223-PARIS LE MAISTRE from SH*TS F*CKED

Chuck LaFLange (00:01.448)
Hello everybody, watchers, listeners, supporters of all kinds. Welcome to another episode of The Weekend Ramblin' on the Ashes to Us podcast. I'm your host Chuck LaFleur, check me in from Krabi, Thailand, halfway around the world in Calgary, Alberta, with my lovely co -host Dr. Lisa. How you doing today, Lisa?

Lisa (00:14.947)
I'm good. I'm getting over a cold, so bear with me if I have to mute myself from time to time. But no, I'm good. I'm doing good.

Chuck LaFLange (00:23.56)
Good stuff, good stuff. It's a good to see you. Our guest for today is Paris Le... Ah, fuck it, I lost it already. Paris Le... This is... Let's say ADHD for you, right there, right? It was like less... Well, I'm a pretty intelligent person, I like to think, so let me stir, we're gonna say it, okay? The way I said it, I wasn't gonna say it, that's how I'm gonna say it.

Paris (00:36.828)
It's not an easy name to pronounce.

Lisa (00:44.853)
you

Chuck LaFLange (00:46.516)
Paris is joining us from Perth, Australia. How you to do it today, Paris, and how the hell do you pronounce your last name?

Paris (00:54.876)
Okay, so my last name is pronounced Lemotre, but in Australia a lot of people just say like Lemeister or you know there's the master which is what it means in English so you know feel free to use either or and um yes damn it I tried I tried

Chuck LaFLange (01:09.104)
I told you, I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it. No, I'm not going to call you master. It's not going to happen, right? Yeah. I mean, I heard something about Australians and racism, but whatever. Yeah, I'm kidding.

opens it up with a shot across the bow. Okay. Yeah. I can't even help myself. I can't. So, you know, for a peek behind the curtain here, I guess I reached out to Paris, I don't know, probably a couple months ago now. It was quite a while ago. Yeah. Yeah.

Paris (01:24.188)
We're shooting shots already, god damn.

Lisa (01:27.843)
Oh

Paris (01:36.732)
Yeah, it was a while ago. It was last year for sure.

Chuck LaFLange (01:38.92)
Yeah, and we've had some back and forth and of course she came 12 hours ago onto the 14 hours ago I guess 15 hours ago on the on a Blackcast radio with Jared from the Blacklist podcast tonight to do a to do an episode of that which was just fantastic we had a lot of fun and maybe get a peek of who you are and some of the things going on in your life but I really wanted to find out more about your Paris so why not?

Chuck LaFLange (02:07.944)
What I like to do in these kind of Get to Know You episodes, can you remember the first time you got messed up?

Paris (02:19.26)
a little. The first time? Um, alright.

Lisa (02:21.475)
Hehehehehe

Chuck LaFLange (02:23.08)
love Australians and their foul mouths is just awesome. No no no no no no we don't don't censor on the show we don't worry too much about it but like profanity means something very different in Australia than it does in Canada right like it's it's crazy right so anyway.

Paris (02:26.268)
Oh, sorry.

Paris (02:32.284)
Oh, thanks fucking God.

Paris (02:39.484)
Yeah. It's how we speak. It's how we say hello. It's like, good morning cunt. Like...

Chuck LaFLange (02:43.784)
If I hear five sentences a row without a C -bomb, it's like, hey, look, these people are keeping it down for us, right? So, yeah.

Lisa (02:52.643)
Hahaha!

Paris (02:55.064)
The first time I ever got messed up, fuck. I reckon I would have been 13 years old. I remember stealing my dad's port. Port of all choices, I don't know why I went for that. I think because it was sweet. I went for port and I just ended up drinking that whole bottle and I got pretty drunk. But yeah, that was probably the first time I got.

Chuck LaFLange (02:56.976)
you

Chuck LaFLange (03:19.464)
Do you remember how it made you feel?

Paris (03:23.1)
Oh, I felt great. Yeah, this is what kind of started that slippery slope with alcohol is that, you know, I realized that I could use this as a numbing agent and I could just feel relaxed and good and happy. And yeah, that was the start of the end.

Chuck LaFLange (03:39.912)
So, and then for kind of the final in this series of questions that I use to open things up quite often to your parents, is that with the benefit of hindsight, or were you insightful enough at the time, or self -aware enough at the time, is maybe a better term, to understand what it had done for you, or does that kind of understanding come with the benefit of hindsight and some lived experience?

Lisa (03:41.539)
Hmm.

Paris (03:59.644)
I think like there was a degree of like, I understood what it was doing for me because that's why I always went for it. Like whether or not like I was reflecting in a sense where I was like, I guess how I would now in hindsight, I think would be a bit different. But at that time I would, I was definitely aware of what it was doing and what it was providing me because that's what, that's what drove me for a long time with alcohol. Like, and I was drinking daily from 13. Like it was, it's spiraled out from there. Like it was,

Lisa (04:17.215)
Can I ask a question, Paris? Like, what was kind of going on?

Paris (04:29.596)
Yeah, it was pretty full on.

Of course you can.

Lisa (04:36.963)
Like 13, you're so little, right? So I mean, what was going on for you pre -13 that at 13, a numbing agent was attractive?

Paris (04:48.54)
Very good question. Actually, there was a lot of stuff that was going on. I was brought up in a household that was very, very destructive. Bless my parents. I love them to bits. And look, they were doing the best that they could with the tools that they had. And I acknowledge that. They truly did do their best with what they understood. But unfortunately, there was just a lot of anger within the house. There was not, they don't...

they didn't really know how to emotionally regulate. So there was a lot of huge outbursts. There was violence at times. Yeah, there was just, it was just really difficult growing up in that kind of environment. Like you were constantly walking on eggshells. And for me as well, like my dad's mom, she was quite abusive towards me in the sense that it was very emotionally abusive. Like she used to...

Lisa (05:29.889)
Hmm.

Paris (05:45.308)
lock me away in rooms from like three years old and isolate me from my siblings. Cause she hated me. She just absolutely hated me because I looked like my mom and she hated my mom. So she was constantly isolating me and I would be in rooms for hours, like staring out the window, contemplating my own existence at such a young age and questioning my worth. And so yeah, that just kind of started a whole roller coaster of...

mixed emotions. I didn't know who I was, why I wasn't good enough and that was reaffirming at home and in that environment and I just was not happy from a really, really young age. And yeah, so going through those turbulent emotions and finding something that could bring me a sense of peace for a moment, yeah, I was all over it.

Lisa (06:28.931)
Mm.

Lisa (06:35.691)
Mm -hmm.

And were you a sensitive kid? Like were you a kid who, you know, felt a lot of emotions, sensitive to what was going on around you?

Paris (06:42.268)
Oh yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (06:43.24)
you

Paris (06:48.316)
Absolutely, like I was so sensitive. Like I used to cry, get worked up. I'd give myself panic attacks. I'd throw up like over anything. Like I'd always be really conscious of not wanting to hurt other people's feelings. And my mom used to say, you know, when I was like three or four years old, I used to always come to her late at night and be like, mom, I just want to be happy. And she was like, at the time I thought...

was cute just like but now kind of reflecting back it was really odd that you were coming to me so young and thinking about your level of happiness like that's actually was a giant red flag on where you were at at that point of time so yeah.

Lisa (07:31.459)
I definitely noticed that with patients that I work with, any kid's going to struggle with a chaotic home environment. Kids want stability, they want certainty, they want predictability, they want safety. And so when you're growing up in a household where there's violence and chaos and high expressed emotions, that's difficult for any kid. But I find that people who go on to often then struggle with either anxiety or depression or addiction.

There is often when you talk about a kid's temperament, right? Because you're not born with a personality, but you are born with a temperament. And so when you go back to remembering, you know, what were you like as a very young child? And were you somebody who was very sensitive to other people's emotions? Did you feel your own emotions really big, like that really sensitive temperament? They struggle even more in chaotic home environments. Yeah.

Paris (08:22.524)
Yeah, absolutely. And I, yeah, I definitely was that kid for sure. Very, very sensitive to those big feelings. And I got to a point where, you know, it was, I was just constantly in, I guess, flight mode after a while. And I was constantly just trying to get out of people's way and at home because I just did not want to be caught up in it. It was all too much for me. It was just, yeah, it was just full on.

Chuck LaFLange (08:28.872)
you

Lisa (08:46.435)
Mm -hmm. And did you have a safe person at home? Like, you know, was it was there somebody that you felt?

Paris (08:53.724)
There was, like mom, mom was probably my safe person. But she was also really struggling. My mom actually had cancer. So she was sick for a number of years when I was, I think I was like five or six. And it was really hard to, I don't know, get her kind of support for a while because she wasn't really available for us. Like she was so unwell and.

when she did recover, like, you know, she was in such a turbulent marriage as well. Like she's just trying to do the best she can. She's got three kids, she's running around, she's doing all of this pretty much on her own. Like my dad is a truck driver, so he was away a lot of the time. So yeah, it was, she only had so much time, but she did her best. Like if I, if I came to her crying, like, you know, she would absolutely comfort me. But yeah, it was all dependent on where she was at and what she could provide.

Lisa (09:50.657)
Mm hmm. And you know, and I think that just as like a blanket statement, I think everybody does the best they can, you know, I think people are always doing the best they can with what they know and what they, you know, the tools that they've got. Right? Yeah.

Paris (09:57.274)
Yes.

Paris (10:05.884)
Yeah, absolutely. And I know my mom blessed her to this day. Like she's feeling a lot of guilt for not doing better back then. But I have to always reassure her. It's like, again, you were doing the best that you could under the circumstances. Like you had a lot of shit going on. Like, and you didn't have really the most supportive husband either. So you were doing a lot of shit on your own. So, you know, kudos to you, Ma. Like you did amazing.

Chuck LaFLange (10:15.642)
you

you

Lisa (10:19.969)
Mm -hmm.

Lisa (10:26.819)
Mm -hmm. Yeah. And did, was there addiction in your family?

Paris (10:33.692)
Yes, it does run in my family. My dad was a big drinker, but I wouldn't say when I was a kid that he was really like an alcoholic of any sense. He was when he was younger.

but not when I was a child and my mum didn't really drink. She's a Jehovah's Witness so she wasn't really doing that but she used to party really hard, things like that. So she definitely had those tendencies and then I've got uncles that suffer with alcohol addiction and then I have siblings as well that struggle with drug addiction as well. So it definitely runs in the family.

Chuck LaFLange (11:15.528)
you

Lisa (11:15.811)
Hmm.

Yeah, yeah. So sorry, I like derailed your story. But so you were saying that when you were 13, that was like you drank a bottle of port felt really good. And then pretty quickly, you started drinking almost daily.

Paris (11:30.044)
Oh, every day, every day I was stealing mom and dad's alcohol collection. I was just constantly taking bits and pieces from them everywhere that I could. And because they weren't drinking often then, they didn't really notice for a while. It actually wasn't until I was 19 that I even confessed to them that most of their alcohol collection was water and food. I was like, I'm wet.

Chuck LaFLange (11:54.44)
Oh, wow.

Lisa (11:55.011)
Oh, didn't even cross my mind. I just figured the bottles got emptied and discarded, but you're like, no, no, no, filled them back up food coloring. There we go.

Chuck LaFLange (12:00.328)
No, no, no true addict. No, we're much more devious than that. Yes, yes, that's how we know. Okay, so now we've established all the credibility we need to, right? So, okay, the aforementioned credibility, right? So, Jesus, so then at what point does it dawn on you that you've got a problem?

Paris (12:01.116)
Mm -mm. Yep.

Paris (12:12.848)
Yup, yup.

You

Paris (12:23.484)
To be honest, it took me a really long time to acknowledge that because even when I was 16, I ended up getting really sick and I started having some liver issues. And even then they were like, you cannot touch alcohol for like minimum six months. Like your liver is cooked. Like you cannot physically. No, I actually got it from glandular fever.

Chuck LaFLange (12:40.104)
from drinking?

Lisa (12:41.379)
Um.

Paris (12:44.956)
But I think because I was drinking as well through that, it definitely impacted my liver as well. So I was very jaundice and things like that through that time. And it hit me really hard, I think because of the way that I was drinking. And it honestly, yeah, I couldn't do it. I couldn't survive six months. And I was so ill. I was so ill, like jaundice, yellow. And I still could not put down the bottle. And...

Chuck LaFLange (12:49.572)
Okay.

Paris (13:14.554)
I did not recognize that as an issue at the time. Like, I can look at it back at it now and say, yeah, fuck, that was probably the beginning of the end. But no, it wasn't until with alcohol, I didn't realize that was such a bad problem till about a year ago. And I'm 30, 31 now. So it's taken a long time for me to acknowledge that this has been a really big monster for me. Because my...

Chuck LaFLange (13:34.024)
Really?

Paris (13:43.548)
My meth addiction, I kind of became more focused on that, which took grip of me when I was 20. So I was like, ah, that's the real monster. This is the real problem. I need to focus on sorting that out. Alcohol isn't the issue, but yeah, obviously it was.

Lisa (13:45.315)
you

Lisa (13:57.601)
Mm.

And how did you go from alcohol to meth?

Paris (14:03.932)
So I actually was introduced to meth firstly when I was 14. I was telling Chuck about this earlier. I was over at a mate's house. She also grew up in an environment that wasn't the best considering we were 14 and there was crack pipes around. And...

She had given it to me and said, you know, it's like weed. And I'd recently just started smoking weed here and there. And I was like, oh yeah, like weed, you just smoke it like easy. I've done that like, you know, crazy. And then I had it and oh my goodness, my poor little 14 year old body was just in agony from the high that I was experiencing. It was like my heart was just.

Absolutely beating out of my chest and I didn't sleep for two days and I probably like smoked it once It was full on how my poor little body reacted So what after that I was like, oh my goodness, like I don't know what the hell that was But I am I'm never touching that again. Like that was that was horrible however when I was 20 I actually went through a really really traumatic experience and I was telling Chuck earlier

Chuck LaFLange (15:15.432)
you

Paris (15:18.14)
It was like the stars aligned. I honestly look back on that day and I think how the hell was I ever not going to go down that path? Like I feel like I was destined actually to walk that path under the circumstances. Like everything just aligned. It was beautifully set up. Like I, I went through this really traumatic incident. I'd happened to reconnect with this chick that I used to play field hockey with when I was 13. Had no idea she was a methodic. No fucking clue.

And she was there with me that day that this incident happened and she literally turned around being like, I've got something that will take this all away. And I'm like melting, I'm absolutely losing function. I cannot cope with these huge feelings. And it was like on a silver platter for me. And I was like, yep, done. Like anything to stop me from feeling this way. So from 20, that kind of went on till a year ago.

Chuck LaFLange (15:55.496)
you

Paris (16:16.828)
So that's, it was a good 10 years, 10 years of dealing with a meth addiction as well.

Lisa (16:22.275)
Oh.

Chuck LaFLange (16:23.976)
and rather than get you to...

Chuck LaFLange (16:29.)
What are some of the big...

Paris (16:36.588)
My D's out there in yonder. Man, I don't know. It's so rough. It's honestly one of the hardest things I've ever been through and I wouldn't wish it upon anyone else. But I think that... Are you wanting horror stories?

Chuck LaFLange (16:41.864)
you

Chuck LaFLange (16:53.272)
I don't know, I've never asked that question before and I'm not even sure that I like the question to be honest with you, right?

Lisa (17:02.467)
I mean, one of the things I'm curious about is like, where did it, what did it cost you? Like, where did that take you in life? I mean, were you sleeping under a bridge? Were you somehow managing to stay housed and working or like what was going on in your life?

Paris (17:15.644)
Yeah, so I would say I was pretty functioning, like a pretty functioning addict, but you know, I was absolutely losing my mind at the same time. Like I wouldn't say I would look at myself and be like, oh yeah, she's got it all sorted. Like I did not, but I was managing to, you know, have shelter over my head. I never experienced homelessness, thank goodness, but I did end up falling into the adult industry and I was actually escorting for a number of years in Melbourne. And that...

That was not good for my habits. And it cost me a lot of friendships as well. I was just becoming really sneaky, I was lying a lot, people didn't trust what I was saying. And it was hard because I always had a good heart and I never wanted to hurt anyone. But when you're in the depths of addiction, I just automatically went into protective mode. I was like, I don't want to let people in too close because I don't want to hurt them. I know I'm...

I'm not doing the best, but this is what's helping me right now. And I don't know how to get out of this just yet. So, you know, I'll fill them in once I'm better. Like I'll let them know once I'm good, like what's going on. And it was honestly like a sense of protection. So, yeah, no, it's, yeah, it did really cost me quite a bit. And I was just, I lost my mind really. Like I was so far from my true self.

that when I did finally get sober and I reconnected with who I really am, it was just, it was incredible. I don't even know how to explain it. And then finally having that sense of peace within myself, you priceless.

Lisa (18:58.369)
Mm -hmm. Did you ever experience psychosis?

Paris (19:02.652)
Yes, I was telling, I was telling Chuck a story earlier. So there was a, there was a brief period of time where I was actually living with a heroin addict and she was doing hotshots, which is meth and heroin mixed together. So super dangerous and lethal combo. And she was stressing me the hell out. So I was, you know, I was justifying this, I guess, as a reason to stay awake, but you know,

Of course it was also my addiction, but I ended up staying awake for about three days and we were staying in this apartment that was at least like on the fifth or sixth floor. And I remember she was talking to me at one point and I was looking like just straight out the window and I'm looking at these skyscrapers like in front of me. And all of a sudden I'm seeing like this SWAT team, like coming up the skyscrapers and I just felt this immediate dread. I was like, oh my God. I was like.

SWAT team are coming for us and I just started panicking. I'm not even listening to anything she's trying to say to me. I'm just staring out this window like, oh my god the SWAT team are climbing the building to come and get us. Like, oh my god. And then I finally just had a moment of realization where I was like, hon in Paris. Like, you're not some big fucking honcho that people are looking for right now. Like, they don't even know you exist. Like, you know, relax. You need to, you need to fucking sleep. Like, this is just...

Chuck LaFLange (20:20.456)
you

Paris (20:28.956)
You're starting to lose it now. So yeah, I definitely had a lot of those moments where all of a sudden my reality was really distorted and I couldn't tell what was real or not. Like sometimes I would have whole conversations with people that weren't even there. And it was just so alarming because I'd always managed to wake up halfway through it or just become self -aware halfway through it. And I'll be like, oh fuck, like I'm talking to myself. I need to go to bed. I need to go to bed.

Chuck LaFLange (20:33.16)
you

Chuck LaFLange (20:40.168)
you

Lisa (20:57.315)
Yeah. Yeah. And so never admitted to a psych unit or anything like that by the sounds of it.

Paris (21:02.588)
But, well, I did. I did get admitted in 2019 in Melbourne, but it was mainly because I had a suicide attempt. So that was how I got in there. It wasn't because of drug psychosis, though.

Lisa (21:17.891)
Okay, I'm sorry to hear that.

Chuck LaFLange (21:18.216)
But I would venture to guess that the suicide attempt had something to do with where you're at in life and of course has everything to do with drugs.

Paris (21:25.884)
Oh yeah, yeah, I was just at an absolute point of desperation. I just felt so lost. I didn't really know how to make things better. Like I'd spent my whole life just running around in chaos and feeling so empty. I had no sense of identity. I just really, you know, I've been diagnosed later with borderline personality disorder. So I had a lot of big emotions, a lot of, a lot of feelings and it was really, really hard to.

navigate through that all and yeah I just got to a really desperate point and I just I was exhausted I was so tired I was like I'm so sick of you know living like this and I just don't know how to get out of this like everything seems so bleak I didn't see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Lisa (22:11.425)
Mm.

Chuck LaFLange (22:11.976)
So what?

At what point do you decide it's time to get out of this and what worked? What helped you get out of it?

Paris (22:22.332)
Well, there was a few, a few incidents where I had attempted to get better and unfortunately I had lapses, but I did start that process of like, right, I need to, I need to do something about this. I can't keep going this way. When I got admitted into the psych ward, because I, I genuinely just didn't know how to, how to go on like that. I really didn't. And.

I had my partner at the time, he left me and he was someone I really, really loved. And you know, I broke that man. I absolutely broke that man from what I was putting him through and seeing the damage that I had done to him. Like I literally saw him become disheveled, like in front of my eyes. Like he had a full physical reaction as well as a mental to everything that I was going through. And even my best friend of 15 years, she had to axe me because she could not deal with.

Chuck LaFLange (23:02.618)
you

Chuck LaFLange (23:08.666)
you

Paris (23:16.732)
what I was going through. I was traumatizing her constantly, because I was living with her and she was like literally in the midst of it. And so, you know, I lost those two people that I really cared so deeply for. And it wasn't until, you know, I was a little bit in a woe is me state for a little bit. And then I got back to pertering COVID in 2020 and I spent 14 days in isolation, which was actually my detox.

And I did a lot of reflection. I was like, yeah, no, like no more of this. No more. I need to, I really need to just get on the right track. And you know, maybe I actually need to get some help with this. Like I previously, I'd only ever spoken to a psychologist, but I'd never been to a drug counselor. I'd never been to any support groups, never been to AA or NA. And so I was like, maybe I need to try that. Maybe this is what I need to do now. So it was just...

Chuck LaFLange (23:46.504)
Whatever works, yeah.

Paris (24:14.428)
Yeah, from 2020, that was when I really started acknowledging the issue and trying to do something about it. Even though there was setbacks, I still kept that mentality. Yes, yeah, well, it was just... Yeah, so when we come back into WA, it was quite strict in Western Australia. So if you'd ever come from another state, you had to isolate for 14 days before you could enter.

Lisa (24:21.443)
Thank you.

Lisa (24:27.331)
But so in 2020, so you had to do a COVID isolation? Is that what your 14 days?

Paris (24:43.708)
Back into WA.

Lisa (24:45.347)
And what gave you the motivation to do that? Because I can imagine somebody in active addiction being like, fuck that, like, I'm going to go get drugs. I'm not following these rules. So what got you through 14 days complying with this isolation?

Paris (25:01.212)
I think I was just so desperate. I was just so broken from everything that had happened in Melbourne and I honestly considered this a fresh start. So I was taking it really seriously. I'd even set myself daily routines in quarantine, you know, where I was like, I'm gonna get up and drink a glass of water. I'm gonna have a shower and, you know, get dressed. I'm gonna have breakfast. I'm gonna call a loved one. I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that. And...

Yeah, I just, it purely was fueled out of desperation. I just really didn't want to be in this place anymore.

Lisa (25:34.371)
Do you know, Chuck, that reminds me, I feel like, and maybe it's come up before, I'm sure it has, but the other person who used the word desperation was Sonia. Because I remember one of the conversations, so Sonia, I don't know if you know who Sonia is, Paris, but she's in recovery and she lives in Florida. And she's awesome. But I remember one of the conversations we had was around like as a family member, I think family members are always torn between,

Chuck LaFLange (25:43.88)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (25:51.496)
You're good.

Lisa (26:03.843)
what's loving, what's enabling, you know, what do we do, what don't we do? And one of the things that I had asked Sonia, who had also used that word desperation, is that, you know, for example, like having a brother who struggled with addiction for many, many, many years, there was always that question of, you know, do we pay for a hotel room? Do we, because part of it is the hope.

Paris (26:06.556)
Yes.

Lisa (26:34.019)
that the person gets to a point of desperation that will prompt them or precipitate them reaching out to get help with their addiction. And, you know, like my dad, for example, has often used the phrase that I'm not going to pay for a bed for you to kill yourself in. And, but it's, you know, and I still, I still having lived as a sibling for 25 years,

Paris (26:44.74)
Yeah.

Paris (26:50.88)
Mm.

Lisa (27:00.763)
working as a psychiatrist, doing this podcast, speaking to so many people on the podcast, so many patients, I can still tell you that I still don't know the answer to that question. Because yeah, like with my brother, I would absolutely want him to get to a point of desperation. And I would be happy to contribute to him getting to a point of desperation. But so it's just interesting, because I remember that word coming up with Sonia. So I'm curious, like, what are your thoughts on that?

Chuck LaFLange (27:22.17)
you

Lisa (27:29.859)
because I think most of our listeners are family members. And...

Chuck LaFLange (27:32.616)
they are.

Paris (27:35.26)
Yeah, for sure. And I mean, it's really, really tough. It's so, so hard because you do get caught up in it and you do get really torn on what it is to do. Like, what is the right way? What is the wrong way? I mean, I don't think there is really a right or wrong answer here. Like, my sister and I, we talked about this a lot in one of my episodes on Shit's Fucked. About, you know, she didn't really know what to do. Like, she got really caught up in getting into a point of desperation herself.

Lisa (27:43.029)
. . . .

Paris (28:05.532)
because she just saw me turn into someone that she didn't recognize and she was so desperate to get me back that she was constantly at me all the goddamn time and it absolutely

I was stop pointing at things that I don't want to look at, alright? Like, just fuck off. This is my shame bubble, like, you're not allowed in it. Like, you know, no girls allowed, no boys allowed. And I'm like, I'm not allowed in it. I'm not allowed in it. I'm not allowed in it. I'm not allowed in it. I'm not allowed in it. I'm not allowed in it. I'm not allowed in it. I'm not allowed in it. I'm not allowed in it. I'm not allowed in it. I'm not allowed in it. I'm not allowed in it. I'm not allowed in it. I'm not allowed in it. I'm not allowed in it. I'm not allowed in it. I'm not allowed in it. I'm not allowed in it. I'm not allowed in it. I'm not allowed in it. I'm not allowed in it. I'm not allowed in it. I'm not allowed in it. I'm not allowed in

Lisa (28:37.857)
Mm -hmm.

Lisa (28:42.337)
Yeah.

Lisa (28:45.795)
Hahaha!

Paris (28:47.47)
I was just honestly, yeah, we were having this really honest conversation about how tough that was for her. And she was like, you know, did that help at all? And I was like, fuck no, like it did not help in the slightest. But it wasn't until I got to the point where I had acknowledged what was going on for me and that I needed to do something about it, that I was then willing to open up to my family and friends about it. I think if you tried to talk to me,

before I got to that point of acceptance, it just wasn't gonna happen. It wasn't gonna happen.

Lisa (29:22.115)
And what was she doing? Like, you know, she was bugging you, but what was bugging you?

Paris (29:29.052)
She was just constantly asking a lot of questions because you know, I think she was onto me escorting so she'd already come across some ads. Her friends had sent some ads to her and she was like questioning me about it and I just lied through my teeth. I was constantly like, oh those are photos from my Snapchat. Someone's obviously just screenshotted those and made an ad. How weird. Report it. I wouldn't even get her to report my own ad.

Chuck LaFLange (29:41.114)
you

Chuck LaFLange (29:50.088)
you

Lisa (29:58.179)
Ha ha ha.

Paris (29:58.204)
Just so I could avoid having this conversation with her. And yeah, it was, she just, she was just constantly asking why I was doing certain things. Cause I was doing such strange things. I was just doing really bizarre things. I was jumping from different jobs. I was suddenly working in an office and then next minute I'm bricklaying. I was doing stuff that didn't make sense. So she was just constantly questioning.

Lisa (30:24.875)
Mmm.

Paris (30:27.182)
what the hell is going on? Like your sense of reality is completely different to mine. She was like, I could just see that there was all this stuff going on and you were just not acknowledging any of it. It was like, you had this distorted reality, this story that you kept projecting and it wasn't real. She was like, I was just, yeah, really confused. I didn't know how to approach it.

Chuck LaFLange (30:37.856)
you

Lisa (30:48.547)
So did your sister know that you were inactive addiction?

Paris (30:54.62)
she knew yes because there was a few.

Lisa (30:56.803)
But like, but like because she kind of like, like for example, in my case, like my brother wasn't being secretive, like we knew he was using drugs. We like we knew it was not like, I mean, do you know what I'm saying? Like it was very out in the open. He wasn't for a long time ready to get help, but we knew where what was going on. So like, did they know or did they just suspect?

Paris (31:05.37)
Yeah.

Paris (31:10.092)
Yes.

Yeah.

Paris (31:20.476)
They suspected, so there was a lot of talk between, you know, we had mutual friends and people would come to her being like, hey, Capri, like, you know, this is what's going on with Paris. Like, I thought you should know. And she would confront me about it. And I'd be like, oh my God, I would never, like, who would, I can't believe they said that. And I would be so deflective. And so, yeah, she constantly, it's like she knew deep down what was going on. She was seeing it happening, but yeah, couldn't say for sure. I wasn't out in the open with it.

Lisa (31:22.403)
Okay.

Lisa (31:36.699)
Wow.

Chuck LaFLange (31:39.172)
you

Lisa (31:45.057)
Hmm.

Lisa (31:50.979)
Gotcha. That's an amazing secret to keep for that long.

Paris (31:54.876)
Well, living in another state helps.

Lisa (31:57.795)
Yeah, yeah, for sure. And then.

Chuck LaFLange (32:00.584)
It's an amazing secret to think you're keeping for that long. I should write.

Paris (32:03.9)
Yeah, true. It wasn't a well -kept secret, to be honest. When my sister and I were talking about it, she said that I would often be like, you know, there's nothing going on, it's all gravy over here. And she's like, it would literally be all high beams on you of this just absolute fucking chaos. And you just thought like no one could see you, but we could all see your shit. We could all see it.

Lisa (32:04.707)
Yeah.

Lisa (32:22.155)
Wow.

Lisa (32:26.435)
Yeah. And so you were telling us like before we started recording that you have done an episode on your podcast with your sister talking about how it impacted her. Was there was everything that she shared kind of stuff that you already knew or was there anything that came up that surprised you?

Chuck LaFLange (32:26.824)
Woof.

Paris (32:47.996)
There was definitely some things that came up that surprised me because the beauty of drug addiction as well is that you can experience memory loss. And so there was some things that she brought up where I genuinely didn't have any recollection of. So there was a few instances where she was telling me that I'd iced her out for months. I didn't realize I'd actually not spoken to her for that long because I was in my little speedy world. Time was flying for me, I didn't realize.

Lisa (33:11.599)
Hmm.

Chuck LaFLange (33:12.442)
you

Paris (33:17.818)
you know how long it had actually been since I'd spoken to her and she was like, yeah, sometimes it would be like a good three to six months that you would respond to me. And I was like, damn, like I didn't, I didn't realize it was that long. Like I thought it was like a couple of weeks max, but yeah, okay. Fuck.

Lisa (33:31.747)
Mm -hmm.

Lisa (33:36.035)
And like when you would go that long, were you in contact with any family? Like were people reporting you missing? Or?

Chuck LaFLange (33:36.538)
you

Paris (33:42.542)
No, no, I mean, I would have been posting on social media like a random photo here and there. I would have been active in other ways that people knew that I was alive. But no, I wasn't speaking with anyone though.

Lisa (33:50.755)
Okay.

Lisa (33:57.475)
Wow. And Chuck, you've kind of talked about that too. Like you've said, you know, that when you're active in it, you know, time, like you just don't have a real conception of time.

Chuck LaFLange (34:00.488)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (34:07.4)
Not at all, not at all. I mean, and you're right, months go by. Years, in my case, went by. And it's not that I didn't realize that there wasn't months or years happening. It's that I don't even want to say that you don't care, because you do. Like, you really do when you stop and think about it. In my case, anyway, like in those moments of lucidity, if you will. But your brain's too busy doing something else.

Lisa (34:29.585)
Mm -hmm.

Chuck LaFLange (34:35.176)
Right? Which is, at the end of the day, what we're fucking trying to do anyway. Right? It's just get your brain to do something else. So it doesn't even... And then of course there's the whole snake eating its tail thing. Right? Well now I don't want to think about how long it's been and how, you know, I'm out of touch and how nobody gives a shit so I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing and it just... You know? And where does one start and the other begin? Who knows? And that's the really fucked up part of it all, right? Which is why, and Lisa, you know this very well, but that you are a love message that I push so hard all the time.

Paris (34:35.438)
Yeah.

Lisa (34:40.385)
Mm -hmm.

Lisa (34:58.337)
Mm -hmm.

Lisa (35:03.831)
Mm -hmm.

Chuck LaFLange (35:05.768)
Prepare something I say often, the perceived lack of...

believing that that I wasn't loved, believing that I wasn't lovable. And even though, like, especially with the benefit of hindsight, of course I was. But wow, right? You can tell yourself some things and you can believe all the shit, right? You know? Yeah.

Paris (35:11.964)
Mm.

Paris (35:20.124)
Yes, yeah.

Oh, definitely. Yeah, and I can relate to that man. Like I honestly, I felt so alone in my journey. I wasn't really recognizing that yeah, there was people around me that really loved me and actually cared about what I was going through. And particularly when certain people had to cut me out of their lives, you know, that just really amplified those feelings of abandonment and like I'm alone.

Lisa (35:26.047)
Mm -hmm.

Chuck LaFLange (35:48.04)
Yeah, oh, now I have a resentment. Ooh, watch me go with a resentment, right? Yeah, that's, that's, fuck. Yeah, right? You know, right. Um, ah shit, I had something and it disappeared. Okay, let's go back to it.

Paris (35:52.7)
Yes, I did have a little bit of that too. Yep. Yep.

Lisa (35:53.641)
Mm -hmm.

Lisa (36:03.363)
Were the you talked about the boyfriend and the friend that had kind of cut you off? Were they also active in addiction?

Paris (36:10.524)
No, no, they were living very normal lives compared to me. So this was very abnormal, like for them and was very, very difficult to navigate through. Like my boyfriend at the time, he really struggled to understand because he just did not have those kinds of issues. And he hadn't experienced even a loved one having those kinds of issues. So this was a whole new realm for him. And look, it...

Lisa (36:14.627)
Mm.

Lisa (36:29.665)
Mm -hmm.

Paris (36:36.444)
It was too much for him. He really didn't have a lot of understanding and he didn't know how to navigate through that. He really needed more support than what he had at the time. But yeah, my best friend, she definitely had family that had been through a lot of problems with addiction. So I think there was also a level of resentment that she had towards me because I was bringing up those feelings too. But yeah, it was just...

Lisa (37:01.373)
Mm -hmm.

Chuck LaFLange (37:05.768)
tends to reason.

Paris (37:05.884)
Yeah, it was something that she doubled.

Lisa (37:06.499)
And did your boyfriend know? Did he know that you were using?

Paris (37:12.892)
feeling. I confessed the odd time or two, but I wasn't always honest. And I even was escorting when I was with him. And he didn't know about that until he found my ad because he had suspicions because I was just again, up at stupid hours of the night. And just doing odd things. And so yeah, he started looking around the internet to see if that's what I was doing. And he found me and I lost his trust.

Lisa (37:31.211)
Mm -hmm.

Paris (37:40.572)
pretty quickly, even though I denied it flat out, I still didn't even admit to it. It was my source of income, so I was like, there's no way I'm going to say I'm doing this because then it's going to be gone. Yeah, it was just tough for him, very, very tough for him.

Lisa (37:46.113)
Hmm

Lisa (37:55.253)
Hmm.

Lisa (37:59.651)
Yeah. And I would say like, I don't know if you would agree, Chuck, but I feel like maybe of most of the guests that we've had on, like, I feel like Paris maybe did a, like her, her addiction was secret from a lot more people in her life than a lot of other guests we've had. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (38:17.64)
than most, right? It's really hard to maintain, right? It's really hard to maintain. It's almost, I'll say impressive only because it stands out so much, not because I think people should do that, but it is, it is somewhat, it speaks to how, you know, when you take somebody who's intelligent and industrious, which you obviously are, and you throw in a drug addiction,

Lisa (38:23.491)
Thank you.

Lisa (38:29.877)
Yeah.

Lisa (38:38.659)
Mm -hmm.

Chuck LaFLange (38:41.416)
Right? Chickets, like, it's pretty crazy what you're capable of. Right? For me, I'm an entrepreneur and, you know, not dumb anyway. So when I, when I got into drugs, it was drug dealing. You know what I mean? Right? And so for you, and that's, but that's why I was able to keep afloat for many, many years before things got really, really bad. For yourself, you found escorting. It keeps you afloat for a long time as compared, you know, and, and obviously being industrious and, and, and.

Paris (39:02.172)
Mm.

Lisa (39:02.763)
Mm -hmm.

Paris (39:06.778)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (39:09.896)
intelligent the way that you are. So it's different the things that you can get away with, right?

Chuck LaFLange (39:17.49)
continue doing.

Like ruining my health ruining my relationships ruining my life, but never any without that big obvious Fire for everyone to worry about putting up

Paris (39:20.348)
Mm.

Paris (39:30.012)
Yeah, absolutely. And I just found it easier to isolate myself from everyone else because to be honest, I was experiencing a lot of shame. Like, and I was like, I'd have these moments of, yeah, this is pretty fucked up. Like something really hectic would happen. I'd be like, Oh my God, like what is going on in my life? Like, what am I doing? But like that would last like five, 10 minutes. I would go straight back on to cause I'm like, I don't want to think about this further. Let's just, let's just get rid of this.

Chuck LaFLange (39:30.952)
Yeah. Yep.

Chuck LaFLange (39:44.57)
you

Lisa (39:53.419)
Mm -hmm.

Chuck LaFLange (39:54.216)
Yes, I have a coping mechanism built in for that. Oh yeah, I know all about that, right? And I guess, and the thing I was gonna say was, now, right, you talk about how your sister nagging at you, you're asking you the questions. So, just before I leave for Thailand, I went back to Regina, which is the city where all the bad things happen, and this is, this is what involves Lisa. I am.

I went to go see some people and I ended up in fact around people places and things that I probably shouldn't have been at that point. You know, I just cracked a year in my sobriety. But there's some people I wanted to connect with before I left the country for potentially ever. And it was circumstance. I wasn't doing any, I was around people I shouldn't be around, but I managed to stay the course throughout the entire thing. But I was off grid for what, a day and a half? How many times did you call me Lisa? Right?

Lisa (40:48.259)
40? A lot.

Chuck LaFLange (40:48.744)
Yeah, in that time, right? My mom had messaged every way she knows how to message me in that time, right? In a day and a half. And I come out of that. And I'm like, oh, fuck everybody, just calm down. But whereas before that would have led to resentment.

Paris (40:55.26)
No.

Chuck LaFLange (41:05.704)
now and tell me if you can relate. It's like, thank you. Thank you for giving a shit, right? I will never ever take that for granted that people care. I'll never take it for granted again, right? You know, with that.

Paris (41:12.132)
Yep.

Paris (41:15.996)
Absolutely.

Yeah, I can definitely relate to that for sure. And I think that's the other thing, like for so long, I viewed my sister as this really fucking annoying older sister who was just trying to be my mom, like just fuck off with your shit. But after...

Lisa (41:29.187)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (41:32.232)
Lisa. For 36 hours.

Lisa (41:34.091)
Yeah.

Lisa (41:38.475)
Yep.

Paris (41:38.62)
going but after after coming out of that and looking back over all these years at how hard my sister really tried to be there for me man she was always in my corner she didn't give up on me like she she didn't she could have easily fucked me right off like especially after I seen her for a couple of months you know but she didn't she always had a hope that you know I was gonna come back to her in a sense and

you know, for someone who I viewed as my enemy for a long time is now my best friend because I've really recognized, you know, she was absolutely in my corner and how grateful I am to have someone who's that dedicated and values me and loves me so much. They're willing to put up with my shit for that long. Like so grateful, so grateful.

Chuck LaFLange (42:31.656)
I know somebody else who's a similar kind of sister. Yes, I do.

Lisa (42:35.267)
Hmm. I know. Well, you know, she was saying that she had never really talked about her story, but that they, you know, she's done a podcast that was more focused on her and her sister's relationship. And I was like, well, it's, you know, I'm a sister, you know? Um, and so I can probably relate, you know, certainly similarities, other differences. Like I said, like I, it was not a secret what my brother was doing. Um, but.

You know, I've said before that I remember very early in his addiction, his first time in rehab, which was 20 something years ago. I think it was like in 2002 or 2003. I remember them doing like a family session and his caseworker was kind of leading it and wanted each of us to kind of talk about how it had been for us.

And I think kind of like an impact statement of sorts, right? And, you know, and I don't know that he ever, I think he may have said something to the effect and not again, like in an accusatory way, but something to the effect of like, you have no idea how hard this is. And, you know, to sort of walk in the shoes of somebody struggling with addiction. And I remember saying to him again, not in a mean way, but like, you have no idea what it's like to be a sister.

Paris (44:01.116)
Mmm.

Lisa (44:01.731)
you know, to, and again, like I'm the older sister as well, right? So it's like, this is the little brother I used to dress up in my doll's clothes, you know, I sometimes joke, maybe, maybe it was all my fault. Maybe that was the problem was dressing him in doll's clothes when he was three years old. Um, but you know, because you, and it's probably similar to a parent or a spouse or whatever, or even a child, but it's like, you feel so helpless.

Paris (44:09.66)
Yeah, of course.

Paris (44:28.412)
You do.

Lisa (44:28.675)
You know, like this person that you love is suffering and you see the suffering and there's nothing you can do, you know? And I say there's nothing you can do. You can love them. You know, you can remind them that they're loved. You can offer help when they want it. And so you can do something, but that doesn't feel like enough, you know, to just be sending those messages of love, you know?

Paris (44:48.964)
Yeah.

Lisa (44:53.891)
from my side of it, because I feel like Chuck would say it is enough and you don't know how much that means, but on the family member side of it, like you want to do so much more than that. And so it's really difficult to be in those shoes and to feel like that's all I can do, you know?

Paris (45:05.308)
Absolutely.

Paris (45:10.876)
Yeah. And I actually had a very rude awakening to that exact feeling because I had another family member go through drug addiction after I started coming out of it. And that really, really woke me up to how I must've impacted others. Like, you know, my sister and I, we talked about it previously, but I didn't fully understand the impact until I experienced it myself.

with this other family member. And it was horrendous. It brought me to a point where I really started to have...

big breakdowns over it. Cause I was like, Oh my gosh, like I, like I'm feeling so tormented at the moment. Like I feel so helpless. Like this person is stressing me out. Like I have had sleepless nights because of this person and I just want to grab them and shake them and wake them up from this nightmare. Like, Oh my God. And then it just like clicks. I was like, Oh my God. I was like, this is, this is exactly what I've been putting everyone else through. Like, Oh, I just, I just put too much stress on myself.

two together and after that it just really changed my perspective on everything. I even apologized to my ex -best friend like for 15 years. I was like I am so sorry for what I put you through. I was like because now that I'm experiencing it I really understand what you must have been going through. I mean like you were on the ground, like you were in the trenches with me and yeah I can only imagine.

Chuck LaFLange (46:39.368)
I hope that was the most validating experience ever for her. I really do. You know, I, yeah.

Paris (46:43.836)
Yeah, it was. It was very, very healing for her. Like we've actually, we've really, really reconnected. And we've, yeah, we've healed a lot. Yeah. Yeah, we have. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (46:50.504)
That's awesome. That's awesome. I didn't want to ask just because, but yeah, I'm really glad that you said that. I'm really glad. Paris, I want to move on to what you're doing these days. So one of the reasons that I like your platform is most of the recovery podcasts or platforms out there are very similar.

We interview everybody who's got a story, do the thing. I pride the Ashland's to Awesome on being a little bit different. But you kind of have a different thing going on as well. And I don't even know if you realize it or if you did it with intent. But tell us about Shits and... What I've noticed about it is that... I mean, it's similar, right? That you've got... You can tell recovery stories about things that we kind of have to do, but...

Paris (47:25.006)
I mean, do tell!

Chuck LaFLange (47:37.672)
You seem to be working harder at putting people together with resources. Right? Because you've mentioned it multiple times in our conversations off, not recording. You mentioned it in the Black Ash radio appearance that you did yesterday with us. So tell us about Shits Fucked. What's A, the name. Let's talk about that. And then maybe, right? It's like, I can say it over and over again. Shit Fucked. And nobody can get mad at me because I'm just saying the name of a podcast or whatever. But no, seriously.

Lisa (47:39.907)
you

Lisa (47:44.739)
Mm.

Paris (48:02.908)
So.

That's true.

Chuck LaFLange (48:07.016)
Why don't you tell us about what's going on?

Paris (48:13.532)
Alright, no, I'd love to chat about that. So I actually, you know, I'd mentioned previously, it was about a year ago that I realized alcohol was a serious problem for me. So I actually decided to go to an AA meeting and I went abstinent for three months and holy fuck, the amount of shit that you can get done when you're not drinking. I had so much time back, I was the most productive I have ever been in my fucking life. And I was just like,

Chuck LaFLange (48:24.456)
you

Paris (48:43.388)
Whoa, I was like, this is alcohol? Jesus. Okay. I should have done this earlier, but, um, I, this was literally the moment that the podcast was born because it'd been an idea for so long. I had talked about it. Even when I was in active addiction, I was very much like, I want to help other people. Like I, I really struggled to, to figure out where to start. Like who do I.

Who do I go to? What resources are out there? What are the first steps? I don't even know where to begin. And I just was constantly thinking about, there's so many along my journey, I got to know a lot more resources and programs and support groups that I wouldn't have known existed until I...

obviously walk that path, but I was like, there's so many people out here that probably don't know about these resources and these programs and that they are available to them. And, you know, even particularly hybrid support groups that are in person and online that anyone from across the world can join in on. It's not just, you know, excluded to, um, you know, people in WA or in Australia, you know, there's a lot of these, a lot of these resources can go worldwide. And so.

Basically, I was, you know, I was in my absence. I was trying to try to think of a name for the podcast. I see, you know, it was the first thing that came to my head. I did no mind mapping, nothing. I it was not like, should it be this? Should it be that? No, I was like, man, shit's fucked. I was like, shit's fucked. Done. Sounds good.

Lisa (50:10.307)
Yeah.

Lisa (50:19.363)
Hahaha

Chuck LaFLange (50:19.624)
Now you're just showing off, right? I had opinion polls going on and oh yeah, it was a big to -do, right?

Paris (50:25.212)
Ha ha!

Literally, honestly, it just came to me straight away and I was like, yep, that's it. Perfect. Done. Lock it in. And so I just started working away on it and I was like, you know, what, what do I want this to look like? And you know, it is exactly what Chuck said. I do really, my intent with interviewing a lot of my guest speakers is to provide further resources and tools for people who are either inactive addiction or, you know, their loved ones who might be going through it. But you know what? I've even had a lot of people contact me and reach out to me who have found so much value.

Chuck LaFLange (50:33.292)
you

Paris (50:56.47)
in the episodes who aren't even in addiction. It's a lot of self development and personal growth as well and certain tools that we can use to grow ourselves further and become more self aware. And yeah, it's just really blossomed. It's turned into something that...

I don't know, it's going even further now. Like I'm studying a cert for in alcohol and other drugs at the moment so I can become a qualified online recovery coach because I had so many people as well reaching out to me who were just not able to get assistance here in Australia. Like the wait times to get any kind of help is fucked. Like it is insane and we are losing so many people in these gaps. Like I wanted to...

be a bit of a bridge. Like if someone's waiting to get professional services that they can still come on the podcast, they can have a listen to these guest speakers and maybe be able to link directly with them or attend another support group or use a resource or a tool that a guest speaker has provided if I haven't provided one and like myself. And yeah, just really trying to be that bridge and.

Chuck LaFLange (51:55.162)
you

Paris (52:10.332)
I want to eventually launch my own company and kind of have the podcast running linear to it. Like I've had, yeah, so many people reaching out who just can't access these resources, even from, you know, South Africa and other countries around the world. So I was like, man, I really want to be able to help more, but I need to, I need to get some qualifications behind me. Like I don't want to just be helping people based on my lived experience. I need to be able to come from all angles. So.

Yeah, that's what I'm doing with the podcast at the moment. And I'm really, really just trying to connect everyone together. Like there's some, some people that I've had on who provide free counseling services. So I know when I build my company in a couple of months, cause it, it'll launch this year. When I build my company in a couple of months and launch that if there's someone who comes to me who has addiction problems, let's say that they're dealing with some kind of trauma or something else that is going on underneath.

Lisa (52:36.995)
Mm -hmm.

Paris (53:05.884)
I'm not just like, you know, sorry, I'm not qualified to deal with that. Like, see you later. Like I can still take them and pass them onto someone else and work directly alongside someone else too with their recovery.

Lisa (53:20.035)
Thank you.

Chuck LaFLange (53:20.872)
right there and I spoke quite a bit about this recovery community and online at that. Once you get, once you start developing networks with people and the way that you quite obviously have and are focusing on doing, it becomes, I've had people from Ireland, South Africa, all over the United States, all over Canada. I don't think any Australians have reached out my way. No, no I have. I've had a couple long conversations with a couple of Australians as well about different things and you know where to send them.

It becomes, like I know, I don't care where you are in the world, if you need help, somebody in our network of content creators and podcasts and all that stuff has a resource in your backyard. Right? So it becomes this really cool fucking thing that we can do, right? People talk about how social media is not real and all this, all they want, but there's some really cool things that happen as a result of the interwebs, right? You know, yeah.

Lisa (53:53.141)
Mm -hmm. Mm

Paris (54:16.156)
Absolutely. Yeah, and I think it's so important that we're all coming together as this collective because it takes a village, as they say, to help one another. And we're humans, we thrive on connections. So I feel like having that community as a part of a way to recover is so vital in someone's recovery. Yeah, absolutely.

Lisa (54:17.191)
Mm -hmm.

Chuck LaFLange (54:24.744)
Yes.

Chuck LaFLange (54:38.08)
100%. Yeah, yeah it is. We need to move on to the gratitude. We've almost killed an hour here, but before I do that, did you have any other questions, anything you want to say?

Lisa (54:52.803)
No, I just, I think that, yeah, I think what you're doing sounds incredible. And I think quite similar Chuck to what you're doing, to be honest, you know, in terms of, you know, because we do have people on who tell their stories, but we also have a lot of people who come on who talk about their recovery journeys and, you know, people who have that lived experience who are now like both of you guys trying to give back, right? And,

Chuck LaFLange (55:00.272)
It is right.

Chuck LaFLange (55:05.524)
you

Lisa (55:17.955)
And we've seen firsthand on this show, like we've had people who have come to us who we've been able to connect to supports. And, you know, I agree that I think for a lot of people, one of the biggest barriers is just not knowing. They don't know where to go. They don't know who to call. They don't know what services are available. And particularly when you're in active addiction, you're in the survival mode. You know, it's like,

there's no pause button where you can go and research resources to go find help, right? So I think that the more people who are doing this, there are so many people suffering with addiction around the world. So many people that I think the more podcasts, the more that podcasts work together and spread the word.

Paris (55:58.428)
Yeah, yeah, big time.

Lisa (56:08.355)
the greater the chance that somebody is gonna be like, hey, like I saw this thing and maybe check that out, you know, because it's a huge barrier in mental health too. You know, like I always say, like I feel like if someone comes to the hospital, I'm like, I can help you. But there are so many people who don't even feel that they're worthy of coming to the hospital or people with addiction or mental health. Sometimes they don't think the hospital is where they belong, you know.

Paris (56:17.84)
Mm.

Paris (56:33.308)
Mm.

Lisa (56:34.051)
They think, well, I'm not having a heart attack, why would I go to the emergency department? And they don't even realize that there's incredible psychiatric supports available, addiction supports available in emergency departments. Like come to the hospital. Like, you know, I think it's again that thing where sometimes people believe that mental health is not an ailment. You know, that they don't, it's not worthy of presenting, that they're not worthy of asking for help. So I think...

Paris (56:38.556)
Yeah, so true.

Chuck LaFLange (56:56.616)
you

Paris (57:01.532)
Mm.

Lisa (57:03.107)
When it comes to mental health and addiction, which to me are one and the same, I think, right? It's like spread the word. I often say, like, I feel like we need to be standing on the hilltop screaming that we're here. There is help, you know? And so, yeah, just awesome that you're doing what you're doing.

Paris (57:07.548)
They are, they are hand in hand.

Paris (57:26.266)
Thank you.

Chuck LaFLange (57:26.376)
That said, that does bring us to my favorite part of the show, and that's the daily gratitudes. So, what you got for us today, Paris?

Paris (57:36.604)
Today I am very grateful for my partner that I have today now. He's my absolute soulmate and he's my biggest hype girl. Honestly listens to every single episode the second it comes out, buys all my merch. He is just, he is incredible and I am just so grateful for him. He just, yeah, biggest hype girl ever. He's always in my corner and I just feel so loved.

Chuck LaFLange (57:52.776)
hahahaha

Chuck LaFLange (58:02.792)
Does he like, share, and comment? Right? Depth, souls, souls. If he ever gets tired of your shit, send him my way. I will, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Paris (58:05.436)
He does! He does!

Paris (58:15.088)
Yeah, so I'm so grateful for him.

Chuck LaFLange (58:17.128)
That's awesome, that's awesome. Use it with your coffee to be gratitude.

Lisa (58:22.147)
I am grateful that I am healthy and I'm not really, I'm sick. But one of the things that I think about often, like if I get sick and I have a moment where I'm like, oh, this sucks and I'm feeling sorry for myself, when we're in Canada and it's minus 20 degrees outside and I'm like, oh, this sucks. And then I realize that I'm sitting inside by a fireplace. I'm always aware, like I...

maybe just having a brother, maybe the work that I do, but it's never lost on me that my cold's nothing. There are people out there who are really truly suffering and if all they had to worry about was a cold, life would be a breeze. Or...

when I'm sitting by my fireplace complaining that I have to go get in the car to go buy groceries. There are people out there who can't afford groceries. There are people out there who are freezing cold outside. So yeah, so having the cold is just making me, is a reminder for me that I'm incredibly lucky that that's, you know, the biggest problem I've had this week.

Chuck LaFLange (59:30.312)
I mean, it's obviously not man -called.

Lisa (59:33.621)
Well, that's a different thing, right? That's a different beast.

Chuck LaFLange (59:34.032)
That's a different kind of life. That's a whole new level, right? Absolutely.

Pam, Pam. Anyway, for myself.

I'm grateful for another great conversation. It never gets old on me, right? It just doesn't. Recovery community in general and how big and awesome and crazy it is, you know, as we continue to go, we continue to grow. I we've got some, ah, I'm I'm grateful for another great conversation, but we'll leave that one at that. I'm also grateful for every single person who continues to like, comment, share, buy goodies.

Hit the buttons down at the bottom. Do all the things. You know what to do. Every time you do any one of these things, you're getting us a little bit closer to living my best life. My best life is to make a humble living spreading the message. The message is this. If you're an active addiction right now, today could be that day. Today could be the day that you start a lifelong journey. Reach out to a friend, reach out to a family member, call into detox, go to a meeting, pray, go to church. I don't care. Do whatever it is you gotta do to get that journey started, because it is so much better than the alternative.

If you have a loved one who's suffering an addiction right now, just take the time to listen to our conversation. You just take one more minute out of your day and text that person. Let them know they're loved. Use the words.

Lisa (01:00:47.947)
You are love.

Paris (01:00:52.828)
I love.

Chuck LaFLange (01:00:55.208)
hope just might be the thing that brings him back.