Chuck LaFLange (00:02.217)
Hello everybody, watchers, listeners, supporters of all kinds. Welcome to another episode of The Weekend Rumble on the Ashes to Awesome podcast. I'm your host Chuck LaFlandre, checking in from Krabi, Thailand. Joining me from halfway around the world in Calgary, Alberta is my lovely co-host, Dr. Lisa. How you doing today, Lisa?
Lisa (00:15.104)
I'm very, very good. I had like, you're just talking offline about how you haven't slept in 24 hours. Well, I just had like 12 hours of sleep as I seem to be making a half-hour on Friday night.
Chuck LaFLange (00:17.223)
Yeah.
Chuck LaFLange (00:28.129)
This is how you started like the last three weeks now. That's wonderful. I'm happy for you. Also joining us at Virtual Studio from Saskatoon, Canada, is a good friend of mine, a special guest, that's Chantelle Hewlett. How are you doing today, Chantelle? Good. Why? There goes. Fuck sakes. Yeah.
Lisa (00:32.947)
I know.
Chantel Huel (00:45.154)
Good.
Chantel Huel (00:49.217)
Right? No.
Chantel Huel (00:53.49)
It's Saturday morning, 10.15. I'm usually not talking to anybody by 2 p.m. So I didn't brush my hair. I'm here.
Chuck LaFLange (01:00.805)
Well, well, we're glad you made the time, right? I think, is this the first time you guys have met now, right? Lisa and Chantelle? Yeah, yeah, okay, good, good. I'm glad we finally get to do that then, yeah. So going into today, I mean, we don't even have a topic in hand, which, I mean, some of our best episodes have come out that way, right? I mean, if I go back over the week real quick, a couple things.
Lisa (01:06.937)
Yeah.
Lisa (01:12.74)
Me too.
Chuck LaFLange (01:27.193)
Mike of course came in for Wednesday, he subbed in for Ryan, and we talked about 12 Stepping in a way. Did you get a chance to watch that Lisa, that episode yet? How was that, hey? Isn't he just the most, right, well spoken, knowledgeable, you know, he's got all the things down there, right.
Lisa (01:35.66)
I did. Amazing.
Lisa (01:44.664)
to like interject into that, that my, so my mom is very anal retentive. And so she had to go back and start the podcast at the beginning. Like she wouldn't watch episode 170 because she hadn't watched the first 169. And so she went back and I even remember her calling me and she's like, where's episode one?
Chuck LaFLange (01:52.637)
Yes.
Lisa (02:11.216)
Because I think it starts at six because Chris has taken some stuff down. And so she recently this week watched episode 147, which I think was Mike's first episode. Second, okay. So anyway, she has listened to that episode more than once this week. And she wanted me to pass on that you should reshare that episode.
Chuck LaFLange (02:13.198)
Yeah.
Chuck LaFLange (02:23.481)
second episode of this. Yeah.
Chuck LaFLange (02:30.689)
Kidding.
Chuck LaFLange (02:34.389)
Ah, I should actually upload it. Actually, Chantel, you might be interested in that one. Trauma being kind of something that you touch base on quite a bit. It was all about my partner's trauma is ruining our relationship. And to be honest, I titled it that not as an accusatory way, but just a kind of a clickbait way, like come and check this out, you know what I mean? Because I don't believe. I will, I will. He, ah.
Chantel Huel (02:47.118)
Come on.
Chantel Huel (02:52.91)
You should send that to me after this. You should send that. Yeah.
Chuck LaFLange (02:59.957)
Just the way he articulates things. And of course, he's more trauma-informed than anybody on the planet. He really helped to explore how we, how to navigate that situation. And really, at the end of the day, it comes from seek to understand, not to be understood. Right? And I think that statement, I just love that statement, right? That's Orionism on our show, but it's such a powerful thing. If we can take that attitude into every...
relationship in every conversation we have. Just imagine what a different planet we live on, right? Right? So I just said right twice again. Damn it. So it's to the audience. We're not allowed to say right apparently. I don't know, right? Or at least we're hyper aware of it. I know, I know. Right, right. Yeah, okay. Yeah. And I doubled up on it that time too. So there you go. But yeah. Yeah.
Chantel Huel (03:43.143)
We've already said it way too much.
Chantel Huel (03:48.563)
Right, right, right. Like, right.
Lisa (03:54.028)
I feel like it needs to go with the head bob. It's not just the word anymore. Now we need to write, right?
Chantel Huel (03:56.93)
Like a bubble hair. Right? Like right at the Roxbury?
Chuck LaFLange (03:57.161)
I'm sorry.
Chuck LaFLange (04:01.509)
Oh, and the data show devolved. Okay, yeah. You know what? We can talk about trauma. I'd much rather do that when Mike is with us, but it's not that the three of us... Well, I'm just, hey, I'm looking for things. Nobody's offering anything. I'm spitballing ideas here, so you know, you see what sticks. Yeah, Lisa, go ahead. Yeah.
Chantel Huel (04:14.894)
How about we just talk about whatever?
Lisa (04:17.391)
Mmm.
Chantel Huel (04:22.042)
Oh, I didn't know you, I didn't know off your table.
Lisa (04:23.12)
So I wanna-
Yeah, I am because I actually went back and was listening to the episode that you guys recorded. This morning. Yeah.
Chuck LaFLange (04:35.253)
Who's Chantal and I am in? Oh, okay, okay. Yeah, yeah, okay.
Chantel Huel (04:37.951)
Who?
Lisa (04:39.544)
What number is it? Do you remember the one I mean, right?
Chantel Huel (04:40.99)
Oh wait, that was in October.
Chuck LaFLange (04:42.745)
142 maybe something like that 182 okay, yeah, yeah my one-year date that one was yeah
Lisa (04:45.456)
182.
Lisa (04:49.853)
Mm-hmm. That's right. But I didn't know that you guys, like, maybe didn't know each other, it sounds like, but you hung out in similar circles once upon a time.
Chantel Huel (04:51.423)
Yeah.
Chuck LaFLange (05:02.004)
We were a minute away from crossing paths. Is pretty much how that played out, right? Yeah, yeah, right?
Lisa (05:05.005)
That's wild!
Chantel Huel (05:07.33)
I met his mom before, I didn't even meet his mom. I met his mom Yeah online before I met him He was in detox. I was just out on parole and this woman started like Following me and commenting on all of my stuff and I even said in that episode I was like, I'm kind of hesitant like what it what what's going on here my trauma
Chuck LaFLange (05:10.844)
Newer online. Yeah. Yeah
Lisa (05:16.528)
Crazy.
Chuck LaFLange (05:33.385)
Yeah.
Chantel Huel (05:33.618)
And then I connected with her and then all of a sudden he's messaging me, I have this podcast. I was like, fuck that. Like, I don't even think I answered you. I don't think I answered you the first time.
Chuck LaFLange (05:42.141)
You didn't, no. No, you accepted my friend request and then did not respond to me for like six months. Right?
Chantel Huel (05:47.894)
Yeah. Because that's how I roll. What are your intentions? What's really happening? I even talked it out with Dan. I was like, who is this guy? What are his intentions? What's going to happen to me? That's my trauma. That's my past speaking. So then I kept talking to his mom and then I couldn't figure out who was Chris and who is Chuck. It was the longest time. And I was like...
Chuck LaFLange (06:02.718)
Yeah.
Lisa (06:10.377)
Hahaha!
Chuck LaFLange (06:13.175)
I could do a whole podcast with who's Chris and who's Chuck right? But yeah
Chantel Huel (06:16.118)
And then he's like, they're both me, and I was like, well, what the fuck? Okay, yeah.
Chuck LaFLange (06:20.158)
Ha ha.
Lisa (06:20.376)
I know. Then the red flags around Tress go off even more. Why does he have two names?
Chantel Huel (06:25.878)
I'm sorry.
Lisa (06:28.034)
Right?
Chuck LaFLange (06:29.149)
Which is actually kind of funny, I have three names. If you look at my, because it's Lafont, I went by Lafont for 40 years. Yeah, right. So I went by Chris Lafont for 40 years, and then when I got to Alberta and I didn't have any ID, do you know, Chantel, did I ever tell you about this? I think Lisa's aware of it, but here's a great example about how hard it is to come out of the life and back into just trying to get your shit together. So I leave Saskatchewan.
Lisa (06:32.644)
Mmm.
Chantel Huel (06:37.794)
Yeah, he has three names.
Chuck LaFLange (06:58.185)
Keeping in mind, I was in Alberta most of my life, first half of my life anyway, driver's license, jail, passport, all under LeFond. I get to Saskatchewan, driver's license, jail, passport, all under LeFond. So 40 years after I, because my mom, it was an assumed name from when she married my stepdad, I get back to Alberta, I'm like, okay, I need to get my license, you know, I go into the thing and I get my birth certificate, which has hoarder on it, the name that I go by now, my birth certificate.
And I go into the registry and I say, okay, I'm Chris LaFont, and I gave him all the same stuff that I've always used to get my ID, and they're like, this doesn't say LaFont, you're not LaFont. You're gonna have to get, you're gonna have to get Saskatchewan to call us and confirm that. I'm like, really? I'm gonna get on the phone with Saskatchewan and convince them that I'm Chris LaFont to call you and verify that? What are you talking about, right? Like, this is never gonna happen. A, I owe them a bunch of money, and B, like, what the fuck?
Lisa (07:50.765)
Yeah.
Chuck LaFLange (07:54.937)
So I ended up calling 311, like that situation went really bad. I ended up calling the provincial information line. And they said, well, you're going to have to do a legal name change. I've been homeless for almost two years. A legal name change is a trip to Mars. Like, do you understand how unattainable that is for me? I can't get a bank account. I can't get social services. I can't get anything without ID. And it's like, I just want to adult.
Chantel Huel (08:20.386)
Yeah.
Chuck LaFLange (08:22.845)
Right, can somebody please, the easiest path for me was to go back to a name I hadn't used in 40 years. By far the easiest path was, and to start going by order. Yeah, right, in the end. Yes, yes, right, yeah. So when my mom remarried, my stepdad never adopted us. We just, she just gave us a name. But it used to be, it was called an assumed name change declaration.
Lisa (08:23.054)
Mm-hmm.
Chantel Huel (08:32.31)
Yes.
Lisa (08:34.168)
So was Horter your dad's name?
Chuck LaFLange (08:49.253)
So you could go in front of a notary and get your name changed with just by saying, yes, I've been known by Lafont for 20 years, 10 years, whatever the number was. COVID though, they got rid of that form because the fraudsters went crazy when everything went online. Right? Like
Chantel Huel (08:57.387)
Yeah.
Chantel Huel (09:08.362)
wine syrup. They wanted to collect syrup.
Chuck LaFLange (09:09.797)
Yeah, right. Yeah, I mean, there was it was it was crazy. People were taking identities left, right and center. The assumed name change form just was like not a thing anymore. They couldn't do it. So they got rid of it. So there's no way to prove that that's who I am. So I had to go back to a name I hadn't used in 40 years. Fortunately, my. By blood, I'm a hoarder.
Chantel Huel (09:18.338)
Yeah.
Chantel Huel (09:27.214)
So who are you really then? Please tell us.
Lisa (09:28.952)
haha
Chuck LaFLange (09:32.925)
But, and I never, mom never got a legal name change for us. So I am Chris Porter, technically, yes. Chris LaFont is who I've been known for as forever. And Chuck LaFlandre was just a name that came up in a crazy acid fueled night one night back when we were like 18 years old. And I've since used it for all sorts of nefarious purposes. So when I started the podcast and wanted to remain anonymous, I just kind of went with Chuck LaFlandre, right? And it's got a better ring to it for the whole, you know, voice personality, right? You know, Chuck LaFlandre, it's got a nice ring. So I've just kind of kept it now. I don't really care for it.
Chantel Huel (09:58.668)
Yeah.
Chuck LaFLange (10:03.379)
I don't care to use it. I rarely do I it's just for the purposes of the show and I don't really care who knows who I am right, so yeah
Chantel Huel (10:10.058)
Nice.
Lisa (10:11.197)
What were the thoughts in the early days of the podcast? Like, you're only talking a year ago, right? We're not going back 20 years. Why were you wanting to be anonymous?
Chuck LaFLange (10:22.897)
My stories were all crazy drug-fueled. I was trying to be funny and tell some crazy, oh, you've heard the stories, right? They were nuts back then, right? And I was trying to respect the people that were in the stories and keep their names anonymous as well. And when I found the why for Ash is Awesome, that's when everything changed, right? And then by that point, the monster had been created. I didn't really, I just kind of went with it, but.
Now it went from trying to entertain people to trying to help people. And well, you know, so yeah, now I don't care if people know my name because, you know, we're trying to do something good.
Lisa (10:55.696)
Yeah.
Chantel Huel (10:56.502)
Once your intent and your purpose changes, then everything changes, right? Right?
Chuck LaFLange (11:00.357)
Right?
Chantel Huel (11:06.626)
Just have lip-lash by the end of the show?
Chantel Huel (11:13.892)
And I think intentions...
Chuck LaFLange (11:14.064)
I hope you get a neck crick. I hope that happens. I hope you're like, yeah.
Chantel Huel (11:19.73)
Intentions and purpose as you heal and you work through your stuff are ever evolving. So you might have many more names. No, I'm just kidding.
Chuck LaFLange (11:27.997)
Yes, yeah, very true.
Lisa (11:28.289)
Mm-hmm.
Chantel Huel (11:37.118)
Like, I identified as Pennywise this week. I didn't even know it, so...
Chuck LaFLange (11:42.525)
Well, and your other alter ego Captain Cooked, right? There is that too. Yeah.
Chantel Huel (11:44.834)
Captain's hugs. Ready?
Lisa (11:48.004)
So it's so funny that you just said Pennywise. This is like a total aside irrelevant story, but I have to tell you, I have a six year old daughter and I went to pick her up from school one day this week. And she's outside running around the school playground. And then she stops in the middle of the playground, looks at me and she's like, mom, is Pennywise the clown real?
Chantel Huel (12:12.711)
Yeah, I'm raging in.
Lisa (12:12.996)
And I was like...
Lisa (12:17.592)
like, what are you talking about? So apparently some little boy at school has told her about Pennywise the clown and now she's wanting me to verify if Pennywise is real or not and I was just like I'm not ready for this conversation. We're not gonna talk about Pennywise the clown. Right? I'm gonna go online and find some happy clown and be like that's Pennywise right there. Look at how happy Pennywise looks.
Chantel Huel (12:31.754)
And exactly, you're six.
Chuck LaFLange (12:35.15)
I'm so...
Chuck LaFLange (12:42.385)
You're such a better human being than me. You are such a better human being than me. Because I would have been like, yep. Absolutely. Yeah.
Lisa (12:48.046)
haha
Chantel Huel (12:51.102)
I probably would have been the same. I would have been the same, yeah.
Lisa (12:55.06)
You say that until you're the parent at three o'clock in the morning who's getting called into the room because she's afraid.
Chantel Huel (12:59.786)
I have you with my grandkids. And I had custody of them.
Chuck LaFLange (13:05.505)
Absolutely. She would never walk past the storm drain again with the same attitude. Like ever. Right? Nope. Fuck's sake.
Lisa (13:10.991)
Right?
Chantel Huel (13:12.554)
Right?
Lisa (13:15.216)
But it's funny, because I haven't thought of or heard about Pennywise the Clown in many years, and now twice in the span of four days I've heard two people bring up Pennywise, so there we go.
Chantel Huel (13:24.29)
So I can't, why did I post that picture? Was it my sobriety date or something? The one that you made? I don't do my hair, I don't wear makeup, I don't do anything, I just.
Chuck LaFLange (13:31.286)
Something like that, yeah.
Chuck LaFLange (13:37.424)
Oh.
Chantel Huel (13:38.866)
It's from here for me. So it doesn't matter what I look like because it's all about heart So I did my makeup last weekend. Yeah, I was taking 65 months of Recovery better be careful how I say that and Somebody made a comment that I look like Pennywise and I was like This is why I don't even do it. Yeah, and it's not even bad
turned it into a meme. It's a really good picture. Like I very rarely do anything with myself and then just this wicked comment came on Trap House Testimonies and I was like I hope you have an amazing week.
Chuck LaFLange (14:04.771)
No, it's a good picture, right? Like, yeah, it doesn't like.
Lisa (14:20.44)
people assholes like really?
Chantel Huel (14:21.834)
Right? We were talking about that before you came on, like some of the comments through our social media. It's like going into the battlefield of like put on your armour, but then it's just hurt people hurt people. Or people don't understand. The world's crazy.
Chuck LaFLange (14:31.77)
Yeah, yeah it is.
Lisa (14:35.129)
I know.
Chuck LaFLange (14:35.518)
No kidding.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I was actually, the reason that we did that last episode with Mike, I gotta find that meme real quick while we're talking here. Or not meme, it was a screenshot that I took of a comment about the recovery community. And I don't know if you got a chance to read that. Heartbreaking, heartbreaking that somebody feels this way. And I was just, I was left really.
Lisa (14:38.725)
Yeah.
Lisa (14:57.744)
Go.
Chantel Huel (15:06.018)
What?
Chuck LaFLange (15:07.293)
Disturbed. Okay.
Lisa (15:08.656)
the one where you posted and said like something about we're not doing this right or we need to do better or yeah.
Chuck LaFLange (15:12.593)
Yes, yeah, yeah it is, it is. And I just found it here now, so I'm gonna read it to you. The sober community is by far the most toxic community I have ever seen, man. All of us have almost died and destroyed our lives to finally get off hard drugs, even if you're on subs or methadone, just to get completely put down about being a junkie in denial, what a shit show. Right? Yeah, I will, I will, yeah, yeah. Right?
Chantel Huel (15:35.17)
Can you send me that? I felt that to my core. I felt that to my, like.
Chuck LaFLange (15:41.661)
Right? And it really, it sincerely like upsets me that one person feels that way.
Chantel Huel (15:46.71)
Those are the reasons I don't go to the rooms. Those are the reasons I don't go to 12 step meetings. Those are the reasons I had to find a different way because for myself, when I was in those spaces and those places, it was more toxic than actually being in the trap house in Regina.
Chuck LaFLange (15:55.805)
Yeah, yeah.
Chuck LaFLange (16:06.494)
Yeah.
Chantel Huel (16:06.722)
There's so much judgment, there's so much shame, and it's like, why do I want to be around this? I don't want to be around this. I'll recover, like, however I do it.
Chuck LaFLange (16:17.813)
Now imagine that if one person said it, a thousand persons thought it, right? Like we can all agree on that. How many people feel that shame? And in this day and age, don't go back to a meeting and end up going back out and not coming back period, right? And that to me is just, that's the heartbreaking part of it, right? Like we've got to do better than that. We just have to.
Chantel Huel (16:34.87)
Yeah.
Chuck LaFLange (16:45.313)
So and that's been my latest crusade in the comments is attacking people that are that are propagating that shit right and just and beating people up for it. It's one thing to say I need to be clean and sober for my recovery right but you got no business telling anybody else right you know unless if I come to you and I want you to be my sponsor then your opinion very much matters because this is not gonna work if that's
Lisa (16:45.995)
so.
Lisa (16:51.888)
Mm-hmm.
Chuck LaFLange (17:11.057)
Right? But until that point, stay the fuck out of anybody's recovery. Sorry for the language. Sorry, at least I didn't mean to cut you off, but, you know, yeah.
Lisa (17:15.877)
Mm-hmm.
Chantel Huel (17:16.109)
Why are you starting?
Lisa (17:19.028)
That's okay. I was just going to say like, you know, I see a lot of stigma.
when I'm at work amongst colleagues who don't get it, you know, people who don't understand addiction, don't have an interest in addiction or not educated in addiction. And I've told the story before, but Chantelle maybe hasn't heard it, but I remember being on labor and delivery as a medical resident or medical student or something. And a lady came in the labor and she was addicted to heroin. And
the obstetrician who was on going to deliver her baby was like a 60 something year old Caucasian man, right? And so he started like chirping and making these comments about, you know, her and that, you know, I don't remember the exact language, but just tons of judgment and, you know, like, and you can imagine how this poor girl felt, right? Having to come in knowing full well how people are going to judge her.
And so they were prepping her for a C-section and him and I were sitting in a room just chatting. And I was like, you know, I actually have an interest in addiction medicine. And he was like, oh, really? And I said, like, do you realize that like the frontal lobe of her brain is not working? Like it's like shut off. And he was like, oh, like, you know, I didn't really know that. And so we started talking and I'm not kidding you, in five minutes.
of talking about what her drug use had caused in her brain in terms of areas that were shut off, areas that were over-activated. And in five minutes, there was such a huge shift in his view of her, his judgment of her, like it was so quick. And so I take any opportunity to like spout stuff like this to people at work.
Lisa (19:25.008)
But I'm really curious, like, for both of you, like, where do you think this comes from, that people who've been there somehow feel like it's okay, it's helpful? I don't know what the hell they feel, but why do you think people who've lived it, like, because I see the people on the other side who maybe have no experience with it judging it. But what do you think kind of drives people who've been there to then pass judgment on other people?
Chantel Huel (19:54.134)
Ego. I say it's 100% ego.
Chuck LaFLange (19:55.717)
I was, thank you. It is without a doubt, it's eco.
Lisa (19:56.644)
Yeah.
Chantel Huel (19:58.994)
It is you. I am better than you because I overcame this and you're still in the trap. Like, if you make it out of the trap, if you do alive, and you find recovery, you're no better than the person that's still sitting in there. There's no difference. We're all equal. We're all walking each other home. But there's so many divides in this world. It's like, so ugly.
Chuck LaFLange (20:14.409)
Nope.
Chantel Huel (20:27.062)
Like, the person I was talking to, or whatever your name is, I don't even know you anymore. Before you came on, if I'm not sticking a needle in my arm today like I was a year ago, and I'm smoking weed now, who the fuck are you to judge me for smoking weed? I don't smoke weed, I don't get along with weed, never did. But, like, I don't-
Chuck LaFLange (20:27.167)
Yeah.
Chantel Huel (20:53.83)
especially if you've been there and I see it most from the people my cat's somewhere doing freaky shit um well I'm trying to find her I'll just hear her but like you were there you were once in those people's shoes
Lisa (21:13.91)
Yeah.
Chantel Huel (21:14.442)
Who are you to put shame and stigma and labels and judgment? Like, never forget where you come from.
Chuck LaFLange (21:24.265)
kidding right, no kidding. I think, I agree with you 100% ego is in one way shape or form the driver for that. I mean it's always going to be right, whether it's an I'm better than you thing or whether it's a need to validate your own experience right, which is you know and Mike spoke to this too where if that's what it took for somebody to turn their life around to be 100% completely chemical free and mind-altering and all the all the terms.
Lisa (21:24.329)
Mm-hmm.
Chuck LaFLange (21:53.097)
That's a passionate subject to them. So you can I don't think it comes from a place of malice Ego is definitely a part of that and I but I maybe it just comes from this protecting What worked for me thing? You know what I mean? Because none of those groups were started with the intent on shaming people Nobody went into that thinking that and I think maybe it's outside of their awareness that what they're actually doing to people when they do It right I kind of like to give people more
Lisa (22:12.772)
Mm-hmm.
Chuck LaFLange (22:20.157)
more credit than that anyway, typically. I think people are generally good. But there's another layer of it these days. And I hate to sound like that, you don't get it, you know, things were different now and all that. But they are, they're very, very different than they ever were before, right? 20 years ago, heroin was the worst thing ever. And it was bad and people died.
Lisa (22:21.85)
Mm-hmm.
Chuck LaFLange (22:45.133)
Nobody we've never experienced anything like we are experienced outside of war and plague we have never seen the kind of death that is happening now and Quite frankly what worked for you when alcohol and coke and heroin were the thing It might be irrelevant now right, it just it just might be and if the goal goes from Clean and sober to saving lives then all sorts of shit opens up to us, right, you know, right like
Lisa (22:55.28)
Mm-hmm.
Lisa (23:04.131)
Mm-hmm.
Chantel Huel (23:04.618)
I agree. Oh, fine.
Chantel Huel (23:13.598)
When the drugs are completely, and they're only gonna get worse. Like they're gonna get worse.
Chuck LaFLange (23:17.801)
Yeah. Can you imagine? They made fentanyl, then they made carfentanil, then they started adding xylazine and benzos. And it was just like, how did you make, what brand of evil made the worst thing the world has ever seen worse? Right? You know, like.
Lisa (23:18.224)
Mm-hmm.
Lisa (23:30.486)
Mm-hmm
Yeah.
Chantel Huel (23:35.378)
There'll be something new within the next few months.
Chuck LaFLange (23:39.337)
It seems that way, doesn't it, right? Like it's that happens that fast. Me personally, and it's something like, and I spoke about it as well. When I relapsed after 34 days, my first 34 days ever as an adult, and most of my teens at that clean and sober, what stopped me from going back after like a day and a half was the idea of having to go back to zero and say that in front of everybody.
Chantel Huel (24:01.58)
Sorry.
Lisa (24:05.028)
Mm.
Chuck LaFLange (24:06.917)
So what could have been a day and a half, should have been a day and a half, turned out to be a better part of a year in relapse, right? And that's not to blame that on the rooms. It's just to say that, and I'm a pretty confident, self-aware, all those things, whatever, don't give a shit guy, but if it affected me like that, that's just how sensitive and how easy it is to lose somebody back out there, right? So if you're gonna start shaming people outright,
Right? You're gonna start losing them real fast. Real fast, right? No, no, there isn't, there isn't, right?
Lisa (24:35.428)
Mm-hmm.
Chantel Huel (24:37.55)
There's no room for shame in recovery. There's not, right? Guilt, I did something wrong. Shame, I am something wrong. Know the difference.
Chuck LaFLange (24:47.673)
Oh, I love that. I love that. That was something recent. I don't know where I saw that. Maybe it was. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So.
Chantel Huel (24:52.67)
on my post maybe? Yeah.
Lisa (24:55.184)
Mm-hmm. And really, I think, you know, to me, to be sober and to be still so driven by ego, to me, tells me you still have a lot of work to do. You know, because if you see someone in active addiction, there's also so much ego, right? And so it's like, if you're sober and you're still so egotistical that you're judging and putting down other people.
Chantel Huel (25:09.698)
You're still hurting.
Lisa (25:24.224)
I'm like, dude, you're only halfway there. Like the drugs are gone, but there's a, yeah. Yeah.
Chuck LaFLange (25:27.708)
Mm-hmm
Chantel Huel (25:29.558)
but you still have the behaviours that you're using. So you're clean but you're dry drunk, right? And that's the self-work that one has to reflect on, like me, I have to work on me, to not displace those behaviours or deflect them onto other people. So the chances are if you don't want to do that self-work and the heart work, you're gonna go back to using.
Chuck LaFLange (25:31.997)
Yeah. Yeah, right.
Chuck LaFLange (25:38.723)
Yeah.
Chuck LaFLange (25:58.309)
Yep.
Lisa (25:58.497)
Yeah.
Chantel Huel (26:00.834)
That's the reality.
Chuck LaFLange (26:01.445)
true. Yeah it is. Yeah it is.
Lisa (26:02.992)
And I think, you know, like as a family member of somebody, like I've also had a bad experience, Chantel, like going to an Al-Anon meeting. You know, I went into an Al-Anon meeting once. And again, not to suggest that it would only be in an Al-Anon meeting that someone would experience something like this, but that's for me where I experienced it. And...
I may very well have gone to 10 other Al-Anon meetings the same day and not had this experience, but I still think when it happens, it should be talked about because it should be corrected. And I was sitting in an Al-Anon meeting in the same building where my brother was sitting a few floors up in a detox clinic and my phone rang. And literally like the meeting stopped and everybody looked at me and they were like, do not answer that call, like do not answer him.
And it was literally the encouragement was to like, I get obviously not enabling, but it wasn't that. It was like literally like to not answer him, to not speak to him. Now granted this was 20 something years ago, like would this still happen today? I hope not, but maybe. And I walked out and I never went back.
Chuck LaFLange (27:16.458)
Well, I think we've seen enough social media conversations to know that, yeah, it could and often does.
Chantel Huel (27:22.23)
Yeah, I went into an Al-Anon meeting and I introduced myself as an addict and uh, whoo, never went back. If looks could kill I would be dead, but you know what? It's the reality of it is there's addicts who need to also go because they're in relationships with other addicts.
Lisa (27:28.709)
Mm-hmm.
Lisa (27:38.319)
HAAA
Chuck LaFLange (27:49.073)
Right, right, yeah, right.
Chantel Huel (27:51.198)
But their mindset and their frame of thinking is like you leave and you do this and don't answer that phone call And I'm like, yeah, no, that's not that's not a harm reduction approach That's not like at the end of the day the addicts done when the addicts done. It's not our choice But we don't have to the same thing. We don't have to shame them. We don't have to judge them and just my name is Chantelle I'm an addict and then I was just like Gotta go
Chuck LaFLange (28:07.765)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Lisa (28:21.776)
So what actually happened? Like, were they just being rude or did they not?
Chantel Huel (28:25.17)
It was just the looks and you know you can feel the vibes and energy speaks volumes in a room like that. And I just knew. So I stuck it out but I never went back.
Lisa (28:35.055)
Mm-hmm.
Lisa (28:40.528)
I just feel like anything that ends with, I never went back matters. Cause it's just like.
Chuck LaFLange (28:46.569)
Yeah. One person said it, thousand people thought it, right? So how many people don't go back? I had an experience. This one, this one, I know you've heard me talk about this, Lisa. Back in Calgary, there's a woman that I interviewed for the podcast. It didn't work out because of tech issues, so I didn't end up airing the episode. But her husband, all the things, addict, you know, whatever, horrible behaviors.
Chantel Huel (28:46.69)
Right?
Chuck LaFLange (29:13.509)
Her friends had said to her, so she had let him come back, they had been separated for some time, divorced for some time actually at this point, like years. So it wasn't a romantic thing, but he had nowhere to go, and she's, Kay, you can come sleep on the couch, you're gonna give another shot, whatever. Her friends and family, she had to hide that from her friends and family because they had all said to her, we will not continue speaking to you if you let him back into your life. Isn't that horrible?
Lisa (29:16.453)
Mmm.
Chantel Huel (29:35.042)
That's such toxic behavior. It is.
Lisa (29:35.321)
Yeah.
Lisa (29:38.512)
Mm-hmm.
Chuck LaFLange (29:38.609)
Right? Like, just like, what? Right? This is a person that needs support more than anybody in the world. Right? And you're not doing that for their good, you're doing it because you don't want to deal with it. Right? At the end of the day, that's what that is, you know? And the same goes, I've said this before, I got a lot of flack when I said it, but I'll say it again. If somebody, if somebody is left to their own devices, and manages to come out of it,
They did that in spite of you, not because of you. You know what I mean? If you let somebody just out there and you cut them off and they get sober, that wasn't because of you. It was in spite of you. And you're allowed to protect yourself and your family and healthy boundaries and all those things. And it's up to you what you wanna deal with in your life. I get it. So it's not even necessarily an accusation at anybody, but it is not because of you that they got sober.
Lisa (30:06.832)
Hehehe
Lisa (30:19.929)
Yeah.
Chantel Huel (30:25.422)
Yes!
Lisa (30:34.8)
Mm hmm. Because it does kind of perpetuate, you know, like then if they have a friend who has a loved one, if their loved one was lucky enough to get out of it, then I could see them being like, well, I just cut them off and they got better. That's what you should do. You know? Yeah.
Chuck LaFLange (30:35.493)
Right? Yeah.
Chuck LaFLange (30:49.053)
Yes, that's what happens. That is 100% what happens. Go into any of the family groups on Facebook and watch how fast that feeding frenzy starts. Right, right? You've seen it, Lisa, right? Yeah, right? It's, yeah.
Lisa (30:58.312)
Oh, yeah, I know. And it is interesting. I have for sure. And I think it's interesting, Chuck, because I don't know if Chantel has seen it, but there's been these groups that Chris is in. And you're very good at engaging and being very even kind of keeled. But comments where people are rah-rah, cut people off, shut them out, and Chris even.
proposes the idea of love them, just love them. And Chris, like you said, there's times I've seen these conversations where you're explicit, like you're like, you can have boundaries, you can protect yourself. Loving somebody doesn't mean you're a doormat and he gets attacked and like.
Chantel Huel (31:39.758)
Exactly. I got attacked on the same type of thing. And then, and then I was like, bro, can you go to that post like back me up here? You remember it? And it's.
Chuck LaFLange (31:44.08)
Mm-hmm. All right. Yeah.
Chuck LaFLange (31:53.097)
Absolutely.
Chantel Huel (31:56.546)
But people, yeah, same thing. Yeah, I've seen it.
Chuck LaFLange (32:00.257)
It's crazy, right?
Lisa (32:00.688)
The problem is, sometimes I see these conversations and part of me wants to jump in because I'm like, I feel like Chris is getting beat up on or something. But the other part of me is like, you can't speak to stupid. And that sounds really terrible, but it's like there are some of these people you can just tell by the shit they're saying. That it's like, to shift them is going to take a lot more than a Facebook post or a Facebook comment.
Chantel Huel (32:26.198)
But unless until it happens to them and then they might and then they might get it.
Chuck LaFLange (32:31.059)
Ah, right.
Chuck LaFLange (32:35.425)
you know I shut down one the other day. Oh I wish I could pull it up. I'm not going to. I'll just describe it. I really like I really shut it down. It was a video of this woman and it's called Don't Meth with America. I think is the page. It's horrible. It's a video of this. She looks like she's in her 30s. She's probably in her 20s because of the way you know the
Chuck LaFLange (33:06.101)
and saying things that just didn't make sense and whatever. And the whole, the video was made to laugh at her. And the entire, like the comment was just full of people laughing and carrying on. And I had to, you know, you know this is somebody's daughter. You know her family's hearts are breaking right now. Right, like do fucking better. And somebody came on and said, who cares? So I went to his profile.
There is a picture of him and his grandbaby, his baby, his granddaughter baby. He's holding her, just looking adorable. So I blurred out the grandbaby's face, put a picture up in the comment and said, if it was her, you'd care. End of conversation, right? You know, end of conversation, just like that.
Right? You know, and it's that's what it takes. And Lisa, I'll speak to that like you just know and you can just tell. You talked about already that doctor, that 67 year old doctor. It took you five minutes to turn him around. So maybe in these conversations and maybe, and you're right sometimes it's futile. But just maybe, maybe somebody reads it. Maybe it's not the person that you're arguing with. Maybe it's somebody else. Maybe somebody reads it and says, fuck he's right.
Lisa (33:53.347)
Yeah.
Lisa (34:02.107)
Mm-hmm.
Lisa (34:17.088)
Yeah, that's true. It's true.
Chuck LaFLange (34:17.825)
you know what I mean? And maybe it's just the perspective of somebody somewhere, right?
Lisa (34:22.212)
And I feel like for some reason those conversations, I've never had a conversation like that in person and felt like it had been a waste or had been ineffective, but online, like I just feel like people sit behind the safety of a computer screen with their anonymity and they blurt out like stupid stuff and nonsense. And I sometimes I, you know, I agree, like it is still worth being said because you don't know who's going to read it. But.
Chantel Huel (34:47.726)
Yeah.
Lisa (34:50.412)
It's just so hard, like social media is so hard. Like.
Chuck LaFLange (34:53.753)
Yadis, right? But, hey, you know.
Chantel Huel (34:56.59)
There's so many sick people that need to get healthy behind those keyboards. They claim they are, but you can tell that they're not.
Chuck LaFLange (35:01.117)
Yeah, there is. Yeah, there is. And should I tell hurt people hurt people, right? This is one of yours. I mean, it's much bigger than you, but it's one of the ones that when I think it, you're the person I think of because, you know, in our last episode together. And I think we on this side of this whole issue, if you want to call it a side, if you want to call it an issue,
These people that are saying these things, it comes from somewhere. They are hurt as well. Right? You know? And so, and even the people with the most malicious shit to say, right? And Chantelle in our episode two, you had talked about that how great it is to have these positive relationships with people who you've had really bad.
Chantel Huel (35:30.706)
It comes from a place of pain. Yep.
Chuck LaFLange (35:47.033)
experiences within the past, right, in our active days. I mean, we have one mutual friend, for example, who I, you know who I'm talking about, the big guy there. But, it's the same thing, these people, they're hurting. They're hurting. And as pissed off as I wanna get at them, I try to remind myself that, you know, on that side of it, it's the same thing, right?
Chantel Huel (36:09.39)
One, everybody heals from that pain different. And everybody, like, it's not linear. There's no timeframe to it. So you might be here and this person might be here and I might be way further ahead, but we're all still, the bigger picture's all the same for us. It's just how we get there. Yeah, I said that when I presented to corrections.
Chuck LaFLange (36:13.449)
Yeah.
Chuck LaFLange (36:32.477)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well said, well said, right? Yeah.
Lisa (36:32.624)
Mm-hmm.
Chantel Huel (36:39.182)
Correctional Services of Canada. I'm sitting in a room full of ex-
officers who are now upper management and parole officers and I couldn't even breathe. There's 400 people in that room and I stood up and I was like I can't do this and I had to message my prison elder. I was like there's so much like power exertion like abuse power sitting in this room and maybe five of them had helped me on my journey. I was like I can't do this and she's like just get up there. So then I broke the ice.
Lisa (37:04.4)
Mm-hmm.
Chantel Huel (37:15.764)
How hard is it for me to stand in front of you? Because really, half of them, the reality is, have abuse power over me, have stripped me naked. I told Chris yesterday, he's like, what's new in your week? What's the topic? I was like, my asshole. Like, my asshole. Because I presented to two roomfuls of correctional officers and parole officers, right?
But trying to tell them and have them understand the same thing. We're all human. Eight million people in the world, we're all human. None of you sitting in this room are any better than me. But that's the same as people in recovery, right? But people don't understand that because. Yeah, we're all just walking each other home. Don't let don't let your title or your status or your
Lisa (38:03.472)
Mm-hmm.
Chuck LaFLange (38:05.745)
Ego. Yeah, yeah, I like that. I really like that.
Chantel Huel (38:13.726)
whatever make you better than just because you're a warden or and because you're one choice away from being in that iron cage reality is you have a drink you kill somebody driving like people are one choice away and they don't recognize that one choice they could have a whole different life
Chuck LaFLange (38:14.901)
clean time or whatever, right? Yeah, yeah.
Lisa (38:15.541)
Mm-hmm.
Chuck LaFLange (38:21.319)
No.
Lisa (38:26.809)
Mm-hmm.
Lisa (38:39.268)
Yeah, yeah, I agree. And I see that at work all the time, you know, and I've spoken about it many times, but I think people who grow up with a lot of privilege and have never personally experienced seeing somebody fall and just how, how different somebody, you know, and speaking specifically to addiction, but it's like,
I'll see someone in a merge who is really unwell, inactive addiction. They're obviously not taking care of themselves. They're not eating. They might be living on the streets. And I know full well, cause I've lived it in my family, that same person could have been in a suit, you know, dressed to the nines, clean, smelling good, all of those things just months ago.
But I think there's a lot of people when you haven't seen a person that you know, legitimately go from here to here, who don't believe that that's real, who look at them and it's a, that's, that's them, you know, there's us and there's them. And it's like, no, there isn't, you know, um,
Chuck LaFLange (39:54.841)
Yeah. Nope.
Chantel Huel (39:56.482)
Right? There's so much of us in them, but it's not. People don't understand that.
Chuck LaFLange (40:01.373)
No, no, no. If you look at the 15 years ish that I was in Saskatchewan, when I got there, I was coming out of a shit situation in Calgary. I literally had a suitcase. My mom was like helping me buy groceries and whatever. Halfway through that journey, I'm flying to Mexico, Panama, Jamaica with the company because I'm management. Then I own four vape shops in four cities.
You know, I'm sitting in the legislature, I'm having a meeting with Brad Wall and Dustin Duncan, the health minister at the time. Four years later, I'm homeless. Right? There's peaks and valleys, guys. You know, right? Yeah, four years later. Four years later, five years later, I'm carrying fentanyl, even though I don't do it, just in case that's the day I want to kill myself. Like that's, we are all, right? None of us are any better, right? You know, so.
Lisa (40:44.688)
Totally.
Lisa (40:56.784)
And again, like, you know, I've seen people who were living good lives, who had good lives, who were very, like had very privileged lives, who had trauma. And then subsequent to the trauma, ended up, you know, going from somebody who'd never smoked a joint to somebody who was in active addiction with hardcore illicit drugs, because they had found some relief from that. But then of course, you know, all the consequences start to pile up.
And yeah, so it's so true. And I've had people say to me, like I used to judge people for smoking weed and now here I am have lost everything and literally can't control my use of some illicit drug. And it's like, I've seen people in legitimate shock going, how did I get here? Like I was not one of those people. And it's just like, but like.
there aren't those people. And any one of us through any series of decisions, consequences, can end up in that very position. And people don't believe that until they see it or experience it or witness it firsthand. Yeah. I know.
Chuck LaFLange (42:14.849)
crazy. It's crazy. Ah, it gets me riled up, that one does.
Lisa (42:20.648)
I know, I know. Chantelle, I know that you talked about in the podcast that I was listening to this morning that you don't really talk about your story. So I'm not going to ask you about your story. But I'm just curious. So you're now like what five years sober. Is that right?
Chantel Huel (42:34.87)
Yeah, next month I'll be five and a half. Yeah. I, there's, yeah.
Lisa (42:37.328)
five and a half, which is amazing. Can you, like, would you share like a little bit about, cause I don't know if you had tried recovery many times, or was it a never tried it and then tried it and got it, or like, what was different about this time that you think you're now almost five and a half years?
Chantel Huel (42:57.479)
So I mean Chris knows this, Chuck knows this, that other guy knows this. For me it was um...
My last federal sentence, I woke up, it's in the podcast, but my daughter was my cellmate. I don't talk about my story, I don't share my story, I share bits and pieces of my recovery because I believe if I open Pandora's box again then more is going to come. But I woke up and my daughter was my cellmate and she got charged for attempted murder and then my mom died.
And there was a time lapse for me. So I thought if I'm going to be out there living this life and I'm going to be getting high and I'm going to be committing crime and doing all of this stuff, when I decide to stop, time will be exactly where I left it. And I was wrong. So I seen my mom on her deathbed.
Chuck LaFLange (43:50.633)
Hey, so I know I look amazing, though.
Chantel Huel (43:58.414)
So many things happened in my favour that aren't coincidence. I don't believe in coincidence. There's a greater hand in my life watching out for me. And I got to see my mom and there was nothing left of her and she didn't look the same. And she said, make me proud. Stop living your life this way.
Chuck LaFLange (44:00.273)
I hate them crazy. But if you guys have anything.
Chantel Huel (44:25.238)
Like, promise me that you will do this. And she said that to my daughter because my daughter went to see her and she said that to all of my kids. Not stop living your life this way, but make me proud. And those are the last words that all of us remember her saying. For me, I made a commitment to those words and I remember them every day. So that's a part where...
Lisa (44:36.528)
Thanks for watching!
Chantel Huel (44:51.65)
Norma plays in my life, Chris's mom. My mom never got to see me do good because I was still incarcerated. So she didn't get to see the change and Chris's mom always reminds me she does see it.
You know, and then if you need a hug from a mom, like Norma's there for me, I can talk to her. I have many, many moms in recovery. Moms start the harm and other people's moms who have given of themselves to me, but it was that commitment to my mom. And then becoming my daughter's cellmate. I mean, we're not supposed to, I'm not supposed to be incarcerated with my child.
Lisa (45:31.62)
Hmm.
Chantel Huel (45:37.898)
I'm not supposed to role model that. I'm not supposed to be here co-accused. I'm not supposed to have a no-contact order with my child. So just so many things happened that opened my eyes while I was incarcerated this last time. And the people that I had on my journey to help me inside weren't CSC, they weren't, they were contracted to come in. So it was...
the chaplains, the elders, AA at the time, not saying I was all about the meetings, I was about the people that would come in and volunteer their time and spend time with me. You're coming into my house, and you wanna hang out with me, you have something to teach me. And then I just surrounded myself and my support network got bigger and bigger. I talked about it on Facebook because I got parole four years ago this week.
and the amount of support I have is not even just in this province, it's worldwide now. It's floated, see it right? So look at what you have got, yeah it's mine's worldwide, you know and then
Lisa (46:43.6)
Mm.
Chuck LaFLange (46:44.585)
Yeah, it is. 100% it is, right? Yeah, yeah.
Lisa (46:47.14)
Mm-hmm.
Lisa (46:54.608)
Do you think that having had like some sober time, when I realized that there's a lot of drugs in jail, but you were in jail at the time, if you were sober being in jail, do you feel like having gone through those life experiences with your daughter, with your mom, while in a sober, clear minded state, do you think that made those things impact you?
Chantel Huel (47:09.186)
I would.
Lisa (47:23.756)
more profoundly or differently?
Chantel Huel (47:25.954)
So I was sober and real crazy about my story is I spent more time in than I was supposed to because I still had charges in Saskatchewan. So I was a federal inmate in a provincial correctional centre more than I was actually a federal inmate in a federal institution. So my programming had to stop and I had to restart it and...
I would get upset at first, but then I truly believe that it was so that I could gain more time being sober in a safe space.
Not saying healing is the best place to happen in an institution or in a penitentiary, but when you surround yourself with people that come in. So I gained more sobriety, I gained more healing along my journey, and it was just crazy how that panned out for me, because I should have been out a year before I actually got out. But because of all of this stuff happening,
It didn't happen. So now I see it as a gift from the creator that I got to strengthen my sobriety in there to make better choices. Then I transitioned to ETAs and UTAs from there, like going out into the community and doing stuff. And then I went up for parole, and then the next day it was world lockdown, so I couldn't get out. And I was like, yes. And they're like, you're crazy. I was like, no, I'm not.
They keep me as long as you can because the longer I stayed, the stronger I got.
Lisa (49:04.176)
Hmm.
Lisa (49:08.484)
Interesting.
Chuck LaFLange (49:08.587)
Wow.
Lisa (49:11.412)
Yeah, makes my mind go to mandated treatment.
Chantel Huel (49:12.534)
And I mean actually, how many times? Like 28 days in treatment, sure, it's not enough. It's not enough. It's not at all. But the longer I stayed and the stronger I got after countless, I don't even know how many times I've been in and out and in and out and in and out. You get sick and tired of being sick and tired. And those two huge moments in my life, I needed to find a better way.
Chuck LaFLange (49:12.837)
you say that Chantal?
Lisa (49:19.98)
No. God no.
Chuck LaFLange (49:20.713)
No.
Lisa (49:42.746)
Yeah.
And would you share like today, like what are the things that you're doing today that help you maintain your sobriety? Like what works for you?
Chantel Huel (49:56.078)
So I work for an organization where community education is huge and we have a recovery model and a healing model. It's called Straight Up 10,000 Little Steps to Healing if you check out the website. So presenting in community and providing awareness and sharing bits and pieces of my story through a framework.
that's healing. But I'm also in trauma therapy, I also have mentors, I am in a leadership Saskatoon program, it's a ten month program. I'm constantly on a journey of personal development so because I believe truly you can only bring a person along in their journey as far as you've been in your own journey.
So I'm constantly developing and working on myself, which I really wanna connect with Mike because there's some stuff that I feel would be valuable by being in treatment, not going to Thailand. Ha ha ha.
Chantel Huel (51:09.91)
That's another trauma thing for me, but like, engaging some of the therapies, maybe one day, engaging in some of the therapies that he has to offer. Because you get to a point with your therapist where when you know that you're just going and you're just venting or dumping and you're not doing personal work, that you have to find a different therapist because you want to dig deeper, right?
Chuck LaFLange (51:13.225)
But maybe. But maybe. But maybe.
Lisa (51:17.072)
Ah!
Lisa (51:34.746)
Mm-hmm.
Chuck LaFLange (51:35.197)
Yeah. Well, and I think Lisa could definitely speak to her thoughts on Mike that way, right? I mean, as far as his value is, yeah, right. Did you ever get a chance, Chantelle, to watch the series on trauma therapy with Mike?
Lisa (51:43.532)
Oh yeah, oh I love Mike.
Chantel Huel (51:50.058)
I watched some of it and then I got really upset and then I messaged you and I was like I got more work to do. I got more work to do because I got really pissed off at one at one of the episodes and yeah and then I just logged off. You had me in the background watching. Do you remember that?
Chuck LaFLange (51:56.297)
Hahaha
Lisa (51:57.308)
No! Ha ha ha!
Lisa (52:02.976)
Oh.
Chuck LaFLange (52:08.07)
Oh, okay. I don't. I don't. Oh.
Lisa (52:10.46)
I remember that you were watching, because I think you commented, because I remember Chris, you sang something, or Chantel's watching, or, yeah.
Chuck LaFLange (52:14.613)
Oh, yeah, okay, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Chantel Huel (52:17.086)
Yeah, there was two that I watched, I can't remember, and I just got pissed off. And then I was like, I got more work to do.
Chuck LaFLange (52:23.641)
Okay, so you weren't pissed off at the content.
Lisa (52:24.096)
Is that why you were pissed off or was it something we said? Oh.
Chantel Huel (52:27.01)
Yeah!
No, something upset me and then I was like if you're upset about this then you need to look within yourself Because the answers for everything what I've come to learn I mean and I learned this with an amazing trauma therapist in the institution at Edmonton Institute for Women He I did group therapy in there too And so he brought in these papers on a Saturday morning and he's like all right you write down what's going on What's the biggest like issue in the institution in your paw?
Lisa (52:34.015)
Oh.
Chantel Huel (52:58.332)
right now and there were steps to it and then what is the solution so he would go over and he went around the circle and all of these women are like fuck this person and fuck that person and the solution was that they better fucking shut the fuck up or they better do this they better do that and he got to me and I was just laughing and all I did was like problem I drew an arrow all the way to the solution and I put me
And he's like, can you explain this? And I said, it doesn't matter what A, B, C, or D, or F are doing. It's how I respond to it. And what am I going to do about it? I can let them, but, but at the end of the day, everything comes back to me. And a lot of people don't understand the importance of self-reflection moving forward in their healing journey. What parts of it play in it? Right?
Lisa (53:53.741)
Yeah.
Chuck LaFLange (53:55.943)
Yeah.
Lisa (53:56.272)
I mean, realistically, if you can't look at yourself honestly, you're only going to get so far with therapy and it's not far, sadly, you know? Like to me, the two biggest blocks to therapy, one is a person who's really well defended, right? So if there's a lot of defenses, you know, if you're doing a lot of things like projecting or minimizing or justifying or whatever.
Chantel Huel (54:04.554)
more much for.
Chuck LaFLange (54:06.035)
No.
Lisa (54:23.396)
then it's really hard to actually do work. Cause you can think of every one of those defenses as like a wall this person has up in front of them. And then as a, you know, you're trying to penetrate through all of this, it's really, really difficult. And the other is when somebody doesn't have insight or somebody's not willing to be honest about their stuff, you know, and like, we've all got stuff. Like whether you've lived a life of active addiction, whether you've been in jail, committed crimes, been a victim, it doesn't matter. Like,
We all have so much stuff that we can work on. And it really just kind of comes down to, do you know? Like, can you see it? And you don't have to have all the answers, obviously, but you have to be willing to like look at your stuff.
Chuck LaFLange (55:07.621)
To be coachable, if you will, for lack of a better term, right? You know, yeah, yeah. They have to be teachable. Wow, hey, wow.
Lisa (55:12.033)
Yeah.
Lisa (55:16.752)
And again, it's ego, right? What makes you not be able to see your stuff? It's ego, ego.
Chantel Huel (55:18.634)
Oh for sure!
Chuck LaFLange (55:19.969)
Oh, fuck. Yeah. Ego is... Ah, fucking ego, right? It's in everything. It's just... What did Ryan say? Shame is like a wet blanket. Ego is a wet blanket. This shit's on everything, right? Like, it's just... In the content creator world, I see it, and there's... I have seen, oh my lord, some of the things that I've experienced.
Lisa (55:33.344)
Yeah.
Chantel Huel (55:42.851)
Oh!
Chuck LaFLange (55:48.185)
It's disgusting really for lack of a better term that way right and it's not even that it's disgusting. It's it Doesn't that's not a right turn such a term. It's off-putting and it's just it's like really like is You know really is that where you're at right and you're out there trying to be what okay? That's fine. That's fine
Lisa (55:51.117)
Yeah.
Lisa (55:59.192)
Yeah.
Chantel Huel (56:05.838)
I remember messaging you about that one time. I was struggling with content creators and I was like, what is happening here?
Chuck LaFLange (56:13.152)
Hehehehe
Lisa (56:14.05)
Yeah.
Chuck LaFLange (56:17.275)
Right? It is, it is.
Lisa (56:17.804)
I remember at a treatment center that I know somebody who went to and they used to use the term get off your ego or you're on your ego, you know? And they, it was a program more geared towards young adults, but they had a lot of crazy rules like, you know, there was, I think, no baseball caps, no jewelry, because you'd have these like young guys in there from like...
Chuck LaFLange (56:31.402)
Yeah.
Lisa (56:45.136)
Canada who looked like they thought they lived in the Bronx, you know, and you're like dude like what are you doing? Like just take all this shit off. It was even things like you weren't allowed to sit in meetings like this You know
Chantel Huel (56:56.514)
But if you think about that and you compare it to the institutions of like CSC and corrections, one of the most humbling things, not federal, provincial, because federal you can have your own stuff, is you're all walking around in the same suits and you got nothing. And that humbles your ass really fast. And you drop your ego really fast.
Lisa (57:03.034)
Yeah.
Lisa (57:10.987)
Okay.
Chuck LaFLange (57:20.221)
Yeah, it does. Yeah. Comes down to all of a sudden how much ramen you have is your status, right? Instead of your $150 jeans, right? Ha ha ha.
Lisa (57:23.852)
Yeah.
Chantel Huel (57:23.998)
if you can look for like those lessons.
Chantel Huel (57:32.182)
But don't forget, before you get those... Every time you get those clothes, you gotta show them your asshole first, so... Ha ha ha!
Lisa (57:32.672)
I laugh every time I see ramen now.
Chuck LaFLange (57:40.551)
And there's that, there is that, right? Yeah. So, so yeah. Should I tell last?
Chantel Huel (57:41.858)
There's not.
Lisa (57:43.18)
That's humbling.
Chantel Huel (57:45.194)
No, it's actually dehumanizing. It's dehumanizing. It's going on terrible. Yeah, it's traumatizing.
Lisa (57:48.298)
Yeah, that's fair.
Chuck LaFLange (57:49.078)
It is. Yeah. I mean...
Lisa (57:52.208)
How would you, Chantel, because, you know, we were talking about this a little bit before we started to record. And I mean, I'm guessing that they justify doing it, that they're trying to stop people bringing shit in.
Chantel Huel (58:07.002)
Yeah. But it still comes in. I mean, it still comes in.
Chuck LaFLange (58:09.341)
Yeah, yeah, that's... Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Lisa (58:09.976)
Well, there's that too. Yeah. And like, how would you do it differently? Like, how do we keep drugs out of the system and not dehumanize people?
Chantel Huel (58:14.082)
But what is the?
Chantel Huel (58:21.574)
It's half the time it doesn't even come in through somebody's butthole. It's coming in through the guards, it's coming in through tosses, it's coming in through the guards, it's coming in through the guards. Like, I remember coming off of a transport and the institution Pine Grove was on lockdown.
Lisa (58:25.582)
Yeah.
Chuck LaFLange (58:32.957)
haha
Lisa (58:34.832)
Crazy.
Chantel Huel (58:42.582)
because they were doing searches with the dogs. And I think on that transport there was 12 women coming from Regina to Pine Grove, from White Birch to Pine Grove. And so we had to stop immediately and the corridor is locked down. Everything is locked off. Two sheriffs, 13 women, the dog handler. And you want to know where the dog sat? At one of the drivers that transported us from Regina.
to the institution, oh no this can't be right, this can't be right, and I was like, holy fuck, of course it's right, of course it's right.
Lisa (59:18.02)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, it's interesting, because it also to me reminds me about things that you're taught like in medical school. Like for example, like if you're gonna do an exam on a person, you leave the room and let them change. When you come into them and examine them.
Chuck LaFLange (59:18.782)
Ha ha
Chantel Huel (59:34.263)
Yes.
Lisa (59:37.748)
you talk through what you're going to do and you allow them to do the parts that they want to do. Like you don't go in and like rip a woman's gown up and expose her, right? You ask her, can I get you to lift your gown? Like we're taught to treat people like humans and yet isn't it interesting how in the judicial system what you're describing that they're still doing is so the opposite. Does that mean that people who've committed crimes don't deserve to be treated like humans? Is that the underlying belief?
Chantel Huel (59:58.602)
I mean, like...
Chantel Huel (01:00:06.366)
It's so crazy if you think about it now like the way you explain it in a medical and then if I think about so Federal systems more humanizing than provincial. I'll say that because When you go provincial, I don't know how it is for guys Well, I mean I do because my partner's been through all of it. I mean we make sick jokes now of everything but provincial you get everything but naked in front of
one guard and it's like flip your hair open your mouth stick out your tongue behind your ears lift your feet spread your cheeks bend over and it's like okay
Imagine doing that after sitting in RCMP cells in Regina for 15 days and getting your time as a woman and not changing your clothes or having a shower for 15 days and you have to be okay doing that knowing you fucking stink, knowing you're bleeding, knowing that they're going to make sick comments about you.
but you have to do it or you get charged. So if you don't do this, you get in trouble again, institutionally charged. Federal's different when you go in. They say what part do you want to take off first, your top half or your bottom half?
So at least when you go in federal, when they're searching the top part of your body, you have your pants on. When they're searching the bottom part of your body, you have your clothes on. But it's still... by the end of it, I mean I was running through the doors from UTAs and I was like, They're like, stop! Like, stop!
Chantel Huel (01:01:55.414)
Because you get so accustomed that if you want to go into community, you know you're coming home and you're getting searched. So I make jokes of it all the time now, oh you seen my asshole, how do I look with clothes on? Like...
Chuck LaFLange (01:02:05.055)
Yeah.
Chantel Huel (01:02:13.334)
because it breaks the ice because you know what it's probably just as traumatizing for them if you think about it. They don't want to do it but it's a part of their job. So some of them come in with the ego and us versus them mentality and some of them come in and they're really trauma informed. So by the end of it I was handpicking who was searching me because then I was okay with
Lisa (01:02:23.93)
Mm.
Lisa (01:02:34.032)
Mm hmm.
Lisa (01:02:39.12)
Mm-hmm. But it's interesting because I think too, if you treat people like animals, and then you turn around and want them to behave not like animals, like it's just, it makes no sense, you know, and there was a, there was a patient that as a resident, I kind of joked about this, she, this is a girl who had like a low IQ.
Chuck LaFLange (01:02:40.48)
well.
Chantel Huel (01:02:49.27)
Thanks. Yeah.
Lisa (01:03:01.88)
She could not live independently. She couldn't even live in facilities because she was so behavioral that in facilities with multiple staff and multiple other patients, it always led to problems. So she ended up hospitalized, I think for close to two years. And they would actually send her from hospital to hospital in Calgary every so many months because she generated some burnout among staff. And as a resident, it was interesting,
we also have to go hospital to hospital and do rotations. And literally for the span of a year, her and I moved together. Like it was a big joke amongst all of the residents in the program because I would like move sites to start a new rotation and a week later she would arrive. And I was like, oh, like, we're just gonna bounce around together. But what was so interesting to me was that there were sites and I never actually was involved in her care. Like the staff I worked with were not her primary
Chantel Huel (01:03:39.649)
I'm sorry.
Lisa (01:04:01.54)
There were sites where I literally saw staff speak to her through the door. Like they wouldn't open the door. They would stand outside the door and like, it's like a caged animal and they would speak to her outside the door. I would go to another site where her medications were not changed. Nothing was different except the staff. And then there was a staff, I remember at one of the sites who their daily assessments.
He would take her outside with no security and they would walk laps around the hospital.
Chuck LaFLange (01:04:39.807)
Yeah.
Chantel Huel (01:04:40.119)
Because she's a human. Yes.
Lisa (01:04:40.228)
But it's just like, and she behaved better at those sites. So it's like, if you're gonna treat her like a dog, don't be surprised if she acts like one. If you're gonna take her and treat her like a human and show her some respect and give her some dignity, well, lo and behold, you know, cause the one that spoke to her through the glass had security standing next to him every time he was speaking to her. And then the one who would walk laps with her outside didn't even have security around.
She didn't run away, she didn't do anything. So it's just, you know, again, like, I know nothing about the, you know, the prison system, but to me it just clearly sounds like there's a lot.
Chantel Huel (01:05:19.054)
Was she a prisoner? Was she serving time? Okay.
Lisa (01:05:24.204)
No, no, no. She was a certified mental health patient, so she wasn't free to leave hospital. But no, there was no, she, it was all about self-injury. Like she would do things to herself. Like even things like this is a girl who would like crack metal forks and swallow them and cause herself to end up with like perforations in her abdomen and stuff like that, but not hurting other people as much.
Chantel Huel (01:05:34.444)
Yeah.
Lisa (01:05:51.652)
But it just makes me feel like there's obviously a lot of work that needs to be done in the judicial system. Because there are ways to do what needs to be done and still treat people as humans, you know?
Chuck LaFLange (01:05:57.329)
Oh, oh yeah, yeah.
Chantel Huel (01:06:00.834)
my dream.
my dream to get in there and be a lived experience voice in corrections, not in provincial, in federal. I always say have you ever been in an iron cage? No. Why are you making choices about my life without me? Why? You have no idea what's behind the behaviour, you have no idea what's behind any of it. You read what you read in those reports and you just
Chuck LaFLange (01:06:04.07)
Exactly.
Lisa (01:06:07.882)
Yeah.
Lisa (01:06:24.097)
Yeah.
Chantel Huel (01:06:33.7)
individuals on like face-to-face level
Lisa (01:06:39.756)
No, totally. And why is your interest in the federal? Because you said the federal is actually better.
Chantel Huel (01:06:46.974)
in the federal because that's where my journey of healing started. So many women in there, and women only, because I believe healthy women help other women heal and find their voices. But because that's where it started for me and that's where I found my voice and that's where I faced...
Lisa (01:06:53.2)
Gotcha.
Chantel Huel (01:07:15.334)
so many traumas head on in there and I know it's possible. I email my deputy warden once a month. We talk. I'm supposed to go hang out. She's going to shadow me instead of me shadowing her. So there are people who are open.
Lisa (01:07:29.104)
Wow.
Chantel Huel (01:07:32.694)
But to change those systems from national headquarters down, it might not even happen in my lifetime. But if I can plant seeds to one person, only one, my work is like, I'm, you know? But yeah, yeah.
Lisa (01:07:46.66)
Yeah. Yep.
Chuck LaFLange (01:07:48.345)
Yeah, no kidding, no kidding. Wow. Ladies, we are over the hour mark. We could sit here and talk for a long time, but you know, we've gotten there. And as you know, Lisa, this is just the beginning of a very long stretch for me when it comes to the weekend raffle. Now, I'm not going to say it's midnight, and I'm not going to sleep until this is out and done. So, right, yeah, I've still got to get this edited. So, yeah. Sorry.
Lisa (01:08:06.393)
Yep.
Lisa (01:08:13.516)
Yeah. Right?
Chantel Huel (01:08:13.558)
Right?
Chuck LaFLange (01:08:17.306)
Bye.
Chuck LaFLange (01:08:21.997)
Chetel, I want to thank you for coming on again. I've asked you, I don't even know how many times, schedules being what they are. You are always welcome to come on the show, always. Be it on a weekend ramble or otherwise, right? Yeah, yeah, so, right? Fuck, fuck. Yeah. I'm gonna have to get you on a games night, maybe not, maybe not, but on Black Ash Radio. I don't know if you'd really appreciate that one so much, but what I was thinking, Lisa, is we're gonna have to get you on as a game show host.
Chantel Huel (01:08:35.118)
Thanks for having me. Right?
Lisa (01:08:51.624)
Oh, gosh, some of those questions yesterday, like I watched a bit and I was just thinking to myself, like, so Chuck likes to say that I'm a muggle, right? Because I've I yeah, right? Like, haven't lived the life kind of approved or have been
Chuck LaFLange (01:08:52.655)
I think that would be...
Chuck LaFLange (01:09:02.069)
the mugglest of the muggles. Do you know what she said to me last couple of weeks ago? You're gonna love this. I've never eaten ramen before. I was like, what? This is the most privileged thing I've ever heard. Turns out it was just... She... Yeah, same thing.
Chantel Huel (01:09:04.654)
I'm going to go to bed.
Chantel Huel (01:09:16.386)
So many people haven't.
Lisa (01:09:19.824)
It turns out I have. I just didn't realize Ichiban was ramen.
Chantel Huel (01:09:21.555)
Okay.
Yeah, well my face is ramen, so I don't even know how I got a ramen face. With egg eyeballs. Wait, can I have a new face?
Chuck LaFLange (01:09:29.637)
I don't remember how, but it happens.
Lisa (01:09:31.988)
What's up?
Lisa (01:09:38.913)
All right, yeah.
Chuck LaFLange (01:09:41.057)
just happened one day.
Lisa (01:09:44.28)
know this relationship between you two well enough to understand it but Chris seems to love creating these memes with you online.
Chantel Huel (01:09:48.344)
I don't even understand it!
Chuck LaFLange (01:09:51.955)
I'm sorry.
Chantel Huel (01:09:53.826)
There hasn't been one for a while.
Chuck LaFLange (01:09:56.037)
I know, I know, I know, I've got other things happening and I've been working more than ever, right?
Lisa (01:09:56.161)
Yeah.
Chantel Huel (01:10:02.006)
Yeah, I think we had a lot of extra time on our hands at Christmas and it got a little crazy. But now... We got stabilization.
Lisa (01:10:12.632)
Maybe that's what happened.
Chuck LaFLange (01:10:16.061)
You know what? You know what it is. It's just, it's, it's un-fucking-treated ADHD. It's like, focus on this for a while, and then I focus on that for a while, and then on to the next thing, right? So, yeah. Right? Yeah. Without a doubt. Yeah. I like to hyper-focus, and for a while it was putting your face on dumb shit. So, right? But rest assured, it'll happen again. I'm sure. Right? So, yeah. Yeah.
Lisa (01:10:26.381)
Yeah.
Chantel Huel (01:10:36.386)
Perfect!
Lisa (01:10:37.844)
Yeah. But yeah, so that game night last night, though, some of these questions, would you rather this or rather that? I was just like, what?
Chuck LaFLange (01:10:47.905)
Completely so far off like okay, right? Like yeah, yeah
Chantel Huel (01:10:51.87)
How many people said, oh, I've already done both?
Lisa (01:10:52.23)
UGH!
Lisa (01:10:55.578)
Yeah, I know!
Yeah, it was. Did you watch Chantelle? Were you watching that last night? Okay. Some of those questions were like, why?
Chantel Huel (01:10:59.958)
Yeah. No.
Chuck LaFLange (01:11:00.286)
Yeah, they're great.
No. Yeah.
Chantel Huel (01:11:06.03)
I think I was sleeping by 8 o'clock.
Lisa (01:11:08.716)
Okay, yeah. Yeah, good for you.
Chuck LaFLange (01:11:08.901)
Yeah, yeah, so Anyway That does bring us to my favorite part of the show and that is the daily gratitude. So Chantelle, let's start with you. What you got?
Lisa (01:11:14.116)
Feels good.
Chantel Huel (01:11:22.066)
Oh you forgot to remind me about this in the beginning. I'm grateful for my life. I'm grateful for another day. I am grateful to spend my Saturday morning with you guys, planting seeds, hopefully opening minds of others. And I'm just grateful that it's the weekend because Monday's gonna be another kick at the can.
Chuck LaFLange (01:11:48.737)
Lisa, what you got for us today?
Lisa (01:11:53.016)
I'm grateful that the sun is shining. I'm grateful that I had a nice long sleep last night. I'm grateful Chantel to meet you. I've seen all the memes, so it's nice to actually know the person or get to know the person. But for me to like listening to your podcast, and that was actually a weekend ramble, I was away somewhere and so I wasn't there.
Chantel Huel (01:12:06.23)
I'm sorry.
Chuck LaFLange (01:12:17.489)
Yeah, you were.
Lisa (01:12:19.864)
But I did find myself, like I listened to it this morning before we did this. And I just felt like everything that you were saying, I was just like, yes, yes. And so I, yeah, it's just nice to get to actually meet you. And I love the way you think, and I love the way that you see the world, and I love the way that you see people, and I appreciate your insightfulness, and you're just your willingness. And so...
I loved listening to the other podcast you did. And I was, yeah, it was just so nice to get to actually meet you. Yeah.
Chantel Huel (01:12:56.782)
Thank you.
Chuck LaFLange (01:12:58.169)
That's nice. Myself, I'm grateful for great company on a Saturday night for me, now Sunday morning, of course. I'm always, at least I speak a lot about you and the way you donate your time to the show and I just, I couldn't appreciate that more. And of course Chantel, our relationship being what it is, I mean, there's a lot I love about you.
Chuck LaFLange (01:13:22.121)
There really is. I'm also grateful for air conditioning, because it's so fucking hot here now. It's right now 29 degrees at 1230 in the morning. Yeah, isn't that crazy? And it's just during the day, 35 degrees is normal right now. It's like summer just started. So it's hot. It's really hot here. What?
Chantel Huel (01:13:32.682)
Yeah.
Lisa (01:13:32.9)
Wow.
Chantel Huel (01:13:43.138)
When does winter happen? When does winter happen there?
Chuck LaFLange (01:13:48.637)
It's not a thing, right? It's not a thing. No, it's really not a thing. So I guess I got here in the spring, late fall, or no. I would have got here late winter, early spring, I guess, right? Which I didn't realize, but yeah. So it's all messed up. There's dry, wet, and some other season, they call it. They don't really have the four seasons here per se, but it's just hot, right? I am.
Chantel Huel (01:13:52.811)
not coming.
Lisa (01:14:12.31)
Yeah.
just hot and hotter and hottest and.
Chuck LaFLange (01:14:16.497)
Yeah, fuck it's so hot, right? It's so hot. I'm also thankful for Sonny. He just, uh, this dog. He's here at my feet again now. He makes me so happy all the time, right? So, yeah, he just does, right? Like, even when he's just an asshole, right? I was thinking about him.
Chantel Huel (01:14:16.907)
I couldn't do it.
Lisa (01:14:19.472)
Hahaha
Lisa (01:14:29.385)
Aww.
Chantel Huel (01:14:35.97)
We feel the same way about you, even when you're just an asshole.
Chuck LaFLange (01:14:43.073)
Yesterday, yesterday he, I go to like there's always like.
I'd probably see a gecko if I look around long enough right now. Like, they're on the walls or everywhere here, right? It's just normal. And we love them because they eat bugs and they're good luck, right? So, yeah, but there's constantly, and they're just tiny, like, like two inches long, sometimes longer, but like most of the time. The ones in the house are really small. And I go downstairs and I'm like, ah, there's one missing a tail on its floor. And Sunny's just looking at it, just gunning it off, right? I'm like, oh man, did you do that? But it's like, it's a gecko. Their tails grow back, right? That's part of it.
Lisa (01:15:11.459)
Ohhhh...
Lisa (01:15:15.67)
Shit.
Chuck LaFLange (01:15:17.523)
snaps right off. So it's like okay it's no big deal. So I go to kind of like I give it like a stomp next to it to get it to run and it's trying but its back legs are
Lisa (01:15:29.012)
Aww.
Chuck LaFLange (01:15:29.957)
What am I gonna do with this thing? I'm looking at Sonny, I'm like, you're such a dick. Like you just put me in this position, man. Alright.
Lisa (01:15:34.612)
surprised that so sunny is doing this like how's he catching them like geckos are fast like
Chuck LaFLange (01:15:39.813)
Sonny is like really fast, okay? Just ask him. He is the fastest, right? I know he probably just lucked out. But so I had to put the thing out of its misery and I was just so mad at him because I cracked like I cracked a tear and I was like, I don't wanna do this, right? It's like a bug, it's a gecko, he's got like a personality, right? Whatever. So I had to put him out of his misery. I was really pissed off at Sonny, but then I was with Sonny, I can't stay mad at him for too long, so.
Lisa (01:15:42.468)
He's like a ninja dog.
Lisa (01:15:47.44)
Hahaha
Lisa (01:15:55.376)
No.
Lisa (01:16:02.466)
Aww.
Chuck LaFLange (01:16:09.201)
And I'm thankful for living in a place where healthy food is cheaper than processed food. And it's just great. I've been on a health kick lately and not eating anything bad. Anything. I've walked past all of the bad things. I've had nothing deep fried. I've had like it's been so hard to do. I'm in 7-Eleven. I'm like, I'll just get some sweet potatoes. Right? So you can buy it.
Lisa (01:16:20.816)
amazing.
Chantel Huel (01:16:21.987)
Good job.
Lisa (01:16:31.152)
Should I not send all the chocolate and peanut butter that's waiting for?
Chuck LaFLange (01:16:35.333)
I told you only send one or two because I don't like I'll binge it right. I would not appreciate 10 more than one because I need it all at the same time anyway. So just you know. Yeah. Another gem from the from the rooms. Right. So anyway.
Lisa (01:16:40.08)
There's more than one or two.
Chantel Huel (01:16:46.114)
One is too many, a thousand is never enough. Ha ha ha!
Lisa (01:16:50.201)
Bye!
bringing it back.
Chuck LaFLange (01:16:57.989)
I'm also thankful to every single person who continues to watch, listen, comment, share, do all the things you guys. We're growing and growing and growing. It's going really well. So anytime you do any one of these things, you're getting me a little bit closer to living my best life. My best life is to make a humble living spreading the message. The message is this. If you're an active addiction right now, today could be that day. Today could be the day that you start a lifelong journey.
Reach out to a friend, reach out to a family member, call them to detox, go to a meeting, pray, go to church. I don't care. Do whatever it is you gotta do to get that journey started because it is so much better than the alternative. And if you have a loved one who's suffering an addiction right now, you're just taking the time to listen to this conversation. If you just take one more minute out of your day and text that person, let them know they're loved. Use the words.
Lisa (01:17:40.173)
You are love.
Chantel Huel (01:17:41.233)
or love.
Chuck LaFLange (01:17:42.709)
That little glimmer of hope just might be the thing that brings them back. Boop. There we go. Good job.
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