193 - KALEIDOSCOPE WEDNESDAY - BOUNDARIES & ENABLING

Chuck LaFLange (00:01.974)
Hello everybody, watchers, listeners, supporters of all kinds. Welcome to the Ash Strawson podcast. Start that over. Hello everybody, watchers, listeners, supporters of all kinds. Welcome to another episode of Kaleidoscope Wednesday Wednesday on the Ashes to Awesome podcast. I'm your host, Chuck LaFlange, and with me in virtual studio halfway around the world, Ryan Bathgate. How you doing today, Ryan?

RBK Kaleidoscope (00:23.229)
Uh, yeah, good, sure. I'm, you know, I don't really like that one. Um, I'm, uh, I know I heard that. I heard that on the ramble. Uh.

Chuck LaFLange (00:29.07)
He got Lisa worried about that now too, by the way, right? Well, you know what? I'll interrupt real quickly because it's very relevant. Mike Miller here at the Yatra. How are you doing today? I'm good. Why? Right? He always asked me why. I was like, I fucking hate it when you do that, man. Right? But it's, you know, he says, well, you know. Yeah. Right? So, yeah. So how are you today? Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope (00:45.381)
Heh heh.

Yeah, well, let's stop using the word good. Oh, I like that, I might have to steal that. Things are... well, you know, it's... My brakes have hit the... What do you call it? The grind strip?

Chuck LaFLange (01:08.622)
Grind strip, you just made that up. I have no idea what you're talking about. Okay, okay, okay. That hit the rotors, your brake pads. Oh, the squealer, the squealer, yes.

RBK Kaleidoscope (01:10.428)
Yeah, my brake pads. My brake pads, my truck.

RBK Kaleidoscope (01:17.692)
Well yeah, so like every time you hit it, it really embarrasses you to get your breaks fixed. More than anything. No, it's a grinder. You can feel it. But, let's turn the music up. We're good. What are you... Nah, it's fine. No, it's...

Chuck LaFLange (01:25.107)
Is it squealing or is it grinding?

Chuck LaFLange (01:32.654)
Dude, that's really bad, right? You know that, right? No, the squealing is fine. The squealing is a reminder. The grinding is, now you're fucked. Now you need new rotors. You need to, it's a big to do, right? So. I'm just gonna take, I'm gonna take a grinder to the rotor and smooth them out. No, you need new rotors. If you're grinding, you need new rotors, right? No, you really do. It's not.

RBK Kaleidoscope (01:44.184)
Nonsense. I'm doing this a lot. Anyway, I have the brake pads in my truck.

RBK Kaleidoscope (01:52.412)
Yeah, yeah. Heh heh. Yeah. No, no, no. I, I know, I know when I need new rollers. I'm not new. Okay? There's no grooves in it.

Chuck LaFLange (02:04.68)
Of course, if it's grinding, there's groups in them.

RBK Kaleidoscope (02:08.696)
There aren't any grooves in it. Is what I'm saying. I know I'm not new here. Grind strip means it's time to change them. I don't have a squealer. I don't even never heard of that.

Chuck LaFLange (02:11.746)
Okay, okay, okay. All right. Okay.

Chuck LaFLange (02:23.714)
That's that little metal strip that makes it squeal before it grinds. Oh, okay, so I guess that's funny. Okay, yeah, it usually squeals first, or in my experience anyway.

RBK Kaleidoscope (02:26.205)
That's what I'm on.

RBK Kaleidoscope (02:30.852)
I actually, I don't even hear it, I feel it in my feet when I hit the pedal. But eventually it turns into awfulness. So yeah, I just need to have a day off so I can change my brakes. I can't fathom paying someone to do that.

Chuck LaFLange (02:35.791)
Ah, okay.

Chuck LaFLange (02:40.158)
Yeah. Anyway. Yeah. Fair enough, eh?

Chuck LaFLange (02:47.682)
That's such an easy job, right?

RBK Kaleidoscope (02:50.084)
Yeah, it is and they didn't want to charge you like 700 bucks and then they find five other things wrong with your car

Chuck LaFLange (02:57.027)
Remember back when you were in the game and you could just trade somebody a little bit of something for that stuff.

RBK Kaleidoscope (02:57.296)
Yeah

RBK Kaleidoscope (03:05.28)
I also had time to do it myself. All the time in the world. I guess I could fit it in before my round of golf and hitting the gym and going to the club. So now I gotta wait until Saturday to do it because that's the next day that I'll have.

Chuck LaFLange (03:15.531)
Yeah. Right, right. But you know.

Chuck LaFLange (03:25.336)
I'm sure you should have some rotors left still by then.

RBK Kaleidoscope (03:28.384)
And if I don't, we'll see how long they last. Life's an adventure. Yeah, so no, yeah, no. Life's great, man. To be honest, I've consistently had worse days in my life. Every day is an alright day, even in my... And then there's no, you know, there's no...

Chuck LaFLange (03:36.539)
Jesus, anyway.

RBK Kaleidoscope (03:55.272)
Such thing is a bad day anymore with the right lens. You know, I go back to the old saying from a friend of mine, he used to always say, you don't learn shit on your good days. And yeah, so even when I do have a challenging day, I mean, you know, work is picked up with some portfolio shifting, and especially around this time of year is a big fundraising season for us. So.

Chuck LaFLange (03:58.26)
Yeah, right.

Chuck LaFLange (04:04.678)
Yeah, there is that. There is that. Yeah, yeah. Right.

Chuck LaFLange (04:18.04)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (04:22.798)
Of course it is, yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope (04:23.416)
But it's been fun and it's also given a lot of staff the opportunity to shine, which is exactly what's happening. So it's always nice to see people that I work closely with be recognized for their skills. So yeah, that's cool. Yeah. You?

Chuck LaFLange (04:44.803)
That's awesome. Yeah. I'm in Thailand, man. I'm in Thailand at the Auditory, I'm great. That's what I am. Every day is great, right? You know what? Touche, touche. You know what, man? Like this morning, I know we got to record early, cause it's early here, I know it's late there. I'm up at like six, I'm in the pool. I'm like doing my laps, I'm stretching out. I'm like, I'm pretty close to ninja status now. I'm just saying, right? Like I'm getting super flexible.

RBK Kaleidoscope (04:51.068)
Why?

RBK Kaleidoscope (05:07.924)
Thank you very much.

Chuck LaFLange (05:09.706)
I'm kind of embracing yoga, where I was really frustrated by the yoga thing for a minute, and then I kind of stepped back from it. So now we are doing, I was doing pool yoga as a way to kind of get into it. I haven't done anything for 10 years physically, like nothing physically for 10 years. Then all of a sudden I'm like doing origami and meditation at the same time with my body. Like it's just nuts. So we eased into it, we got a new yoga, not a new, the original yoga instructor came back.

RBK Kaleidoscope (05:10.568)
Change your name to...

RBK Kaleidoscope (05:24.02)
Mm-hmm.

Chuck LaFLange (05:39.77)
Here's the funny thing about guys. So Justin, who was filling in, wonderful guy. I've told you all about him, right? He's a mindfulness teacher. He's amazing, right? And he's very good at his job. Carrie, who's the full-time instructor here, is a little more gentle in her approach and also very, very good at what she does. So I had that time in the pool to kind of get used to it. And then Carrie comes back from her holidays and Justin's gone. So the combination between the gentle approach and...

the stretching in the pool and all that stuff. It's kind of, okay, you know what? I'm gonna go back to land yoga. And here's the thing about guys. If it wasn't an attractive woman standing up there doing the teaching, I'd probably still be in the pool. Right, but I'm like, I'm too much pride. I'm gonna show her that I'm, you know what I mean? And it's just, it's horrible. And it's not like there's some sort of weird attraction thing going on. It's just immediately attractive woman, okay, now I'm gonna man up, right? Like what the hell is that? Right? You know? Right? You know?

RBK Kaleidoscope (06:20.188)
Hehehe

RBK Kaleidoscope (06:33.772)
I yeah, it's like If you ever want is some I learned the treatment center If you ever want somebody to get something done or something you question their integrity And man will never ever do you know if you say well? Yeah, I guess if you don't have any integrity. Well, I guess you wouldn't do that. They're all I take it. It's already done Yeah, so yeah, it's like it's one of those little

Chuck LaFLange (06:45.662)
Yes, yes, yes.

Chuck LaFLange (06:57.261)
Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.

RBK Kaleidoscope (07:01.664)
social tapestry hacks. Challenge a man's integrity if you want something done.

Chuck LaFLange (07:04.17)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, you mentioned that once before in a thing. And the same idea here most certainly, right? But all in all, the experience is wonderful. I was telling you off air about the experience I had on this big, giant canoe on crack, I call it, the long tail boat trying to get in. Turned into an elephant seal rolling over the side of a boat, it was quite humiliating at the time. Everyone there handled it with a lot of class, and it wasn't until I started going into a comedic rant about it that everyone let out the laughter. That was no doubt being pent up inside.

RBK Kaleidoscope (07:19.26)
No.

Chuck LaFLange (07:32.226)
So, which I appreciate it, you know, right? You know, so yeah. I called the captain something, but it wasn't AHAP. I could tell you that. Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope (07:36.471)
Did you call the captain Ahab after that?

RBK Kaleidoscope (07:41.916)
That's a, uh, let's say a literary joke.

Chuck LaFLange (07:47.614)
Yes, yes, from Moby Dick. Yeah, yeah, right, right. Yeah, yeah, I'm not completely unlearned, right? So, yeah. Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope (07:49.712)
Yeah, kwee kweeg.

RBK Kaleidoscope (07:54.768)
Wow. I mean, I don't know many, many people that are into Melville these days.

Chuck LaFLange (07:59.934)
I've never read Moby Dick, I just happened to know that Ahab was the captain. So, yeah, I've heard, I've heard it's got, it's metaphoric to all sorts of things in life. And right. So, yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope (08:02.86)
Oh, okay. Great book. If you ever get the chance.

RBK Kaleidoscope (08:10.2)
Yeah, you know, it's funny, like, I was watching a movie, I don't know, I watched a bunch this weekend, and I was like, man, so many movies are based off of the Canterbury Tales. You have a bunch of people that gather together, each one represents something, and the irony is that the thief is actually the most honest guy. Like, you know, Canterbury Tales, they all, you know, Canterbury Tales.

Chuck LaFLange (08:21.693)
Oh

Chuck LaFLange (08:34.706)
No, I don't have a clue what you're talking about right now.

RBK Kaleidoscope (08:36.676)
Seven Deadly Sins, it's based on each character. They do a pilgrimage to Jerusalem from England and in the 1500s, and each person in the pilgrimage represents a sin, and they have the thief. And the thief is the guy that's the most honest, whereas like, you know, the doctor is super selfish, or one of them's greedy, or one of them's, you know, am I gonna name a sloth? And the, I don't think I could name all seven of them.

Chuck LaFLange (08:44.951)
Okay.

Chuck LaFLange (08:49.666)
Thank you.

Chuck LaFLange (09:01.919)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope (09:07.26)
I'm not even...

Chuck LaFLange (09:07.367)
Sloth envy gluttony.

RBK Kaleidoscope (09:10.516)
Agreed.

Chuck LaFLange (09:11.758)
Greed. Shit. You know what, my reference is all coming from that seven movie, right? Just trying to think of it different ways they died, but. Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope (09:15.654)
Love it.

Yeah, yeah. And that movie, that's, Kennerberry Tales is in that movie. They read that book to find the killer.

Chuck LaFLange (09:25.55)
Oh, okay. Okay. Well, I'm not like you that way. I don't remember details about these things, right? So yeah, but There you go, there you go, right? So

RBK Kaleidoscope (09:30.236)
I read it in grade 11. It was a good book. Sloth, envy, greed, pride, gluttony.

Chuck LaFLange (09:46.996)
We got nothing.

RBK Kaleidoscope (09:47.224)
And this is the one where he finds the head.

Chuck LaFLange (09:49.79)
Yeah. The very end, right? Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope (09:53.368)
Yeah, there's the lawyer, there's the guy that he eats to death. What about the guy that he like keeps alive enough to still decompose?

Chuck LaFLange (10:05.522)
I do remember that quite vividly, and I can't remember what sin that was. Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope (10:08.958)
Okay, okay, here we go. It's 2023.

And in 2023, we have the Google machine.

Chuck LaFLange (10:22.046)
Yes, we do. End of the bar room argument. That's what Google was. End of the bar room argument, yeah. Remember back in the day when like, you'd have to wake up a buddy at three o'clock in the morning to decide who got the most points in 2018? Right? So we're gonna call Ryan, we're gonna call Ryan. And whatever Ryan says, that's gonna be the answer. So we can stop arguing about this. And then you would say something different and then we'd have to go to the parking lot and fight it out and then buy each other a beer. And then it was just, yeah. There's a whole generation of people that just don't get that.

RBK Kaleidoscope (10:25.411)
Yes.

RBK Kaleidoscope (10:37.547)
Yeah, yeah, he knows

RBK Kaleidoscope (10:43.035)
Alright.

Yeah, bike racks.

RBK Kaleidoscope (10:51.444)
Okay, you ready for this? Listeners, I know you've been waiting at the end of your seat. Lust, gluttony, greed, sloth, wrath, and envy. Oh, and pride. And pride, of course. Pride is one that I've always struggled with because being proud of something is like, you know, according to Henry Tales, it's a sin. Actually, according to the Bible, but I don't know anything about that.

Chuck LaFLange (10:56.306)
Yes, yes. Baited breath.

Chuck LaFLange (11:01.922)
Wrath, wrath and pride, you said pride already. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (11:10.769)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (11:21.11)
Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope (11:21.156)
So, and then I used to have this guy who I would argue with all the time. He's like, well, if you replace I'm proud of with I'm grateful for, it becomes a completely different thing, yet you're saying the same thing. And so I was like, yeah, okay, that makes sense.

Chuck LaFLange (11:32.394)
Yeah, so that's funny that you say that right now, because I made a reel and I know you don't really get much of a chance to watch some of my short form content that I put out. It was actually coming back from that excursion with the canoe on crack, that the stuff had really occurred to me. And it's something you had also said occurred to me around the same time about if we treated ourselves like we treat our best friend, right? So your friend makes a mistake, you give him room for that mistake. Your friend does something awesome.

RBK Kaleidoscope (12:00.466)
Mm-hmm.

Chuck LaFLange (12:01.598)
You give them credit for that. We don't do that for ourselves. We never do, right? And then I got to thinking about how a year ago, I wouldn't get on a bus with 30 people on it, right? Terrified. I would turn around and get off. The trauma, I was so trombed out, I call, you know, PTSD, all that. I was a fucking mess as a human being. As a train wreck. A month or three weeks ago now, I got on a goddamn plane with 400 people to fly halfway around the world.

RBK Kaleidoscope (12:02.992)
Mm-hmm. Oh.

Chuck LaFLange (12:29.282)
to live in a place I don't really know anybody to, in a life I have no idea what comes next. And I just, I took a moment to myself, I said like, I'm really proud of myself for doing that, right? And then, and it keeps coming buddy, it keeps, there's all sorts of Ryanisms in this one. So, and then I'm thinking about how recovery is a deficit term, as you've said in the show multiple times. And it's like, you know what man, no, like this is, and I can, I still will use the word recovery because a lot of us are recovering from something.

RBK Kaleidoscope (12:39.508)
So that's.

RBK Kaleidoscope (12:58.844)
Honestly, I do too because I don't have a better word. Yeah, I just don't like it. That's all.

Chuck LaFLange (12:58.902)
But, you know, right? Well said. Well said, well said. And I was like, this is like, this isn't really, this is me like working on the next unwritten chapter in a story where anything's possible. And again, this is, these are your words, right? That are really resonating with me. And then I said all of this in the short form too, right? In the real. So then.

Chuck LaFLange (13:24.182)
Yeah, I don't remember what the fuck I was gonna say. Oh, and lastly the last bit of that was if a broken version of me With the support of so many people can do what we've done already and we've done something Right. We've done something that we know we have we'll get that we get the messages we get, you know But the feedback all those things What can a healed version of me do with all of this tribe with all my people? Right, and it's amazing when you stop and think about that how many people we can help

So recover? What the fuck am I recovering from? Yeah, right, you know

RBK Kaleidoscope (13:57.48)
They're adding to what already exists. Also, I have to, I can't let this go. None of us are broken. Variations of hurt. Nobody is broken. And I don't like when people reference themselves as broken because they're not.

Chuck LaFLange (14:04.82)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (14:10.294)
Yeah, fair enough.

Chuck LaFLange (14:16.534)
It felt broken. It felt really broken there for a while.

RBK Kaleidoscope (14:18.772)
Sure. But, but we are all, it's a Gestalt. We are, we are a Gestalt. We are complete. We're always complete and we add to what already exists.

Chuck LaFLange (14:31.174)
Yeah, right. So it's pretty amazing though, man. Yeah. Right. So, yeah. Mm hmm. So I really did. I really did. Right. Like it was just a holy shit, man. That's a lot of right isms in one thought. Well, never, okay. ADHD. I never have a thought. Right. Exactly. That somehow blend into one. Sometimes it makes sense. Sometimes.

RBK Kaleidoscope (14:32.76)
So yeah, well that's cool. That's cool. I like that.

I like that you thought of me. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

RBK Kaleidoscope (14:50.004)
What, like, 65 rapid fire thoughts? Where's my keys?

Chuck LaFLange (14:56.898)
Sometimes we're talking about using stolen copper to crochet, right? Like that, shit you know, that one came up recently as well. So, right, right? So, yeah. Yeah. Anyway, anyway. Yeah. So, hey, this week we were gonna talk about boundaries and enabling and the difference in there, you know.

RBK Kaleidoscope (15:06.307)
Oh man. Anyway, yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope (15:18.084)
Yes, yeah, and so that had come up because of that ramble with Jason.

Chuck LaFLange (15:25.642)
Well, you know what? It came up again in this last weekend's Ramble. I don't think you've had a chance to listen to it. Angie with Far Canon, Families for Addiction Recovery.

RBK Kaleidoscope (15:28.793)
haven't no, um...

RBK Kaleidoscope (15:34.458)
Okay.

Chuck LaFLange (15:35.934)
One of the fundamentals, one of the very first things they do when they're helping families navigate those waters is to help the family understand that to the person who is suffering, their actions make sense. What they're doing is actually, and you can absolutely resonate with this because you've said a dozen things to that effect, right? Where it's helping the family to understand what that person is doing makes sense, right? They're coping with this or they're coping with that. And so if you can help a family to understand that.

RBK Kaleidoscope (15:51.84)
Post-structuralism.

RBK Kaleidoscope (15:58.01)
Mm-hmm.

Chuck LaFLange (16:03.554)
then the whole process just becomes a little easier to accept and to navigate.

RBK Kaleidoscope (16:08.164)
Yeah, but I mean, in order to, like, this is why the Boundaries piece is so important, because we have to know where we stand. Like, and I mean, literally, I have to know where I'm standing in order to make any movements. You know what I mean? So I need to know who I am. And Boundaries is just, to me, it's such a simple yet powerful premise.

I understand boundaries really simply as this is where I end and you begin.

Chuck LaFLange (16:43.702)
Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope (16:44.804)
And so, you know, what happens when we cross someone's boundary is we are now in their, where they are, and imposing ourselves over top of their existence. And that's a crossing of boundaries. Think about boundaries, though, it's like, it is directly correlated to the development of intrinsic resource. When we set a boundary,

Chuck LaFLange (17:01.23)
Okay.

RBK Kaleidoscope (17:12.472)
There's a space between our boundary and our being. And in that space, we grow and fill. That's the self-esteem, self-worth, self-respect. And so a boundary is really a statement of existence.

Chuck LaFLange (17:16.397)
Okay.

Chuck LaFLange (17:28.178)
Okay. Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope (17:31.588)
You know, people with poor boundaries, they negotiate self-worth. That's what happens when we start muddying the lines, is we start negotiating our intrinsic resources. I will say adamantly, self-worth is never on the table for negotiation, ever. And yet how often do we do that? And you know, and I think, so the practical application, you know, like, you know, if you don't do this,

I'm never going to speak to you again. I'm going to kick you out of the house. Whatever. If you do this, you know what I mean? We do these things where we paint ourselves into a corner. And I always say, no, big mistake. Putting a definite on something is awful. Because all you're doing is, invariably, whoever it is that's in the throes of tendencies, addiction tendencies, can say all the things they want. But it's limbic.

Chuck LaFLange (18:07.87)
Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope (18:31.18)
and nervous system. It's limbic. It's the emotion memory part of our brain. It is the... Here, for listeners, watchers, viewers, sorry, I'm making a fist here. And this is the brain. So we have the oldest part of our brain being the stem or modulla mogata or central nervous system. So that's basically reptilian, I guess would be the other term. In here, we have the limbic system.

Chuck LaFLange (18:32.031)
limbic.

RBK Kaleidoscope (18:59.752)
That's the second oldest part of our brain or the middle, I guess, the middle child. And that's motion memory. And that connects to the cerebral cortex, which is the newest part of our brain. And that's this stuff here. And so when we are in fight or flight response, when our cortisol levels are high or we're in a state of survival mode, we have limited access to the cerebral cortex. Cerebral cortex is where we have rational decisions, we have reason, our identity, our personality, our flair.

all exists in that. So when we get, when we're lost in addiction, we're essentially working out of limbic and central or reptilian part of our brain. That's why, you know, when people find, um, you know, a healing process with that, they start to feel alive again. Well, that's what they do. They start to feel themselves. You should see the personality coming, that glimmer in their eye, you know, that glimmer in their eyes access to the parts of their brain they need to have identity, which is, you know, creative and all that.

right hemisphere stuff. And so, people aren't looking to stomp on your boundaries. That's not what people that are, you know, family members are trying to do. And they're not even trying to hurt you. The fact that your hurt even works against the process because now shame settles in and I'm not enough and I don't deserve comes in, right? And then that just reinforces the need to cope, which puts us back in a state of fight or fight.

and then we're back into the throws and it's gonna happen all over again. So I say like, for me, it's never a good idea to make definites. Now there is, having said that, I believe it's important to know when to love from afar. I think that that's what boundaries are about. It's that I don't love you any less. It's just that I'm out of capacity. I don't have any more room left and I need space from this madness. And that is an acceptable...

Chuck LaFLange (20:27.062)
Yep. Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope (20:56.709)
uh... thing to do it, you know what I mean? Right. It's...

Chuck LaFLange (20:56.782)
100%. You have every right to protect you with yours, right? Every right, right? On any level, psychologically, mentally, and you know, all of that stuff, emotionally.

RBK Kaleidoscope (21:05.992)
So what happens though when you set a boundary that is, it's like you set a boundary that pushes the person against the wall. The only way that person can move is to break that boundary, which invariably is going to happen. So what do we negotiate now? Now we're in a spot where we either have to act out on the thing that we promised we would do, which we really don't want to do, and we know is not the best thing. So or we.

sacrifice our intrinsic resources, our self-worth, our self-esteem, our self-respect. We give that away and now we're Mark. So now we know that there aren't any boundaries, that this person is not standing where they stand, you know, and they can be pushed around. And again, it's still not out of malice. It's just like, okay, well, now I have an easier avenue to get to what I want. This person now stands as...

Chuck LaFLange (21:51.306)
Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope (22:03.504)
somebody who is going to help me get my, whatever it is I need to cope with, whatever I haven't dealt with. And so, and now we have entered into the position of an enabler. And so, you know what I mean? And it happens that quick. So, you know, boundaries are, I think they need to be manageable. I will not stand to be talked to a certain way. I will not stand to be treated a certain way. And I'm not even expressing.

Chuck LaFLange (22:10.924)
Yeah, right.

Chuck LaFLange (22:17.118)
Yeah, yeah, it does.

Chuck LaFLange (22:31.265)
Mm-hmm.

RBK Kaleidoscope (22:32.808)
consequences other than in my power I control my effort, my commitment, my environment, my perception. So in this case this might be an environment thing where I'm gonna control my environment by not being in yours. You know what I mean? And that doesn't mean... and you know, for me I articulate with honesty and transparency. I am stepping back from this and this is why.

Chuck LaFLange (22:46.902)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I do.

RBK Kaleidoscope (23:02.48)
I have no more capacity for this. This is starting to cost me the things that I need to be able to feel fulfilled in my life and I'm going to have to take some time to heal with that before I can return to trying to help the situation. In the meantime, I hope you understand that these actions have consequences and some of those consequences are difficult. You know, but the consequence and any other things like...

Chuck LaFLange (23:27.53)
Yeah, yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope (23:33.36)
Often the consequences that we impose are nothing in comparison to the consequences of the world. Because we still have love there. And if you look at the organic world, there's love, but there's also a harshness to it. You know, like, I don't know, animals eat animals, animals eat babies, eat eggs.

Chuck LaFLange (23:42.968)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (23:52.438)
Yep, yep, yep.

RBK Kaleidoscope (23:59.94)
You know, like, there's some really harsh things out in the world. So like, it's kind of like the hard part is like now I'm exposing my loved one to the cold, harsh reality of the world without me there. And that's a difficult place to be. But if we're negotiating our self-worth, we're useless to that individual because now we're just becoming part of that cold, hard world by being an enabler. And enabling is not love.

Chuck LaFLange (24:23.178)
Yes, yeah. No, no, no. And it's such a balance there. I feel for every single family member, every single loved one out there, like that's what a difficult place to navigate, what a difficult thing to have to deal with, right? So, and for me, I get those messages, as you know, I get them often. My advice is always the same, that you are loved. And this is important, this is really important. When you're...

RBK Kaleidoscope (24:26.833)
No.

RBK Kaleidoscope (24:32.34)
Mm-hmm.

Chuck LaFLange (24:51.842)
Your boundaries and all of that have to be respected.

Assuming your loved one knows they're loved, I think is probably the most common mistake in my limited though very lived experience, right? They don't. When someone's in the throws of active addiction, that's what they know. They know active addiction, right? And to assume they know they're loved and to assume they know that they can come back to you is not generally speaking, correct, right?

RBK Kaleidoscope (24:58.801)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

RBK Kaleidoscope (25:11.729)
Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope (25:18.524)
So I would say if you're gonna assume that they're loved, you should also assume that they don't feel like they deserve that love.

Chuck LaFLange (25:27.05)
Right, right, you know, 100% that's what happens, right? And those wrong misconceptions on my part in active addiction, and I said this a million times, were the food on my neck, right? For a very, very long time, until my mom shifted things and started to make sure I knew I was loved. And for me, that was the beginning of the end of the chaos. Right, you know, like.

RBK Kaleidoscope (25:28.388)
And that, because that's what happens. It's like, there's no way this person could love me after I've done this. You know, yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope (25:38.86)
Mm-hmm.

RBK Kaleidoscope (25:45.348)
Mm-hmm.

RBK Kaleidoscope (25:48.856)
Yeah, you know, love just love also means not alone.

Chuck LaFLange (25:54.25)
Yeah. Right.

RBK Kaleidoscope (25:55.988)
And to me, addiction is isolation.

Chuck LaFLange (26:01.542)
100%, man, 100%. You can party it up with your buddies for a minute, but by the time addiction, the chaos starts to take control of your life, man. That is a lonely, lonely place to be, right?

RBK Kaleidoscope (26:03.685)
And so...

RBK Kaleidoscope (26:13.012)
if you're in the state of character, the character of addiction, the party's been over a long time. Let's be honest. You know, yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, you know, I haven't said that. I think, I think it's, it's what's important. Okay. How do we, let's just say, how do we, how do we use boundaries effectively?

Chuck LaFLange (26:17.214)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, right, right. And in today's world more so than ever, right, with, you know, where these drugs are.

RBK Kaleidoscope (26:38.992)
So now we understand a boundary is, and like I said, I keep things simple. This is where I ended you begin. That makes me, it reminds me of what the boundary is. So to allow someone to cross my boundary and not stand behind that or uphold that boundary is to negotiate my self-worth. Once my self-worth is depleted, now I'm in a state of coping as well. How do I cope? This is where.

Chuck LaFLange (26:48.782)
Hmm.

RBK Kaleidoscope (27:07.044)
That other side comes in and we see the enabling tendencies come in so it's it turns into a black Well, well, so it turns into a black or white thing Which is you know, you're either and you become an enabler or it's a complete shutout You know, like I'm it would be the old-school way like

Chuck LaFLange (27:12.854)
and the codependency and that, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (27:29.29)
Yeah, which we, I don't need to get into how I feel about that. I think that's well known by now. You know? Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope (27:30.8)
Yeah, well, yeah, I think so. But I mean, this is where the terms like junkie come in. I think people use that as a way to cope themselves. And so when we become an enabler, really what we're doing is we have devastated our intrinsic resources to the point of, like you said, codependency. Codependency is a lack of self-worth.

Chuck LaFLange (27:39.606)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (27:44.433)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (28:01.398)
Yeah, 100% right.

RBK Kaleidoscope (28:01.524)
and the idea that I need an extrinsic source to supplement my intrinsic loss. If that makes sense to you, yeah, okay. So, a boundary is very simply an act of love. If you're using a boundary correctly, or who might say what's correct, if you're using one effectively, you are still...

Chuck LaFLange (28:08.202)
Yeah. That makes perfect sense.

RBK Kaleidoscope (28:27.22)
in the realm of loving another human being, doing everything you can, including standing up for yourself and making sure that you are in a state that is fit to be of support for that individual. And when we set a boundary that can't possibly be upheld, we are essentially writing an enabler ticket. You're either looking at enabling or cutting out. And I don't think either of those are an answer. Both of those end up in isolation.

Chuck LaFLange (28:39.447)
Mm-hmm.

Chuck LaFLange (28:48.542)
Yeah, yeah. And neither one of those is good. Yeah, yeah, right, right.

RBK Kaleidoscope (28:56.968)
And it's like two lonely people together. That's codependency You know what I mean? So so The other I get in the other way the other way is that love and support model So if I'm able to uphold my boundary and I set those boundaries and so it's you know, it looks like I'm willing to you know I'll Help you get a resume. I'll find it. I'll help you get into treatment. I'll help you get to detox

Chuck LaFLange (29:00.938)
Yeah. Right.

RBK Kaleidoscope (29:23.9)
I will make sure that you have food if you need that. But however, I will not be giving you money. Or, but you know, like, dude, I've given money before to people that are dope sick, and I didn't feel like an enabler, and still don't. And I know how shitty it is. Like, and it is suffering, and it's like.

Chuck LaFLange (29:32.97)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (29:41.974)
No, sometimes you're just helping a person avoid another minute of suffering, right? Yeah, you know, right. And here's the thing. When I was in Regina, I gave like 40 of my last $60 to my friend Jess, right, so that she could she could so she could cop but so she could pick up, right? And enabling No, it's not because here's the thing, if I didn't help her, she's still like she's gonna you know what, I'll be blunt, just one more dick, she's got to suck. Good, and she's gonna

That's the reality of that. She's gonna go out and she's gonna do what she has to do to score. So I just gave her a break from that for a minute. If I consistently give her money, if she's calling and asking me for it, then I turn into an abler. But I just tell somebody to avoid another day of hell, that's all, or another half a day of hell, really. You know what I mean? That's all that was, but you know.

RBK Kaleidoscope (30:27.908)
Yeah, you got some kind of weird sound going on in the back there.

Chuck LaFLange (30:33.631)
Is it still going on?

RBK Kaleidoscope (30:35.333)
Nah, it's not there now.

Chuck LaFLange (30:36.894)
Yeah, it's because I touched the boom on the microphone here. So it's like, yeah, yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope (30:40.328)
Oh, yeah. OK. Yeah, and that's just it. And so I think that, you know, Brene Brown says, clear is kind. So being clear, being articulate, and transparent, I think is a different, an unusual sense of kindness for most in saying that upholding your boundary is an act of kindness. Even though there are

Chuck LaFLange (30:49.932)
Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope (31:05.7)
The reaction typically is not taken that way, but it's because it's a threat to the existence of the lonely addict, you know, pardon the stigma. But yeah, like anytime that that's threatened, you're gonna have an animalistic reaction, like a hungry dog protecting his last morsel. Like that's what that addiction looks like. And so I would say, this is a really good place to practice.

Chuck LaFLange (31:14.314)
100% yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (31:26.602)
Yeah, 100%. Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope (31:35.516)
take nothing personal unless it ends in I love you or thank you. And that's a really good place to learn that. Because you're going to set a boundary, and they're not going to like it because they're not going to benefit from it. From the optics, they're not going to. But ultimately, there is benefit. And I think your mom's a really good example of that because look at how you see her now. Look at how you.

Chuck LaFLange (31:40.266)
Yeah, I like that one. I love that one. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (31:50.14)
Yeah. We know that there's absolutely going to benefit.

Chuck LaFLange (32:02.954)
Yeah, right.

RBK Kaleidoscope (32:03.948)
how you think of her now and she held firm boundaries and didn't confuse a boundary with an attack.

Chuck LaFLange (32:14.326)
Which by the way, by the way, by the time you're all listening to this, it's mom's birthday. Yeah, so yeah, Wednesday the 22nd, yeah, it's mom's birthday, so yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope (32:20.156)
Well, when's that?

RBK Kaleidoscope (32:25.332)
So it's already your birthday in your world.

Chuck LaFLange (32:28.266)
In my world it is, yes it is. Yeah. So happy birthday, mom, if you happen to listen to this on the same day, she, it'll probably take her a month before she gets to this one, but she does listen to them all, sometimes she just has to, you know, she gets around to them. So, yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. So.

RBK Kaleidoscope (32:38.716)
Well then I'll say happy belated. Yeah, so like, you know, boundaries and what's the opposite of enabling? Support.

Chuck LaFLange (32:53.27)
You have support, oh, there you go, right, right. And to focus in on a couple, like, you know, devils in the details, feeding your loved one, and I don't give a shit what they spent their money on, I just don't, in my mind, it's never going to be enabling them. You're just feeding a person, right? And it's something that comes up often in the Facebook groups, where I have to, you know, quite often I have to take a breath and just not engage, because some people, it's a feeding frenzy sometimes, right, when you get into.

RBK Kaleidoscope (32:55.696)
Yeah, like so a boundary is support.

RBK Kaleidoscope (33:08.412)
Why even ask?

RBK Kaleidoscope (33:21.594)
Mm-hmm.

Chuck LaFLange (33:22.466)
to groups that are, you know, for family members and that. But if you're feeding somebody who is hungry, you are just feeding somebody who's hungry. Why does it have to, you know, right? I know they spent their money on dope, but they're hungry, so feed them, right? It's like, it's just like, you know, yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope (33:34.478)
in.

Um, compulsive drug users use drugs. What'd you expect? You know what I mean? That's the old scorpion and the frog, man. Like, like I, yeah, for me, yeah, you have an addiction to a drug. I expected that you did what you did good to get that drug. Like, I'm not taking that personal.

Chuck LaFLange (33:44.182)
Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (33:51.587)
Right.

Chuck LaFLange (34:01.738)
Yeah. No, no, of course not. Right?

RBK Kaleidoscope (34:04.176)
You know what I mean? If I gave you 20 bucks and you said you're gonna get cheeseburgers with it and you didn't, why did you think they were gonna get it? Like, come on!

And why don't we just take away the need to lie? Because that lie reinforces their own shitty feelings about themselves, about lying to their loved ones.

Chuck LaFLange (34:13.519)
Yeah, right.

Chuck LaFLange (34:18.732)
Mmm.

Absolutely. In my new found sobriety and clarity and a lot of the things that I've learned here recording with you, Ryan, and I've said a couple of times, you don't need to lie to me, just don't. It's pointless. I'm not gonna believe you when you do anyway. I'm not gonna judge you when you tell me the truth. So just don't. What's the fuck, like just don't, right? You know, right? Like...

RBK Kaleidoscope (34:33.009)
Yeah?

RBK Kaleidoscope (34:38.832)
But furthermore, expect a magic to happen when you stop lying. You know, because something transforms. There's a paradigm shift when we realize that we don't have to anymore. When you know, and that is literally fighting the stigma. And so creating a transparency, I think is so important. It was like, you know, we had a...

Chuck LaFLange (34:46.294)
Yeah, yeah, right, right.

Chuck LaFLange (34:53.959)
Absolutely.

Chuck LaFLange (34:59.478)
Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope (35:05.652)
treatment center and we introduced a women's program that used to be all men's and it was like, oh, what are we going to do? They're going to start sleeping with each other. Yeah, pretty much everywhere in the world you put men and women together, that's going to happen. And so my thing was like, why don't we take away the need to lie and impose a trajectory of learning how to have healthy relationships? Why don't we take it as an opportunity to teach something instead of having...

Chuck LaFLange (35:19.162)
Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope (35:35.7)
creating a reason for them to be dishonest. You know, like, I just don't understand. And so like when it comes to like, the whole addiction thing is like, you know, like, let's just get it all on the table. Whether I like the answers or not is irrelevant. You know, whatever they're putting on the table in that honesty is the way I feel about it. What does that matter compared to the way I've been feeling about watching my loved one?

Chuck LaFLange (35:39.254)
Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope (36:06.12)
die slowly. You know, and I always say like, nothing is going to hurt me more than I've been hurt. So why do we keep thinking we're going to get hurt more? Why do we think that record is going to be broken every time?

Chuck LaFLange (36:15.998)
Absolutely. Well, you know what? Conversation with somebody from back home, I say back home, from Regina, it makes me nuts when they don't answer the text messages, when they don't, you know, everybody with a loved one in addiction knows. Hate that feeling, you know? So when I left Regina, one of the last things I said to her is you have to promise me to just answer. I'm not gonna judge you, I'm not nothing. I just wanna know you're okay. I'm not gonna try and push you in any direction.

RBK Kaleidoscope (36:31.988)
Yeah. Bye.

Chuck LaFLange (36:44.982)
just please answer the text so that I know you're okay. And what's done for our relationship, and it's just a friend, right? What has done for our relationship since leaving has been phenomenal. There's a degree of honesty there. And okay, I know she's using, but I know she's alive, and that's a hell of a lot better than wondering about both, right? You know, right?

RBK Kaleidoscope (36:55.74)
Yeah, and... Now who-

RBK Kaleidoscope (37:04.188)
goes deeper than that, Chaka. I mean, think about how you, who you are to her transforms. You go from enemy to trusted support. Who do you think she's gonna go to when she's ready and wants help? First call, it's gonna be the person that she trusts and doesn't have to lie to her, doesn't feel judged. You know what I mean? And that's why we set those boundaries, because we become a boundary is an access to the value of integrity.

Chuck LaFLange (37:13.474)
Right?

Chuck LaFLange (37:18.806)
Damn straight.

Chuck LaFLange (37:24.426)
Yeah. Right.

RBK Kaleidoscope (37:34.032)
And once we become integral beings to somebody else, in a safe place, they don't have to be alone anymore. And once they don't feel alone anymore, they're gonna want more for their life. You know what I mean? And so, yeah, like I, so with the boundary I say, think about the boundary you're setting. Is it manageable? Is it realistic? And is it, can it become?

Chuck LaFLange (37:34.658)
Mm-hmm.

Chuck LaFLange (37:45.226)
Yep. Yeah, right, right.

RBK Kaleidoscope (38:01.304)
an avenue to create a stronger relationship, i.e. transparency. So I will not judge you, but I'm going to need you to be honest. That's a boundary. And a realistic one. And I would even give room for that person to get used to it. Because their entire life and the social tapestry and all of the programming and every fucking commercial we've ever seen has always told us how to live and how to be and if you're not this way then you're defective.

Chuck LaFLange (38:05.782)
Yeah, 100%.

Chuck LaFLange (38:12.726)
Yeah, yeah, right.

RBK Kaleidoscope (38:30.66)
And that is shame. And so I would think this boundary, I'm going to set this boundary, this boundary is very simple. I'm going to articulate clearly. I'm going to hold kindness in my heart while I do it. And I'm not going to take anything personal.

Chuck LaFLange (38:33.696)
100% to this.

Chuck LaFLange (38:48.714)
Yep. All set, man.

RBK Kaleidoscope (38:49.372)
You've now established a safe avenue for somebody, when they're ready, to confide in. Because how many times have people been ready with nowhere to go? Because their families have shut them out. They, you know, they think I'm nothing but a liar. They think I'm nothing but an a-

Chuck LaFLange (38:54.955)
Yes.

Chuck LaFLange (39:03.722)
Yeah. You cannot use the words, you are loved too often. You can't, right? No, right. And just circling back to what I said in the beginning here, it's a very common thing for people to think that person knows they're loved. And I hear it every, well, they know, do they? Do they? And is, are you going to hurt anything by letting them know again today and again tomorrow? Right? You're not going to hurt a damn thing by telling them that you cannot do it too much. You know,

RBK Kaleidoscope (39:08.784)
No, nah, you can't, no. There's no, there's no limit.

RBK Kaleidoscope (39:26.556)
What? Yeah. Quite the contrary. Think about it. You're a smart guy, right?

Chuck LaFLange (39:34.57)
I like to think so.

RBK Kaleidoscope (39:36.084)
Okay, so do you feel like you have to prove that?

Chuck LaFLange (39:41.738)
Well, often. Right? Yeah. It's great. Right? Of course it is.

RBK Kaleidoscope (39:44.846)
How does it feel though when somebody says that?

nice to be well I know I'm a smart guy but I need to hear sometimes you know what I mean

Chuck LaFLange (39:54.162)
Yeah, yeah, right, right. Yeah, validation, I mean, we all need it, right? You know, right? And when you're wondering if you're lovable, nevermind loved, right? You need that validated in a big way.

RBK Kaleidoscope (39:57.937)
Right?

RBK Kaleidoscope (40:05.572)
And I think that's an interesting one because that becomes an emergence process that is really cool. The day you look in the mirror and realize that you've achieved that, it's a big day in your life.

Chuck LaFLange (40:21.038)
Damn straight it is. Damn straight, you know? Yeah. You did. Ha ha ha. It's something that just recently has been like, fuck man, right? It's like, you know, we're doing some stuff and it feels pretty great. It does, it does, you know. Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope (40:24.496)
Oh, got you with that one. Ha! Ha ha ha!

RBK Kaleidoscope (40:35.122)
Yeah, I know.

RBK Kaleidoscope (40:39.932)
Well, look at the, I mean, you know, you're carrying yourself through, you look healthy, you know what I mean? Like it's just, it's all different. And I've also noticed, and you, now you're going to prove my point here. How's your vocabulary these days? Ha ha. You're lexical. As I was listening, I was listening to one of the shows and you started using some words and I'm like.

Chuck LaFLange (40:45.418)
Yeah, thank you. Yeah, yeah, right. Hmm.

Chuck LaFLange (40:57.381)
My lexicon has improved exponentially.

Chuck LaFLange (41:08.682)
Hahaha

RBK Kaleidoscope (41:08.732)
This is why I refuse to dumb things down. Because everybody, yeah well, everyone has capacity for understanding and knowledge and I think it's a disservice. Personally, I think it's a disservice. I want people to ask questions. I want people to say, what does that mean? Because as soon as they get an answer, now they, yeah, and that's, and that battle between you and I will go on until the end of time.

Chuck LaFLange (41:13.295)
Oh fuck, we're gonna have this argument again, army. Of course I do, of course I do, right? But, you know, yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (41:27.39)
Yeah, yeah, right. There's a balance with making it connectable though, too, right? We're relatable, so you can keep them around long enough to learn it, right? You know? It's a dynamic that seems to, you know, it's starting to pay the bills slowly but surely. So, yeah. Just waiting for a week. He's going to give me, he's going to give me the opening. I'm going to be there. I'm going to be ready for this one.

RBK Kaleidoscope (41:38.514)
Hahaha

RBK Kaleidoscope (41:43.248)
Well, I couldn't wait to throw that in your face. That's all I'm saying. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. Ha ha. For weeks, oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. I got a sticky note here somewhere. Ha ha ha. Oh, that's funny. So yeah. We're, yeah, we might wanna, I think we're only gonna get two in. Maybe, maybe three. Maybe three.

Chuck LaFLange (41:58.987)
Yeah, yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (42:04.81)
I think so too, I think so too, right? So, yeah, let's jump into the mailbag. I'm gonna try playing this thing. If not, I'll have to edit it in After the Facts. Yeah, still not gonna work. Okay. So it doesn't seem to be, oh, might be onto it here now. Live, play.

RBK Kaleidoscope (42:12.753)
Am I gonna hear it?

Chuck LaFLange (42:22.102)
Just not gonna do it for me. Oh, oh. Ah, it's gonna work, it's gonna work, it's gonna work. It's not gonna work, I lied.

RBK Kaleidoscope (42:30.43)
So that old thing between expectations and disappointment just sit in.

Chuck LaFLange (42:30.538)
I don't know why it's not gonna work. Yeah, I'll have to send it over to you. Anyway, yeah, so the Black Ash Radio, we have, I mean, you know what, I'm not even gonna say, tune into the Facebook, you're gonna see who's coming up here once I put the ad together, but we've got a giant content creator, recovery content creator coming on board for this Black Ash Radio on Friday night, 7 p.m. 7 p.m. Eastern Standard Time, or Pacific Standard Time, 9 p.m. Eastern Standard Time, so it's gonna be epic, it's gonna be awesome. By far the biggest person that I've worked with yet, right?

RBK Kaleidoscope (42:48.976)
Very cool.

RBK Kaleidoscope (42:56.644)
No.

You messed that up.

Chuck LaFLange (43:00.702)
Oh, did I? 7 p.m. Pacific Standard Time, 9 p.m. Oh, there's three hours. Okay, so yeah, that. Shit, now I gotta redo that commercial anyway. Okay, so anyway.

RBK Kaleidoscope (43:02.672)
Pacific is 10 p.m. Eastern.

RBK Kaleidoscope (43:07.924)
Three hours from Pacific to Eastern.

RBK Kaleidoscope (43:13.48)
Hahaha! Yeah, yeah. It's mountain time, man. Come on. Haha! Come on! Hahaha!

Chuck LaFLange (43:15.586)
You know what, it's because of living in Calgary for so long, I have two hours difference, right? Yeah, so, yeah, right, yeah. Pull it together, pull it together, hoarder. Pull it together, all right. Anyway, so yeah, that's coming up. So let's get into the mail back here. And I got a couple of good questions for you. I was one I was actually really excited to ask you, so yeah. Okay, Ellen in, or Ellen.

in Fanny Bay, BC, I should say. Okay, Alan in Fanny Bay, BC says, how do you manage your own self-care given the emotionally intense nature of your work? Now we've talked about this a few times in the past, but let's get into it, you know.

RBK Kaleidoscope (43:51.543)
Oh.

Yeah, no, it's actually a really interesting question. And my answer, and I think I think we've had something like this before, because I answered, I get fat is what I do. Well, I'll tell you what, like since I started to do like the deeper work, I that was, I don't know how many years, probably in concert with like me getting old and like whatever.

Chuck LaFLange (44:02.986)
We have.

Chuck LaFLange (44:06.654)
Okay. That's not how you've answered in the past. So let's hear that one. Unpack that one a little bit, my friend.

RBK Kaleidoscope (44:22.128)
It was like 37, 38, and that's when I started. I went from like 160 to eventually I was up to 232 at one time. So that the nagging started then. So a lot of like neurotic stuff started happening outside of awareness that could have been coincidental, but that is the deficit side. The asset side to that is like I love the power of oxygen. You know, you know, I can't say it enough.

Oxygen is what reduces cortisol in our blood so that we can access. Cortisol is a thing that comes along. It's a hormone and it comes into our brain. It's a stress hormone. And when we're stressed or fight or flight response, it comes in and shuts all these doors to our cerebral cortex, all these different parts of our brain that we need to use to be rational, logical, and all that stuff. And so oxygen is the thing that reduces cortisol. They don't hold the same space at the same time.

Kind of like resentment and compassion don't hold the same space at the same time. You know what I mean? So, yeah, so I love the idea of breath. Then, I mean, I do different meditations. I also like to jam as a form of meditation. But so I'll just go off like the standard stuff, OK? Sleep hygiene becomes essential. The 8-8-8 balance, which I've never been able to achieve in my life,

Chuck LaFLange (45:45.538)
That sounds made up.

RBK Kaleidoscope (45:48.243)
It is a bit of a poker-oo. Yeah, I think you have to find it by going through a wardrobe And traveling on a fucking furry dragon, but anyway

Chuck LaFLange (45:50.604)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (45:57.275)
Yeah. And I've heard some conflicting stuff about that anyway, right, do you really need eight hours of sleep, right? No. No, do you really need eight hours of sleep? Evolutionarily speaking, when would we have slept for eight hours in a row before we were in cities and towns and villages, right? Like it never would have happened. You'd been worried about a lion eating you, you know what I mean, right? So like, you know.

RBK Kaleidoscope (46:00.816)
What, Narnia? Oh, oh, hahahaha!

RBK Kaleidoscope (46:16.862)
Bye.

RBK Kaleidoscope (46:21.052)
Well, at one point in the timeline of man, the life expectancy was like 27 years old. So, plumbing actually has a lot to do with it. But anyways, yeah, honestly, massive, massive jump in life expectancy since plumbing. So, self-care, diet.

Chuck LaFLange (46:27.21)
Well, that might have something to do with it too, right? Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (46:35.646)
I know it does. I know I totally make all the correlation like instantly, right? But yeah, right. Romans.

RBK Kaleidoscope (46:46.22)
Exercise eight needs. Yeah, I'm gonna say it eight sleep eight leisure eight work Ridiculous, but I think it also is like Anyways, I'm not gonna get into that That's that is it's a good thing to look at if you want to like try to set some kind of structure to your day and then I Think regiments are really important. I believe that structure and consistency create safety. So safety within ourselves is to do, you know, like

Chuck LaFLange (47:03.628)
Yep.

RBK Kaleidoscope (47:16.044)
every Saturday morning I used to go hit a bucket of balls at seven in the morning because it made me feel good about myself not still being up, for example, on a Saturday morning.

Chuck LaFLange (47:26.218)
Mm-hmm. Ha ha ha, true story. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And for myself now, it's 7 a.m., it's funny you say that time, the pool, unless you and I are recording early and then I go out and get it done early. But I'll tell you, man, since I started doing it, and it doesn't matter, I can be like mid-edit, seven o'clock, boom, I'm out the door and I'm down to the pool, right? Doesn't matter, and it's like, it feels so good when I'm walking away from that work, or you know what I mean, like to go do that for myself, you know, right? Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope (47:38.068)
Structure.

RBK Kaleidoscope (47:51.24)
I do. That's what I mean. The importance of consistency and structure in self-care is absolutely essential, in my opinion. And then, I think, because it is an emotionally intense job that I have, it's important to spend time with my emotions as an ally and to recognize my emotions as an ally and as a part of the comprehensive being.

Chuck LaFLange (47:59.167)
Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope (48:20.176)
That is me. And so like, and so like my emotions, it's important. Like for me, I want to understand that they've all got a job to do. They all have value. There's no good and bad emotions. They just are. And so how do I be with them? How do I get learn how to get stay out of their way? Or how can I enhance their process? I mean, when I'm in a state of joy, I want to be with that. When I'm in a state of despair, I want to kind of be letting it do its job while I sit on the couch and watch a romcom, you know.

let it go through. You know what I mean? Eating deep fried pickles. Yeah. So, and then, I mean, you know, those are kind of the basics. But then, then I like to, I like to look at, I like to look at the world in different lenses. I like to do lens shifting as a practice. And so the lens of beauty, the lens of joy, the lens of, what's the word I'm looking for? Passion or fire, you know, and like...

Chuck LaFLange (48:49.942)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (48:54.071)
Mm-hmm.

Chuck LaFLange (49:08.927)
Okay.

RBK Kaleidoscope (49:19.716)
And so, and then with that, I want to go into like, maybe I picked, for example, today, I took a minute and I opened this book up and started reading it. I've read this book 600 million times in my life, but I can't get enough because it's a book that inspires me over and over and over. That's Victor Franco. So yeah, and then, you know, value, so a value assessment is a way of self care. So returning myself to who I am, my identity. And then I look at...

Chuck LaFLange (49:34.486)
Yes.

RBK Kaleidoscope (49:49.252)
I want to be constantly looking at the things. Because we all spend so much time thinking about how shitty we are at something, how we didn't do something good enough. I balance that by trying to spend some time in achievement or successes or things that I've been happy with. Yeah, comprehensive answer for you there, Ellen.

Chuck LaFLange (49:57.308)
Yep.

Chuck LaFLange (50:08.406)
Fair enough, eh? Fair enough. All right, all right.

Yeah, yes. All right. Thank you, Ellen, for that. That was a really great question. I think it's probably going to come up a few more times before we're done this whole thing that we're doing. But it's never not valid. Right. So Blake in Kenosha, Wisconsin, says, what advice would you give to someone who is considering pursuing a career in counseling?

Chuck LaFLange (50:35.201)
I'm really excited to hear you answer this one for some reason. Of all the great questions that come in, this was like really got my attention. So thank you Blake for that.

RBK Kaleidoscope (50:42.832)
What advice would I give?

RBK Kaleidoscope (50:49.644)
Know what you're... do your research. Know what you're getting into. Understand that there is a cost. That, you know, there's a lot of sacrifice really in the field. For example, if I go into a room, I don't know, a restaurant with my family...

and I have a client or a former client there, I'm no longer dad. I'm now counselor. So I lose all of my human rights. And I now have to carry myself as a counselor within that space. I cannot make contact with that individual. I cannot introduce myself or anything like that. Maybe they're there with their family and I'd like to meet them. Well, tough luck. Now, if they wanna come up to me and say hi to me, that's fine, but now I can't disclose, well, I can't say who I am.

Chuck LaFLange (51:23.468)
Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Chuck LaFLange (51:44.054)
But even then there's a certain barrier, like a boundary that yeah, right? Yeah, yeah, of course, right? You know?

RBK Kaleidoscope (51:47.664)
Yeah, you know, so ask yourself the question, do you want to work in an industry that death is normalized? Which is something I...

Chuck LaFLange (51:57.618)
And typically does not pay well either, right? So I think, yeah, yes it did, yes, yeah. Death is normalized, yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope (52:00.9)
Yeah, hold on a second though, did you hear what I just said?

I don't want to gloss over that because that is one of the ones that I did not foresee at all. And there's something about... What's the... There's just the Steve Earl song. There's something about living in pain that makes your heart hard that way. And so you're constantly living with pain. Maybe it's not yours, but to be good, you got to go there. You have to be with...

Chuck LaFLange (52:12.61)
Fair enough, eh?

Chuck LaFLange (52:31.87)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope (52:34.268)
these individuals. And then, of course, with what you said, like, I don't know, no, it's all like, one of the things is that everybody that goes into counseling, you can ask them why, and you're gonna get a sad story.

Chuck LaFLange (52:49.034)
Yeah, yeah, right.

RBK Kaleidoscope (52:50.044)
You know what I mean? Like nobody goes into this. They don't, like you said, they don't go into this for the bucks. You know, and there are, you know, if you're a psychiatrist, you can make some big bucks, I guess. I mean, that's never, you know, if you want to go to go get an MBA. Exactly. And so, and then, you know, if you decide ultimately that's good with you, then I would say find your modality, find what resonates with you.

Chuck LaFLange (52:55.158)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (53:03.214)
There's a million things you can do with a lot less education to make that kind of money, right? You do that because you care, right?

RBK Kaleidoscope (53:19.532)
and do everything you can to embody that, learn it, read about it, delve into it. And for me, it was about being as getting as much knowledge as possible so that I can be most effective through that modality. The modalities that I work out of are very in congruency with my human spirit, who I am as a human being. So the phenomenology and existentialism, it really fits with my personal philosophies in the way that I am.

It also is, there are two modalities that work together that can really be effective for just about any problem that there is out there because it's about being human and it's about consciousness. And so, you know, if you're a CBT person, be a CBT person. If you're a DBT person, be one. I mean, you know, like, and I use all those modalities in my practice, but I don't identify, I don't, never identify as a CBT person, although I do use some of the techniques.

But for me, my personal philosophy is in contrast to the basic CBT philosophy. So yeah, knowledge is power. I would say just delve into, if that's what you want to do, be sure before you commit. And that's why I didn't continue my education and counseling. I went a different route because ultimately I want to change social systems in the way that society...

Chuck LaFLange (54:19.598)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (54:33.538)
Fair enough.

RBK Kaleidoscope (54:45.832)
create stigma and uses shame to control individuals and the way they think and act. And so, I doing one-on-one sessions isn't going to do that. And so now my counseling practice is more of a love hobby than it is a vocation.

Chuck LaFLange (55:05.806)
Gotcha, gotcha, all right. So we're just gonna have the two today for lack of time.

RBK Kaleidoscope (55:07.888)
Yeah, long answer. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, sorry. Those two questions were, I don't know how to answer those in a couple sentences. They're very good questions.

Chuck LaFLange (55:17.154)
They were good. They were good questions. They were good answers. Well, you knew how to answer them. You answered quite well, right? So yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope (55:22.232)
And I realized that my actual last one was a little bit deficit based. But those are things like, because we know you want to help people. You know, that's why people go into counseling. For me, it was, I wanted to learn, take this history that I have that the optics looks awful and I could never do anything with that. And I ended up turning it into being able to help people in a way that a lot of people don't understand, you know, because of my life experience. So it's not a book thing.

Chuck LaFLange (55:26.518)
But it's reality, right?

Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (55:48.043)
Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (55:51.474)
I hear you. 100% I hear you. Yeah, right. So yeah. All right. Don't be sorry, bitch. We better. Okay. I just love saying that every time I hear sorry. Anyway, listen, it's a it's time for my favorite part of the show. That is the Daily Gratitudes. Good thing. What you got for us today, Ryan?

RBK Kaleidoscope (55:52.496)
Yeah. So I'll get out of the way of the end here. Sorry.

RBK Kaleidoscope (56:17.608)
Something pretty magical about family, closeness, and love.

You know, I'm grateful for people's ability to create safety to allow me to be me and feel okay in that. You know, and that seems to happen. It doesn't happen a lot, but the people that do, and I speak to my family because there's certainly, there's nobody in this planet that I feel like that, compared to Marina and obviously the kids.

But I do have some close friends that are in that realm. And it's just such a special, special thing to have people in your life that allow you the space to not have to put on a mask. It's amazing, actually. And a breath of fresh air, because it's exhausting changing masks and having to create them and remember who's what. I personally, where I'm at, 45 years old.

Chuck LaFLange (57:10.478)
Right? Yeah, it is. Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope (57:24.132)
Not many masks left because I really don't give a shit. And I don't have the energy. You know what I mean? Yeah, so... And that's the only one I'm going to do today. It's a deeper one or a long-winded one, but yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (57:28.928)
Right, right, absolutely. I do, I do.

Chuck LaFLange (57:37.366)
Yeah, it is. For myself, actually, if you're on the Facebook page and the new Facebook group, did you join the new Facebook group? The Ash's Toffs Group? Mine, me too, yeah. I'll send you an invite if I haven't. Well, I know I did, but it's rising from the ashes. Ash's Toffs and rising from the ashes, it's called, right? It's an open group, so it's a public group, so anybody can join, post, whatever, instead of not to put a bunch of rules on it, and it'll stay that way until such time as.

RBK Kaleidoscope (57:46.427)
I hope so.

RBK Kaleidoscope (57:58.861)
Okay.

RBK Kaleidoscope (58:07.156)
So you have to put some rules on it. It's like I won't micromanage you until you need micromanaging. Yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (58:07.758)
There's a need to change that, right? You never know. Right, right? So I've started doing daily gratitudes inside there, right? Which I think I have to stick to. I committed to it once before and I let it fall off and it bothers me every time I think about it. So best way to handle that is to get back on track with it, right? So, right? No sticking to my daily gratitudes rather than, you know, preaching at everybody else.

RBK Kaleidoscope (58:19.411)
Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope (58:31.1)
Back on the horse, yeah. What was the last part of it? Ashes of the Awesome What?

Chuck LaFLange (58:37.35)
Ash is awesome, rising from the ashes. And it's got that orange phoenix as a thing there. If you, yeah, so definitely worth it. And actually another group I'll mention right now is the Trap House Testimonies Community Group. She is awesome, Chantel is, you know, I love Chantel, she's incredible. We've had some great debates with people and I've crushed a few, not gonna lie. I've crushed a couple people, you know, some interesting things there,

RBK Kaleidoscope (58:44.946)
Okay.

RBK Kaleidoscope (59:07.38)
I know the feeling.

Chuck LaFLange (59:09.574)
And I also, I created another group randomly the other day, which is my second gratitude, is the Happy Bananas. So, and I don't know if you saw that or not, Happy Bananas group. It's, no, I'll, so I don't know if I've explained, do you know what Happy Bananas means yet? Have I explained this to you? No? No, okay. Yeah, yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope (59:19.673)
No, I didn't, but...

RBK Kaleidoscope (59:26.628)
No, but I will say it. I just want to say that one of my fantasy football teams is called the Banana Tuggers.

Chuck LaFLange (59:37.208)
I think you just made happy bananas dirty. I think that just happened. Anyway.

RBK Kaleidoscope (59:40.176)
And I will say, I stole that name from Matt Brown, if you're listening. Thanks for the name. The BTs.

Chuck LaFLange (59:46.707)
Okay, okay. So, happy bananas. When I first got here to Thailand, I was talking to Attica and Lisa about the fruit here. I said, like, the bananas are like dessert. Like, it's totally different than back home, right? And because they're just sweet and because they're ripe when they're picked, and like, it's a totally different thing, right? They're so good. And Attica, who's from Indonesia, says, yeah, here the bananas are sad. Meaning in Canada, they're sad bananas.

RBK Kaleidoscope (01:00:13.204)
Sup Janice?

Chuck LaFLange (01:00:14.514)
inferring that here they're happy bananas. So now, usually at like 5, 30, six o'clock in the morning, I'm creeping around this huge property where there's more statues. Like, I still don't know where they all are. They keep popping out at me. There's statues, and I'm placing these bananas on the statues in different ways. And I was sending it to the group chat with just the three of us, and then I added Angie Hamilton from last week's Weekend Rambleto it, and I was like, you know what, why am I just like...

RBK Kaleidoscope (01:00:32.257)
I'm gonna follow that.

Chuck LaFLange (01:00:41.93)
Why not just do something stupid and random for people to giggle at once a day? And with the hopes that eventually people start submitting their own happy banana kind of things or whatever. But I've got some just ridiculous, some of them are just stupid, some of them are ridiculous, but I, every day, I upload at least one picture of happy bananas. Yeah, yeah, right. We're all doing some serious shit, we're all immersed in some really intense stuff. And if you can just laugh at something stupid and random once a day, just because.

RBK Kaleidoscope (01:01:00.684)
Interesting.

RBK Kaleidoscope (01:01:06.333)
Yeah, yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (01:01:11.434)
your life's gonna be a little bit better, right? Yep. Of course I will, absolutely, yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope (01:01:11.484)
Hey, can you put one up there for me? I want you to Google Johnny Chimpo and put a Johnny Chimpo picture up on the have you been had as page.

Chuck LaFLange (01:01:18.875)
Okay, Johnny Chimpo, yeah.

Chuck LaFLange (01:01:24.194)
Johnny Chimpo, now you're looked at up right now. Johnny Chimpo.

RBK Kaleidoscope (01:01:28.52)
It's from, uh, it's from, uh, Super Troopers.

Chuck LaFLange (01:01:32.13)
Johnny Chimpo, super troopers. Oh, okay, yeah. Oh yeah, he's going up for sure. That's almost too suggestive, but not quite too suggestive. So he's going on. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope (01:01:37.172)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

RBK Kaleidoscope (01:01:44.019)
Oh, there's one there that the one that I have in the cover of my fantasy football team is very suggestive.

Chuck LaFLange (01:01:50.482)
Yeah, yeah, it's definitely going up for sure, for sure. So yeah, you have to check it out. And it's just like once a day, just some stupid thing, right? I got my Spider-Man Bluetooth speaker. He's got a banana peel on wearing as a wig, you know, that was like a 345 in the morning thing, because ADHD. But anyway, yeah, so. I'll send it to you. Yeah, yeah. It's got a.

RBK Kaleidoscope (01:01:53.199)
Thank you.

RBK Kaleidoscope (01:01:58.481)
Happy bananas, it's cool.

RBK Kaleidoscope (01:02:02.972)
Yeah.

RBK Kaleidoscope (01:02:08.549)
Well, so much for sleep hygiene, eh?

RBK Kaleidoscope (01:02:15.716)
Happy Bananas. It's a band.

Chuck LaFLange (01:02:19.406)
Oh, who knew, right? Yeah, I did not know that.

RBK Kaleidoscope (01:02:22.232)
Oh, join. There's join. Okay, joined. Yeah. I joined both of those that you talked about.

Chuck LaFLange (01:02:26.058)
Oh, you found it? Okay, there you go. There you go. Right. Yeah. So All right. Oh, there's my notification that you joined just like that. So anyway, Hey, listen, I'm also grateful to each and every single person that continues to watch, listen and support in any which way. You guys. This has been an amazing journey that I'm on and continue to go and like we're just getting started. So Like comment share down there.

do the things that you know to do. We really do appreciate every single time. Smash the subscribe button. Anytime you do any one of these things, you're getting me a little bit closer to living my best life. My best life is to continue making a humble living, spreading the message, the message is this. If you're an active addiction right now, today could be the day, today could be the day that you start a lifelong journey. Reach out to a friend, reach out to a family member, call them to detox, go to a meeting. I don't really care.

Do whatever you got to do to get that journey started, because it is so much better than the alternative. And if you have a loved one who's suffering addiction right now, just taking the time to listen to our conversation, you just take one more minute out of your day and text that person, let them know they're loved. Use the words.

RBK Kaleidoscope (01:03:38.396)
you are loved.

Chuck LaFLange (01:03:40.47)
that little glimmer of hope just might be the thing that brings them back.

Boom.