240 - CHANTEL HUEL

Chuck LaFLange (00:01.132)
Hello everybody, watchers, listeners, support of all kinds. Welcome to another episode of the Ash is Too Awesome podcast. I'm your host Chuck LaFlandre checking in from Krabi, Thailand. Halfway around the world in Saskatoon, Canada is my lovely guest, Chantelle Huell. How you doing today, Chantelle?

Chantel (00:16.144)
I'm great.

Chuck LaFLange (00:18.1)
What was that?

Chantel (00:26.288)
You left me sitting here all alone in the studio for ten minutes. I've gone other places. No, I've got a lot on my mind.

Chuck LaFLange (00:30.796)
Ha ha!

I had to run and get myself some sweet potatoes. That's why I was a little bit late getting in. I had to go get sweet potatoes for supper. So yeah, right. They're so good. I'll tell you what I've been doing. I buy them pre -steamed, and then I'll cut one down the middle like hot dog bun, and put some either mayo or sandwich spread in the middle, and that's my supper. And it's just wonderful. Right? They're so good. Mayo, mayo, not miracle whip. We've had that conversation at rant length, right?

Chantel (00:40.816)
Free potatoes.

Okay.

Chantel (00:54.608)
Mayo or Miracle Whip? I know.

Chuck LaFLange (01:02.221)
You mean my dad there? Like my technically stepdad, but my dad is a he's a Miracle Whip guy. Did you see that in the comments with mom? I know, right? Right. So all of a sudden we went from Chris's drug habit being the dirty family secret to to dad's, you know, Miracle Whip, you know, fondness, right? So, you know.

Chantel (01:08.464)
I did, I seen when your mom posted.

Chantel (01:17.424)
Okay, but in your dad's defense, devil's advocate here, I was Miracle Whip and...

Chuck LaFLange (01:22.188)
Okay, we're talking. But then you found a good 12 step program and you got over that. Okay, yeah.

Chantel (01:28.496)
But then I went to prison. So when I got to the pen and then you order your own groceries, they don't have Miracle Whip. So they have mail. And yeah, then I never went back because I couldn't even fathom the thought.

Chuck LaFLange (01:39.244)
So you were converted, yeah? Yeah.

What is that? What is that tangy shit? Like, no, males not tangy males, male, right? Like, no, right? I don't know. No. Anyway, anyway, we don't really have an agenda going in to this one. It's kind of an impromptu episode, which I do love Chantel. There is something I want to speak to.

Chantel (01:48.802)
I don't know what it is. Read the ingredients man.

Chuck LaFLange (02:07.66)
briefly. That is Devin McGuire, who was the owner of Revolution Recovery. He sponsored this show in its very early beginnings. He was one of our monthly sponsors. The man is, like I said in a post, he's an institution unto himself when it comes to the recovery community, right? He's very well known in the Vancouver area. Three recovery houses, never paid himself a salary, ever.

As a matter of fact, it went into his personal pocket many times to keep those places open. You know, so, and we lost him the other day. Circumstances are still a mystery. They might always be a mystery. It's really nobody's but his family's business as to what happened. But I just want to take a moment and just acknowledge Devin for the awesome that he was, right? So, you know, yeah. Yeah. That's a big loss. That's a big loss. So I myself these last few days have been...

focusing on just it's a weird thing grief is right. You feel and I'm sure you can relate to this because I know you've experienced the loss just recently in your community as well, right? It comes in waves. You know, like I can function and I can do my job and you know, I sit here for hours and you know, I went to class and then out of nowhere, here it comes, right? Just this and it's just awful, right? But then,

Chantel (03:17.2)
Yeah, huge.

Chantel (03:34.544)
It's not, it's healthy and it's okay.

Chuck LaFLange (03:36.748)
And you're right, you're right. But then somebody says, I'm sorry for your loss. It's like, it's not my loss, it's his family. It's just because then you feel guilty for feeling the way you do because there's so, you know, and you shouldn't, but you do, right? You know?

Chantel (03:46.928)
I think, I think one of the worst things, like, I took so many grief and loss classes when I was in prison. And the one thing I never want to hear is, I'm so sorry. And then I, and then I remember that when other people have passed away. And it's like, it leaves you speechless sometimes.

Chuck LaFLange (04:15.532)
It does. It does. Right.

Chantel (04:17.424)
Because you don't have the words, but you just want to remember them in a good way. Just like Trevor, who we talked about it last night, obviously. Huge loss to our community. And it's a ripple effect. And that ripple effect, I can't, it's just, I mean, you're in Thailand. Look at the ripple effect of from Vancouver to Thailand, right?

Chuck LaFLange (04:31.82)
Yeah, it is.

Chuck LaFLange (04:42.924)
No kidding, no kidding. Well, and to cement that in, Devin and Mike Miller, owner of the Otter Center, who would be our title sponsor for this episode as well, actually go back to their early days in recovery. One of them was the, no, that was just coincidence, believe it or not. So I don't know if he's gonna be there long enough to attend the service or not, but he was, yeah, he had to run back to renew his passport.

Chantel (04:58.352)
Is that why it makes in Vancouver right now?

Chantel (05:07.312)
Okay.

Chuck LaFLange (05:12.428)
he's a that was a crazy coincidence as a matter of fact he didn't know until he got off the plane and landed turned on his Wi -Fi and all of a sudden boom it became yeah right so and yeah one of them was the admissions worker for the other one when they got into treatment like that's how far back they go right I can't remember which role was which but in Surrey Surrey BC yeah yes yeah

Chantel (05:30.32)
wow. Where were his recovery roses?

Chantel (05:37.008)
In Surrey? Okay, that's where my kids are living.

Chuck LaFLange (05:40.524)
I know, well, I remember once when you and I were talking, I said, I do have resources in that part of the world. And that's who I was referring to, right? Because Devon's the guy, right? He's the one that's, he helped Lisa's brother in his journey. He's helped him a lot. He's, there's so many, right? Ryan Bathgate as well. I mean, they're best friends. He's my other co -host. the guy is just, it's a big loss. So, you know, there'll be more on that in the weeks to come, I'm sure. Ryan's going to be surfacing again back on our show. So we'll, you know.

Chantel (05:45.2)
Yeah. Yeah.

Chantel (06:10.)
Nice.

Chuck LaFLange (06:11.148)
But yeah, I just I felt it was important to to acknowledge the awesomeness that Devon was right. And and it's no stretch to say without him, I don't know that the show would be where it is today. I can certainly say it wouldn't be what it is today because it's him that I met through him that I met Lisa. We had done an episode and he sent it to Lisa and said, hey, you. Through Devon, yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, right. So Lisa is.

Chantel (06:29.776)
Yeah. That's how you met Lisa, was through Devin? wow.

Chuck LaFLange (06:39.372)
grief stricken right now. She's on holiday in Cape Town with her family in South Africa. Amazing, right? Did you catch the giraffe? Did you see the giraffe? Right? There's a giraffe named Chris somewhere on the safari in South Africa right now. Right? How fucking awesome is that? Right? I love that kid. Anyway, so you've got a new project going on.

Chantel (06:43.184)
I know I'm following her photos.

Chantel (06:51.184)
Yeah.

Chantel (07:03.696)
I have a final project going on.

Chuck LaFLange (07:07.66)
Okay, final project four, Enlighten Us.

Chantel (07:09.996)
So a year ago, I was given an invite by a coworker to a graduation. Do you want to go to this leadership Saskatoon graduation? And I looked at the invite and I was like, fuck that. No. I don't go in public. I don't go in public. But I want to check out the program.

Chuck LaFLange (07:24.972)
My default answer. We know this by now.

Chantel (07:34.)
So I scrolled down to find out more information about this leadership Saskatoon program. It's a 10 month leadership course, community -based leadership course. And I read the requirements and I was like, yeah, fuck, I'll give it a try. I'm gonna challenge myself. Because you needed references from the community, you needed to write your bio, and then I didn't have money for funding. So you kind of had to write.

you had to answer leadership questions and what does it mean to you? And and then you had to write a bio if you Wanted to apply for the scholarship for funding. I thought I'd fuck whatever I'll do it. So I got a police officer from sps erica weber

to write me a reference letter. I got Stan from Straight Up to write me a reference letter. And I got Deb Ham from the food bank to write me a reference letter. And then I wrote my bio. And then I had to answer the questions. And I thought, fuck, man, I don't belong here. I don't belong in these spaces. I don't belong in this room. So you know me and my twisted humor.

Chuck LaFLange (08:30.636)
Wow.

Chuck LaFLange (08:48.104)
You have my attention. I know this is going to be good.

Chantel (08:53.104)
filling out the application questions and it's asking for your job history and your employment and I was like man I'm either gonna go completely honest and raw and be twisted or I'm gonna not be myself and I'm just gonna bullshit them.

So I chose obviously the first, so I'm filling it out. It was like previous employer, so I was like straight up 10 ,000 little steps to healing. And then I was like prison cleaner. Then before that I was like drug dealer. And I saved it. I saved the application. It's in my computer and I'll save it for life. And then behind it I was like, if you don't get this humor, then I don't deserve to be in your program.

Chuck LaFLange (09:15.916)
obviously.

Chantel (09:41.488)
Because if you don't understand who I am authentically as a person then I don't want to be in those spaces so then I'm going through it and I'm just being a fucking asshole, right? Because if you know me that's how I go about life I'm unapologetically me and no shame and probably have shame for how little shame I have So in this time

I submitted the applications and I submitted the reference letters, like the reference letters were submitted by the individuals directly to the program. And I submitted my bio for funding and I thought, yeah, whatever. I set a goal, I accomplished it, and we'll just wait and see what happens. And I remember the one question in the application that said, what's gonna hold you back?

And I sat here, I was at my desk and I himed and I hawed and then I started like bouncing it off of other people. I was like, listen, if I don't tell them the mental health issues that I suffer from and my diagnosis, I'm not gonna make it.

through these rooms, in these spaces with all of these facilitators and teachers because they can't be me. So I remember writing in the application, I suffer from PTSD, I suffer from social anxiety disorder, I suffer from imposter syndrome, I suffer from addictions, I suffer from so many things. But if I put a voice to it, then I'll be okay.

So I remember getting the, we've received your application, and I was like, okay, whatever. If I don't hear from them, I fucking smash out a goal, because I'm goal -orientated, right?

Chantel (11:40.112)
So if anybody remembers, at that point in my life, that's when my world started spiraling. That's when the kids got apprehended and they got placed into my care. And all of a sudden I'm an instant parent of two children who did a hostile takeover on my home and I've never raised my own kids, right?

Chuck LaFLange (11:59.948)
Fuck, your language kills me. I do remember that actually, Chantel, and I remember, well, fast forward, but I remember when you got the response to the application too, because you had made a post about it, and you were really proud, right? And that was at a point when I was actually trying really hard to get in touch with you at that point. Outside of my awareness, of course, you know, the insanity was going on in your life, and of course, I, you know.

Chantel (12:12.048)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (12:28.364)
without the benefit of the therapies that I've received since then, there was all sorts of, you know, even resentment taps. It's like, well, what the fuck? Why wouldn't you, you know? Knowing what I know now, you know. Well, that's, that's, you know, right? You know, that's the typical, you know, hey, for most women, it's who are you get out of my shower. So avoidance isn't so bad, right? But yeah. Anyway, continue, please. Yeah. Yeah.

Chantel (12:34.832)
And I was trying really hard to avoid you.

Chantel (12:42.992)
Let's be honest!

Chantel (12:48.688)
So all of this stuff started happening and I was overwhelmed and there was days where, man I would show up at work and I still had the same hair from four days ago. I mean that's nothing new but it was really bad.

It was visibly like, are you okay? And I had to navigate these challenges with my mental health and then the kids' mental health. And we had to grieve losses and we had to, I had to learn how to speak their language. So then I made a decision. If I get accepted to the program, I'm gonna decline it. And these are the reasons why. These kids come first and I have to provide a better way for them.

And do I have the time to work full time, raise two kids, take this program, breathe, make supper, make lunches, breathe. don't forget to breathe and then cry. And then that grief, right? Because we're grieving the loss of their father at the same time.

Chuck LaFLange (13:49.964)
shh shh shh shh shh shh shh shh

Chantel (13:59.344)
So everybody's like, are you sure? And I was like, yeah, I was like, I'm okay if I get accepted turning it down because this is what comes first. And then lo and behold, boom, we're giving the kids back to their mom. Boom, you've been accepted to the program. Boom, you have full funding. And I was like, all right, I got this. Right?

Chuck LaFLange (14:24.236)
That's not the universe telling you something, right? You know, right? Yeah, yeah.

Chantel (14:27.952)
So I entered this space of orientation and it was in a brewing company.

Chuck LaFLange (14:37.292)
of all things, right?

Chantel (14:39.024)
So I was like, what the fuck is this bullshit? Who has a orientation in a brewing company?

Chuck LaFLange (14:47.98)
Yeah, right.

Chantel (14:49.392)
So I walk in full of anxiety and just sit in the back corner, had a hoodie on. I think it was like, I think it was probably close to plus 30. And there I am. I need to feel safe in the back corner, right? So I sat in the back corner and then all of these people sat around me in that corner.

And I was like, okay, I'm going to be okay here. And then Michelle got up and spoke and she said, a lot of people don't understand what this program is about. And she said, trust the process. And those are words that I live by is trust the process. And I was like, okay, maybe I do belong here. And then she said, when I was growing up and she started to share just a little bit about her story.

And then she said the words imposter syndrome and I was like, I belong here. Because I felt that connection, right? And I immediately knew that out of all of those people, I had one safe person in the room.

Chuck LaFLange (15:46.06)
I'm home. These are my people.

Chuck LaFLange (15:57.324)
Yes.

Chantel (15:59.056)
So as you go through this program, you learn a lot of things that are equivalent to the CSC programming in corrections, like in the federal programming. And I was like...

Refresher, refresher, refresher. Anyways, the project turns out where you end up in a cohort of six people and you do, it takes a whole, it took a whole morning to pick our team because you go through this whole process and you have to trust the process and then all of a sudden at the end of it, you're with your team. And I was like.

Chuck LaFLange (16:29.196)
Okay.

Chantel (16:46.192)
I talked about my mental health in my application. I knew if I didn't speak authentically about it, I wouldn't be successful. And so there was two, I was on the fence between addictions and mental health. And I was like, they go hand in hand. I mean, you know that. They're the exact same thing. So I ended up on a team, mental health. And I find it interesting because the people on my team, when's a...

Chuck LaFLange (17:02.412)
are the same damn thing. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (17:10.124)
Awesome. Yeah.

Chantel (17:16.528)
One works for CSC. So used to be a correctional officer, now upper management. One's a police officer. Then he got to criminal. Then he got someone from the health authority and then FSIN and then from an intercultural organization and.

Chuck LaFLange (17:20.428)
Hmm?

Chuck LaFLange (17:25.964)
Ha ha ha ha.

Chantel (17:39.312)
I had to learn how to trust these people who I didn't know, who I had no idea who they were. And if we think back to 18 months ago when you were trying to get me on the show, I'm like, absolutely not. Because...

Chuck LaFLange (17:42.622)
No.

Chuck LaFLange (17:51.404)
Yeah, I was just thinking like that's that's a process to get to trust get you to trust is is a process, right? Yeah.

Chantel (17:55.76)
Yeah, get me to trust. So I allowed myself just to be me in those spaces. And I allowed myself to not have a filter.

Chuck LaFLange (18:10.7)
You allowed yourself so okay, so you got up in the morning. Okay. Yeah. Let's be honest. You allowed yourself to not have a filter. Fuck off.

Chantel (18:13.52)
Hahaha!

Chantel (18:26.236)
I also encouraged people to become uncomfortable because that's where the growth happens. So I allowed myself to be very, very vulnerable.

Chuck LaFLange (18:29.9)
Cough cough

You caught up in the morning. That's all you did. Okay, next. Yep. Okay.

Chuck LaFLange (18:46.316)
yes, yes.

Chantel (18:52.08)
in spaces with people that I have no idea who they are and you of all people know that that takes a long time for me.

Chuck LaFLange (19:03.115)
Yeah, it does. Yeah.

Chantel (19:04.656)
So in this time, with my mental health team, we have a group chat on Facebook and that's how we communicate. And there was moments where I couldn't actually contribute to the process. I couldn't speak because of the traumatizing events that were happening in my professional life.

and we've talked about those and I don't really want to showcase what it is. But this team that I put my trust and my faith into supported me through the professional development and I could dump on them. And so in the beginning when she said trust the process and you have to come up with this project, we're all like overthinking, right? And we need details and well, what do you mean? And what does this mean? And

man and all that all Michelle would say is trust the process and I'm like fuck man

Chuck LaFLange (20:06.412)
I think if I can interrupt Chantel, that that term trust the process, like so many, so many of these golden nuggets that we catch in our healing and recovery journeys. It's one of those things that, yeah, I know, but you don't until you do. What it really means to trust the process, right? It's get rid of that overthinking, just, you know what, it's gonna be what it is and I'm just gonna do the things I'm asked to do and everything's gonna be okay.

And even that, it's such an oversimplification of what it really means to trust the process, I think. So anyway, continue. I just kind of wanted to jump on that verbiage, if you will.

Chantel (20:43.632)
It's okay. So there, I just, it was the most phenomenal 10 months of my life. And I remember going to the two day orientation and you have to sleep in a hotel and you have to stay away from home. And I was like, I quit this program.

Chuck LaFLange (20:53.036)
Awesome.

Chuck LaFLange (21:05.772)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Chantel (21:08.24)
I'm out. I'm not going. I'm not fucking sleeping there. It's not happening. So then so then I'm bouncing it off of my supports, right? And I remember walking up to the two day orientation at the althotel downtown Saskatoon. I had no idea where I was going. I had no idea how to use impark like pay for your

Chuck LaFLange (21:12.204)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Chantel (21:32.816)
Remember, I'm navigating all of these new fucking things while joining this program.

Chuck LaFLange (21:36.492)
I can totally imagine. Yeah, I could relate on different levels, but 100 % I can relate. Yes, right. Yeah.

Chantel (21:42.448)
So I'm texting work and I was like, fuck this shit, I fucking quit. I don't even know where I'm going. I don't even know what door I'm going in. So I gotta make a statement, right? So I walk into this fancy hotel and I was like, Kate, I don't belong here. And I find my way upstairs and of course I wore my retired drug dealer hoodie with this on it. I think it was this one, cause you know I have two brands, right?

Chuck LaFLange (22:07.308)
Yeah.

Chantel (22:08.464)
And I sat in the back corner and I got out all my colored pens and I lined them up and I created a safe space and I was like, fuck this. I gotta go. Like just couldn't breathe. Couldn't breathe. Couldn't breathe. And the facilitator started presenting over the two days. And I remember my coworkers saying, because they tell you don't bring your partners. So they're like, just sneak them in the hotel. So I did.

I snuck Bobby in and I was like, you know what? This is the only way it's gonna go down is if I have something safe with me. And I allowed myself that very first weekend to get vulnerable because I seen how uncomfortable and uncertain other people were. And I shared my story in a circle. And I think for me, if I reflect back,

Chuck LaFLange (22:57.612)
Grrr.

Chantel (23:07.12)
Those were the moments where I knew after listening to everybody share that we were gonna be okay. And I had more to offer them than possibly they had to offer me. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (23:20.844)
Wow, wow. So with the benefit of hindsight and some introspection, which I know you do a lot of, is that because you're...

protector, maybe because by nature you want to take, you want to look after people, you want to do right by people. Is that what helps you become more comfortable in that situation? Because if you really think about that, is it, okay, I get to help other people. Now I'm where I need to be. Is that what does it for you? Is that really what makes it more comfortable with the Benefit of hindsight or was it something else?

Chantel (23:58.256)
I have no idea what you just said. You know those moments where I'm like, Chris, I don't get it? I don't get it, bro.

Chuck LaFLange (24:00.684)
So for myself, okay, different example. When I walked into social detox for the first time, all sorts of you know, the anxieties that go with an experience like that. And, you know, whatever you've been through your own experiences of similar nature. It's a lot of fear, it's a lot of anxiety until I figure out that I'm well spoken and I can help out the guy beside me and I can, you know, I'm a bit older than most of the people here and

Now, now I'm comfortable. Now because I'm I can be I can look after some people. And maybe that's some deflection. But that's, that's where I become comfortable enough. Right? Does that make sense? Yeah.

Chantel (24:43.28)
I think for me, I was in a safe space because that retreat closed with a sharing circle. So it was facilitated by an elder. And you know, that's how I live my life in ceremony and tradition. And you know, that's where my healing journey started was with.

Chuck LaFLange (24:54.828)
Okay.

Chantel (25:08.336)
in ceremony, right? So I was like, okay, if this isn't creator telling me that you're going to be okay, then I don't know what it is.

Chuck LaFLange (25:09.548)
Yeah. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (25:16.268)
because this isn't an indigenous program, right? This isn't all, right? So the fact that it's, yeah, the fact that it's an elder really is speaking to you now because that's not what we're here for, but here we are, right? So, okay, yeah.

Chantel (25:20.56)
Well, yeah, like diverse.

Chantel (25:26.672)
Yeah. Yeah. So we have a room of all of these people and the stone's just getting passed and nobody really wants to say anything. So then I was like, man, if you don't like, bear everything but your asshole.

Chantel (25:44.88)
And allow yourself to be vulnerable. I know, but you have to get it in there somewhere. And so once I allowed myself to be myself in a space that is my way of life, it just came out. And I have no idea who these people were at that point, but I was okay with that.

Chuck LaFLange (25:45.452)
Almost went half an episode without talking about assholes. Look at that, right? Yep. Of course you do. It's a new rule for the show.

Chuck LaFLange (26:09.036)
Mm -hmm.

Chantel (26:13.68)
And I watched the shame die in a safe space as other people proceeded to share. And then that circle went on and on and on and on and I was like, okay, man. Like I committed two days of my anxiety. But that for me.

Chuck LaFLange (26:36.332)
I got I stuck my partner and I got hotel nookie to have. Could we just like hurry up and get this done?

Chantel (26:46.544)
So it was just an amazing process. And so then I had this idea, and I think you and I talk about this a lot. When you're incarcerated and you have an opportunity to...

live the con code and live the BS life and where you have the opportunity to grasp onto anything and everything you possibly can inside of there to change your life and everybody knows that's where I decided to grasp at everything.

You learn things. So I would go to challenge days and sit in these classrooms and think I'm gonna learn something new today. And the facilitator would be like, how many people have worked on personal strengths and what are values? And I would be like one of two people holding up my hand. And I was like, what? For real?

Cause I had an idea that when I got released, everybody in the free world was gonna be further along on their journey than I was. I was wrong. I was wrong.

Chuck LaFLange (27:59.82)
Yeah, you would have been very, very, very wrong. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Chantel (28:04.624)
Yeah, so I mean you go through these challenge days and then you're meeting with your team and you're like trust the process. What's the process? What's the process? Trust the process. So you just start envisioning things and and so when I think about it the process was the whole 10 months. The process was becoming vulnerable with a group of five other people that I have no idea who they are.

The process was leaning into them when I wasn't strong enough to stand alone.

and bouncing off my own mental health issues. And then we're like, well, how do we even present about mental health? Like, what is this even? Because they're not asking you to solve a community issue, right? But that's just the topic. And so then we think about it and we're like, how many times have we leaned into one another with our own personal or professional mental health issues?

Chuck LaFLange (28:54.316)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (29:06.348)
Right. Right.

Chantel (29:06.512)
and then just trusted that was a safe space. And so trusting the process, it all started coming together, right? How in leadership, and we've talked about this because we talked about your dog, right? If I'm not taking care of my mental health and I'm a leader in community, what is the ripple effect that happens to the rest of the community?

Chuck LaFLange (29:20.012)
Yes, yes.

Chuck LaFLange (29:34.22)
100%. Yeah.

Chantel (29:35.6)
So our project, I mean, we're working on it and we're like, we're just going to trust it. We're just going to trust it. And then I think it was not long before you and I talked about, okay, here's the idea. Cause I thought I was going to be in Norway and now I actually get to be there for it. But we still think this is the best way is the police officer, Grant, who's on my team.

He was shot downtown Saskatoon. And so he has the video footage, which I can't share with you, but it is online if you want to watch it. So from this podcast part, we're going to go into his video because how did that shooting ripple affect the community's mental health?

Chuck LaFLange (30:13.1)
Mm -hmm.

Chuck LaFLange (30:20.684)
Hmm.

Chantel (30:26.128)
How did that affect his children and his family? How did it affect the family of the shooter? How did it affect the shooter? How did it affect the woman in the car who was videotaping everything?

Chuck LaFLange (30:26.188)
Hmm.

Chuck LaFLange (30:36.876)
How did it affect his coworkers? How did it affect, like there's so much that happens, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Chantel (30:41.424)
Right? So as we're trusting the process, we're trusting one another to be vulnerable and share parts of our lives. And I think that's how this all is coming together.

Chuck LaFLange (30:57.42)
really really cool really really cool right

Chantel (30:59.664)
Yeah.

And you know me, you know I platform and I mean, there's only two podcasters I trust with my life and it's you and dad, but my platform is for mental health and recovery and everything under that, social media, right? So why not captivate it in a way that I recover?

Chuck LaFLange (31:17.388)
Yep, yep, yeah, yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (31:27.628)
Yeah, right. Without a doubt.

Chantel (31:28.656)
because then I'm authentically sharing the real me in the end project.

Chuck LaFLange (31:36.716)
So, and I know you're just gearing up, like just taking care, doing the project now, right? If I'm wrong, if I'm not mistaken, I should say, yeah.

Chantel (31:44.272)
Yeah, so we present on June 3rd and then I fly out to Norway on the 4th. Yeah. Yeah, anxiety.

Chuck LaFLange (31:51.116)
Wow, hey, that's coming up rather fast, right? So maybe maybe the healthy kind of anxiety. I don't know. I don't know how that looks for you. Right. For me, if I don't have a deadline, it doesn't get done. So for me, that would be a positive thing, right? Having a tight deadline to work with just the ADHD, right? So, you know, my place is a disaster until somebody's coming over. And then it's not so much kind of thing.

Chantel (32:18.352)
Let me clean that for you. OCD!

Chuck LaFLange (32:20.704)
Yeah. Although it's back. That was back in the groupie days. Dry flail it.

Chantel (32:24.4)
I'm gonna dry flail it.

Chuck LaFLange (32:30.436)
my God. If you know, you know, I'm not even going to bother explaining that one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Chantel (32:32.848)
Right? I think I brought so many perspectives to this group of people. I have no idea who they are and they're just like...

Chuck LaFLange (32:44.936)
I'm sorry.

Chantel (32:48.752)
Like we were in class yesterday and the facilitator's like, there's five F's to, I don't even know what she said. And she's like, fight, fight, freeze, feed, and reproduce. And I looked at her and I was like, no, just say it. And she's like, I was like, that's not the word. And she burst out laughing and she's like, if it was a...

Chuck LaFLange (33:02.952)
Hahaha!

Chantel (33:14.064)
If it was just me and you in the room, I would say it so by the end of it, we like, man, just just fucking say it. But building these relationships of trust with humor and in authenticity, I've gained so many supports from this program. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (33:20.812)
hahahaha

Chuck LaFLange (33:29.164)
Of course, right? Of course.

No kidding, eh? No kidding. I would give just about anything to be in the room when that presentation was made. I would hope that somebody...

Chantel (33:40.72)
Well maybe I'll just set up my phone and go live for you.

Chuck LaFLange (33:43.948)
That'd be pretty cool. That'd be pretty cool, right? Just Yeah, that's so many different perspectives on it. I want to talk more about the project is not so much a project itself, because that's still a thing in the works. But about this idea of how mental health ripples out. And how do you Okay, I guess it is about the project. I'm talking as I'm thinking here. How do you encapsulate that into a presentation? How do you?

you know, how do you, is it just speaking? Is it just, I shouldn't say just, because speaking could be a mountain unto itself to climb, but, right.

Chantel (34:18.672)
Let's eat!

Chantel (34:22.864)
So we have 30 minutes to capture this. So you and I, it's gonna be the opening, right? And then from there.

Chuck LaFLange (34:27.244)
Yes.

Chuck LaFLange (34:34.572)
Okay. Okay.

Chantel (34:37.168)
we're gonna play the video of Grant's shooting, and then from there, we're gonna break every group out, like into individual groups, and then they have to brainstorm, because I truly believe for people to engage in something, they have to be a part of it. Right?

Chuck LaFLange (34:59.436)
Okay, okay, yep, yep.

Chantel (35:01.488)
So then from there we break them out and one group is grants family and children one group is the shooter one group is like you know what like we're still trying to figure out how many groups there's gonna be and then from there you know i'm not good with technology but there's an app from your phone where

Chuck LaFLange (35:15.916)
Yeah.

Chantel (35:29.552)
you can actually write, okay, what words what comes to mind when you think of this and so then on the screen it will come up like trauma, fear, they did it in the beginning in the orientation like in the retreat and I had no idea what I was doing and I'm like, I can't get on this app. I don't know what you know. I can't get in. I don't know how.

Chuck LaFLange (35:50.956)
Of course, of course. How else does it happen with Chantel? Right? Yeah, of course.

Chantel (36:00.816)
And then at the end of it, we have to debrief the 10 months. And so it's a two page summary or some people are making a pamphlet and I was like, yeah, no, no, no, like none of that. I don't know how we're debriefing it yet. I don't know what that's gonna look like. Do you? Okay.

Chuck LaFLange (36:19.916)
I know how. I know how. yeah. We do an interview with each person individually on your team. That's what we do. Yeah. That's what we do. Yeah. Five minutes of pop. Some preset questions. And then, yeah.

Chantel (36:29.104)
That's what I was thinking. That's what I was thinking. I just got to make sure that they're okay with it.

No. yeah, preset questions five minutes and then edit it down to like, right? Because.

Chuck LaFLange (36:44.012)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've already got the whole thing just like that boom in my head, right? So yeah.

Chantel (36:49.072)
Well, that's what I was thinking yesterday is like, okay, we're going to start with this, we're going to end with this and possibly on the 13th when we all meet if we can all just hop into the studio. I'm going to propose that to them.

Chuck LaFLange (36:55.468)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (37:02.892)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, well, and we'll talk some more about that. I've got some some individual ideas on how to make that work. We've done something like this similar for the for the Mission Community Services out in Mission, B .C. when they did a fundraiser. I think maybe when I talked about that was a long time ago, that was a solid year ago now. A bunch of people volunteered to be homeless for 24 hours.

Chantel (37:10.064)
Okay.

Chantel (37:30.444)
they do that here.

Chuck LaFLange (37:31.86)
do they? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just as a, hey, what can you do? And they have to leave their keys and their wallets and their money, right? And it was something else, right? So we did an entry and exit interviews for all of those people with the same kind of questions. And I put that together into a presentation. So yeah, I think it would be powerful. Yeah. Yeah, very, very cool. Yeah.

Chantel (37:51.408)
I think that would be cool to kind of finish off the same way that we started and then all of the meat and potatoes is in the middle, right? Objective, content, process.

Chuck LaFLange (37:59.468)
Yeah, of course, of course. Yeah.

Yep. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think that's wonderful. I do. It's been an interesting conversation, Shendal. I really want to see the final outcome because of that spiral effect that it has, right? And I'll take it, we'll come for a circle back to the beginning of the episode. These two different passings in our worlds, right? The ripple effect.

that Devin had in his life was amazing. The ripple effect that his death has had is going to be going on for so long. So many people are affected by this. But for the short term for the long term for for all of it, right? No, he's got a daughter. He's got his parents who have watched him succeed and bloom and shine his light like so few people in the world and then boom, right? So

Chantel (38:40.912)
Yeah. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (39:02.604)
How do you address that as a community is a curious thing for me, most certainly, right? And definitely an important thing. Why don't we move into daily gratitudes? This has been interesting. Not really the conversation I thought we were gonna have, I'll be honest with you. So that's cool though, it's cool, because I just, I don't know, I thought we were just gonna have a conversation, do an episode thing, and it is kind of an episode thing. It's different, it's weird, I like it, I like it. So.

Chantel (39:21.296)
Well, what did you think we were going to do? I had no idea what we were going to do.

Chuck LaFLange (39:32.46)
Let's see how it goes. Yeah, I'm looking forward to putting this one out. Well, it's just.

Chantel (39:34.736)
Let's see how it goes because I'm putting all my trust in you.

Chuck LaFLange (39:39.212)
Well, of course, of course, right. It's just, it's a totally different thing, just to sit here and have a conversation that isn't issue based or isn't about all the different things, right. And there's so many things that I'm fired up about these days, so many fucking things that I am fired up right about right now. I will take a minute here. We had a guest who was a friend of mine from 20 years ago, back in my using days. Randomly, I see this page like

like, like a post of ours on Ash is Awesome. I'm like, who's this? Jen Zingel. Who the fuck? No fucking way. Well, don't I know Jen from 20 years ago? She's got a recovery podcast out of Calgary. Right? Yeah. And it turns out and it is an amazing show. She's very much a 12 stepper. And of course, I'm not. So she came on with Lisa and I last weekend. And we had it's a rare thing to find somebody with opposing views that you can have just a genuine conversation with.

Chantel (40:17.04)
That's awesome.

Chuck LaFLange (40:35.948)
where it's not an argument, it's not even a debate, it's not even trying to convince the other person of your way of seeing things. Just an exchange of ideas, right? And she's one of those people that's very much, you know, yeah, it was a great conversation. So I've offered to bring her on on a semi -regular basis as well. So, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. But yeah, why don't we move into daily gratitudes and we'll go from there. So what are you grateful for today, Chantelle?

Chantel (40:40.24)
It's just an authentic. Yep. Yep.

Chantel (40:54.352)
Nice. Nice.

Chantel (41:05.808)
Today I am grateful that we hopped in the studio earlier than schedules. Because now it's out of the way and it takes one last thing off of my plate and it lessens my anxiety. I am grateful for the rain. It's been raining for two days here. Just washing away, you know, just washing away. Fresh start. And

Chuck LaFLange (41:13.548)
Ha ha ha ha.

Chuck LaFLange (41:20.108)
Yes.

Chuck LaFLange (41:26.316)
Haaaa

Chuck LaFLange (41:32.876)
Yes.

Chantel (41:35.536)
I'm grateful for Trevor. He was a great part of my life and everything that he taught me.

Chantel (41:47.6)
and that he has a safe journey home and that everybody whose life he's impacted, they just take his kindness and pay it forward because that's the type of person he is.

Chuck LaFLange (42:02.22)
oof

Myself, I'm always grateful for a conversation with you Chantel. We talk plenty online, but it's rare that we actually talk talk and That's crazy. It's crazy that we were two minutes apart from each other and never met and now we talk as much as we do and we're on Literally the opposite sides of the world as far apart from each other as you can get in this thing called earth So I think that's a it's pretty amazing thing to say the least right? I'm also always grateful for this dumbass beside me my dog

Chantel (42:32.304)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (42:34.348)
He just constantly, you know, he knows like these last couple days have been rough. And he is literally on my feet all the time. Right? Because he knows they just know they're wonderful. Right? So I mean, his new name is still get the fuck out of my way. But I love him anyway. So what is it with a dog? We get to the top of the stairs. And he stops like I'm going to stop like I might not go down the stairs. He's right in front of me and he just stops every time. It's like dude.

Chantel (42:50.32)
Stop it!

Chuck LaFLange (43:03.5)
If I fall down these stairs, nobody's even gonna fucking know. I'm gonna lay here with a broken leg. You're gonna starve to death. And that's the way it's gonna play out. People are gonna wonder, you know, nobody's gonna come by and check up on me. So like, stop it. Don't you ever say that again. He would starve to death. No, he would eat me. He would eat me. I know he would. Yeah, I know he would. Fuck, he's not a cat. Anyway, all right. That's what cats do. Like they would, like every cat will eat every owner when they die, given the opportunity.

Chantel (43:10.736)
You'll just eat your leg!

Chantel (43:20.432)
He would eat you! Hey, let's be real!

Chantel (43:33.712)
I'm excited to go home now.

Chuck LaFLange (43:33.74)
Right? Did you know that? It's a thing. It's a thing. I'm telling you. I'm also grateful for every single person who continues to like, watch, comment, share, do all the things, talk about the show, tell your friends and family. Every time you do any one of these things, you're getting me a little bit closer to live my best life. My best life is to make a humble living spreading the message. The message is this. If you're an active addiction right now, today could be that day. Today could be the day that you start a lifelong journey.

Chantel (43:40.24)
It's real!

Chuck LaFLange (44:00.332)
Reach out to a friend, reach out to a family member, call in the detox, go to a meeting, pray, go to church, I don't care. Do whatever it is you've got to do to get that journey started because it is so much better than the alternative. If you have a loved one who's suffering an addiction right now, you're just taking the time to listen to our conversation. If you just take one more minute of your day and text that person, let them know they are loved. Use the words.

Chantel (44:20.016)
You are loved.

Chuck LaFLange (44:22.444)
That little glimmer of hope just might be the thing that brings them back.

Chuck LaFLange (44:28.588)
good stuff.