it is for me because I want to be a good dad. So it's for both, really. When I decided that I was going to continue on, I should say, with life, the reason is because I didn't want to do that to my girls.

And so then it was like, you know, okay, so now it's all borrowed time. And so what matters more to me than my girls? Nothing. So they are, no, they're numbered exactly like to the point that, you know, I didn't want to be here anymore. And so...

Chuck (27:40.598)
Right.

Chuck (27:45.27)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Chuck (27:53.846)
Yeah, right, not even yourself, right? Yeah, right.

Chuck (27:59.702)
Yeah. So I hear you kind of solidifying her point right now, not speaking differently to it, right?

Ryan Bathgate MA (28:09.065)
No, I'm not, but I see it as I need to be better. I need to do it for myself, for them. Same thing. It's the same thing. It's the same thing. I mean, I see it differently because they're together. There's not one A and one B, it's one A and one A. They coexist in my belief system.

Chuck (28:20.886)
It's the same thing. Yeah, now we're just, now we're, yeah, yeah, right. Yeah.

Chuck (28:34.934)
Exactly. Yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (28:38.857)
yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Chuck (28:40.054)
Which we could go in circles about that quite a bit. I think we're pretty much on the same page. But it leads me to another thing that I've been thinking about. You spent way too much time in my head. Well, I'm glad you're back, brother. So one of the things that.

Ryan Bathgate MA (28:50.889)
You're welcome.

Chuck (28:58.454)
You know, I mean, it takes, I'll think about a question for three fucking months and then it'll take me 10 minutes to get it out.

Ryan Bathgate MA (29:04.201)
Sounds efficient.

Chuck (29:08.822)
When we talk about, and you know this is something that's been on my mind lately, like gift of desperation, all those things, right? If, and ifs are hard, right? I mean, it's really hard to go back and say, but I think you can make an honest crack at it. If the night everything blew up in your life and you had not been arrested,

and you had just lost your family? Do you think that time outside of jail, had you been outside of jail for that time, do you think you would have gone the right path? Yeah? Yeah? Yeah? Yeah? Okay.

Ryan Bathgate MA (29:42.857)
Yes.

If you said lost my family, yes. No matter where I spent that time, it doesn't matter. The only caveat I would say is that I might not have been able to stop.

Chuck (29:52.47)
Yeah, yeah. Okay.

Chuck (30:00.822)
And they're okay. Thank you. That's really what I'm trying to get to here. I just I worded it poorly in that the the idea of wanting it bad enough. You know what I mean? And you're a healthy person who was still at that point with your family until hours before. You know what I mean? Like wanting it bad enough to me. Almost pisses me off when people lean on that so much. Because there's a lot of people that are way too sick to want anything bad enough for long enough to actually follow through with what it takes.

Ryan Bathgate MA (30:06.025)
But as soon as...

Well there would have been...

Ryan Bathgate MA (30:31.529)
Yeah, I think that we get these moments of... I think we all have these moments of... I don't know if it's clarity, but... There's a moment which... Well, yeah, and it's usually like I wake up and before I snort that, drink that, swallow that, inject that, it's usually because I can't stand the thought of my reality.

Chuck (30:31.99)
You know what I mean?

Chuck (30:44.182)
Yeah, it is. I would say the irons hot, whatever, right? You know? Yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (30:59.913)
And that's the moment though that is very vulnerable to change. And so, I think if we do that enough times, eventually it's like, okay, I've got to act on this. And I think that if I lost my family, I would come to a point at some point in the very near future, I believe that that would supersede my need to continue on in this destructive path.

Chuck (31:04.15)
Yes. Yes.

Chuck (31:23.782)
And fair enough, right? You're super attached to it. So you're not on that outline of people, even like myself, where I was, right? I lost connection with my family, arguably three years before, four years before, right? Two years for certain, three years for certain.

Ryan Bathgate MA (31:26.697)
Yes, budget.

Chuck (31:44.886)
wanting it wasn't the question anymore. It was this, how do you even get there from here? Right? You know, I'd wake up and yeah, this really sucks. Yeah, I want it. But my brain would just go, well, we know how to deal with that. You know, we've got that coping mechanism built in and off you go. So if you add a layer of somebody being physically sick,

Ryan Bathgate MA (31:54.569)
Yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (31:58.921)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and then...

Ryan Bathgate MA (32:06.985)
Yeah.

Chuck (32:07.51)
and in a really destitute situation, and you say, well, that person has to want it bad enough, I say to you, you're asking somebody sick to make a healthy choice at that point. And that's where I'm getting frustrated with that language quite a bit, right? And that kind of mentality.

Ryan Bathgate MA (32:20.329)
When I just saw that.

Well, think about what that language carries. What emotions behind that?

Chuck (32:31.318)
to tell what are you coming out with this.

Ryan Bathgate MA (32:32.809)
Well, what do you, you gotta, you say to me you gotta want it, what do you think I'm gonna feel?

Chuck (32:38.934)
shame, right? Yeah, yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (32:39.913)
Yeah, I'm not enough. Because up to this point, I haven't done it. So clearly, I don't want it bad enough. To me, it's like, you know, we joke around. Yeah, and like, who the fuck are you? Who the fuck are you to tell me I don't want it bad enough? You know, like, to me, it's an eagle. You're being superior by saying that, in my opinion. Like...

Chuck (32:51.478)
I don't like the language. I don't, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Chuck (33:07.126)
Yeah, we're not training for a karate kid fight. We're not, you know what I mean? Like this is, this is, you know, real life.

Ryan Bathgate MA (33:10.921)
No.

Yeah, like in some baseball, in baseball, we laugh. One of the jokes we say, like somebody misses a ball, they die for it. We go, you got to you got to want it. You know, and like it's a joke because you can't fucking do any more and you've done, you know. And so like so and it's very.

Chuck (33:23.606)
Yeah.

And I would argue that somebody who's really sick, that's a fair metaphor, right? You know, somebody that's like, man, you know.

Ryan Bathgate MA (33:33.961)
and you

So in the throws of substance use disorder, post -traumatic stress disorder, crushing loss, these all put our mind in a state that would be similar to insanity. In other words, unreliable thought processing. And like, to, right, right, and so like.

Chuck (34:00.79)
Yeah, right, lizard brain all the way, all the time. Combined with surviving, with being in actual survival mode for long sustained periods, right? You're a fucking lizard. Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (34:08.393)
Yeah, so that jail time gave me the space I needed to come out of that fog. So it might've been a bit longer, but what happened? Especially losing my family, especially. Might've, might've.

Chuck (34:16.726)
Yeah, yeah, right.

Of course, of course, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, might have taken longer to kick in or whatever, right? But you wake up on your buddy's couch and go, fuck, she kicked me out, man, this really sucks. Right? You know? And I think that's the beginning of a lot of really tragic stories, actually, something similar to that, right? You know what I mean? Yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (34:32.265)
Yeah, well, yeah, yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (34:40.777)
Yes. Yeah. And, and there's a reason that the, you know, what is the rate of success in treatment is 5%. It's something like that. Yeah. And like, dude, like, man, the shit I've been through in the last little bit, I want to reframe that. The shit I put myself and others through over the last while. there's, if, if I didn't have agency, if I didn't have autonomy,

Chuck (34:50.742)
something like the single digits, single digits, right? You know, yeah, yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (35:09.737)
And if I didn't have a wealth of experience in recovery, I don't know how anybody gets through this without using. I don't know how. You know what I mean? Like the system, it seems like it's set up to create or recreate exactly the malady that got them there in the first place. I just don't see how this is, the way that the medical system is, the judicial system,

Chuck (35:19.638)
Right? Right.

Chuck (35:38.23)
healthcare system, I mean that's not part, well in some ways it is part of your journey right now too, right? But yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is, that's funny, sorry to cut you off, but to be related from my own experience, right? I'm sure you've heard me talk about it. When I went to go get ID after being homeless for a couple years, right? I'd literally go back to my birth name. I had to change my name, no, to not change my name, right? The barriers put in front of me,

Ryan Bathgate MA (35:39.049)
healthcare system. It is. Sure it is, yeah. And like, none of it.

Ryan Bathgate MA (35:58.313)
Yeah.

Chuck (36:08.15)
person with a little bit of sobriety under my belt, you know, a few months at that time, some resources, some family to help me, some stability, some supports, it almost broke me. It almost broke me just trying to get ID so I could get a bank account and I could adult, right? The irony is you had to have a bank account to get the ID, which was like, are you fucking kidding me right now, right?

Ryan Bathgate MA (36:18.089)
Yeah, exactly.

Ryan Bathgate MA (36:24.137)
Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (36:29.769)
You have to have ID to get a bank account.

Chuck (36:34.294)
So, and that's one, that's one small hurdle that somebody coming in from the cold, as I like to call it, right, has to get through. Can you imagine the family stuff, the healthcare stuff, the illegal, the, like, there is so many reasons for it not to work out in your favor, right? So don't tell me that somebody has to want it bad enough. You know what I mean? Like,

Ryan Bathgate MA (36:39.817)
Yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (36:50.345)
Yeah. It's just...

Chuck (37:01.462)
Just fuck, it's so easy. They come up with wall after wall after wall after wall. And it's like, how badly do you want a sick person, like how healthy do you want a sick person to act? And for how long? Right? Sure. Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (37:10.313)
Well, let me, let me devil's advocate a bit.

I also know... Trying to help somebody that doesn't want help is a fucking waste of time.

Chuck (37:21.942)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

Ryan Bathgate MA (37:23.817)
So like, how do you, I don't like, I just, to me it's like when the student's ready, the teacher appears, you know? And like, so for me, you know, like my thing is like, hey, when you're ready, I'm there. 100%. But also,

Chuck (37:35.382)
Yeah. Yeah.

Chuck (37:44.758)
It's unfortunate that it is like that, but it is like that. And I think until you get to the wall of somebody not having capacity, and in which case, now we get into the mandated treatment discussion, but if you don't have capacity to make good decisions for yourself, if you are not capable of doing that by, after checking off all the boxes and all the protocols, I believe you should be forced into treatment, to give you a shot at it. Yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (38:07.817)
Dude, it's a mental health issue. It's a mental health issue. And if you are having a mental health break, you get certified. Which is mandated.

Chuck (38:16.566)
Yeah, Lisa talks about this all the time, right? All the time she talks about this, right?

Ryan Bathgate MA (38:21.897)
Yeah, and so I guess I agree with her because I've mandated anything. It's hard for me to get with. However, I look at it like it's better than an eight by eight cell. It's better than crime school, which is jail. And...

Chuck (38:38.998)
Yeah.

Chuck (38:44.502)
Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (38:49.577)
You know, it's better than death. And we're really living in, that's where we're at. You know, so.

Chuck (38:53.174)
Most certainly, right? Most certainly.

Chuck (38:58.006)
Alberta's doing some really, really interesting things that way, eh? Really interesting. And it's not just mandated treatment is the end all and be all. They are systems. I don't know if you're up to date at all about what's going on there. I'm sure you've heard the grumblings. Of course, being in British Columbia, you're going to hear more grumblings because the focus is very different there. There's a three -part article by Paul Wells, three -part series by journalist Paul Wells. It's online right now. You can easily find it.

Ryan Bathgate MA (39:09.897)
Nala.

Ryan Bathgate MA (39:18.889)
Yeah, but I... yeah.

Chuck (39:28.214)
where he really takes a deep dive into what they're doing there. It is not what the optics, it is not. Yeah, their addictions, health ministry is now the addictions and mental health ministry. It's A, not a basement in the, or not an office in the basement anymore. It's their seventh largest ministry in the province. And they have everybody answering to them. In an effort to, the intentions are very good, whether or not it plays out that way, because,

Ryan Bathgate MA (39:31.817)
It's.

well, so, okay.

Ryan Bathgate MA (39:48.425)
Mm -hmm.

Chuck (39:57.462)
bureaucrats and bureaucrats and politics and politics. But the intent is to have all the data streaming into one place and have all these systems working together to make a one big system. Things like if you get in the back of a police car, you have access to Matt over the phone. Right then and there, you can get Matt treatment. Over the phone, the police can call in, speak to a doctor and actually get you.

your methadone or whatever if you want to get on treatment, if you want to start that kind of treatment. That's one example, right, of what they can do.

Ryan Bathgate MA (40:27.721)
Yeah, so like to me that's that's a social evolution like do you remember? Do you remember why Ted Bundy took so long to get caught and got killed so many people? Because they didn't have a central database. He just would go to a different state. And they nobody talked Washington didn't talk to Colorado didn't talk to Florida.

Chuck (40:38.866)
Why?

Chuck (40:45.142)
okay, yeah.

Chuck (40:52.342)
Yeah, yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (40:52.425)
You know what I mean? So it wasn't until they caught him that they realized that it was him in all these different states. Because there was no, there was no, no one was talking to anyone else. And then you have egos and you know, it's just like, it becomes a turf war. Yeah, exactly.

Chuck (40:58.966)
Yes, yes.

Chuck (41:04.15)
Yeah. All the shit that happens in there. Right. And right now, I think across North America, it's a bunch of nonprofits and health or government organizations and departments all battling for money. And then and then comes that then comes the care part. Right. But they all need to be funded. So they have to fight for that. Right. You know, that's just the reality of them. And then they get to care for people. And it's just. We can do so much better.

Ryan Bathgate MA (41:19.433)
Totally, dude, and honestly, if you really...

Ryan Bathgate MA (41:26.377)
Yeah.

Chuck (41:33.814)
They even have an office for systems navigation, a systems navigation department set up within that ministry. So that department is to help people navigate all the different systems. They put people in there who are experts on what's going on all over the province, all the different things, and say, hey, listen, this guy, this guy, to this guy, to this guy. So if you can imagine your social worker having access to all that information, I think it's a wonderful idea. Whether or not it plays out that way, remains to be seen.

Ryan Bathgate MA (42:02.697)
Yeah, honestly, you know, you take a good idea, you give it to North America, they'll ruin it, you give it to Europe and they'll make it awesome. Honestly, like look at Four Pillars, like work like a charm in Switzerland. And they try to do it here, but because, you know, the motives are not public health. The motives are voters. The motives are funding streams. Like it's not citizen care.

Chuck (42:09.558)
Yeah.

Chuck (42:18.134)
Yeah. Yeah.

Chuck (42:27.318)
Yeah.

Chuck (42:32.406)
Yeah, yeah, it's everybody fighting over. Yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (42:32.585)
You know, whereas, you know, they had, well, yeah, they had, you know, I think Switzerland had a, the number one on the agenda was the AIDS epidemic in the 80s. And they brought in, they brought in, I don't want to use that word. No, no, they brought in government supplied heroin.

Chuck (42:47.606)
needle exchange.

okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (42:54.409)
And what happened is it fell off the political agenda. And the spread of intravenous disease just plummeted. And the other thing that happened was from a social impact, children stopped looking at it as the chic rebel thing to do. And they looked at it as an illness or like, I don't want...

Chuck (43:19.262)
Yeah. Smoking or like, you know, smoking. Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (43:24.297)
I don't want diabetes or I don't want heart disease. Like I don't want substance use disorder. Like, you know what I mean? Like, and, and those people that had substance use disorder that were addicted to opiates started to get jobs and start to buy houses and started to reclaim their citizenship while still being addicted. And eventually most of them, worked with their doctors to come off. And we tried to do that here and.

I don't even, I don't even, it makes me so mad. And the bottom line is that it's gonna take a lot of courage for a politician to stand up and say this is the best thing for public care. And ultimately, like Jimmy Carter, like they don't get voted back in. Jimmy Carter, he took all the funding in the late 70s. He took funding from policing and put it into recovery and all these.

Chuck (43:54.106)
Yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (44:21.609)
Minnesota Model Treatment Center started popping up and he only lasted one term. And then they voted, and then who did they vote in? Ronald Reagan. Yeah, exactly. Like, yeah, well, it was the eighties, man. I mean, you know, and their whole campaign, you know, give me a green t -shirt, just say no. Like.

Chuck (44:27.542)
Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Yeah, yeah, right. Fuck, I'm surprised I knew that. Yeah.

Chuck (44:47.254)
Yeah, it's ridiculous. It was. It was.

Ryan Bathgate MA (44:47.561)
just you know and you know and then the irony is that they were you know they were using they're bringing in they're using the Sinaloa cartel to train the the the conscious for their invasion in Nicaragua and they were doing that by by buying cocaine and dropping it into inner cities all over the country as crack and they basically created the crack epidemic all in meanwhile Nancy Reagan's fight got her fucking green t -shirt you know just saying just say no like just hypocrisy it's disgusting.

Chuck (45:05.174)
Yeah, right. Yeah.

Chuck (45:13.846)
Crazy, just crazy, yeah. There's a really good show. Have you watched Snowball, Snowfall?

Ryan Bathgate MA (45:19.945)
Yeah, I tried. Couldn't, couldn't, didn't take, didn't take.

Chuck (45:21.814)
Yeah. wow, man. I was like right through the last season, all one binge, right? I think it was seven seasons long. And I watched it completely all the way through without watching another minute of anything else. Right? So yeah. Yeah. that was good too. That was good. Yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (45:33.513)
I think I did that with Queen of the South, which was like that. Yeah. And I like all the Narcos, but no, I tried. Maybe I'll try it again. I just finished Shogun. That was pretty good. And then I'm gonna, and I've just started Eric, which is also very interesting. Yeah, it's very, I just started it. I had a client recommend it and he was right. It's pretty good. So anyways, wow, we, yeah, did we have a topic? Like,

Chuck (45:43.414)
Yeah. Fuck, is that good? Yeah. Yeah, I want to check that one out. You had mentioned that one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

topic if there ever was a this episode brought to you by ADHD.

Ryan Bathgate MA (46:04.265)
Yeah, where's my car keys? I love that poem. So I guess, you know, to answer your question, I'm doing good, Chuck. No, I'm very grateful for recovery. And I'm not sure I thought I'd ever say that again.

Chuck (46:18.71)
Ha ha!

Ryan Bathgate MA (46:31.689)
But, you know, and I got, so yeah, like I said, I went to a meeting and this guy, I, you know, I talked a little bit about what I was going through at the time. And this guy was like, basically went through the same thing years ago. And I was like, I'm not alone. I'm not, but I mean, my God, when you go, when you, you know, when you do something like I did, it's pretty hard to not feel.

Chuck (46:45.462)
Of course you did.

Chuck (46:49.718)
No, right? We never are, but fuck, we think we are, right? You know?

Ryan Bathgate MA (46:59.209)
like the scum of the earth, you know what I mean? And so, but you know, I ended up asking the guy to sponsor me, to be honest with you. maybe, you know what, you need, no.

Chuck (47:01.238)
courses.

Chuck (47:06.23)
Really? That's good.

Ryan Bathgate MA (47:11.593)
No, no. You remember what the A is for.

Chuck (47:11.638)
No.

Chuck (47:16.246)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (47:17.353)
Yeah, so maybe that needs to...

Chuck (47:21.206)
Okay.

I don't even think, that's not it, because you're not names, you're not, there's no home group, there's no nothing. All it is is I found a sponsor, right? Okay, okay, fair enough.

Ryan Bathgate MA (47:25.097)
yeah, I -

Ryan Bathgate MA (47:33.321)
Yeah, but people are gonna know who my sponsor is.

Two plus two is four, not celery. Yeah, yeah, so I just, yeah, I need to, yeah, sorry, man. I know, yeah, I'm usually pretty good with that. So anyways, but what happened is I found someone relatable instantly. And like, come on, like, I want to believe that there's a divine intervention there.

Chuck (47:47.478)
It's all good. It's all good. It's all good.

Ryan Bathgate MA (48:05.801)
And I'm going to. Because I want to.

Chuck (48:08.502)
I challenge anybody to say different, right? And find a good reason for it, you know, right? So, yeah. Not even by challenge, challenge anybody to do anything, right? Because if that's what you want to believe, that's what you believe, and everyone else can fuck right off as far as I'm concerned, right? You know? So, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (48:12.073)
I just... Yeah, you look at the data, man, and it's like...

Ryan Bathgate MA (48:19.305)
Yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (48:23.049)
Yeah, I agree. I agree. But you know, like for, you know, just by, just by being willing to put my ego aside for a minute and open the door to that instantly, my life has shifted. Now can I can't argue with data. I can argue with perception, but I can't argue with objective fact. And yeah, I don't. So.

Chuck (48:44.918)
No, hard to do.

Chuck (48:50.038)
true story.

Ryan Bathgate MA (48:52.361)
for the first time in a long time, I'm excited about the next chapter, man. Like I'm, I'm, I want to see what this life has to bring for me. Like, and what more importantly, what I can bring to it and the people in it. Like I, there's people in my life that, that love me and, accept me and, and celebrate me in spite of my, of my errors, you know, and, and, and, and my mind tells me that that's never going to happen because you're such a loser.

You know, and like, you know, am I, is this my best friend? No. You know, and now I can have a little bit of kindness. Like, you know, I still have, it's still shame though, like, and that's gonna be, it's gonna be for a while. And to be honest with you, I feel like I need to hold onto that a bit to pay, almost to pay tribute to the people I hurt. You know what I mean? Like, I need.

Chuck (49:24.438)
man.

Yeah.

Chuck (49:46.166)
Isn't that guilt though? By your definition of guilt and shame?

Ryan Bathgate MA (49:48.873)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is. It is. But I think I'm alluding to forgiveness. And I have to find that space eventually. I just I I I have so much respect for the people that have stuck with me and you know who you are out there, especially, you know, I'm not saying that, but especially those closest.

Chuck (49:56.918)
Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (50:18.629)
And do I deserve it? I don't feel like it. But I'm not going to question the workings of the universe. And I have to believe that if this has all come together before for a reason, then I have to believe this is no different. You know what I mean? And to be honest, I want to. I don't have to. I want to. I want to believe that. I want to believe a lot of things. I want to believe that the next thing, the next...

phase of experience is the easy part. I think life's the hard part. I think when we pass on to the next thing, that's when we get to kick our feet up. The true retirement. But yeah, and spend time with those people that have impacted us. And I want to believe that. And nobody can argue with me because nobody knows what's there. Nobody. And to be honest with you, I don't. Argue with me all you want. It's my life. It's my perception. Yeah. And like...

Chuck (50:58.742)
No kidding, eh? No kidding.

Chuck (51:07.894)
Yeah, yeah, right.

Chuck (51:14.23)
True story, true story, true story. Hey, well, that brings us to my favorite part of the show, buddy. That's telling gratitude. We're there. We're there. Right? Yeah. What you got for us?

Ryan Bathgate MA (51:21.225)
We're there?

Alright, that's it. Okay.

I'm grateful for forgiveness. I'm a quote, quote, huggy bear from Snoop Dogg as Huggy Bear. Yeah. To be a bear is to be human. To be of forgiveness is to be divine. And I am grateful for forgiveness. And I, and, and,

Chuck (51:40.63)
Okay.

Starsky and Hutch. Yes. Yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (52:01.097)
people just just people some people are just beautiful souls man and in the fact that I get to witness beautiful people doing beautiful things in action is just yeah it there's so much to this life that is worth living for man and like you know it's it's a trip it's a ride we only have one job and that's to enjoy the ride.

And I want to get back to that simplicity. So I'm grateful for simplicity. I'm grateful for this show that allows me really a snapshot of human evolution or personal evolution. I'm grateful for humility. And I'm grateful for my two beautiful little girls and obviously, Marina.

Chuck (52:57.91)
Chris. Myself today, go ahead.

Ryan Bathgate MA (52:59.273)
Yeah. wait, wait. I'm also grateful for my extended family who are just awesome. Yeah, in -law side, the in -law side. Yeah. Yeah.

Chuck (53:09.334)
wow. Okay. That's a new one. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Hello, RF. I see you paying attention. By the way, I appreciate your support. I see you paying attention. Yes. I thought so. I thought so. Yeah. I am.

Ryan Bathgate MA (53:18.953)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. No. And that's exactly 100 percent. That's exactly what I was talking about. Yeah. Yeah. Shout out.

Chuck (53:37.686)
You know, I'm grateful, man, 601 days today. Yeah, thank you, right? So yesterday was a big day. I received a confirmation about a new partner of the show. It's ARC, the Alberta Adolescent Recovery Centre. It was my 600th day. And what that sponsorship did, and I won't put the numbers on the table, but I'll put the idea on the table. Until yesterday.

Ryan Bathgate MA (53:40.873)
Hey!

Good for you.

Chuck (54:06.486)
I had made just enough to pay my bills, but I still needed to lean on family and some donations and the odd hoodie sale to make to eat, right? Is where I had been, right? Yes, in Thailand. So, and it's pretty low cost of living here. Yeah, yeah, right. So it's been a simple life and I'm grateful beyond words for the life I lead right now, but it's always been a struggle. What this new partner has done for me,

Ryan Bathgate MA (54:17.993)
in Thailand.

Ryan Bathgate MA (54:22.025)
That's my point, is by contrast, right? Yeah.

Chuck (54:35.734)
It's probably the most important sponsor I'll ever have because it put me, now it put me just past just being able to pay my bills. It puts me into self -sufficiency for the first time in a very long time. It means that I don't need to ask anybody for help next month, right? Which is massive for me, right? Yeah, yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (54:48.425)
So you've gone from.

Ryan Bathgate MA (54:52.937)
See ya.

Ryan Bathgate MA (54:57.113)
Hold on, we gotta slow down. Let that sink in for a second.

Chuck (55:04.182)
Fuck, I tell you what man, I was in tears for a good portion yesterday when I got to thinking about that. Yeah, yeah, right. And I'm not big on celebrating recovery milestones, as you know. Yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (55:07.465)
600 days.

Ryan Bathgate MA (55:14.505)
I'm not talking about recovery milestones. I'm talking about 600 days of not being, having to humble yourself to ask for help every step along the way. Yes, that's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying.

Chuck (55:23.606)
Yeah, that's hard, right? That is fucking hard. Yeah, yeah, right. So yesterday, being able to say, whoa, you know what, next month, next month I don't have to ask anybody to eat, right? That's a big deal. So I'm pretty grateful for that, you know, right? Yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (55:42.953)
I know, like I said in the beginning, you know, you can't work this hard at something good and not have the outcomes start to happen.

Chuck (55:50.358)
Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. So I'm very, very grateful for that, for that whole experience, which extends, of course, to my existing sponsors, because it's because of them that I'm at a point where I can pay my bills. You know what I mean? The Autocentre here in Thailand and of course, FAR. And more than that, it goes back to Revolution when, you know, they were one of my first sponsors. TWC, you know, was my very first sponsor ever for the show, right?

Ryan Bathgate MA (56:04.553)
Yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (56:14.345)
TWC? Yeah.

Chuck (56:19.126)
I ate off that money for a long time. I really did. So without that, and every single person, every single person that has donated 20 bucks or bought a hoodie or more money or whatever has been a computer. Don't take away from that. I almost lost the ability to work before a couple of very generous women in my life stepped up and helped me purchase that.

Ryan Bathgate MA (56:33.609)
or computer.

Chuck (56:48.726)
There's been so many people that get me to where I am now. And that's the financial aspect. Right? And then you want to talk the mental health, the recovery portion, all of those things, right? Just the social, having connectivity again, you know, that part has just been absolutely amazing. So to be able to say that I'm a self to feel like a man again is a big deal. It's a big deal. And there's a lot of people, a lot of people to be grateful for to get me to that point. So yeah.

Ryan Bathgate MA (56:54.601)
takes a village.

Ryan Bathgate MA (56:59.113)
Mm -hmm.

Ryan Bathgate MA (57:03.561)
Mm -hmm.

Chuck (57:18.966)
That said, I'm also grateful to every single person who continues to like, comment, share, do the things, smash the subscribe button, you know what to do. Every time you do these things, you're getting me a little bit closer to live my best life. My best life is to make a humble living spreading the message. The message is this, if you're in active addiction right now, today could be the day, today could be the day that you start the lifelong journey. Reach out to a friend, reach out to a family member, call in a detox, go to a meeting, pray, go to church, do whatever Ryan's doing these days. I don't care.

Do whatever it is you gotta do to get that journey started, because it is so much better than the alternative. If you have a loved one who's suffering an addiction right now, just take the time to listen to our conversation. Please, just take one more minute of your day and text that person, let them know they're loved. Use the words.

Ryan Bathgate MA (57:59.145)
You are loved.

Chuck (58:00.886)
That little glimmer of hope just might be the thing that brings it back.