257 - AARC DR. VAUSE

, Ciara can you just kind of give us the one minute version? What is AARC

Ciara (05:22.376)
Absolutely. So AARC stands for the Alberta Adolescent Recovery Centre, which was established over 30 years ago now. The AARC programme is a it's a research backed long term treatment model that serves youth between the age of 12 and 21 and their impacted loved ones or family members. I'm a mom who came through treatment here with my son three years ago.

And it made such a difference having access to the entire family support. We all needed help. It was a tough journey, as it is for every family that arrives at the AARC doors. So the family component was particularly important for us. So by long term, on average, families are in the AARC program for between eight to 10 months. And that's a unique component of treatment here at AARC.

And it really allows for a lot of healing time for all the family members. Of course, the client is on the receiving end of the majority of the support. How that looks for clients, the unique components of AARC are that we have a peer support model here. So the majority of our peer support staff are graduates of the AARC program themselves.

So really work here to give back what they've been gifted with. And that's an incredible component to watch. I get to witness that every day. There's kids here working now that stayed in my home during treatment. And they're just amazing. They're amazing at what they do.

Chuck (07:04.024)
I think if you had to capitalize anything in that entire statement, it would be peer support, peer support, peer support. Because I think when people hear that, there's kind of a, you don't really know what you're saying when you say peer support. And for me, most certainly not. Peer support now, especially in the addiction field is almost, it's a very, not thrown around in a bad way, but it's a very common phrase to hear. Maybe is a better way to say that. You know, there's peer support where it's, but when, yeah, right, right. But when AARC says peer support,

Lisa (07:29.35)
It's like a big umbrella, right?

Ciara (07:31.08)
Mm -hmm.

Chuck (07:33.784)
Holy, do they mean peer support in a super crazy way, not crazy way, in a super magnified way, in a way that I've never heard of anything before. And we definitely wanna get into that, into how all that works. Maybe that's a good way to jump off. Doctor, if you wanna take that and just kind of explain what that component is in as many, well, in the way you're gonna explain it.

Ciara (08:02.573)
Well, I think what's really important as we get out in, I've been out to field 34 years. And so I came here, like I said, to Dr. Lisa from Vancouver to consult on this project. It was nowhere. But I spent five years with an incredible doctoral committee. I've sent you some of the qualifications of that group. It was phenomenal. And I think it's important to be very academic based. And that allows us to, you know,

At the start of AARC, there was very few, there was no long -term treatment centers in Canada. First one was in Yorkton in 1985. So I spent five years working with this group to develop AARC and the descriptive research that we came up with, five major points with AARC, was peer counseling, the recovery homes, the therapeutic process, the family systems work.

and the structuring discipline, all put together in that combination. And then it was dropping the gloves, we're old hockey guys, me and Chris, and starting with one kid. And I came to believe, came to, I believed we could help them. Today, I know we can. So let's go with the peer counseling, which is critical to what we're doing here. And I started that when I was a guidance counselor in...

Saskatchewan, working on the reserves and working in Kamsac where I started working with peers. We had the first parent executive, provincial executive for the high schools. And it was something that I just kind of fell into, kids working with kids. And going back to, you know, really kind of keeping it simple, coming into AARC, it's a really key component of this program. So I started with, I hired two kids to sit in group, had one kid.

took them home and start building the program. But the peer counselors to me are a significant, they're critical to what we're doing. I love working with the peers because they've been through ARC, they've been out a year, they come back in, they're passionate about what they're doing, but they understand this disease and nobody can reach that new kid like a kid that's gone through it.

Ciara (10:29.517)
that is doing really well in their life, but they know the disease, they know the shame, they know the guilt, they know the anger, and they can provide that hope in human form of a peer. It's not an adult coming to them. They relate to those peers. And when you come here, I show up every day to work here at 630. Well, we open the doors at 630.

I start with a bunch of miracles. Kids that have been there, done it, passionate about what they're doing, and they can read that kid. And the other part of it is, is they have an incredible care and love for their client. And that comes across pretty clear, but they're also strong. They also know that when that kid comes in, they're shattered, they're angry, they know all the denial. And so...

They're just critical to this organization. Now, there's the criticism while they're not trained and they don't have all this professionalism behind them. And that's okay. They're not doing the clinical work. We have a clinical committee. We have clinicals. Now I have people like where I'm working here today, 32 years later.

Chuck (11:42.424)
They're peer support. They're not clinicians, right? Yeah, yeah.

Ciara (11:55.885)
other two clinicals have, well three clinicals have masters in counseling. They're certified. Now they've been through ARC. Donnie's got 25 years. He went through ARC. Kelly's got 15 years. The other guy's got 20 and he, they're all chartered, but they've sat in that darkness. And I'm telling you,

I still, to me, one of my favorite things is coming to work with these young kids because they're so freaking on fire and they're so good. They're not caught up in a bunch of other stuff. They're just there. They care about the kids. And that's part of the structure of what we do. It's not like we just throw the peers out there. There's a whole process to that. But that's a real significant part of what we're doing here.

Lisa (12:32.038)
Mm -hmm.

Lisa (12:49.318)
and

Chuck (12:51.512)
I was gonna say, I see you've got something to say, you gotta just jump in on him. Absolutely. I've only talked to him for like an hour in my life, but I can tell you right now, you just gotta jump in if you want to. Absolutely.

Lisa (12:52.198)
And I was

Ciara (12:57.)
I'm done.

Ciara (13:02.248)
Yeah.

Ciara (13:03.885)
I'm starting, Dr. Lisa, I'm starting to come out of my shell now, because I met Chris. Yeah, yeah. Thank you.

Chuck (13:07.384)
Hahahaha

Lisa (13:08.23)
It's beautiful. I love watching it unfold. No, I was just going to point out that for people who say that is to remind ourselves of AA, you know, and the number of people that AA has helped, is helping, will continue to help. They're not trained, you know, and you know what I mean?

Ciara (13:29.229)
professionals.

Chuck (13:30.648)
Their peer support is what they are really at the end of the day, right? I mean, it's just another version of that, right?

Ciara (13:34.253)
Well, I've had to defend it, Dr. Lisa, in my doctoral work. And the paraprofessionals, the research that I have, I mean, my PhD is 1994, but from very credible academic work, that the paraprofessionals, the research is saying can do as good a work in certain environments, even better sometimes than the professionals. Now, that's really hard for professionals that have spent their lives being very committed and educated.

And some kid has the ability to reach that kid before the professionals. And I get that as, you know, who I am, but those kids, initially that's where they get start to build the trust with those kids. They do work that they know, they know the solution and they know the way out. And so...

Chuck (14:23.8)
Yeah, right. Yeah.

Lisa (14:25.926)
And I remember in residency, I remember at one of our, you know, we had to do training obviously in various therapy modalities. And I remember one of our didactic teachings on therapy, you know, the psychiatrist teaching us had presented a paper that we were reviewing and it was basically what you're describing. It said that the number one predictor of a therapeutic outcome is not the education of the therapist, it's the rapport.

Ciara (14:53.453)
Exactly. The relationship that they have, and it's a language of the heart, but there's another part to this of them understanding the steps and the recovery because they've all gone through the steps, they've all gone through work, they've seen the solution, and so I agree with you that those kids start to trust those peers and so they take the criticism, but I also want to clarify that

Chuck (14:56.504)
Yeah.

Ciara (15:22.125)
We have a clinical team around them. They're not making the clinical decisions on medication and all that, but when you put them on the front line, I'm telling you, to me, you just have to watch those kids work and the respect I have for them. And they're my, they're our team. We're unified and it's a tough job, just like what you're, even what you're going through today. They've gone through the losses they've got, and they need support from the adults and our clinical team.

Lisa (15:36.454)
Mm -hmm.

Lisa (15:40.678)
Yeah. Yeah.

Ciara (15:52.045)
But you know, where I sit with our clinical team, Donnie and Kelly and Joel are all masters level clinicians that have sat in the first chair, first row at arc and know the way out and know how to, cause those peers also going back to that, Chris, they need support too. They're young, but they need that adult support. And, and just like I've watched them be destroyed by losing a client that OD'd and died.

Lisa (16:00.006)
Mm -hmm.

Ciara (16:21.678)
And that's where we step in and support them through that grieving and they got to go back in there. So they're young, but it's the therapeutic community we have around those kids. Let them do their job. That's their role.

Lisa (16:33.766)
And I think like, you know, again, for Chris and I, not being people who work at AARC and actually are the session that we did with Kara a few weeks ago was the most information I'd heard about AARC, which made me very excited. But really, like the fact that you guys engage the families, engage the peers, and have the clinical side of it as well being met, it is this incredibly holistic,

program that is tending to every single aspect that needs to be met if you're trying to help somebody beat this vicious disease.

Ciara (17:03.309)
Yeah, exactly.

Ciara (17:13.805)
And that's a great term, Doc. It's vicious. Like, if you don't have a solution here, don't open these guys up and go at this. But, you know, we know that it came to believe 32 years ago, came to know that the majority of our kids can get through this and get to the other side. There's your, just like, hey, yeah, we base a lot of the therapy. I spent two years writing their treatment plans.

on any 12 -step study I could find on that therapeutic process. There's a real therapeutic process behind AA, but it's put in pharmacology in simple terms. The simple actions you take, here's a chapter in the big book, into action. They take actions, then the thinking and feelings follow. So the sophistication is the simpleness, and those kids can get into the simpleness. But on the other hand, and we...

Chuck (17:55.128)
Yeah.

Ciara (18:13.069)
talked a little bit about this, having our two psychiatrists at work with us, there's a comorbidity with these kids. It's very complex. But the solution has to be put in very simple terms to them.

Lisa (18:28.998)
and what you're just describing too with the big book. I mean that that basically is cognitive behavioral therapy. Right? How you behave affects how you think and how you feel, right? And so again that's that whole thing of you know you don't need to be a master's therapist or a psychiatrist or whatever to be able to play a huge role. And I agree with you. I think that that lived experience piece is critical.

Chuck (18:34.456)
I was just thinking that. Thank you for saying that. I'm not very enough to say that, but I'm glad that you did. Yeah.

Ciara (18:34.957)
There you go.

Ciara (18:41.485)
Yeah.

Lisa (18:56.166)
And I would almost challenge too that peer support, while I think it's important for everybody, I almost would want to guess that it's even more important for adolescents than it is for adults.

Ciara (19:09.549)
Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, because you're because when they, yeah, because when they come in, just remember, as you know, as soon as they start using drugs compulsively, their adolescent development stops. So they're very immature. And that an addict is very selfish anyway. I mean, it's written in the big book, the number one issue is selfishness. So they're very narcissistic. They're very egocentric. But the peers, they want that except every one of those kids.

Chuck (19:09.848)
well, yeah, right. Yeah.

Ciara (19:10.824)
Yeah.

Lisa (19:12.326)
Right?

Lisa (19:25.03)
Mm -hmm.

Ciara (19:38.733)
I've worked with 666 graduates. They want to be accepted by somebody. They're looking for acceptance. So they start to get it in a healthy way from these peers. But they all, I'll tell you, the bottom line with every kid that's worked there, including all my staff members, is that shame. And if you can't get to the shame of those kids, some it's vicious anger, some it's depression, whatever. But they...

Lisa (19:43.59)
Yeah. Yeah.

Chuck (19:57.784)
my god.

Ciara (20:06.957)
their solution is drugs. And when we take that away, that's when it becomes difficult because that's what they've relied on to deal with their emotions and feelings. And back to what we talked about, the disease. Their brain is in development, they're so vulnerable, so their pleasure part of their brain is now, their first instinct all the time is to do drugs. It's a relief. So how do you compete with that?

Chuck (20:17.816)
yeah, it's a hardwired coping mechanism now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Chuck (20:33.208)
If I, I'll speak back to what Lisa was getting at there with even more important for kids. And I'm thinking it's a developing thought, so bear with me. But as an adult, when I come into recovery, every person I deal with is an adult. So, right? But as a kid, when you come into recovery, if you don't have those peers, every person's an adult and there's a real disconnect there.

Ciara (20:53.837)
Right.

Ciara (20:57.549)
Right. And that's.

Lisa (20:57.606)
Yeah. And I think part.

Chuck (20:57.688)
Right? You know, I mean, I could pretend to be hip to the groove all I want, but like at the end of the day, I'm not pulling it off. Right? So.

Lisa (21:03.526)
And I think part of it too is that one of the things that I find with anybody that I meet who is in active addiction is there's a lot of minimizing and a lot of justifying, right? They minimize their behaviors, they minimize their use, they minimize the power their use has over them and they justify, justify, justify. So if you are an adolescent and you come into a program where every person helping you is an adult, that is the, it's like we're laying it out on a silver tray.

Ciara (21:15.117)
Mm -hmm.

Lisa (21:32.326)
for them to justify why we don't know what we're talking about, because they're like, you don't get it, you're adults, you don't get me. Justification stamped with like, you know, a big ball of wax. So the minute you put them with peers, you take that, the power of justification away from them, because when their peer sits there and says, I know exactly what you're going through, they can't justify that you don't, because they relate.

Ciara (21:34.957)
Exactly.

Chuck (21:36.696)
Yeah.

Chuck (21:41.656)
yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Ciara (21:53.261)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, and I think, back to academia, because that's important in protecting AARC, I've had to do the academia. The work that I did initially in my doctor work, and we didn't have adolescent treatment centers in Canada, they put them in adult treatment, and the research showed youth do not do well in adult treatment centers. It's a whole different, and it's more complex to treat them because it's not just an adult.

Chuck (21:56.44)
Yeah, yeah.

Ciara (22:24.333)
doesn't work for them see you later you're dealing with the family you're dealing with adolescent development you're dealing with immaturity they don't know what they don't know it's way more complex but when but there's the fuck

Chuck (22:36.888)
I think the raw minimum for teen treatment should be something designed for them. How you're going about it is next level, but I think raw minimum, it should be, let's keep the teens together and not put them in an adult. I mean, that's just, yeah, right.

Ciara (22:46.925)
yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Lisa (22:49.926)
Even in residency, it's mandatory that we spend a year doing child and adolescent work. And I can tell you that for me, I saw how much more complex child and adolescent psychiatry was compared to adult psychiatry for the exact reasons that Dr. Voss just said. We would have kids come into an inpatient unit.

Ciara (23:04.501)
Exactly

Lisa (23:12.934)
where there was clear boundaries, everything was established, and we would see them improve. Then we would host family meetings and we would see what was going on at home. We would see all the interpersonal dynamics between mom and dad, between mom and child, between dad and child. All of those relationships are unique entities that need to be tended to. And you realize just how complex it is to try to do child and adolescent work because of those layers.

Ciara (23:41.933)
And if I could add something there, add a lot, Chris, sorry here, but, but, but that's the point, Dr. Lisa, what we're doing here, if we didn't have the success we have, it's too labor intensive, it's too difficult. And you're not, you're not exactly, you know, have the system embrace you, but we have success. And that's what it is for me.

majority of our kids and I can I had to do research from outside of Canada and bring in qualified people to validate our model and and But I agree with you it's like who wants to do this it's These they come there like we're talking about the mountaintops. I had to graduate another one tonight the graduation last night The kid that graduated last night. He was trying to kill he was trying to kill himself in AARC

Lisa (24:40.614)
Mm -hmm. Yeah, I'm not that doesn't surprise me. Yeah.

Ciara (24:41.357)
Cause he wants to die. Well, you take away the drugs, you better be prepared for a high risk client. The other one is he'd been through, I won't say which program three times, but he graduated last night. So what happened from that point of extreme denial where he doesn't believe he has a problem to where this is, this is the secret sauce here of getting to the point he's grateful last night. I got a little.

Lisa (24:47.59)
Mm -hmm.

Ciara (25:10.573)
15 year old graduating tonight. She was on the streets doing every, they couldn't find her. She's graduated tonight. Now we, and, and it's the start of the recovery process. Now it's habilitation. She's got enough skills to go back to school on level three and four and start, and then come back to the center and then be involved in her own recovery. Now that, and they've got many more years of this chronic disease.

But, yeah.

Chuck (25:40.984)
If I'm going to interrupt you there, just before we get too far away from that, from the thing that I want to jump in on here and, and Kara, I'm going to get you to answer it. You know why? Cause you're going to be quicker about it. Sorry, doctor. When you say somebody is graduating, can you define what that means exactly? And because to somebody who's not familiar and who hasn't had the conversations with you that we have, that might be a bit of a, you know, a mystery there. So.

Ciara (25:52.488)
Ha ha ha ha ha!

Chuck (26:09.816)
If you can just define what it means for someone to say that they have graduated the ARC program, what does that mean?

Ciara (26:14.248)
Of course. So when we celebrate a graduation, we have a ceremony here at ARC. for sure. So they've. Yeah, so they have finished the program. And what that means is that they have completed work on the 12 steps of AA and worked through for them the 12 steps of AA for their family.

Chuck (26:19.32)
Sorry, no, what did it take for them to graduate? Like what, like the, yeah, yeah, right, yeah.

Ciara (26:42.152)
the 12 steps of the Al -Anon program and really stepping into recovery as a full family unit in a way that, you know, and I can speak for my own family, we just have a different understanding of addiction, a different way of supporting each other. And really, you know, post -graduation can be nerve wracking.

Chuck (26:49.624)
Okay.

Ciara (27:09.128)
Right. We have a fantastic support system at AARC here for eight to ten months. And as I mentioned in the last episode, you know, you're building your community as you're going through the AARC program. So it's yeah, it's very, very important. Like for the kids here at AARC, AA meetings are integrated into their week when they hit a certain level. So really, you know, set up for success integrated into AA. And yeah.

Chuck (27:36.92)
And so that graduation, the timeline on that graduation would be eight to 10 months. Typically, you've spoken to that, right? So, okay, yeah, yeah, okay.

Ciara (27:41.64)
Eight to 10 months on average, yeah, but I mean, if there's longer needed, like it's everybody at ARC is treated on a case by case basis. So it really is whatever the family needs.

Chuck (27:50.488)
I'm just, okay, so I really just wanted to zone in on that, right, on what it means to graduate, right, so.

Ciara (27:55.469)
That's a good question. Yeah.

Lisa (27:57.222)
Now are they sober that duration of time like if somebody's in the program and they have a relapse at month for like what happens does the clock reset do they.

Ciara (28:04.429)
Then we did. Yeah, they, we go back, but relapse. It's not going through all the steps just to, just to kind of put this again in simple terms, Chris, there's four levels. I, I, what I did is I broke up the 12 steps in, you know, steps one, two, and three is level one. And that's a lot of the denial and looking at the solution levels to they go back home.

Chuck (28:08.248)
back to.

Chuck (28:16.952)
Yep.

Ciara (28:30.733)
they're in four and five, six and seven, but it's not just the steps, it's the habilitation and all the clinical work that goes with that. So levels three and four, they go back to school and work eight and nine, they get right with the outside world and 10, 11, 12 are the growth steps. But I took that, I studied this for two years with this clinical PhD committee and put this package together and that's kind of the...

Chuck (28:38.936)
Of course.

Ciara (28:59.469)
the program of going through this process, this complex process. Back to what I said before, the sophistication is developing those treatment plans in a simple way that they can check it off. It's not a whole bunch of blah, blah, blah. It's the actions they take and that's basically the core of AARC is those four levels. And the average length of stay that we've...

validated through Dr. Ria's study is 277 days. So that's kind of the...

Chuck (29:34.136)
So a lot of treatment centers, most, who use the 12 -step model, are basically, it's a treatment center that brings 12 steps to the people there. You are talking about something, and this is just dawning on me now, even after the conversations we've had. You designed your treatment model around the 12 steps. That is different than anything I've heard.

Ciara (29:56.365)
and the other comorbidity issues and the habilitation. So the treatment plan is just not just the 12 steps of.

Chuck (30:04.664)
No, that's a starting point for it, I guess, right? But it's, yeah. Yeah, okay, okay, okay. That's a very different thing, and it's a very different thing than what I've heard from other treatment centers, actually. Very different. That's interesting. It's really interesting. Yeah, I like it.

Ciara (30:07.149)
Well, let's say integrated through the whole process.

Ciara (30:20.52)
Before it's sorry, before we move on from the youth support at the youth peer support piece, I just want to share my perspective on that through the parent lens. And, you know, Dr. Lisa, when you were talking about, you know, all of the people that are involved with these youth through the system and different programs. Absolutely, they're all adults. So the.

Chuck (30:26.452)
Yeah. Yeah.

Ciara (30:48.904)
The level of relatability is just so, so difficult to find. And that's as a parent coming into treatment, just literally tail between my legs. What do I do? I'm almost out of options to sit in a group therapy session and witness the glimmer of hope when there was another youth having walked the walk that my son had.

Like eye contact wasn't even a thing with my son and our family. By the time we came to Ark, there was so much guilt and shame around where we had reached. And when I saw that eye contact with another youth, it was just, I knew there was something different. That was the moment that I was like, this is something different. It was so, it was a difficult spot for our family to try another treatment option because we had tried so many.

And that's why I feel passionate about what I do because this is something different. And yes, it's intense, but by the time you're you've reached dark, your alternative is also intense. And it just that was the moment I knew treatment was different. Absolutely.

Ciara (32:00.749)
I'll just, yeah.

Lisa (32:03.462)
Yeah, it's like the magic, the sixth sense, you know, and, you know, one of the things Dr. Vassa, I don't know if Kara has shared with you, but, you know, we after we did the first podcast with AARC, and I had been very honest about the fact that I was disappointed that I had known so little about AARC up until that session. I actually work with a lady who has a son who's struggling with addiction.

Ciara (32:20.717)
Mm -hmm.

Lisa (32:29.958)
And, you know, she, of course, at work had asked me for advice, and we had talked about what was going on. And one of the things I kept saying to her is, You need to drop the hammer hard. You know, I was like, Do not make light of this. Do not minimize this. Do not accept closed doors. And again, this is

Ciara (32:42.957)
Mm -hmm.

Lisa (32:53.414)
in part from the lived experience of having a sibling who suffered an addiction and has suffered since he was an adolescent and seeing how in the early days, it was like, you know, well, like we were all trying, but there was again, a lot of failures and a lot of, a lot of, a lot of heartbreak. And for me, when I think back to that, and now you're talking about going back 25 plus years, that's probably the

Ciara (32:57.933)
Mm, there you go.

Ciara (33:10.797)
Heartbreak.

Lisa (33:23.302)
biggest, I don't know if regret is the right word, but maybe regret that I have is that did we hit hard enough, I guess. And I'm talking about having a sibling who went to residential addiction treatment for six months and 10 months, but I still felt looking back like it hadn't been enough. And that was my advice to her was,

Ciara (33:32.429)
Right.

Ciara (33:36.653)
yeah. Yeah. You've been there. Rehab shuffle.

Chuck (33:44.792)
there she is. Okay, good. yay. Yeah, no, we're good. Yeah, okay.

Lisa (33:50.278)
is that me? Sorry. But that was my advice to her looking back. And so again, recognizing who listens to this podcast, right? And I think it's, it's families, as Chris and I say, people suffering an addiction are not, you know, tuning into a podcast. And to me, like my biggest advice, honestly, as a psychiatrist, as someone who works in Psych Emerge, as someone who has a loved one who battled this for 25 years, there is nothing too big.

Ciara (33:51.053)
She's back.

Ciara (33:59.853)
Yep.

Ciara (34:05.677)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Lisa (34:20.486)
There is no, there's no intensity of support that is too much. And I really firmly believe that if we can intervene hard in adolescence, that's, that's how you win, you know? The longer this disease has a hold of somebody, the longer it will last.

Ciara (34:32.589)
Yeah.

Ciara (34:36.013)
Yeah, yeah.

more coboridity, that's what you see. We have a little floss, no, it's pharmacology again, doc, but it's treating the families is a lot of times as difficult as the kid, because they sabotage it. They so fearful, they're so scared their kid's gonna die. And they accept the unacceptable.

Lisa (34:41.67)
the harder it is to break it.

Lisa (34:55.942)
Yes.

Ciara (35:06.125)
over and they lower the bar and lower the bar and so it's kind of like that's Al -Anon untreated. Do you accept the unacceptable? Why are you doing that? We don't do that at ARC. You know what? This is a big thing from growing up in Saskatchewan. We start off with the kids. It's way too simple, Doc. Manners is a big deal. Please and thank you and sit up straight and be respectful in the homes. We mean it. So...

Lisa (35:27.046)
Mm -hmm.

Lisa (35:31.27)
Yeah. Yeah.

Chuck (35:32.536)
Yeah.

Ciara (35:33.581)
But they respond to that, like the one part of the program that I think kind of gets missed a lot, I based the fifth part on structure and discipline. Discipline's a good word. And classroom management stuff, I come from an educational background, of working with your clients and teaching those kids. Like, we start off, we're talking like this kid that graduated last night, he wants to kill himself. He doesn't want to be at arc.

But manners is a big deal. So this is the other one, which I'm sure we'll discuss as we go through this, because I know that'll be a question. How do you take that kid that nobody can reach, hasn't reached, he failed three treatment centers, this guy. So did the other one, Penelope, she did it twice. How do you take that kid that's so out of control and put him in a home? That's one of the chief criticisms of AARC. And...

but I'm sitting here, I just like showing off my PhD here a little bit, doc. That's 1500 pages of studying this model and then taking the first kid home. All the stuff we're talking about is good research -based academic work, but then you gotta take that sophistication into simple. You're going into a home.

Ciara (36:34.696)
Ha ha ha.

Chuck (36:35.64)
Hahaha!

Ciara (36:57.837)
Manners is a big deal, but you send them home with an old comer. And I know it is high risk, but we're certified by CAC. We're accredited our homes, licensed by the government because they're safe. They're structured, but they're a manage for, you know, how do you do that? Well, I ran the first home. Now, when I say about my wife being a saint, we ran a home with nine kids a night for 340 some days.

Chuck (37:20.76)
Yeah. Yeah.

Ciara (37:28.365)
I had my little boy that played Broncos, was four months old. I know how to run a host home. Manners is a big deal. They respond to that. And you're never gonna win, you're never gonna win any of those kids unless they learn some good discipline about winning.

Chuck (37:28.952)
Wow.

Chuck (37:38.552)
Yeah, they do.

Lisa (37:44.422)
And I actually can appreciate how, and I hadn't thought about this last time we spoke, Kiara, but it's just like when we have kids come into hospital. They'll come into the hospital and we'll say, here are the rules here. Here's what I expected of you here. And they will behave on the unit way differently than they behave at home with mom and dad. And so to me, I would imagine it's similar that when you put them into a new home with new people,

Ciara (37:59.816)
Right.

Ciara (38:08.333)
Exactly.

Lisa (38:14.246)
where it is made very clear at the outset, this is what is expected of you here. I can fully appreciate that their behavior would be, I don't wanna say better, but do you know what I mean? That they would fall into line. Yeah. Yeah.

Ciara (38:25.581)
Yeah, compliant, compliant, compliant. We're just looking at compliant. You know, and here's the other part.

Chuck (38:26.52)
I think better is an OK word to use. Yeah, better is an OK word. Yeah. Let's stick with better. Compliant just has a certain ring to it that people don't want to hear. So let's just stick with better on this one. Yeah. Yeah. Better doesn't seem so bad now, does it, Lisa? Right? You know? Right? So.

Ciara (38:35.752)
Bit of a stretch.

Ciara (38:36.045)
Yeah, well, it's part of the part of the recovery process with the kids. But but this is when I get pumped up here because I ran a recovery home. Those kids go into care as home, they are loved. Those broken kids go in to a family that's had a broken kid that's getting better, that takes care of that kid and their love. Those I'll tell you.

Chuck (38:53.688)
Yes.

Ciara (39:03.565)
When we are certified, there's less acting out, less behavioral problems, and we're on it. 24 -7, you're on call 24 -7, you got a problem, you're not handling it well, our staff will be there in 15 minutes. Because we know it's high risk, we know it's a very, a place where it can be critical, people say, you can't care, you can't take a kid home. Heck, she just took her kid off life support three months ago.

And it's like, but then you see, see, this is the part dignity. Those kids can step up. Aaron was a good old comer. Take that kid home, make sure he's safe, care about him. And every day we're doing that. So there's, we always say the only easy day at Ark is yesterday is because you come in here, we're on it. Every freaking day it's high risk, but those kids respond to the discipline. They respond to the peer counseling. They go into a home.

Lisa (39:46.598)
Mm -hmm.

Ciara (40:02.733)
And I'm not going to tell you it's easy. And I'm not saying it's a straight line. It's that's kids and that's parents. And then, but when even for my family, like my family, my kids are good kids. They just started to love these kids. They come into the home. We tell the parents, give them rice, crispy squares and put them in bed. Don't counsel them, please. You know, just let the kids do their be kids. But.

Lisa (40:28.902)
Yeah.

Ciara (40:31.757)
That's what's different than without making, I think there's a place, I don't even want to get into it, but it's a graduate, you got the old comer with the newcomer. It's not just like we throw them in there and it's run for your place.

Lisa (40:45.254)
And Dr. Voss, one of the things that I was curious about when we when Kiara joined us last time, but she thought maybe it would be better spoken to by yourself would be, can you talk about like, what is the criteria for a kid getting accepted? So you guys meet them, assess them, what's the criteria?

Ciara (41:08.973)
There you go. So that's very important, very, very critical to what we're doing. We're not AAing a coffee pot doc, but AA is central to this. I went to look at pre -assessment, assessment, and incredible assessment protocol. We do our assessment protocol. That was a big part of my PhD, working with people that work in adolescent addiction. I mean, I had people like...

I'm name dropping, but Dr. Martha Morrison from the Anchor Group, they were all part of this PhD program. You've got to know what you got. I mean, we've turned kids away that we don't think reach our continuum of care. We based this program on the Cleveland criteria for admission. This is what the level we're looking at. And so that's what I'm saying. We have a very integrated...

Chuck (42:03.32)
To the lay person, what do you mean by Cleveland admission? I've never heard that term before, the Cleveland something admission you just said, sorry.

Ciara (42:06.797)
for me.

Ciara (42:10.7)
Well, they have it at the hospital. You have an admission criteria of all the basic symptoms and looking at where they fit on the continuum. In the hospitals in the 90s, I think they still use the Cleveland criteria. Where does this kid fit? I don't want a kid that's not addicted. We're not taking hostages here, but you're going to get criticized. You know, we get criticized while you just convince these guys. No, they go through with clinicians through, first of all, you do a pre -assessment.

Chuck (42:18.744)
Okay, okay.

Chuck (42:27.576)
Yeah. Yeah.

Lisa (42:29.958)
Hahaha!

Ciara (42:40.109)
here had to do a pre -assessment, then you do an assessment. Then we have them in here for two or three weeks. Then we have a chartered psychologist do an outside assessment. So it's very, our collateral is very thorough. Plus we also get the collateral information because they've been around, they've been to different programs. So here's the pathogen.

Lisa (43:02.118)
But so is mainly like, are you just trying to confirm that they in fact have a severe substance use disorder?

Ciara (43:06.989)
Yes, you have to. You have to have that.

Lisa (43:09.702)
Okay. And is there anything beyond that though? Like is any kid with a severe substance use disorder going to be an eligible candidate for the ARC program? No, eligible.

Ciara (43:17.677)
Ineligible?

Chuck (43:19.384)
Eligible, eligible, yeah.

Ciara (43:20.557)
Yeah, I think anybody that crossed the line into addiction, once you've crossed the line into addiction, there's no coming back. It's a chronic disease. So that's...

Lisa (43:24.198)
Yeah. Yeah.

And is there added criteria like, for example, if I think about mental health separate from addiction, like we have programs in Calgary where one of the criteria is that they have to have tried and failed other less intensive modalities. Is that?

Ciara (43:39.597)
Yeah, that's us. I think that's where I've been presented at the substance abuse network. We won't go there. But we're at its level of need. That's the Cleveland criteria. This is our level of need and the client we're looking at. By and large, they failed in other treatment facilities. They've tried absency, it didn't work, and then away we go. So...

But once you cross the line into addiction, it's just passe that abstinence is critical to their success. And so, yeah, I think there's both. I think the hard part, what you're talking about is very clinical. I have a clinical committee. I have a psychiatrist that runs our clinical committee. I have an outside psychiatrist. We all look at the file. What do we have here?

for a client, but it's so blended. Like I have kids come in, they're depressed. Is it drug induced? Is the bipolar drug induced? And it could be both. That's why you need both. You need to be able to assess this kid's usage. Now, this is the difficult part of the assessment. We use peers on the assessment too, because they read, because they lie. They minimize all the time. no.

And when we start working with these kids, open meetings Friday night with the kids and parents, they love getting up and talking about how they conned all the counselors. And when they come in and ask, are you doing any drugs? Well, they lie. Let's just start with that then. And they do. And so we got to get a clinical picture. And then it comes with time too. Like we'll take a kid not giving us much. We got collateral information. We got...

Chuck (45:20.36)
yeah, of course they do.

Ciara (45:33.069)
the parents talking about the pathogenesis where they're at. But then it gives a time. But as they start to trust the process and work, the peers pull out more information. They're going home with Aaron, they're working with peers and they start telling the addicts, they can't go too long without starting getting into stories and telling their drug stories and their drug history. So it's just check, check, check. And then we do a final.

decision on whether this kid meets the criteria of art, but they have had to cross the line. But by and large, which is really important, that I like what you said, because you get into the 20s and that with the mental illness, these kids are starting to show signs of comorbidity. And you need to address the tension deficit or depression or schizophrenia or drug, well, we get the drug induced psychosis where that's where you need a good psychiatrist.

Come by for coffee, Dr. Lisa. You need a good psychiatrist. Dr. Hogg has worked in the early interventionist program, early psychosis program. She is gold, this lady, because we're saying, this is what we're seeing, Doc. We know that they got a drug problem. Is it drug induced or is it something, what's your primary illness?

Lisa (46:34.95)
I'm going to go ahead and close the video.

Chuck (46:35.544)
Hahaha

Ciara (47:03.085)
Is it psychosis and then drug addiction or is it addiction and psychosis? A lot of times with our kids, with time, that dissipates. But we have this gift with Dr. Hogg that a lot of our kids are on medication and she meets with them on a regular basis. But that's knowing our role, knowing the psychiatrist role, knowing we're really good at recovery. And it's going to be a, it's a complex. That's why, like you said this, it's so complex.

Lisa (47:08.71)
Mm -hmm.

Ciara (47:32.173)
What have we got here? And the other part is the assessment process. Well, they lie. you're kidding. You know, I've had very few kids. Maybe in 660 kids, maybe two kids that maximize their use. yeah, I was doing cocaine. And you knew a bus of the kids. No, you weren't. That's not how you do cocaine. You know, you're full of it, man.

Lisa (47:33.798)
Yeah. Yeah.

Lisa (47:42.534)
Yeah.

Ciara (47:58.317)
I'm sure in your field you've never seen an adolescent be grandiose. yeah. I'm, you know, yeah.

Chuck (48:04.952)
I get in my podcasting career, my short podcasting career. I've seen plenty of grandiose.

Ciara (48:12.077)
really, yeah, we live that. Yeah, but back to the, yeah. Yeah.

Chuck (48:14.84)
Yeah, absolutely.

Lisa (48:17.35)
Being on their image, that's the term I know, right? Being on your image. I remember when my brother went to a program, they weren't even allowed to cross their arms. Sitting like this was thought to be defensive and not open and on your image. And they were not allowed to sit with their arms crossed. Yeah, interesting, right?

Ciara (48:25.677)
really? Okay. really?

Chuck (48:27.16)
Really?

Chuck (48:34.968)
on your image.

Ciara (48:36.876)
Wow, okay. we let them do that at art. We'll let them do that the odd day, you know, like, but, but, but, but they're kind of right that they wrapped themselves up.

Chuck (48:38.136)
Wow. Did you just introduce a new rule to AARC? Yeah. Kiara, what you got? I'm going to cut you off, Doctor. Kiara's got something to say, and our time is becoming an issue here, so I'm going to let Kiara.

Ciara (48:39.656)
If I can just touch on it.

Yeah.

Ciara (48:51.624)
Yeah, I just wanted to touch on and absolutely it's an intensive intake process here. But again, from the parent lens, the very first person that you're connected with as a parent when you call AARC is our pre -assessment coordinator. And the very, very key component to that for me is that she is also a mom who has been through treatment. So there's that level of relatability very, very early on. I mean, I was sharing.

pieces of our journey with this lady that I had, I had, there was nobody else to talk to about that journey. So from the get -go, I understood the power of that relatability. She knew my journey, she could relate to that and the feeling of, wow, she gets this. So that's the very, very first piece of this intensive assessment process.

Chuck (49:35.672)
I'm kidding.

Ciara (49:48.84)
Like it really is, you know, I think like even talking about those simple pieces shows that ARC have like they've built a foundation made up of the best people who know like they can focus on the critical issues now. Right.

Chuck (50:07.224)
If we can move away from the clinical part of the assessment and, yeah, just move away from that for a second. For a teen to be admitted, for an adolescent to be admitted into the program, do they have to have the family there that is willing to participate in the peer support aspect of it? Is that mandatory? Yes? Okay, okay. Which is the magic, of course, to this whole thing. So,

Ciara (50:30.669)
Yes. Yeah.

Chuck (50:36.44)
It isn't for every single kid in the world that has addiction. And I just wanted to ask that part. I think the next episode we do care, we're really gonna get into what that means. And we're gonna have you on and we're gonna really dissect what that process is. Because I think that deserves its own episode, I think, right? Yeah.

Ciara (50:51.432)
Yeah.

Yeah, I think in a nutshell, it's just so important. Having been through the process myself, it's so important that there is a support system post -treatment. I mean, if you drop your kid off at ARC and pick them up 10 months later, there's a ton of resentment still outstanding. It impacts every family member. And there has to be a place to go with that in order to deal with the resentment and really hitting reset. And like it's borrowed time.

Chuck (51:03.992)
Yeah. Yeah.

Chuck (51:08.856)
Good luck.

Ciara (51:12.973)
nice.

Ciara (51:23.528)
It's borrowed time after all.

Chuck (51:23.8)
I'm kidding.

Ciara (51:24.717)
We got every walk of life here, guys, too. Like, you know, as you bring this up, Chris, you know, I'm thinking of the kid in group that we took to the gala. She's on the streets for a year and indigenous kid and just it's just tragic. But that mom loves her kid, but she doesn't know what to do anymore. And she and her family, there's lots of work to be done with her. And for them to get off drugs and for them, we'll do that with the parents. They get off. She's got.

Basically said if you're not going to quit using your kids not going to quit. So the mom quits there. She's close to graduation like we don't turn anybody away like we fundraise. We don't turn people away and they're all the same. They all get treated the same. I don't care if you're in first class or steerage on the Titanic. You're going down. And they relate to that pain. And so you know that's the part when I think we judge. Addiction.

Chuck (52:15.672)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lisa (52:16.006)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Ciara (52:24.589)
It's every walk of life. But when you get there, it's painful and ugly and vicious. And this is the part for the parents. They can't help the kid. They're way beyond the kid's parents thinking they can help him. It's got to be the professionals and a treatment center. They need to be part of the process because they can support it. And just like Kara is saying, understand addiction. But anyway.

Chuck (52:41.848)
No kidding.

Chuck (52:49.304)
Of course they do, yeah.

So, and we are, we're gonna really get into that on the next episode. To top off the hour here, I wanna ask you about some of your success rates that we talked about, of course, yesterday in a prerecord. We touched on them on the last episode with Lisa, but I wanna give you a moment to, I'm gonna say brag because you, and only because you should be able to, because you've got some pretty impressive, and I know, I don't mean you're, maybe a little bit, right, but no.

Ciara (53:16.365)
Me brag, Chris? Me brag? I know, hey, I have no, I am. no worries there. I'm proud of Kara. No, I'm serious. Like, I've been here a long time and I need some of these young psychiatrists to get, keep this ball going. Cause you've had your own pain and you're going to go through that today of loss. That's why we're freaking here.

Ciara (53:18.024)
Ha ha ha!

Chuck (53:19.608)
And I don't even mean that in a brag way. I just mean, hey, you should be proud of these numbers. So let's, let's, you know, right? Yeah. Yeah. Right. Let's so yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Ciara (53:44.717)
And so I have no problem came to believe came to know 32 years later. Our primary purpose is helping that hunter in that, that's the first new client in Cayden that want to die. And so the success rate I've had that I've been not embraced by the system, struggled for government funding. It's the best the government funding has been ever and supporting us. And that's another story, but.

Chuck (53:44.824)
Yeah, right.

Ciara (54:13.357)
I've had, I had to start with this, this beautiful little PhD that almost killed me because I was taking, I was finishing this off. We were taking nine kids home at night and night in my own home, Chris. And so it's like, and that's what fired me up though, because these kids are getting better. Not all of them. Some are going to not make it. Some are going to struggle and never get it. And some are going to die, but the majority will make it. So people say to me, yeah.

Chuck (54:27.096)
That's crazy. Yeah. Yeah.

Ciara (54:43.053)
You know, it's all anecdotal. That's what I'm saying, Dr. Lisa, you'd better do some academic good research behind it. So I, I did the PhD that was built the program. It was some descriptive research. That's my end wasn't really big the numbers, but it was 90 people, five major things, peer counseling, recovery homes, therapeutic process, family systems, and structuring discipline. That's the program. 2004.

The guy that taught me statistics in my doctoral work in Minnesota, Dr. Michael Patton, that's his gift is evaluation of programs. 80%, he went two year study, he did it. I have the documentation, the academic work of that. 80 % of our kids were, we did 100 consecutive kids, 80 % were.

were clean and sober at time of interview. The retention rate was 80%. Like eight out of 10 kids, generally, a little more than that, but eight out of 10 kids graduated, started ARC, finished ARC, 10, 12 months. Now the biggest predictor of success for kids in the research is people that complete the program. So retention rate is a big deal. Now I've had people say, yeah, whatever, you know, blah, blah, blah.

politics evaluation, they all hammer each other and you know blah blah blah. Then I had the incredible gift of Dr. Rhea, Amelia Rhea and Dr. Ken Winters who is an expert. I used him in my masters on adolescent assessment and he's helped us develop our program. They came on a site review from the Treatment Resources Institute, it's one of the most prominent research institutes in the states.

Chuck (56:11.864)
Yeah, of course.

Ciara (56:36.717)
spent a week with us, spent five days with us going through the program and they said basically this is incredible work you're doing, we need to do more research on that. So they came in and just finished, well just recently did a, spent a three year study, three papers, one published in the addiction journal. The research which I've sent to you is ironclad, it wasn't done by us, it was done by the University of Maryland, Dr. Winters.

and an anonymous donor, 73 % of our kids were sober in that sample, were sober a year later. That's phenomenal. Now,

Chuck (57:16.728)
So I just, I kind of want to round this in because it's a lot, it's a lot to kind of wrap the head around if you don't mind, Doctor, if I can do that to you. Okay, good. Okay, we are getting to the, okay, so 73 % after, one year after the program are still sober? Two years, okay, okay. That is absolutely phenomenal number, right? And then, so you just took 10 minutes to get to that point.

Ciara (57:26.189)
Can't hurt my feelings, Chris.

Ciara (57:27.848)
Hahaha.

Ciara (57:37.101)
So that's two years sobriety.

Lisa (57:40.198)
amazing.

Ciara (57:41.037)
Mm -hmm. So, -huh.

Chuck (57:46.264)
So that's what I was trying to draw out of you. No, you're not. You kind of got worse. Yeah. Okay.

Ciara (57:46.317)
Thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm getting better. I'm getting, Chris, I'm getting better. No, okay. I'm not now. Okay. Just tell me what I gotta work on.

Ciara (57:47.272)
Ha ha ha ha!

Lisa (57:47.558)
It's a good point.

Ciara (57:54.248)
Yeah

Chuck (57:58.432)
Let's get to the damn point right now. So I'm just yes. Yes. Yes.

Ciara (58:01.709)
Yeah, we're good. We're good. Majority get better. Research cruise it. Go. Hey, I'll tell you. I'll tell you. And that goes to Dr. Lisa. Phone Dr. Aria, Dr. Winters. Go to the outside people. Because I, yeah, am I pumped about AARC? Absolutely. It's the hardest thing. I am. I am. So I'm not going to apologize for being passionate about what I'm doing here. But on the other hand, and I go back to Dr. Lisa.

Chuck (58:13.016)
Yes.

Chuck (58:18.968)
Well, you should be. You should be. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Lisa (58:21.126)
Yeah.

Ciara (58:21.896)
Me too.

Chuck (58:26.968)
Nor should you, yeah.

Ciara (58:29.677)
Exactly what you're dealing with today is the hardest, hardest part of this. Some parents out there are fighting for their kids' lives. There's nothing worse than losing someone you love. So I can be pumped up, but it's not one on the mountaintops and doing podcasts. Although I love you, Chris, already. But I'm telling you, it's in the drudgery of the valley of everyday 365. We have Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving here.

Lisa (58:35.846)
Mm -hmm.

Chuck (58:46.648)
Yeah, yeah.

Ciara (58:58.06)
If you're going to face this, you better know what you're doing. You better be academic based. But the other part of it is show me your results. 277 days from the URIA study, they stay. Why did they stay? Why did those two kids stay? They could walk out of here in level two. They're going home. They're in school. They stay. Because my job, my job, Chris, and I tell those kids, and I'm a senior citizen now, Dr. Lisa.

Chuck (59:19.544)
they stay by, yeah, right.

Ciara (59:26.573)
But there's not a generation gap, there's an experience. I tell those kids when I'm in front of them, my job is for you to succeed, kid. And they know I believe it. They know. But here's the process. I don't do it for them. They gotta do it.

Chuck (59:34.136)
Yeah.

Awesome. Awesome. I'm gonna do it again. I'm gonna rein you back in. It's my new part -time job. I love it. Okay. So we can let them go. We're gonna get to what's my favourite part of the show, of course, and that is the daily gratitudes. Chivalry's not quite dead yet, so Kiara, we'll start with you on that. What you got for some gratitude today?

Ciara (59:44.84)
Ha ha.

Ciara (59:47.597)
Okay, whatever.

Lisa (59:50.374)
Ha!

Ciara (59:50.776)
Yeah.

Ciara (59:54.253)
No feelings left after 34 years, don't worry about it.

Ciara (01:00:07.496)
Sure, I've a ton to be grateful for. I think today I'm most grateful for this connection. What's happening right now. For two reasons, I think that the ARC program deserves recognition. I think what's happening right now, we should be shouting about this from the rooftops. Kids are dying. Obviously, I can speak to that from my own story.

And I just really feel like families deserve to know that this level of treatment is available. You know, there are many families that have reached desperate measures and I think it should be easily accessible. So I'm very, very grateful to you, Chris and Dr. Lisa for for valuing the message from ARC and giving us a voice. Yeah, thank you.

Chuck (01:00:50.2)
Absolutely.

Chuck (01:01:00.6)
and we do, we do. Yeah, certainly. I think I'm going to regret saying this, Dr. Voss, what you got for some gratitude today.

Ciara (01:01:10.733)
Well, let me tell you, I was born when I was really young and no, I'm just kidding. You know what? There's joy in recovery. There's joy in this hell. This is freaking hell. But just what we're talking about, talking to people like you, Dr. Lisa, I'd like to talk to you more and Chris thinks he's my sponsor now. So, you know, I'll keep asking for his help. But seriously, I can be frivolous.

Chuck (01:01:11.416)
Yeah, okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Ciara (01:01:11.944)
hahaha

Ha ha ha.

Chuck (01:01:20.536)
Yes, yes there is.

Yeah. Yeah.

Ciara (01:01:33.224)
Hehehehe

Ciara (01:01:41.229)
This is so important and to have people like yourself, I mean this from my heart. I've been here 34 years. I've taken every shot in the butt, Chris, every shot, attacked the whole bit, but they can't take away the results in what we do. This is not it for parents. This is not a drop -in center. This is intense work. We go the distance. My job is for that kid to succeed in the front chair and the kid treating the parents so they don't sabotage that and get their own recovery.

put this all together. Now, came to came to believe if I thought 34 years ago that we'd be at 666 grads and over 2000 family members and we've had our tragedies, that's the tough part what you're dealing with today, Dr. Lisa. It is an ugly, uncompromising, punishing disease, but it's a solution. So as we share this message, care came to me about this and said, you gotta go on there and now I'm coming out of my shell, I'll do it again.

Chuck (01:02:40.92)
Okay, okay. Yeah, yeah, what are you grateful for? Okay, thank you. Yes, yes, yes.

Ciara (01:02:41.037)
So what am I grateful for? I got my family, my family, my faith, my family and the people. I got a shark bench. My family are incredible. We started this 34, I get choked 34 years ago, opened our home. We still do. I've had the support. If I don't have the support of my family, I don't make it. So I work my own recovery. I work my own program. And so many things to be grateful for, but I have an opportunity that I think.

Chuck (01:03:05.464)
Yeah.

Ciara (01:03:10.509)
to save another life. And that's what we're talking about here today. That's why we're talking. There's more lives to save guys. So I'm grateful for the opportunity.

Chuck (01:03:12.6)
Yes. Absolutely. Yes, we are. Yes, we are. Okay. Thank you for that. Lisa, what you got for us?

Lisa (01:03:22.982)
So I'm in Vancouver and I got to meet some people in person that I have only previously been able to connect with, you know, online or whatever, and had some really like magical connections with some lovely people yesterday. And yeah, I can't actually really even put it into words, you know, last night when I got home, we texted one another just to say like, thanks for an awesome evening.

And all those three of us together for quite a few hours and we just shared that the connection we felt was almost something I don't think anybody who had not been there would even believe. Like it felt, if you're religious, it felt divine. If you're not religious, it felt magical. But so I'm grateful for those connections right now.

Chuck (01:04:15.32)
Awesome, awesome. Of course, I am grateful for this conversation. This is amazing. I just love what you guys are doing over there. The support, of course, as well as the sponsor and beyond. Our conversation last night really got me thinking about my mother today as I was driving. And I get hurt. It's been a while since I thanked mom. So it's, you know, in my gratitudes, but

She believed in me when nobody did. She helped me through this. She supported me. It almost sounds cliche, but it's so true. As I'm driving along today, I got emotional. I'm just like, wow, what has she done? So I'm so very, very grateful for my mother. I am also grateful to every single person who continues to like, comment, share, listen to, participate, talk about.

What we're doing here, every time you do these things, you're getting me a little bit closer to living my best life. My best life is to continue making a humble living spreading the message, and the message is this. If you're in active addiction right now, today could be the day. Today could be the day that you start a lifelong journey. Reach out to a friend, reach out to a family member, call in the detox, go to a meeting, pray, go to church, I don't care. Do whatever it is you gotta do to get that journey started, because it is so much better than the alternative. And if you have a loved one who's suffering an addiction right now, you're just taking the time to listen to this.

amazing conversation. If you should take one more minute out of your day, text that person, let them know they are loved. Use the words.

Ciara (01:05:48.84)
You are loved.

Lisa (01:05:49.702)
You are love.

Chuck (01:05:52.056)
doctor.

Ciara (01:05:53.133)
We are loved. We are loved. We are loved.

Chuck (01:05:55.)
That little... All together, use the words.

Ciara (01:05:59.272)
You are loved.

Lisa (01:05:59.59)
You are love.

Ciara (01:06:00.269)
Your love.

Chuck (01:06:02.2)
That little glimmer of hope just might be the thing that brings them back.

Ciara (01:06:04.493)
Great meeting you, Dr. Lisa. Thank you.

Chuck (01:06:06.904)
Okay.