247 - RACHAEL PIOLTINI

Chuck LaFLange (00:00.872)
Hello everybody, watchers, listeners, supporters of all kinds. Welcome to another episode of the Ashes to Awesome podcast. I'm your host, Chuck LaFlange. Checking in from Krabi, Thailand, of course, halfway around the world. In Tennessee is my beautiful guest, Rachel from Addict with Purpose. How you doing today, Rachel? As always, that vibe though, that vibe though.

Rachael (00:18.79)
Hey! Happy to be here. Excited, joyful, ridiculously happy, as always.

Chuck LaFLange (00:28.296)
I, you know, people behind the curtain, it's actually been been coming for a long time. I've been trying to get you, you know, nailed down. But, you know, of course, we both got busy lives. Maybe you're somewhere more sold on myself. But, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. This conversation brought to you by ADHD, right? It's one of my it's one of my hashtags nowadays, I think, right? You know, so like, you know what, let's we're going to talk we're going to talk about a bunch of things, but I'm going to talk about ADHD real quick. Just kick this off.

Rachael (00:38.15)
add ADD to that and remembering and remembering.

Rachael (00:45.054)
You

Chuck LaFLange (00:57.704)
Maybe this is something you can relate to or maybe not. So I didn't even know that I had ADHD, not for my whole life, right? When I was 17, and I'm 47 now, so about 30 years ago, my mom had said to me once, like, you know, that she saw on the news there was like 15 symptoms of ADHD. I don't know if you remember this when it was out. You're not as old as I am, so maybe not. But it was a big news story for quite a while. It kind of became a thing where...

And if you have eight of these symptoms, you might want to go get checked for, and assessed or whatever. And she's like, you've got a lot more than seven, so maybe you want to check that out. And I was like, I don't have it. That was literally the last time I thought about it until I got sober. And I was a stimulant user, right? Never into opiates. And then I was with a friend's wife who, whatever, we were driving along and she's like, you don't think you have ADHD? Of course you do.

Like of course you do. And that's why stimulants are your friend for so long, right? It's called the meth. You know, because it works as ADHD meds, right? I was like, my God. you're right, right? And then since then, of course, I've, you know, I've been assessed or whatever, but.

Rachael (02:04.358)
Right?

Chuck LaFLange (02:13.704)
There's a big part of me that for a long time wished didn't even have that conversation, wished I didn't know. Because what it did for me was in my recovery, things are getting tough, the chaos, and ADHD is funny, we all know that. But then there's also, there's that side of it that isn't so funny that we don't have a ton of TikToks about, where it's like, I spend pretty much all day pissed off at myself, and that gets old really fast, right? I'm sure you can relate to how frustrating it can be, right? And...

Rachael (02:39.654)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (02:43.752)
So then I'd be sitting there thinking, I have 40 bucks a phone call away from relief from this. Right? Like all, it was the closest temptation to relapse that I've experienced in my recovery was knowing that I had ADHD and knowing that a $40 bag would make it go, like I would have an absolute, I'd have some respite from the chaos, from the being pissed off at yourself all the time. So I don't know if you can relate to that, but.

Rachael (03:04.134)
Right? Yeah. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (03:08.296)
That was kind of my experience until I got my hands on some medication and I was able to help myself out that way, right? But.

Rachael (03:14.438)
Yeah, no, it was definitely like for me, I got diagnosed as a kid, but my dad wouldn't let us do medicine, which was fine. And it was like, school was always a struggle. And it was still today, I'm all over the place. And I tried the medicine route and then I quickly started to abuse them. I loved it.

Chuck LaFLange (03:33.224)
Yeah. Yeah.

Rachael (03:33.286)
very quickly. I mean, I did very good for about two months and then I was like, man, I could work for 24 hours straight if I just take one every three hours. And now I was back on meds. That was my journey. But.

Chuck LaFLange (03:42.984)
Yeah, yeah. So it did lead to relapse in a different route than what I was talking about, but it absolutely did, right? So that's interesting. That's interesting. Yeah, yeah, right.

Rachael (03:50.502)
100 % did because yeah, yeah, and it did, but I abuse everything I can get my hands on, you know, so now I just, I wouldn't say I'm pissed off. I get, I get annoyed with my 7 ,500 open tabs, but at least I remember now to look at them when I can. And like, I now have mastered putting my keys in the same place. I'm mastering putting.

Chuck LaFLange (03:56.872)
Yeah.

Rachael (04:13.99)
holding my coffee cup. I mean, I don't lose my phone or my keys anymore. And that took a very long time of like, really getting sick of losing my keys and being late for work. Like that is such a real thing. But I'm still all over the place, still totally unorganized, still make 700 to do lists and never look at them because they're in 700 different places. And I've just learned to accept me for who I am.

Chuck LaFLange (04:24.84)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (04:35.784)
I know. I just I just love how people are like you need to make a list. Okay, because I know where there's a pen like come on just settle down fireball with your lists. Okay, right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah

Rachael (04:43.974)
Right? What do I do with the list? Yeah, do what do I do with my list? Remember to look at the list because I have 700 of them. They're every there. I've posted here and here and it's in my pocket and it's it. No, ADD people don't have lists. Well, no, I'm sorry. We have 700 lists. I've tried.

Chuck LaFLange (05:01.48)
Yeah, right. Yeah, I won't even like I just don't bother. Right. I just don't bother because and honestly, I couldn't tell you where there's a pen. No, not a clue. Right. So, you know, it really is. It really is. But so you found other ways to mitigate that then. Is that just trying to discipline yourself to a point like and through repetitiveness or right?

Rachael (05:09.382)
Yeah, it's ridiculous.

Rachael (05:19.942)
Definitely disciplining. I am I'm eating better and I found that eating better definitely helps as well I mean I do drink a ton of coffee, but I think coffee is supposed to help with that. I don't know. Maybe that's it maybe Yeah

Chuck LaFLange (05:33.096)
Well, it's a stimulant, right? Coffee is a stimulant. So yeah, of course it does, right? But it's funny you said that, because I was just going to hone in on your love of coffee might have something to do with.

Rachael (05:39.846)
Yeah.

Rachael (05:47.622)
I do, I love my morning coffee, it's ridiculous. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (05:48.68)
Right? Of course, I know this about you and, you know, maybe the listeners obviously don't, but I know for myself, you know, being in Thailand, if I run to 7 -Eleven and grab like a double shot of espresso out of a can, it's like I get two or three hours, maybe a half a day of like extreme productivity. Right? Like, because it helps me focus so much. Right? Yeah. Absolutely. Right. I don't drink it every day like I used to, but maybe I should be. Maybe that would help. Right.

Rachael (06:06.694)
Yeah?

Rachael (06:10.374)
Yeah, it does. It makes my whole day better.

Rachael (06:18.598)
Yeah, maybe.

Chuck LaFLange (06:18.632)
Because the thing in Thailand, the drug of choice here is meth and another like a spin off of meth called Yaba. And what that's done is it's made for anything stimulant based for medication become very, very hard to get. Right? The government looks at anything stimulant as bad now. So it's made it all but impossible to not not impossible, just there's a lot of barriers, right relative to what there would be at home, you know, right?

Rachael (06:23.973)
Yeah, you were saying that.

Rachael (06:37.638)
Yeah, of course.

Rachael (06:46.022)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (06:47.304)
I mean, you don't need a prescription for penicillin or Viagra, but you like to get your hands on some Ritalin is a really hard thing to do here. So whatever, right? Thailand.

Rachael (06:54.816)
I'm sure. I think that's worldwide now that people have just abused it everywhere. Because I mean, even here in the States now, it is it's more so over the last five years. it you can't get it either here.

Chuck LaFLange (07:10.824)
Yeah, right. Just starting to clamp down on it.

Rachael (07:11.238)
But you would think in Thailand it would be like, and this is very naive, so someone may get pissed off at me for saying it, but you would think in Thailand it'd be like being in Mexico or South America where you just assume, hop the border and you can go get whatever you want. But I think there's regulations now.

Chuck LaFLange (07:26.184)
Yeah, it's very different here, right? Yeah, Thailand's it's not it's not the same as a lot of other countries, especially like South America is very different than Asia is right. A little more control here, I think, than than a lot of South American countries. I don't know. That's maybe speaking to more than than what I do know. So I should probably get back on track. But yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's certainly not like that here at all. Right. There's a lot.

Rachael (07:43.302)
Yeah, yeah, that's it. I'm like, yeah, I don't know anything about it. So don't get mad at me. This is just like, I don't know. I'm just saying, just saying.

Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (07:54.792)
There's a lot of misconceptions about Thailand. Thailand is the only country in this part of the world that was never colonized. Right? So it's a very different country than even other parts of Asia, right? So because you don't have that European influence here, like you do in everywhere, literally everywhere else in Asia, every other country except Thailand. And there's kind of some neat stories about that, but we won't get into that. But anyway.

Rachael (08:01.99)
wow. Yeah.

Rachael (08:11.366)
Mm -hmm.

Rachael (08:16.55)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (08:24.68)
What are you passionate about? You're passionate about homelessness, right? What do you do? Okay, what do you do? Let's start out with how long have you been in recovery? Let's tell you a recovery story instead of your addiction story. And then I'm gonna interrupt it and be kind of rude about it because that's what I do. And we'll go from there. How's that sound? Yeah. Okay.

Rachael (08:34.758)
Yeah, I would love it.

Rachael (08:39.974)
Sure, sure, no, I've had, I mean, I love, and I, you know, we had talked about this on the right, on the pre -show. When people share their story, you get an hour segment of time, and it's usually about 40 minutes of the war story, the trauma, what got you there, and then you get 20 minutes, like, and somebody like me who's got, I'll be seven years, by the grace of God.

Chuck LaFLange (08:58.824)
The blood and guts, the yeah, all that stuff, right? Yeah.

Rachael (09:06.982)
July 30th of this year. And so I've got seven huge, thank you. It still blows me away. It blows me away that I'm turning 45 this year. I'm like, that's insane. Like I just realized I was turning 45 and I'm having a hard time with it.

Chuck LaFLange (09:10.12)
Yeah. Congratulations. Yeah. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (09:19.144)
Okay, so I...

Chuck LaFLange (09:24.008)
I just said, I was just saying, well, you're younger than me, right? But I thought you were much younger than me. I didn't realize you're only two years behind me. So there you go, right? I totally thought, I thought you were mid thirties. I didn't think you were mid forties, right? Yeah, I had no idea. So yeah, hey, looking good. Looking good for mid forties. Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah.

Rachael (09:27.494)
Yeah.

Say that again, you think you what? You what? You thought I was what? No, 44 and two, thank you. I realized, I just did the math. I thought I was turning 44 this year and when I realized it was 45, I was like, my gosh, what am I doing with my life? 45, look at this, the wrinkles are here, they're starting, my eyesight's starting to go. I'm definitely like, this is real now.

all the things that start happening. And, but, so I found recovery, I think when I was 36, 37. And so for the last seven years, I have been able to do, just find my passion. So when I was using, I've always been like a people person and a lover and have that servant heart. So even like active in my addiction, I was always trying to,

Chuck LaFLange (10:00.544)
I understand. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (10:09.576)
OK. Yeah.

Rachael (10:27.654)
doing good by helping keep everybody high for cheaper or for free. Meanwhile, people were like Rachel ruined my life because she was always showing up with the drugs and I'm like I was just bringing them for free. I thought that we all just I had no idea you were I ruined your life right and

Chuck LaFLange (10:31.656)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (10:40.136)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (10:44.68)
Here comes Rachel, the meth fairy sprinkling that shit around.

Rachael (10:48.326)
everywhere! I'm like who needs a hotel room? Who needs a this? Who needs a whatever?

Chuck LaFLange (10:52.968)
Why can't I get here now? Good morning, Spring -

Rachael (10:59.11)
Here we are just everywhere. I thought I was being a great person, right? And the streets ate me up because I've always just been nice. And when I found recovery, it was like when I found it for the real this time, like I've been trying to get sober since I was 2007, like a grace of God. When I got pregnant with my first child, I stopped doing meth, cold turkey, all the things and...

Chuck LaFLange (11:08.456)
Yes. Yeah.

Rachael (11:26.246)
and I was able to stay off of the drugs for a couple of years. But I ended up going back because I didn't work a program, didn't look for a higher power, just kept doing all the things that kept me sick. So when I found recovery this time, I wanted to help other women and men, my friends, find recovery too. And so I became very, very passionate at helping people get into programs. And I was living in Utah prior to here.

And so I literally had dedicated my life to finding whatever resources were out there that maybe would have helped me not have to suffer for so long. So how did we get people on Medicaid? How did we get people into detox? What was sober living? What did that look like? How do we get paid funding or all these different kinds of funding? And I just, that became my big passion because I'm just a helper. Like I just want to help people.

I also learned that I'm a helper to a fault. So, you know, I've also learned I can't get you sober for you. I can provide the resource, but you need to make the calls. You need to do the fundraising. You need to this, because I was doing all this fundraising. I'm doing calling everybody. Do you have a bed? Do you have a bed? I got a guy. I got a this, I got a that. And then it was like, I would, all these things would happen. And these people weren't ready. They didn't show up. And so, I mean, that took years.

Chuck LaFLange (12:28.424)
People pleasing. Yes. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (12:35.432)
Of course.

Chuck LaFLange (12:51.088)
Yeah. Yeah.

Rachael (12:54.342)
You know, people said you got to learn, people had to put skin in the game. And I started to really understand that. Because when you're buying everybody a bus ticket and when you're doing all these things and I'm working a full -time job and that as a free full -time job, it was like something had to give. But if you're crazy, if you want to burn out, if you want to go into burnout and you have to learn those things. And so my passion has become,

Chuck LaFLange (13:11.88)
Well, it's not sustainable, right? This is not. This is not right. So. Yeah.

Rachael (13:25.542)
100 % helping the recovered addict maintain their recovery, but also helping those on the streets and if you know homelessness, going boots on the ground into the homeless camps, going to wherever to offer love, to just go and hug people, show them that they matter and try to...

help them find rec - like plant that seed. You know, today I'm just planting the seeds. I'm not sprinkle fairy meth everywhere.

Chuck LaFLange (13:56.744)
Yes.

Rachael (14:03.206)
But helping people is, I would say is my biggest passion, you know, like, and I'm good at it.

Chuck LaFLange (14:05.608)
Yeah, yeah, right. No kidding, I love that. I love that, I love that you said helping the recovered addict. Attic recovery, I guess is the language we're supposed to use, right? And whatever. Person in recovery, there you go, right? Yeah. Less we get attacked by whatever community, right? Yeah, yeah. And there's a conversation there, we'll touch on this because I just did an episode.

Rachael (14:18.726)
person in recovery would be the right.

I know.

Chuck LaFLange (14:35.336)
yesterday, by the time this airs, a few days ago. And a part of that conversation was about mandated treatment, which is like a hot topic these days. I don't know in the States if it is so much as it is in Canada, but very hot topic. And what you had said is, you know, about people need to be ready. And I'm kind of...

That language, not the way you said it, Rachel, to be clear, but there's a thing that happens there where somebody who's in the throes of a serious opioid addiction does not have use of their prefrontal cortex, the part of their brain that controls our decision making. And we know that through brain imaging, where it's just scientific fact though, which backs up the addiction as a disease argument and those things because.

the front of their brain is turned off. They are incapable of making good choices, right? So to say that somebody has to be ready, that gets us into the mandated treatment argument. It's like, well, but how can you be ready if your brain isn't working? Like, how can that person be ready, right? And that's not to say that we should run around putting all the addicts in a van and running them off and locking them up in treatment somewhere, which is very much not that. But just as...

harm reduction is what a lot of people need, I think mandated has to be one of those tools in the toolbox, right? So, because it's just, there's a spectrum of people with different degrees of this disease and different factors, things that are way outside of, you know, our awareness or most certainly our control, but I think there's an argument being made for it. How do you feel about it or, you know, it's just, yeah.

Rachael (16:06.822)
Yeah.

Rachael (16:26.31)
Listen.

I had tried to get sober technically my very first treatment center I went to I was 15 years old. So I mean, if we go into like, how long have I been trying to get sober from 15 to 36 or 37, whichever one of the two, 20 years, right? I mean, and I want it like, I was forced to go to rehab.

Chuck LaFLange (16:35.56)
Okay.

Chuck LaFLange (16:45.192)
Let's call it 20. Let's call it an even 20, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Rachael (16:53.542)
I was forced to go to jail. I was forced to do programs and all of those times, like I didn't think I had a problem. And so it was like, did I learn a ton of things from them? I have said my whole entire adult life, like I probably survived the streets because of the things that I learned in treatment and not the bad things learning all the, like when you go to jail and you meet the bad people, you know, I did.

Chuck LaFLange (17:19.816)
Yeah, right. Yeah.

Rachael (17:21.83)
plenty of that. I think I learned some survivor skills through that, you know, but, but I didn't think it was bad enough. And, and that's what like mandated treatment can work. Like Camille in our group chat, she went to jail once at like 19, 20 years old and she's been 13 years sober now. Like that scared her enough.

Chuck LaFLange (17:34.856)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (17:40.808)
wow, right. Yeah, yeah.

Rachael (17:44.902)
Jail didn't scare me, I just hated it. You know what I mean? So the mandated thing, yes, I think it can be great, but if the person doesn't see that they have a problem.

Chuck LaFLange (17:47.24)
Yeah. I know what you mean. Yeah. Yeah.

Rachael (17:59.686)
they're just going to talk the talk to get themselves out of it more than likely. That's what I did. I mean, I have a lot of finally, I got sick and tired of being sick and tired and I wanted to see my kids and all the things where it was like, I have a problem. I want to get better because it's also a don't tell me what to do kind of thing, right? Don't tell me what I need to do. You got to rehab.

Chuck LaFLange (18:04.232)
Fair enough, right? Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (18:16.616)
Yes.

Yes. So, and that is kind of the common argument for it. And I don't mean to generalize what you're saying because your journey is yours, it's unique, and it's quite frankly, it's incredible. But somebody, so even me, and I've only got 19 months in now. So even me, because I wasn't on opioids, opiates, sorry, and...

Rachael (18:30.758)
You're not generalizing, you're fine.

Chuck LaFLange (18:47.816)
And yourself too, like you're a stimulant person, right? If I remember your story correctly, right? Or anybody that's been sober for longer than five, maybe 10 years at the outside has never experienced what's happening right now with fentanyl.

Rachael (18:50.79)
Yeah. Yeah.

Rachael (19:02.054)
yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (19:02.952)
You know what I mean? So like when you see somebody bent over and half sideways on the street, you know, who's dirty and unkept and those things and who gets an arc and immediately goes to get high again after dying and being brought back to life. Immediately like seconds like I need to get high right now. To tell me that we're going to wait for that person.

Rachael (19:20.07)
it's awful.

Chuck LaFLange (19:29.704)
to tell me they're ready or that they have capacity to even make that choice for themselves, they don't. And that's where I think, again, in a lot of cases, no. It's not the thing you need. In a lot of cases, maybe some harm reduction to get there, maybe we're just gonna wait it out, whatever. But in some cases, it's the thing that we need to do, I think. And the challenge is that it's been so polarized.

Rachael (19:33.446)
They don't. No.

Rachael (19:49.958)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (19:59.72)
Right? You're either harm reduction or you're at this extreme other end of it or abstinence, 100 % abstinence, right? But the thing is different people are somewhere else on a different scale. So.

Rachael (20:12.934)
Well, and I'll tell you this, like, so when I, my journey started when fentanyl was getting popular, cause we were like, when I was peddling pills, the people would ask me, are they pressed with fentanyl or the other ones? And I'm like, I mean, I, I can get you both. They're like, get the Fetty ones, get the Fetty ones. So it was definitely, I know I'm alive today because I went to jail and I would be dead. Well, I, well, I was going to federal prison and God got in the way.

But I would definitely, I would be dead. And it's crazy because when I'm out there on the streets and we're doing the homeless camp, those exact things you talk about, these people are like, yes, I want to get saved, right? I'm ready, but they're so freaking scared of the unknown. You know what I mean? It's like, okay, yeah, I'll go to treatment, but what am I going to do after? Then what? Give me treatment. What am I?

Chuck LaFLange (21:02.696)
Yep. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (21:07.912)
Hmm, right.

Rachael (21:09.318)
Where am I going after 30 days? And nobody wants to do a one year program. So I mean, I get it. I understand. It's so hard.

Chuck LaFLange (21:11.832)
And yeah, right, right. And so there's another, let's bounce into that. You do all this work to get somebody from the streets and into treatment, like helping them, you know, three year outreach or whatever, just being there for when they're ready, whatever. You get into treatment and then what? Right, you just touched on that, like what happens after treatment, you know? Yeah, yeah.

Rachael (21:37.446)
If they even stay, you know, like I always have this thing. It's like getting somebody to treatment is like getting, no, getting somebody to say yes to go to detox is like getting engaged, right? It's like, it may happen. Getting somebody to go to detox and stay for the seven days, they got married. Getting somebody to go from detox into treatment, they made it to their honeymoon.

Chuck LaFLange (21:52.552)
Yeah.

Rachael (22:04.006)
You know what I mean? I'm like, these are just some rare things that, and that's so sad, but it is, it's scary. Yeah. It's, it's scary, you know?

Chuck LaFLange (22:04.32)
I love that. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a great metaphor for sure for the entire process, right? So and of course the system is very different in the United States than it is in Canada, right? With our healthcare system. So there's all the cost, right? Like do you have insurance, private pay, you know, there's all that stuff that's involved, right? Which is brutally hard to navigate as I understand it.

So people like yourself with some knowledge about those resources are so important. So important, right? In that outreach. So are you able to talk about work? What you're doing exactly? Yeah, yeah. What are you doing at work? Yeah.

Rachael (22:40.774)
Yeah.

Rachael (22:47.398)
Sure, yeah, yeah. So I work for this really amazing company, it's called First Hand, and we are, like, United Healthcare pays us to give people in recovery from serious mental illness. And then the things that follow, and people who are abusing the ER because of their mental illness, the job is to help them find recovery.

and we only target people on receiving Medicaid. So we're getting the low, the forgotten about people, you know, some of them are homeless. We thought we were gonna have more homeless, but in Tennessee, like the stipulations to be getting Medicaid are so hard, it's just whatever. But we just, we help people. Right, yeah, right. And then trying to get these guys.

Chuck LaFLange (23:34.088)
Well, there's another issue, right? Yeah.

Rachael (23:39.334)
If they're on social security, how do you get somebody that's getting Medicare into a treatment program? Because nobody will take them because they don't have treatment provided. It's so hard. I mean, there's just, it's, it's hard. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, but I'm peer support is what my job title is. Like just a recovery support specialist, helping people and trying to help people find recovery.

Chuck LaFLange (23:49.576)
Yeah, yeah, I'm kidding. Barriers, barriers, barriers and more barriers, right? Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (24:01.64)
I love that. I love that job title. And I think if I was if I was back in North America, that would be that'd be what I was doing. Right? Most certainly, right? You know, right? So of course, I moved here so I could afford to do this full time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's that's an amazing like how blessed am I to

Rachael (24:09.126)
yeah. Yeah.

Rachael (24:14.822)
Right? Right? And you can off the pennies that you get. Hopefully you're making more than pennies soon.

Chuck LaFLange (24:27.56)
to be here and living this and doing this full time. And you know, it's a lot of work as you know, you know, we've talked plenty about that, right? But I think what you're doing is wonderful. It disturbs me though, and I'm gonna zone in on it. Maybe I shouldn't do this zone in on the negative, but I'm gonna anyway. The people that don't have Medicaid can't get Medicaid because they don't have an address or whatever, right? And then that's a problem.

Rachael (24:51.782)
Well, there's qualified like you have to have a kid or you have to be Tennessee is a very red state. And so it's not it's just unfortunate. They won't do what's called expansion, which is, I mean, there's so many people need stuff. And so it's it's it but other places like when I was in Utah, everybody could get Medicaid. It was wonderful Chicago, New York, California. I mean, it's just

Chuck LaFLange (24:56.104)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (25:07.56)
Yeah, yeah, right.

Rachael (25:18.694)
that becomes all about politics and what are the people voting for and who's in office. So it's, we want, it is unfortunate because some people want to help and others are like, I want my money to go towards something else.

Chuck LaFLange (25:24.52)
That's unfortunate, that's unfortunate, right. That's, yep.

Chuck LaFLange (25:32.472)
So, and I'll talk about that. Dr. Lisa is my co -host who I'm sure you've seen anyway. I know you haven't had a chance to meet. Well, we'll do that one of these days. But she often talks about a study that's been repeated in many countries around the world. Every dollar you put into treatment for addiction comes back to society six to ten times. If you can imagine, right? The costs, the savings to the penal system, savings to the judicial system, to the police.

Rachael (25:38.95)
Yes.

Yeah, I would love to.

Rachael (25:53.542)
Wow. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (26:01.96)
to healthcare, to everything. Like it's amazing. Yeah, right? But seriously, right? And those studies don't even take into effect the offshoots, the indirect costs that come as a result of addiction, right? So to people that when it is all about the money and I'm not that person, you're not that person, but there's a massive portion, roughly half the population, it does come down to money, right? Even to those people.

Rachael (26:05.19)
Distors.

Rachael (26:15.27)
Right?

Chuck LaFLange (26:32.328)
If we had the patients to invest in this a little bit longer term, you would see that it's actually financially, it's the responsible thing to do is to help people get into treatment. It is very much, you know, the responsible thing to do, right? So just for the money, even if you don't have a bleeding heart like you or me, just for the money, it makes sense to get people into treatment, right? So it's disturbing and frustrating sometimes to have these arguments, but that's the othering. As Mike from the Yachter Treatment Center here calls it, he's like, that's the othering.

Rachael (26:41.766)
Absolutely.

Rachael (26:51.462)
Right?

Chuck LaFLange (27:00.776)
That's their problem. It's their thing. It's not going to happen to me. That's that's a personal favorite of mine. Right thing. you poor thing. Right. Yeah. You know, wait till it's your kids, you know, because that does happen and happens all the damn time. Right. You know, right. So.

Rachael (27:00.998)
Right?

Rachael (27:07.682)
Yeah. Right.

Rachael (27:14.534)
Right, well, and it just goes along with like people who think addicts don't deserve to be Narcan. And, you know, like there are people, I'll put a Narcan post up and just be completely disgusted at people saying, let them die. Let them die? Let them die? Are you a human being right now? Like let them die? You can't find recovery if you're dead.

Chuck LaFLange (27:34.152)
Yeah, right. Yeah, right.

Chuck LaFLange (27:39.56)
Yes, right. Yep.

Rachael (27:41.926)
But then it goes back to that thing we're talking about. When are you going to be ready? Because people are getting Narcan over and over again, but that's how powerful addiction is. You know what I mean? That is the powerful part. Right? Right.

Chuck LaFLange (27:50.984)
Yes, right? Like you can't, that is not a healthy person making those choices to go like, it's just not, right? I'll tell you something that I started doing Rachel. I don't know if I've ever showed you this or told you about it. When somebody makes that comment, let them die, or it's their choice, they chose that. I'll go to their Facebook profile and find a picture of them and their kids. And I will blur out the faces of the kids because I'm not a total asshole. And I'll reply with a comment and says, if it was them, would you say that?

Rachael (28:00.198)
Tell me.

Rachael (28:14.438)
Right?

Rachael (28:19.398)
Right? Right? You work so great. At least you blur the faces out. But.

Chuck LaFLange (28:20.264)
I want to get people lit up.

Yeah, and I don't have to write. They're like, I'm going to call my local police. That's a go ahead. I did that as a courtesy to you, right? Because I have a bigger heart than you do, obviously. Right. But right. But yeah. yes.

Rachael (28:30.278)
Go ahead, I'm in Thailand. Right. Right. It's just so judgmental and naiveness, like uneducated. Like these people, they do not deserve to die. They're still somebody's child. They're still somebody's family member. They need help. They're just mentally ill. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (28:44.808)
Absolutely. They're loved and they love, right? Yeah, right? You know, it's a disease of the brain. So, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's move into the next topic. I'm just pulling them out of the air as we go here, but I'm going to pull up the meme. Of course, we talked about it already, but I'm gonna pull up the meme so I'm reading it correctly, right? Word for word here. So I posted a meme the other day that said, let me get this straight.

The recovery community has spent the last 100 years trying to legitimize addiction as a disease. Then that same community shames people for treating that disease with medication prescribed by a doctor to the point where people feel the need to hide it from that community. So that's the meme. Of course, you shared it as well. So you're more than versed in it, but for the benefit of the audience. And of course, that's speaking to Matt, methadone, suboxone, whatever, sublicate.

whatever, whatever MAT treatment we're going to talk about, right? But I think the recovery community, there's a subset of the recovery community that has failed drastically. There was a comment somebody posted on one of my posts a while back. And I won't say it, I won't quote it directly, because I don't remember. But the essence of it was is that,

they were saying that to them, the recovery community is one of the most toxic things they've ever come across. They've spent years trying to get to where they are. They've almost died 100 times and they can't find fellowship because people think that what they're doing is not valid. Right. And it was just, that's heartbreaking. Right. If one person feels that way, we have fucked up. Sorry for the language. We have failed, right. We have failed as a community. And I think,

Rachael (30:21.958)
Yeah, it's wrong. It's wrong.

Rachael (30:31.526)
We are.

Chuck LaFLange (30:36.072)
What bothers me is that these days, if you shame another human being for their path being different, and they go back out, the odds of them coming back are less than they've ever been in the history of mankind. Right? Like it's not like it was 20 years ago where they're gonna go get drunk and they're gonna get another fight with their wife and they're gonna lose their job. Now, if somebody goes back out, they die. Right? You know? And I don't know if you wanna touch on that. I...

Rachael (30:57.446)
No, they're dying. You're dying, right? No, they're dying.

Chuck LaFLange (31:04.2)
Obviously we know how I feel on it. I think I know how you feel, but I won't put words in your mouth, so. Go ahead.

Rachael (31:07.942)
Well, so, and there's this expression that just kind of came to mind when you said that, and it, in recovery and in the rooms and in the communities, we are not supposed to be the judge and the jury. And that's what people are doing. We are judging and we are being the jury and we're convicting people. And it's like, we came here to learn, to love and to heal, and we're judging.

every single thing somebody's doing. He came in with his shirt wrinkly, let's talk about what he's doing. He's the, now, dude, listen, if you're on Suboxone and you're in a meeting and you're doing the freaking nod nod, you might need, you might need to figure some things out. But if you're living a completely healthy life, you're going to school, you have full custody of your parents, or you're going to work every day, you're hitting all these family events, you're living the life that you dreamed of.

Chuck LaFLange (31:50.216)
Yeah, yeah, right.

Rachael (32:04.902)
when you were out there using Kilt -Back on a freaking park bench, who am I to judge what's working for you? I know plenty of people who drink a glass of wine here and there, smoke some medical cannabis that takes a box in, and their lives are wonderful. If you're not a...

Chuck LaFLange (32:10.152)
Yeah, exactly, exactly, right, yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (32:26.376)
Yeah.

Rachael (32:27.75)
If you're active in your disease and you're abusing, that's a whole different story. But we're not to be the judge and jury. And that's what the rooms are doing. They are judging, they're judging and they're pushing people at, they're killing people. And people are dying.

Chuck LaFLange (32:39.592)
Yeah, you're right. And it sounds dramatic to maybe some, especially if people aren't involved in the community, that sounds dramatic, I think. To me, it doesn't, though, 100%. If somebody goes back out, they die, and it happens. Something that I've said lately a lot is that we are experiencing death at a higher rate than anything in human history outside of war and plague.

Rachael (32:52.326)
Now they're dying.

Chuck LaFLange (33:06.76)
Nothing has done what fentanyl is doing to society that wasn't a war or a plague. Right? So why the hell are we acting like, why are we, why are we not acknowledging that and changing our behaviors? Right? And I appreciate that maybe that community has been that way for a hundred years and you know, they've got these rigid, some people have this rigid thing, but excuse me.

Rachael (33:07.238)
It's insane.

Rachael (33:11.334)
Right?

Rachael (33:19.942)
Right?

Chuck LaFLange (33:32.392)
The spirit of everything that is said in those traditions was not meant to be left leaving people shamed and pushed out. It's the one place you can find fellowship easily. Right? Have you been to a meeting? Is the instant response from everybody in recovery or not, that is, have you been to a meeting? Right? Can you get to a meeting? Are you going to meetings? It's become as, you know, it's...

Rachael (33:46.886)
Right?

Chuck LaFLange (34:01.256)
Whatever, it is the thing that people do. It's the place people go to look for fellowship. And if you can't find it there, come on, right? Like it's just not okay. It's just not right, you know? So.

Rachael (34:10.854)
Right? Right?

Yeah, it's a very judgmental space and I know so many people who have gone out who are so afraid to come back because of that, because of the shame, because of that. I mean, we've talked about recovery dates and people don't want to come back because they don't want to lose their dates. I mean, and I'm not saying those things are wrong. Like I cherish my recovery date, but I work, but, and I share it, but I also understand like the times I relapsed.

I didn't want to do the walk of shame and people disappear on you and people are dying, you know, and that's just the truth.

Chuck LaFLange (34:46.12)
Yeah, they do. Right.

Yes, right. Yeah, yeah, it is. It is. And I love that. Yeah, I love that you brought up recovery dates, right? And you saw me when I said 19 months, I had to like, I actually looked at the bottom of my screen to see, right, what the date was, because I just I, I really don't keep track of it. Right? I don't. I do when it's coming up on a date. And I you know, and I know the date because it's the day my father died. But I'm like, I just want to live for today. I don't even want to like, I don't want to count. I just want to like today's day, man. Right. So.

Rachael (35:00.166)
Ha!

Rachael (35:04.742)
Yeah.

Rachael (35:15.91)
Just love your day.

Chuck LaFLange (35:17.)
Yeah, you know, so I've kind of taken on a different thing. That said, I'm real cocky about it until I was like two weeks away from my first, from my one year. And then all of a sudden I was like, now I'm counting, aren't I? Right. So yeah, I can, I can talk all this shit. I can talk all I want about, I don't count recovery dates. Right. And then tell you what, you know, coming up two weeks, it was like, it was like two weeks to the day. Right. Yeah. Right. Absolutely. I started counting in a hurry.

Rachael (35:30.278)
Ha ha ha ha!

Rachael (35:39.814)
There's some pride and you should have it, yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (35:44.392)
tell you that much, right? And it was really funny, so much in that day. It was a Saturday, so it was a weekend ramble day for me. And a guest, unknowing that that was my day, that was my anniversary, had backed out last minute. So there I was left on my one year date without anybody to do my episode with. And I was really like, I was bummed out, right? So I actually Chantel from Trap House Testimonies, I zoned in on her as like, Hey, Chantel.

Rachael (35:44.582)
Hmm. Right.

Rachael (36:08.646)
I know.

Chuck LaFLange (36:12.584)
I need you to step up, it's by one year and I got nobody, so she jumped right on. Isn't she though? Isn't she? She's messaging me right now. She's about to go on the news actually. Yeah, she's going live in 40 minutes. Yeah, yeah, so yeah, good for her, right? But I absolutely love Chantelle. And she's from the same part of the world as me. So actually the trap house in Trap House Testimonies was a block away from the last place I lived, right? So like, yeah, we barely missed each other on the streets kind of thing. You know, we were like a few months kind of separated from each other.

Rachael (36:13.606)
Yeah, she's so great. Yeah, she is.

Yay! Get it, girl!

Rachael (36:34.374)
that's cool.

Rachael (36:39.142)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (36:42.12)
And my mom's a huge fan of Chantelle. So she's the one that that connected us. Okay, I'll tell you a funny story. Tell you a funny story about her. There's somebody who shares her name in like in the same city that that we were both in neither like she doesn't live there now neither do I. There's somebody that shares her name exactly. Right? Well, the first name might be spelled different. So when my mom said to me, have you checked out the Chantelle? I was like, I know her. And like, no, that's bad news.

Rachael (36:44.806)
She's great.

Chuck LaFLange (37:11.752)
Like no, she's like, no, it can't possibly be. I'm like, mom, I'm telling you, right? Like six months ago, you know, like there was a, like there was a thing that happened and like, no, no, I want nothing to do with that as it turns out. And so when I talked to Chantel, she was, you know, we figured it out that yeah, yeah, it was a different person. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Who knew? Right. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So, well, maybe she is now. I hope she is. Right. I don't know. But yeah. Yeah. Right. But it was kind of a funny situation. When I first,

Rachael (37:27.59)
There is another one. There's another her, but it's not her and she's not well. I hope so too. And we'll pray on that.

Chuck LaFLange (37:41.192)
reached out to Chantelle, she was in the middle of absolute chaos in her life. And she wasn't sure who I was. So she was like, it took me a long time to connect with her. But then once we did, we became, you know, we talk daily now, right? So yeah, yeah, yeah, I love her. She's just got this. Yeah. She's got a unique brand, hey? Yeah, right. Like some of the things she says are just, you know, I actually made a GIF. I made a GIF of my Phoenix doing this, putting the hand over the eyes, right? At one point.

Rachael (37:52.454)
Yeah, that's cool. She's great. She's doing, I love her. I love to follow her. Yeah.

Et tu?

Rachael (38:07.75)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (38:08.424)
This is like for Chantel and it said FFS Chantel right for FK Chantel. I've since lost it somewhere in my computer but yeah. She is, she is. I love her to death, right? What else? What else you want to talk about? Well, we got each other's attention. What's next?

Rachael (38:11.91)
Yeah. Yeah. She gets it. She's raw. Yeah.

Rachael (38:25.222)
I think that like, let's just.

I don't know. Blessings, like my wife, we could talk just about the joys and like some wins that I've had over the past seven years. Yeah, well, and so very small backstory. I have been homeless multiple times because of my addiction. My family deserted me. When I got sober this time, it was like everybody told my mom, Rachel's gonna get out of jail and do the exact same thing she always does.

Chuck LaFLange (38:37.608)
Yeah, let's do that. Let's do that. Yes. Yes.

Rachael (38:57.654)
So you gotta just let her go back to the streets. I mean, when we tell you, everybody gave up on me and God told my mom this was different. And it was. And so I went from full on supervised visits with my kids to having zero custody. Like during COVID, I regained full custody of my children, which was huge. My kid's dad had full custody. I was able to move across the country with them.

Chuck LaFLange (39:21.736)
Yeah.

Rachael (39:26.342)
and everybody knows that they're safe. Like these little joys, like I posted it this morning, like I wish I could sleep in, right? I have a three day weekend. I wanna sleep till nine o 'clock, one day of my freaking life, but it's not gonna ever happen. Cause I have this blessing that I get to take my 15 year old to work on the weekends. And at 6 .45, I'm waking up and I'm going and driving her to McDonald's. And it's like, I'll lose.

Chuck LaFLange (39:49.448)
I'm kidding, eh?

Rachael (39:56.134)
I'll, I never go back to sleep there. I'm not that lucky person that could come home after that and go back to sleep and take a nap. That just ain't my world. but these little blessings that I have today, like going and picking my kids up, my kid, you know, two weeks ago, three weeks ago, crashed her car just up the street from my house. I think you guys were a part of that whole thing. but I was sober.

Chuck LaFLange (39:58.664)
hahahahah

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (40:19.464)
Yeah, yes, yes.

Rachael (40:23.974)
You know, it was Friday night, it was 1030 at nighttime and old me would have missed all of that. I wouldn't have answered the phone because I would have been drunk and ridiculous. I wouldn't have been able to jump in my car and go and save her in the scariest moment of her life. I mean, it was so funny. I have COPD and I'm like running down the street. I'm like trying to break it. I'm like, this isn't working and this isn't working and all these like cricks. But that was the worst part of it. Like.

Chuck LaFLange (40:40.008)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (40:44.52)
hahahahah

Chuck LaFLange (40:51.816)
Yeah.

Rachael (40:52.358)
I was 100 % healthy and I went into those scariest, I mean her car spun like four times. I mean that lady who hit her when it was going, it was crazy. And like I have all these little things that I get to do today. Like my kids used to know the mom who said, I'm gonna come pick you up and go school shopping and then never hear from me again because I was in jail. And then they had the mom who was always calling from jail and if somebody would let me talk to them, I was just.

Chuck LaFLange (41:15.4)
Yeah. Yeah.

Rachael (41:22.086)
Dereck Lee balling because I loved them so much like ridiculous like nobody should have let me talk to them because I was crying it must have been so hard for them and like it just awful and my kid today was like Mama mama she's so sweet. Just what do you want to do for Memorial weekend? I know you're gonna be home alone and she has her little boyfriend She wants to go hang out with and she's like I want to make sure I spend some time with you

Chuck LaFLange (41:30.888)
No kidding, right? Yeah.

Rachael (41:48.87)
before she goes and leaves me for the whole freaking weekend. But you know, but she, those are joys. Like people depend on me today to show up. Like I get a car that I drive to and from work. It's like a 2024 Nissan Sentra. It's like souped up turbo edition. It's so dope, right? I have a credit card for my company that they trust me with. I mean, there's a spending limit on there.

Chuck LaFLange (41:53.16)
Ha ha ha ha.

Chuck LaFLange (42:08.008)
nice.

Chuck LaFLange (42:15.432)
Yeah.

Rachael (42:17.51)
They don't trust us all that much, but that's fine. I never go over my limit. They trust me to have this vehicle. They trust me with laptops and things. That's huge for me because I couldn't even keep a phone at one point. I couldn't, yeah, because somebody was stealing it and something bad was always happening. And I went from this world of misery to like...

Chuck LaFLange (42:17.736)
Obviously. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (42:32.712)
Yeah, right, right. Yeah.

Rachael (42:44.678)
I'm the most ridiculously happiest person in the whole entire world and it...

Chuck LaFLange (42:47.08)
Well, it is that vibe that kind of drew me to you to say the least, right? Off the get -go. Yeah, yeah, I do love that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Rachael (42:54.15)
Yeah, and I just am. And like at work, some of the girls are always like, Rachel, why are you so happy? Like, I have my children, I have a job, I have a home, I know I'm getting, I'm gonna go buy food or spend money on whatever I want. I can take it. My life is wonderful today, even with a bad record. Like now I get paid just to have, they're like, I'm like, I have some things on my record.

Chuck LaFLange (43:05.864)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (43:14.76)
Yes. Yeah.

Rachael (43:22.086)
Do you guys could do a background check? And they're like, we're a peer support. We're aware. We know you're gonna have a record. It's fine. Yeah. And so I mean, they're just blessing, blessing after blessing. Like people trust me today. Like I can go in a room and people aren't holding their purse. People aren't scared. I mean, they do. Some people judge me with the tattoos and all, but like, it's a different type of thing.

Chuck LaFLange (43:26.152)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You wouldn't be much of a peer if you didn't, let's be honest, right? So yeah, yeah, right, yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (43:47.624)
Yeah, whatever. Yeah. Yeah, for certain it is right.

Rachael (43:50.662)
You know, now they're just like, but it's, it's still, and I'm like, it's getting worse. We're getting more, you know.

Chuck LaFLange (43:58.824)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Right. It's funny that you mentioned that I know, for me, of course, I don't have anybody trusting me with a bunch of stuff, because it's just logistically, it's not a part of my life. However, for a correlation there, my mother, I never like, I wouldn't ask my money, my mom for 20 bucks for most of my for my entire life ever. Right. For her, like to lend me money now.

you know, there was a time a few months back, I needed 600 bucks for rent like today, didn't even hesitate just lent it to me and I paid her back in two days. Whoo, the feeling the feeling for that was just, what an amazing thing to experience, right? What a difference. And just to have the family willing to help me out. And my mom does often these days because you know, it's it's a grind where I'm at, right. But just to have her be like, well, yeah, right. But I still if I need help, like there has to be a three page text.

Rachael (44:38.022)
Right?

Chuck LaFLange (44:56.136)
you know, because I'm still like, I still feel like guilty asking for it. And you know, like, no, I've done this, I've done this. And she's like, whatever, man, right? Most of the time she sends it without even acknowledging that I sent her the message, right? It's just like, whatever. Yeah, yeah, it's a wonderful thing, right? You know, that the relationships, the friends and family that you get back, it's just all, it's a wonderful thing, right? So, yeah.

Rachael (44:56.166)
Hehehehe.

Rachael (45:07.334)
Awesome. Yeah. Yeah.

Rachael (45:15.75)
It is, and it takes time. The first couple years is gonna drive me nuts, my necklace tangling. It took years before my dad and I could sit down in the same room, before he could trust that I was not gonna go disappear on my children and come home and lash out on the kids. And my twin sister and I, it took her and I years to, I mean, it was years. I hurt them for 20 years.

Today my dad will give me his car to go drive to Orlando. He'll give me his whole entire freaking wallet with all his credit cards, whatever's in it. And he's like, go to the store and use my card. I'm like, I can use my card. And he's like, no, use mine. And I'm like, he's giving me the whole wallet. Like, and the 2024 freaking F -150. Like, should I come back? Yes, I'm coming back. You know?

Chuck LaFLange (45:46.152)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (45:53.288)
whatever energy. Yeah. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (46:08.36)
Yeah.

Rachael (46:14.918)
And it used to be like, we're talking like, follow me to the bathroom. Everybody's listening and they have their cameras out to take pictures of what I look like to send the whole entire family to just talk about how sick I was to, to where I am today. Like I'm in their home. They're in Montreal right now. Like I'm here and they don't, they know I'm not going to have crazy parties. They're coming home to a house and it's.

Chuck LaFLange (46:28.072)
UGH

Chuck LaFLange (46:39.844)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rachael (46:42.854)
It's a beautiful place. Like this time they didn't even tell, well, we also live in another state, but they didn't tell me, don't bring friends over. They didn't tell me all the other rules because they now know like, I just live a normal human, yes, normal human being life. Like I'm just not out running them up, moving people in while they're gone. It's a good place to be.

Chuck LaFLange (46:54.856)
You're just gonna, yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It's right. And it's important that you said that though it does take time. Because it took a long time to break that trust. It took a long time to get to the point where they were listening at the bathroom or they were, you know, doing those other things. So, and it's in...

What's more, and I'll speak, because this show does speak to the families quite a bit, and it's for the families. And something that I've had to come to terms with is that no matter what, for the rest of my mother's life, she is going to worry a little bit. Right? And she has to, right? And how unfair that is. And if you think about the years when I was in it, and this is most of my life, one way or another, right?

Rachael (47:40.174)
Yes.

Chuck LaFLange (47:52.584)
When I'm clean, I get a break from it. And everybody gets to be proud of me like right now, like I have this podcast, everybody's happy. And you know, and they're proud and they're supportive and all those things. And I get to feel great. My mom's still worrying. If I relapse, I get to take a break from all the shitty feelings because I get high. That's how I cope with shitty feelings. So I get a break from it. Really. And my mom goes and do a different kind of stress and worry. So it's...

For our parents and our loved ones in general, there's a trauma there that happens over the course of sometimes decades that is so real and might not ever go away. It mitigates over time. Like you said, your parents now, they don't even, they leave and they don't have to give you the warnings or they give you the car, they give you the wallet. But somewhere in the back of their mind, they're always going to be concerned, right? A good example of this, Rachel, when I left for Thailand, there was two days, like I went into the city,

to go visit some friends and there's two like whatever my phone died and I was super super super tired and whatever I passed out it's like it was like a day and a half where I just didn't communicate with anybody holy cow right dr lisa called me 25 or 30 times in that time and I didn't even I didn't even what's funny is I didn't even realize it till like weeks later that she had called that many times my mom was flipping out

Rachael (49:04.326)
Yeah, I bet.

Chuck LaFLange (49:17.768)
So when I woke up and I turned my phone on, I was like, my God. I go, my God, my God. The old me would have been defensive and shitty about that. But then it occurred to me, I was like, I'll never take that for granted again. These people are worried because they love me. Right? Like, yes. And it's like, I couldn't get mad at that. There's no way I can get mad at that. I'm like, I'm sorry to you that like, I'm really sorry. I did not mean to stress you out that way, right?

Rachael (49:35.942)
Isn't that amazing?

Chuck LaFLange (49:46.696)
To me, it didn't seem like it was a big deal, but it was a big deal. And it took me a long time to make that a big deal. And that's something that I have to be aware of and acknowledge, right? So, yeah, yeah.

Rachael (49:57.222)
Well, and the truth is addiction is real and when people disappear because of a relapse we disappear for a reason and so, you know Seven years from now Chuck. I'm pretty sure nobody's gonna be calling you 35 times because you didn't answer You know what I mean, but right now it's it's still Getting to know this version of you

Chuck LaFLange (50:05.832)
Yeah. Right.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Rachael (50:22.47)
And people, and yes, they're gonna worry. They're always gonna worry, but they're gonna worry in a different light because the new memories and the new feelings and the new things have all created themselves to where that fear has been replaced with different types of things. Now it's just gonna be a, did you get in a car accident? Not a, did you go out and relapse? Or a bike accident? Did somebody steal? You know what I mean? And that takes time to get there though. But it's...

Chuck LaFLange (50:27.88)
Yes.

Chuck LaFLange (50:42.356)
Yeah, I do. I do. I do. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And the irony, the irony, and we talked about this just before I hit record. For years, for the last two years of active addiction, it was the perceived lack of connection was the boot on my neck. Right? It was me thinking that I wasn't loved worse feeling than I wasn't lovable. That kept me in addiction.

Rachael (51:02.758)
Mm -hmm. Yes.

Chuck LaFLange (51:10.44)
Right? Because you're just so ashamed and so, and you have a way to deal with those shitty feelings. And, you know, that turns into this snake eating its tail thing. And so the irony is that look how loved I am. Right. But addiction doesn't want you to think that way. Addiction doesn't want you to know that you're loved. Right. Certainly doesn't want you to feel lovable because it gets to stick around if you don't feel those things. Right. So, yeah. Yeah.

Rachael (51:11.302)
Yeah.

Rachael (51:29.99)
Right.

Right, right, and it can reel you back in so quickly. Because it just takes one little thing. I mean, and you know this, like this positive outlook on life is so important and gratitude and those daily things because it takes one negative thing to fester and it's like a black hole.

Chuck LaFLange (51:36.136)
yeah. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (51:52.552)
Absolutely.

Rachael (51:52.678)
It is a black hole that if you feed that sucker, you are going down and down and down. And it is a mindset of, I'm not going to let that take control of me anymore. I am powerless over that. I can't get that. That will not control me. Whatever your feeling processes and it can get dark real quick. And we have the power to, to overcome that. That that's hard in itself.

Chuck LaFLange (52:02.856)
100%.

Chuck LaFLange (52:08.808)
Yes, yes, absolutely it is.

Yes, yes. Yeah, you just did a perfect thing. Brings us to my favorite part of the show. That's the daily gratitudes. So like boom, you just handled the segue for me. Look at that. So what you got for some daily gratitude today, Rachel?

Rachael (52:23.174)
Huh. Yes. Yes. Yeah.

My gratitude list is endless. I'm grateful for my job. I'm grateful for my kids, for my dog. I'm grateful today that I know, you know, for my spirituality. I'm grateful for friends like you, who I know I can trust to tell me what time it is. I drove Chuck Nuts. When do we go on? Tell me the exact minute. How long is it? 45 minutes from now? But I'm grateful for real authentic

Chuck LaFLange (52:49.032)
hahahaha

Rachael (52:59.878)
Friendships, you know, like we've created that with our little group of people we have like Haley Lord knows I'm so freaking grateful for her. I'm just I'm just grateful for the people that I've met even more so I mean in the last seven years I've met so many amazing people but right now in my journey, I'm Grateful for the ones that are here and they're present because they're changing my life It's just amazing

Chuck LaFLange (53:09.992)
Yes.

Chuck LaFLange (53:26.664)
Yeah, every day. I'm going to echo one there for Haley. Haley specifically, and for so much, but Haley specifically getting that news the other day, not needing a liver. And for anybody who's not familiar with that, and I'm sure many of you are not, 499 days of sobriety, believing she needs a liver transplant, waiting for that, and the stress that goes along with it to finding out she no longer needs a liver transplant. Can you?

Rachael (53:33.638)
Right.

Yes, yes.

Rachael (53:55.206)
Amazing.

Chuck LaFLange (53:56.392)
Can you imagine the overwhelming sense of relief and gratitude that comes with that? When I read that, it was like instant tears of just like, really? How amazing is that? And did you see her response to me, the message? Next time you doubt if there's a God, he's real, right? Just like, wow. How am I gonna, yeah. Yeah.

Rachael (54:02.918)
Ugh.

Rachael (54:10.118)
It is beautiful.

Yes, I loved it. Yes. Right, I guess so. I mean, she end stage liver disease and zero liver with no chance of it regenerating and like some miraculous miracle her liver's coming back and that it's a miracle.

Chuck LaFLange (54:33.288)
Like how does that? Yeah, that's so amazing. I'm very grateful that she's got to experience that, right? I'm grateful for you for coming on. Finally, we get the chance to connect and have this conversation. It's been coming for a long time. I'm always grateful for my dumb dog here at my feet, Sonny. Yes, yes, yes. I'm very grateful to a follower who bought me a phone, which should be here tomorrow. So I'm really excited for that. Finally, it's been...

Rachael (54:46.886)
Yeah.

Rachael (54:52.198)
Mine's right here.

Chuck LaFLange (55:02.44)
months without one. And I'm grateful to every single person who continues to like, watch, comment, share, talk about the show, do the things, hit the buttons down at the bottom, you know what they are. Every time you do these things, you're getting me a little bit closer to living my best life. My best life is to continue making a humble living, spreading the message. The message is this. If you're an active addiction right now, today could be the day, today could be the day that you start a lifelong journey. Reach out to a friend, reach out to a family member, call them to detox, go to church, pray, I don't care. Do whatever it is you've got to do to get that journey started.

It is so much better than the alternative. If you have a loved one who's suffering an addiction right now, you've just taken the time to listen to our conversation. Just take one more minute of your day and text that person. Let them know they are loved. Use the words.

Rachael (55:44.614)
You are loved.

Chuck LaFLange (55:46.792)
That little glimmer of hope just might be the thing that brings it back. Boom.